Segment 30 - The Formula for Pricing and Q&A
there's a whole lot that goes into pricing, right, and none of it's really fun. But it's a necessity to running a business. So, like you mentioned earlier, it is more than just cost of goods. It's the cost of your time. And talent is the cost of doing business on. That should be what you charge. So you know, again and go back to what you should charge, which is what I charged versus would somebody in New York City charges all of these items are going to very and cost, which is going to make you're charged a different thing. You know, you may have a studio. Well, then you're probably gonna need charge a little bit more because you've got to pay for that studio. You've got to pay for the space. You've got to pay for the props. You've gotta pay for the you know, all the stuff that comes along with it, electric and everything. So you were cost of doing a business is more than my cost of doing a business. You know, your time and talent because you just started maybe a little less than someb...
ody that's been doing it for 10 years. because maybe their time and talent is is more now because they have more experience and they have more education. And they have, You know, this, that the other. So all of this stuff should be considered when you're coming up with a price, which is why it's hard to say to you multiply it. Times three. There's no one size fits all. So that's a hard thing to say, because I don't know everything that goes into it. And then I go back to the fact that we all are doing it for different reasons. We all you know, everything is relative to who we are. $10 to me might be a lot of money and $50 so you might be a lot of money. I mean to me, like it's all relative and you need to think about the why, and you need to add up all your you know, all your email times, all your phone calls, all your drive time, all your editing time like does it take you five minutes for image? It may take me to in two minutes for image it make take somebody else 10. I mean I mean like so that is different. Um, and so you need to consider that, um, obviously the cost of photo shop in your website and business cards. And I mean, why take it? Let's just start yelling out things that costs for businesses. And you all, you know, maybe writing down What are some things that I haven't even mentioned? Insurance insurance? Yup. Portland. Okay, park so few shooting a park. So if you shoot a park, you have to have a pass. How much is it for me? Cause I live in Beaverton, not Portland. It's $260 a year. Okay, so there again, your cost of doing business is different. And whoever lives in Portland, right? Because you just said it costs you different than them. That's something to write down. You got to know that. What are some other things? Obviously, camera lenses, your bag, your reflector, those air, easy things. But even things that you don't think about gas mileage, whether you do gas mileage, but in mind, I have to put the cost of a baby sitter a baby sitter. Yeah, because you got a bunch out care? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because you cannot do your your business without child care, right? Yeah, absolutely. Does your accountant let you write it off? It's my dad who happens to also be the baby sitio. Oh, good. Hey, there's a difference in you than somebody else is gonna go pay an accountant because your dad's unaccounted. Yeah, you know, maybe your cost of doing business a little bit different than what else is right. But I have found that I did try to do shoes with my Children. Oh, my gosh. Yes, on my son. He's really good at the reflector. But if it's tired Oh, man is terrible. They'll start flashing the reflector in the client's eyes on blinding them. Don't say like, weird things like, did they pay it, or how much did they pay? So I have to get a baby sitter, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Does anybody have a studio? You did. You okay? So those air calls for you guys? What? I don't have a studio. May. I can kind of imagine what the call stuff, but maybe say some of those. Um, my rent is 6 50 and then I pay electricity and then Internet, right? You know, things like that you have fallen in there, are you? Just use yourself. I just use my cell phone. But then that's an added cost monthly just for myself. Yeah. And then do you constantly feel like, because you have a studio, you have to buy new props? Um, I stopped doing that, but I do feel like I have to constantly, like, keep my wall collections and stuff updated and changing it out more often than keeping it fresh. And then just the sheer cost of of setting the studio was I was a lot of money. Like we bought furniture, right? Repainted everything. And you have a computer at your studio Yet when it whole No, I separated my home in my work life. Well, I did, too, just recently, because my home one crashed on. My husband unplugged my hard drive. Honey, don't mad about it. Yes. Oh, yes. There's all different expenses that I don't I don't have because I don't have furniture. And I didn't do. I did for my ordering session room by a piece of furniture that was a display piece that I could put the television old and it's a cabinet, So I've got all my packaging and stuff in there, and that is the only thing I use. It force it makes your tax purposes. You're not co mingling or whatever they call it. Don't last me because I'm not an accountant. My husband is an accountant. I mean, not he's not an accounting, his financial guy, but he knows numbers like he is just like spreadsheet genius. And I don't know how we ever got together because I'm like, I don't want to talk about Don't talk to me about numbers. Don't tell me. Don't give me an amount I don't want No, you just do your spreadsheet stuff. I'll do my creative stuff, right? But yeah, so it's things like that. So I mean, there's so much involved in running a business. I think Ken and I talked about this earlier. I think a lot of people your clients probably think all you do