Street Photography + Capturing Truth
that we love you. Hello and welcome to this episode of Creative Life TV and The Chase Travis Live show here on Creativelive. I'm Jace Jarvis, founder of Creative Live and longtime host The Show and your guide for the next 60 minutes as we sit down with a legend in the street photography field someone I am very, very excited to have on the show. But before I introduce him and his work, I would like to invite you to comment. This is a live, interactive broadcast, so whatever platform you're seeing this on, if you are at creativelive dot com slash tv, just click joined Chat in the upper right hand corner. John Facebook, YouTube Live instagram live. I do see your comments. Ah, and I'm happy to introduce some of the thoughts and ideas that you bring into this conversation, questions you have for the guest. In fact, it's my treat and one of the reasons we do these live so that you can help shape the course of the conversation. Um, the best experience where I see the comments the fastest is o...
ver creativelive dot com slash tv. But again, I do see your comments wherever they're coming in from. So, um, if you're inclined to shout out a high five or question, I would love to Ford that to our guest. And speaking of guests, it has, um, it's been an amazing handful of weeks. Um, for those seeking justice worldwide for racial inequality and my guest, his work has been thrust into the limelight. Um, as we all know, we all work very, very hard behind the scenes, and we often don't know when our work is going to rise to a completely new level and create change and awareness, whatever the goal is with the art that we all create. And Stephen John er, b, a k a. Steve Sweatpants is this renowned street photographer. He's also the co owner and co founder and director of ST Dreams magazine, with dual headquarters in Brooklyn and Vancouver. Urbi and Companies Transcontinental publication showcases upcoming photographers. Also crowd sources photos Instagram to create a physical and a digital scene full of create curated art of this skilled craft. The street photography Steve's born in Brooklyn, raised in Queens, and the majority of Herbie's photographic work is derived from the endless source of inspiration found on his home turf with some intriguing travelogues to round that is portfolio showing primarily in black and white. Urbi shoots appointment put Portrait's and gritty cityscapes. Got a masterful I have long been in the mire of his work, and his photos also showcase a crisp and stark contrast that makes the subjects come alive. And we see that, most recently in incredible places like G. Q and The New Yorker, specifically in response to the demonstrations for racial equality and the BLM movements worldwide. It gives me huge pleasure. Just got some tingles on the back of my neck here at our guest today. Steve Sweatpants is in the house Steve Walker Show. But I I don't know what to say. I was like, Is that all about me? Thank you for having me on is such a humongous honored to be on this platform? You know, I've been creativelive family for a couple of years now, so truly humbled to be here, especially with your alleged like yourself, Chase. So welcome to my uh yeah, it feels good to be ah, in your front room there, and you know, there's a ton of ground that I would like to cover today, and we're already the folks around the world that chime in and where they're where they're listening from. Ah, report back from that, um, all those folks worldwide here shortly in the meantime, just want to retrace not just our steps on the comment you made with creative Live. As you said, you've been in the family for a number of years. I remember fondly a, um ah, show featuring your work in our garage space and see out of the last time you were out there, um, taking a couple pictures with you and just being inspired by your work. And as I said in the intro, um, I think it's fair to look back on so many careers and see the work being put in. And, you know, whatever success has come to bear at any particular time seems to immediately pale in comparison when your work has been thrust into the limelight as yours is so timely, so moving. So, um, critical to discussions going on right now. And can you can you just open our conversation today with talking to us about what that moment has been this past? I would say four weeks, um that your images have been everywhere and in service of such a powerful and important time in our world's history. Uh, it's been it's just been a lot to download. It has been a lot of heavy weeks and a lot of long days. And, um, this is this really strong feeling in my gut that, you know, when all of this started first going down of how reminiscent of the stories that my parents were talking about in the seventies of them growing up in New York and then protesting about the same things that were protesting about today. And I really found that this is a really crucial time for me to project my emotions and ah, and really stand up and use my platform to bring a level of awareness in our level of strength to the situation. That's probably not seen in the media because of all the full spectrum of, you know, emotions and things that are happening, you know, with the protests and everything that's been involved in the last couple of weeks. So it was really important for me to tell the truth for my people and tell them until the truth for, like my mom and my dad and having something where, you know, I can show the world of what's actually going on and what it actually feels like and what I can convey in these moments in the streets of New York right now. So, like I said, it's been a lot of it. A lot to download has been really heavy, but at the same time, this is level of reassurance that I wasn't expecting toe have at the same time. So, yes, I've never experienced anything like this in my 33 in my 33 years of, you know, being here in New York. You know, uh, well, the world is, um, celebrating your work right now. We've got San Francisco, Miami Ah, Orlando, San Mateo, California turned from Denver. Ah, Philly more San Francisco. We gotta London. Gonna Paris in the house and 100 family. Yeah, yeah. Ah, And to say that your, um but their work has been, ah, quote you. I think not to misquote you, but I think you said a lot of long, hard days in the past couple of weeks. Um, go deep on that for us. Like what is that? What do you mean by that? Are you up early? Out, out. Documenting. Do you have a plan? Are you being flexible? I mean, what what? What has been a typical day? Or maybe create a deeper picture for us over the course of the past few weeks about where her times look like? Um, you know, there's, You know, my life is kind of crazy because not only in my photographer, but I'm also a director and co director and co founder, street drinks magazine. So there's a lot of things that I'm not only trying to balance with my photography life, but I'm also trying to, you know, move forth. The brand has no a black owned business with, you know, a Spanish in the Asian influence in the owners as well. To so you know, there's a lot of things that not not only trying to do individually, but I'm also trying to do brand wise and understanding, understanding how we can, you know, have a positive effect of the space as well to so they had to be very agile when it comes to me documenting protests need marching in protest. Me also trying to figure out ways to. I call it like a phase two of the different levels of how are we gonna have, you know, some actual, you know, systematic change of no working with the brands, like a work a lot with, say, costly. And I work a lot with nemesis costly and finding out how to incorporate these brands and other business models into our everyday lives So we can create these ecosystems of education that run deeper than not just the photos that were trying to take in the in the demonstrations that we're trying to do. So the photography part is that therapeutic and also the level of awareness, you know, part of my life that I'm trying to bring to the table. And and then I put all of my energy and all my love into those photos. And, you know, I treat my treat my instagram like like my stupid most. You know what I mean. So I'm very communal with like, you know, everyone who comes to my page because I want to, you know, make sure that they know that I'm as affected by the photos as well, too. And you know, when you get a chance to get published in, you know, The New Yorker and being born and raised in New York and like the New Yorker to me is like one of the milestones in my life that I have been wanting to achieve, you know, since I started shooting photos. So being able to be published by them and being on assignment with them is a huge deal. But that also comes with a level of, you know, a defensive tactics that I thought I had to take in that first week of, you know, of all of the eyeballs that just started to look at me and start employing. And there was a lot of different conversations that I was having, where I felt defensive about my work. And I know what the attention of my work in the first place, especially of everything that I've been through so and being able to, you know, download that information and understand where to move forward from. That was a really big deal for me. And then, from the next point on was trying to figure out how do I make effective change in a long term as well to buy, you know, talking to the Sony's and talking to these other brand companies that we can see if we can make some some actual systematic change. So the days have just been long. So if I get a chance to play a video game or two and I'm definitely thinking that, well, it certainly earned it. And I think that the work that you're putting in right now is something that those of us who are your fans and supporters and and also crafts your your your peers in the craft of photography. Um, I want you to keep going The stories that you've been telling, um, most recently as you highlighted in The New Yorker, um, so powerful. I'm wondering if you can tell us how that how that came about how those classic amazing photographs, um, not just the photographs, but, you know, break down for us how the assignment came to be, because obviously that's as you said, not just a huge milestone in your career, but as a ah, that publication so, so renowned and especially for photography, uh, and and saying the important and timely, poignant things. So how that happened? Um, so it all kind of started from the first day that I went out to the protests. I have to give a lot of credit. Teoh, One of my friends. Ah, he goes by black. So, Brahim, he was out actually the night before. I live in Bed Stuy. So he was out the night before at the Barclay Center, which is not too far from Bed Stuy. And he was on Instagram live in my really documenting a lot of the things that was happening. And I kept on asking him, you know, how long? How much longer is he going to stay out there? But the event, you know, he had to go home eventually. So the next day, I