is click in your miraculously providing all this stuff. But there's a lot that goes into running a business, and when it becomes a business and not a hobby, then you've got to consider all these things your accountant, your insurance, your you know, your graphic designer if you're rebranding, that's the cost of doing business. All your packaging is a cost of doing business. Yeah, education, education, the travel and the workshops. Absolutely. And I'm a big fan of education. No matter where you are in this business, I think you can always learn. So I think you should have education budget every year and go somewhere or do something online or watch Korean live or whatever you need to dio to continually educate yourself. And that is a cost of doing business. That is what sets you apart from somebody else because maybe they haven't gone to, you know, had the training that you've had or whatever. So yeah, absolutely on. Then just don't forget your time and your talent, which is an easy thing to forget, because it's not tangible. You didn't have to write a check for it and then get paid back forward or whatever. But you did spend time. You've spent time, you know, with your graphic artist trying to come up with why you wanted this branding. You've spent time talking to clients, you know. It doesn't always have to be specific client stuff. There's a lot of stuff you spent time your education Wherever you win, you guys spent time away from your home. Here s O the travel the you know your gas to get here, your hotel or your food or whatever. Why you're here. Doing something for your business is a business expense and needs to be considered when it comes to pricing. So, yeah, absolutely. Do we have any? We have so many questions. This'll is a tough one. But how do you go about figuring out what your time is worth? Yeah, Like if you're crunching all these numbers, right? Well, I mean, you definitely need right member. No, I mean, the first thing you do is need to write down how much time, you know, watch yourself and see, OK, it takes me five minutes per image or it takes me 30 minutes to get to the post office or whatever. You know, I mean, like, you can't really set a number for your time. I think, until you know exactly how much time your spending on things, so you know, it's probably a good idea to make a list of all the things that you do that take time and figure out you can measure a number off of that. So that is probably the first step. Because just blatantly saying why, I think I maybe spent in and it served this, that the other is, um you know, social Media time. I mean, that's a job in and of itself. So it takes time, and that is time. And you're more. I mean, that is marketing eso you know, s so that would be the first thing is try to figure it out. And then, you know, from there, you've gotta consider all your other aspects as well and then come up with a number. So, like I say, I think it is a process of where you are in the business. Um, and what you're willing toe work for, You know? I mean, are you willing to work for $20 an hour? Ask yourself that I'm not, Are you? I mean, you know, you might be, and that's fine. Ask yourself if $ an hour might seem a little bit more worth your time. Maybe Then you go up to $100 an hour, you know, But no, it helps to pick that number based on the actual number of time. So I think that's your first step. That's great. Thank you. All right, this is a question from Andre Brown. Photography in terms of we didn't We didn't talk yet about your actual pricing of those colorize, right? But the question is also do you think having a huge jump in pricing between packages is a problem? So whatever the number is, how do you gauge how toe put the helmet? Yeah, price differential should be is $300 between each package? A good number, right? What do you How would you go about that? Well, again, I wouldn't say a set number because, you know, it's hard to say, Yep, every package to be $300 apart. You know, that's not it's not a one size fits all thing, you know, mind, go from the bottom in the middle, or maybe a little closer. And then there is a bigger jump to the top. But it's not an astronomical jump because, you know, it's just I don't want to scare anybody often. Nobody ever by that. So, you know, that would be my That would probably be My suggestion is maybe not as big of a jump between the bottom two. Maybe a little bit bigger jump there. But as far as I can't tell him or her $200 is your golden answer because not me entertain. You need to make sure that each of the packages that fit the value perceived so that the client can understand why it jumped in price. I think that's an important thing to consider. Yeah, people to talk to that. Exactly. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, exactly. Do you have a lot of people ask you why it's priced at that number? You know, the only time I really ever have people asked me was when I sold just the CD. And why was the CD so much? Okay, um, then we talk about the Brady Bunch. Well, right. Yeah, exactly. And that's how are explained it that that would be the only time I can say I have ever really had someone say, Well, why is it that much? The collections didn't really ask because I guess I'm guessing psychologically, there's enough things in there that that it makes sense. Whereas I think customers think of when they think of a CD. I think they truly are thinking of that $2 CD, and so it's a little harder for them to understand why you're charging $1000 or whatever you're charging for it because they're just getting this little $ CTO in their mind. That's what they're thinking. So I think that's where questions come in about. Well, why is it that much? And then you start to say, Well, you know what? There's 50 images on there, you know, that works out to be Don't make me do math, but it works out to be whatever it works out. There you go. And that's why. And then you start explaining that you can print on 500 times or whatever, and so they start to