wanted to make sure that, you know, I hit the streets hard, and I had a really good chance to, you know, be out there to you know, when this was happening. Because at this point, you know their wishes. Um ah, lot of confusion and then the and you can't really rely on the news all the time to give you You know, the actual beat of what's happening. And I feel like photography is one of these things where not only do you have the photograph, the moments you actually have to be there to experience them, to understand what you want to photograph and document. So, um, the day that I went out to the city was on the 30th May 30th I believe, and I will never forget. I got off the train at 14th Street, and then I started to walk towards midtown, but I didn't see anybody. And I see nothing because we obviously still in the middle of a pandemic. So everything is still no, people are not outside. It's really know where the way no other way to put it. But I texted one of my friends to see where they were, and then you told me that they were actually in Washington Square Park. So, you know, you should head towards that way. So I was on 14th and Fifth Avenue. I took by that point, I was around 20th. I walked about 4th 4 to 5 blocks up maybe a little bit more. And then I started to head back towards ah towards 14th Street Union Square area. And then soon as I started, took that about face. I walked into legitimately 500 to 1000 people and the guy being led with, like this do wearing like a lucha libre mask with, you know, his fist up leading like this legion of people. And then you just hear them enchanting like no justice, no peace. Fuck those races as police and I like, I mean, this is the spot, you know, And then immediately, like, I started shooting photos and it started being documenting everything. And then we ended up being out there for, you know, at least like 5 to 6 hours. We walked over 10 miles on that day, Um, and, um bumped into a bunch of different photographers that they but at least like no bullshit, at least like 20 photographers that day and everybody was there to, you know, experience with what's happening. A document. What's happening? So the next day, um, I don't think I even slept that night, are pretty, pretty much pretty sure just edited photos all night and then so I can have everything ready for the morning because I really wanted to make sure I could start. Tell me these stories. The photo started really picking up a lot more steam than they usually dio. Um, so I started to check my d m to see what was going on. And then, um, it was, like, around four o'clock and I got a d m from somebody from the New Yorker saying like Hey, like, this is urgent. Can you actually call me? Give them a call? And they were saying, Hey, do you mind to be on assignment A six oclock and was like 4 30 I was like, I don't have my battery charged. Let me charge his battery for, like 30 minutes because, you know, my life was everyone. My room was messy, like everything was in shambles. Like my life. Everything was going crazy for me. So I charged my battery. You know, I smoke a little joint and then ran out to the city. And that's when I was on assignment for The New Yorker for the first time, and we went up to 86th Street. Um, and then I immediately walked into the same vibe. It was legions and legions of people, and the energy at these at these protests have been so overwhelming, overwhelmingly positive. And I've never seen anything in my life where I saw the signs for miles and miles to say that my life matters, you know? And then just to see, like everything we were speaking about previously, people were giving our border. There's people to give enough food. I've seen people from bodegas like, you know, they were shut down the bodega. But then they open up the, you know, open of the bodegas to give people like buckets of water and have them take out chips. And suddenly there it was is there is just such this feeling of community. And I'm even talking about now and still get the goose bumps just thinking about it, that I've never experienced anything like that in my life. So which is one of those feelings that you know, both those every time that I've been also the protest for those like I've been to six protest. Now, just about five of the six protests, um, in to 3 of them have been out for 10 miles a day each time an adult, five hours each time by 5 to 6 hours. And there's a long days, you know, I'm skinny and my God need to I need to get a better kind of diet and general, because I just don't. My adrenaline is pumping so hard. It's hard for me to eat sometimes because it's so much happening. But is one of those things that is definitely draining in a full spectrum of emotions. But it's unparalleled feeling to be involved in something like that, just even marching all alone and being able to take photos. On top of that, it makes it that much more special to me. This this notion of being hired by The New Yorker via your D. M's an hour before they want to kick off the assignment, I think just just ah, just a reminder for everyone who's looking at you in your work and this story as just a powerful message that having put in the work that you have, ah, is it pays off and it's very hard for I think, for a lot of people to understand this level of work that you've been putting in. So I want to retrace now that we've established what the last couple weeks has been like for you. Owner reestablished um, your your work ethic, how you got involved in photography and this decision that again I know a little bit more. Um, because we were talking before we started. Ah, broadcasting today. And of course, you mentioned that we've been in same same creative family for a number of years. Accretive live. But I I was hoping you could share your creative journey and this idea of believing in the power of your work talk to us about that so that you can provide some, you know, not just light and inspiration, but what has come to be a pathway having to put in the work and then arriving at some point, talk to us about your journey. Um, if a sure, Uh, I'm 33 years at 33 years old. Now for contact to be 34 in January. Eso You could buy me a birthday present early. Um, so but, uh, I didn't, but I didn't go to art school. I didn't have in any of artistic desires growing up when I went to high school and out here. Jamaica, Jamaica, Queens. I'm going to Thomas. That is in technical, vocational high school. And the reason why I went to that school in the first place was because, you know, I used to play the cello and in the in the orchestra in junior high school, and my parents told me that, like, you know, it be, You know, you'll make more money, like, you know, working with computers. So this is why I'm gonna go to this high school and, you know, work on computers. But when I got to high school in the first day, my shop, my shop teacher, told me that, you know, for my classes computer repair, that it was cheaper to buy a new computer. So I was like, This class is completely pointless in the first place. And we pretty much played common striking Yoho pool for the next four years of high school. So I've I've immediately learned that, like, you know, my dad was an electrician, and I immediately learned that, you know, I have to find something that I love to do because my father loved being an electrician's not only wasn't, um, attrition, but he also ran his own business. That was our be electric. And it was a contractor. An electrician's in, and he ran that for 35 years and provided for my family and broke a lot of stereotypes because I came from a nuclear, a nuclear black family. Ah, lot of people at the time, especially and like in the early nineties is the stereotype was like, Oh, no, you come from a single parent home. I was like, No, I have both my parents. And there's nothing wrong with come from a single parent home. But like, you know, I just wanted to reinforce will stacks. Like now we have, you know, things that my parents No, they stuck together, they fought together. They have all these things that they continually broke stereotypes with and, you know, and it was a really huge inspiration for me. So when I got older, I really wanted to figure out something that I love to do. Um, at first, I love making money, But I quickly learned that making making money is not the overall arching goal of what I was gonna leave me to true happiness because I worked a bunch of jobs. I mean, I worked at McDonalds. I worked at express. I worked at sea years. I worked at the hostility and I was working with my dad as an electrician's helper. For a long time I worked at Fox News. I worked at Bloomberg. I worked at Nickelodeon. I worked at Gamestop. I've worked at R B I of works pretty much at every single job known to man and at all those things that I've done in my life. I just learned that, you know, you need to do what you love, You know that my dad had loved being electrician's, like, I would like to say, over and over again. Um, so eventually, when I stumbled upon photography while worked out when I was recognized Gamestop it was a big revelation for me because it was a form of access to something that I could use with my hands, just like I did with my father. That, or was on my terms of, like, not having to climb up a ladder and being, ah, copper rod into around in the building circuit breakers and of that stuff is beautiful work. But it is definitely a different level of art. I couldn't I couldn't never really appreciate but photography And then, like, you know, kind of like this, this form of visual contracting I could execute the same kind of gold. So, um, I went through a lot of stuff in my life. They know the reason why I was working a lot in the first place while while I was working a lot in the first place. I happen to get mugged when I was 18 and I had to get facial reconstruction surgery on my face. And that's something back for about a year and had a lot to really like, kind of contemplate and think about what I really wanted to do in the first place and stuff like that and having that kind of resilience and understanding that, like, you know, the world keeps spinning. And I need to figure out something that truly loved to do was, you know, another layer of all the reason why I decided to really take this photography stuff seriously. Once you know, I stumbled upon, you know, this instagram road. So I picked up Instagram when I was 25 and after I picked up Instagram, I decided that, like, you know, this is really my life. I decided it to like I got fired, I get fired and I got fired from all my jobs but I can't fire from Ari I because I kept on being away from taking photos and, like, you know, being distracted because I never stuck that being at work. But I just I was tired of investing my why invest into a membership when I should be investing into myself? I could be investing into my people, and I just decided to take that route instead. And, um, it was hard. It was hard is helping me. I had to sleep in my had to sublet my room in my and this current apartment had the