understand that it's not that $2 CD, but it's the everything that's on that CD and all your work and all your editing and all your talent and copyright, if you will. I mean you, you're the photographer, you own those images, they're yours, and you're giving them the CD so that they can print them and share them. But not truly, you still own the copyright of that. So there's some monetary value in that you know the main. So that's probably the only time I've ever had somebody question a price on and some people just, you know, no, not going to do it. Okay, fine. I mean, you know, yeah. Not gonna force you exactly, but also not going get him. Dio, do you include some kind of copyright letter for the people who do purchase digital images as part of with it? Yes. So earlier I mentioned in the middle package They just get that cardboard thing, and it's I wish I brought one that is re binder dot com is the name of the company. Actually, it's changed. I think the new name is guided products, but I think if you Google re binder, it's still going to come up anyway. It's just this little square five by five looking square thing that opens up on one side is a folder for the kind of like the folder already showed all but in a tiny little form. So the CD is stuck in one side and a five by five card that you can get printed in any loud has the print release on one side that I sign and date and say so and so has permission to print so that if they go to J N D. Which is in my hometown and for some reason they ask not always, do they? But if they do, they can say yep, got permission to print it. And then on the other side, it gives them tips about, um, you know what? They can use it for my suggestion to go to J and E if they want somewhere local. How I suggest they store, um on the other side. And it's just a card that says that. And so I would put that in that that folder. But then I would also give it to them if they're ordering that top package that comes with that image box. Yeah, and having that printed up and ordering those and just having them, that's just like your packaging having bags and and ribbon and cards. And yeah, all of that stuff is cost a business number one, but also having it on file, you know, in your home. Like I say, I had that cabinet. All of that stuff is in there, So when I get in order ready, I go and pick and put in a package, and it's all done and I have that. So I'm not like ordering constantly packaging and cards and things like that. Can you go through that just again? Or a little bit more? In terms of that process? Do you have all the products shipped to your home? And then do people come and pick them up? What do you do from a branding perspective in terms of how you put it all together? Yeah. So, yes, they do come to my home and package them at that point personally, just because, I mean, I know there's there's there's labs out there that do boutique packaging, and I think that's great, but it just never really was in my colors or whatever, and I kind of wanted the personal touch. I love all that stuff, um, stickers and and bags and tissue paper and oh my gosh, my I told you, has this yesterday, but I have custom wrapping paper that I absolutely love with Malaga that I got from spoon flour dot com. In case anybody wants custom wrapping favor, they also make custom wallpaper, which I think is fabulous, and I'm going to order some with Melo, go to go right behind the desk, which would be super cold anyway. But so, yes, a package all up, Um, put the ribbon on their put the sticker on there. And then typically, I will say, um, I'm out and about today, I'm just gonna drop it off. Or if you're out and about and you want to pick it up, come on by. So it's kind of a combination. Um, I like for them to either pick it up for me, take it to him, because again, I can see them. And I'm handing them their product, and I they will typically take that box right out and start opening it. And it looks so I like that personal touch. It goes along with that relationship. So, um, again, whether I'm actually delivering it or they're picking it up from my house, I am seeing them. And that's what I don't I don't like to ship it. It's impersonal, right? Exactly. It's part of your experience, right? Part of who you are. You're exactly a zoo. My husband would say, I drive everywhere in my car, has a ton of miles on it. So why not get driving? Deliver a product? Exactly. Exactly. So Okay, so we've talked about the packages that you have. Then what are some of the best selling all a cart items that you carry and just Teoh just to clarify for everybody out there? Would you sell? Do you sell more images on a disk at all the cart? Theun What is in those custom pack right yet? And that's an important question. I would say the biggest ala cart item that somebody might would get on top of a collection is graduation announcements. Hands down! I don't have those in. You know, that's not a choice. That is, hands down the thing that they may add on. And I'm okay with that. Sometimes in the in the middle or the top package, because the double side of wallets don't come in those packages, they would add battle eso those. There are two things that get it at it on. And then yes, and inevitably, sometimes you will have somebody say, Well, what if I just want one digital image? Well, you know what? That's kind of a pain for me to have to go and burn a CD of one image, so I'm gonna price that a little bit more. It's more value for you. I'm not going to tell them that just talking to you about that. But to them, I say, Well, it's more valuable for you to buy the entire CD. Um, they're cheaper if you were to divide it out their cheaper per image. When I do the entire digital collection, if you want to buy one, it's gonna be a lot Mauritz gonna be, Ah, $100. Um, so there is like, Oh, I'm not paying $100 for one And then that will get them to say, Well, then maybe I'll get the middle collection. At least I could get 10 because I'm not going to spend $ per imager. Whatever