sublet my room asleep on this couch. That's pretty much right here to the right of me, for they're near about a year to 18 months. But the minute that had, like, you know, sleep in my own couch. I got my first passport, and I was able to go on my first gig with London, actually with coach to cover in Men's Fashion week, and that was like in 2015 and I need any ahead pretty much his homeless, you know? I mean, at the time, sleeping on my own couch. So, um, I went for it because, uh, you know life is boring if you just try to play it safe all the time. And then I know that all my situations I had to be forced to push the to be pushed out the best. But I've always found a sense of purpose, of trying to keep it simple and do what I love and I really hold true. True to that. And then that's why I feel like all of this photography stuff and everything. That's kind of including with this visual contract that I like to reference it as is really crucial to my happiness. Like even if I wasn't paid for this, I would I would still be doing this shit anyway. Yeah, there's a beautiful quote that I've heard that we've shared Ah, a lot in the past couple of weeks here creativelive and on my personal channels because it's been so inspirational. You talk about something you had never shared before, which is a friend of yours, something like, you know, confronting you about trying to, you know, live You live your dreams. I'm wondering if you can recall that for us. I will never forget it. Share it with us. What? You talked about, Ah, your friend telling you couldn't do it. So this was definitely, you know, early, early, early in the ah days of, you know, Stever be. I think I wasn't even Steve store Pan shed. I think I was still referencing myself as Trow Bellamy, which was like my mother I g name and reference the Bill Bellamy from how to be a player in, like, immigrants. Any given Sunday. Um, but I remember No, I was picking up, but I was using, like, a Nikon D 2100 or something like that at the time. Um, and I was a UN official A and R for a rapper. And, you know, we were talking about dreams and ideas. I'm like, you know, I've always been I've always been a really nerdy Ah, like a nerdy kid that's been into the other, like, you know, dope, shit of the world. You know what I mean? Like, I grew up, I grew up listening to, like, you know, I grew up in the nineties era of hip hop in the golden era of hip hop in New York. So, like, that's my frame of reference. And at the same time. You know I love dinosaurs, you know, Power Rangers and all the other 30 things that was happening in the world so that the duality of my life has always been there. So, um, I have always had ideas and dreams of doing, you know, wanting to do things, even though I didn't have the money to do it, you know, played a lot of video games. You have a big imagination. And I remember, like explaining to like one of my friends who was from Long Island or the Queen's Own Island area by who we were all that at the house, like hanging out like, you know, just just talking. Hey, was, you know, asking me what I wanted to do with, like, you know, photography and I was seemed like I was taking a very serious and like, you know, there's a There's a big thing sometimes, especially in our community of like it, this sense of fear if you fail and ah this interfere if it's too expensive and like all these different kind of variables that like, how are you going to do this thing? That seems like it's such an investment of time and money and energy. Um, And then when he asked me the question like, you know, I told him, like, you know, I was gonna do, like, some national Geographic kind of stuff. Like, I want to travel the world like, you know, been in New York and my whole life, You know what I mean? Like, I've been been blessed if I travel with my family and, like, you know, do stuff like within the States. But, like, I only been within the United States like I'm gonna see shit, you know? And he looked at me like it was physically impossible, and like he said, how are you going to do that? And I got so offended these because, like, why are you projecting your fears and your insecurities onto me? Um And then any time somebody tells me I can't do something, I'm gonna say I'm not Fuck this. I'm gonna do that. And I went completely. I used that as fuel for such a long time. Um, that, you know, most of you know it honestly, and most and sometimes I felt like I looked Oh, look at him in a negative way. But at the same time, it's not. Look at him in a negative way. I was more or less just this discussed it with that notion that you can't do anything if you try and I remember bumping into him and you know he has. No, he has a regular 9 to 5 and there's nothing wrong with having a record. 