you were number. Maybe man used to be 50 and then I kind of got tired of people buying just 1 $50. That didn't seem like a big deal for them, so they would buy one, and I was just like, OK, I need to up it now if they want to order the middle collection that they want 12 images because they bought the collection. I'm not going to charge him 100 for those two. I might discount it a little bit, and usually that's not the case. That doesn't happen. But I would personally say Okay, well, for two extra ones, you can have that for 100 extra dollars because you did about that collection. Another reward I can give them instead of making them pay $200 for it. So But if they are going to buy one image, they're gonna pay for that one image. So usually, if you explain it to them that it's admit that are valued about more, then usually really gets them to go towards a different route. Absolutely. Any more questions? You got the graduation announcement kind of part of your in person sales. Like, Do you create it there? Yeah. Usually I will ask the girl's own the shoot, or I will know through their questionnaire, graduation announcements or something. Because I will tell you they there they are becoming more popular. The traditional way of doing it in my area is just to order the ones with school Crist and it just says whatever. Um, so I asked So hey, you have you have you thought about? And we talk about this on the session. Have you thought about graduation announcements like, are you gonna do something like a traditional route or you're gonna want some photos on it? Oh, I think I want some photos on it. And I'm like, OK, well, do you have any colors that you lied? Do you have any patterns? Are you a geometric person? In fact, I asked Kendra earlier because I wanted to know what she wanted on the back of her box issue. Geometric person. Is she a cute See pope? It a strike person? Like what kinds of kinds of things patterns do you like? What kinds of colors do you like? And then I look, I also have an invitation. Backgrounds. You have to understand that, um, I go home and then design something for them and then stick it in that slide show if it's something they have expressed interest in, and I usually do about three different designs, which seems to be enough. And they pick one from that. So sometimes I order templates. Oh, snap boutique has amazing templates. And maybe you talk to the girl and figure out like what she likes. And then you think, OK, I've got a no snap boutique template that has florals on it. She mentioned she liked florals. So I'm going to do that. And then you can change out the colors depending on what she had owned. Put sample photos in there cause it makes a bigger impact. But then say to them when they're looking at Okay, so which invitation do you like best? And they say one. Okay, let's talk about the pictures you like. Do you like these colors? I can always change the colors, but I picked these colors based on your outfit. So just so you know, and that Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, that usually will really get them to go that route. And, like I say more and more, I'm starting to see that people do want the graduation announcement that I offer as opposed to those, um, school ones. And then it goes back to educate educating them. There's a page in the welcome guy that shows that graduation. I mean, you know, products are in there and there's a patient talks about graduation announcement. So if they're booking May, and then they're going into that, your book photo. And maybe that company offers those plane or whatever. Then they know. I remember in the welcome guy. I don't need that. And so because I have in the past had people that had already spent money on the traditional ones and they were like, darn it, I wish I had known did it also again educating them. But given them if it's not too much time on your part, it makes a bigger impact of you. If you go ahead and talk to him about it, let him know it's possibility, and then give them that extra customer service and making them feel like you pick those specifically for them. Yeah, Can you tell us again the name of the wrapping paper website A lot of bugs are asking about. Like as in you eat with a spoon flour dot com. Awesome. And it's amazing, and I think that I think the wallpapers removable. I don't think it's permanent. So you know that's fun, too. So could even be something used for a backdrop. If you have a studio because then you could change it out really quick. You could get you a piece of plywood or something and just put one on one time one on the other side and use that as a backdrop that the amazing thing do you. So I'd love to just summarize for people how you kind of that whole experience of the pricing. So you have a session fee and you have three different options. You have three different session options. Yes, right. And then So that's the first thing that people pay for their pay for that before they When they book. When they book it, they pay for it. Yep. I used to do it where they would bring a check to the session. It was just too much. You know, I don't want concentrate again. It goes back to the relationship. I won't concentrate on money. One concentrate of you and you having a good time. I want you to have to worry about Did you bring your mom's check or or whatever? I don't ever like to ask for money. I hate it The worst We all do. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, I remember You owe me money, right? And you feel like you know you feel like cowering down like, Oh, you remember that? You gotta pay me for that, right? Oh, Anyway, I hated it. So, booking, they pay for it. Yeah. And so then they come in for the ordering session fee. I'm sorry for the ordering session, and you've already provided them with their prices because you've given that to them previously. Yeah, and then you have three different collections, and then you have Allah cart as well that people can add on top of that. Exactly. Awesome. Yep.