9 to 5. Everybody has a regular 9 to 5 human life. But when I bumped into him, um, no, he looked at me like in shock. It was like, Oh, man, like, you know, I see you've been doing your thing. But But But But Blouse again. But like I told you, you know, like like like like this. This shouldn't be like this sense of doubt. If anything, like you need the support system from people that could tell you that you can do it and it is nothing against him, and I know we get from New York, so we bust each other's balls all the time, and that's what gives us the character and that wit and that that grit. But I use that stuff is full as feel all the time and because it's really important to me to have always have a chip on my shoulder, and that's was happens when you grow up with a contractor like, you know, an electrician's. You just have this. You have that initial like, No, I'm a prove you wrong. And I'm a build it in them to show you that that's so action oriented. I love that. And I also love the thing that you just said a second ago about surrounding yourself with your people and talk to us about what role community has. I think a lot of, um you know, that the idea of the individual artist out there in the world is you know, it's ah, it's a stoic and popular image that culture has created. Um, but I know from having read about you and from our personal conversations that communities that we've been really important. And I'm wondering if you can, you know, highlight. Ah, a couple of examples. And, um, talk to us about community community. For me is eyes pretty much our whole ethos of ah, of of by individual individual Ali with my art and photography and everything else that all the other endeavors of creativity that I like a lot to explore, but it's also know the backbone of what we represent. Industry dreams for a company, for a creative agency and for a magazine not be not only myself, but, like, you know, Eric Eric below. So who is also also about other fellow co founder and might see my other fellow co founder? I called him Uncle Make, um, all of us come from big families, you know? And then when you come from, big families like you are used to engaging in supporting and, you know, playing around. And you know, just being being there for everyone in your family, for your cousins, for your aunt's here, your uncles, your mom, your pops like before the grand parents and all that stuff. So the way that we treat street dreams and, um and everything that we believe about of the things that we created comes from this essence of family. Um, and is a humongous part of, you know, everything that we represent is because that the magazine in the art that we're trying to create and have, you know, be like these time this things that we're putting out there in the world is It's not just from us is from everyone. So we want everyone who's involved with street dreams and everyone who's either working with this or fill you affiliated with us or people who just, you know, to come to our instagram, page our to our website or listen to our radio. We want you to feel as involved and inclusive as possible because you know, having all this retail experience and, you know, working, you know, working on these jobs in the first place. One of the things I learned was this is such a big disconnect from, you know, a consumer relationship also from, you know, the people working with them, where we want to take more or less the cash, register out the store and then have everybody just be, you know, in the same space together and enjoying that space together and learning and building because we feel like that's how you, you know, you really grow and be progressive together. Eso You know, we just you know, obviously we just try to stay away from people that are jerks and assholes, and as long as you're a loving, caring person that loves your art or loves literally, Just anything about being, um you know, progressive into this space. We completely condone that. And then we want to project that onto our work as much as possible. Man, um, you said in your intro how important it was to you to speak your truth and the truth of your family and use the word your people. And we took a little trip down the the last 45 days of your life being on assignment and helping tell the stories that, um, you've been sharing not just on your instagram, but again of these you huge major media outlets like Jake you and New York at the New Yorker. Um, talk to us about this. Ah, about telling truth speaking truth for your people. It's such a compelling ah, narrative that I think we all want in the world. And you've managed to do it. Tell us how and I think is a really big, like, introspective look on my life and what I really wanted to communicate with my work and for my people have meaning that, you know, I I've had you really awesome mentors and yogis that I look up to like Jamel Shabazz. who I would, you know, shot his name from the mountain tops. And also Jos Rodriguez, who have been I feel hugely instrumental in my process over the last couple of years of working with them in the Last Issues or Street Dreams magazine, and also on some other things that we have. I know coming out in the works with them as well, too. And one of the things that Jemele Schabas told me during one of these penalties that we've hosted with him at the Brooklyn Brooklyn headquarters a couple of months ago was that his sense of purpose was that he was fighting for love. You know, everybody could look at these different things from his photos. And if you ever have a chance of look a journalist robotics work, I highly suggest you do. If once you look at his work and you see you know the black experience of what it's like to be in Flatbush, Brooklyn, in the eighties and what is like to be out in the East, New York and all these different places and and then you could look at the you could look at the photos for, like, you know, the rope change and the jewelries and the and the gazelles and, like, you know, the radios and the gear. Or you could look at it for the deeper substance of it, what it is on being loved and community and togetherness. And that really hit home for me in a lot of different ways because Jemele Sebastian, somebody who's came he came from my neighborhood, who's published some of the my favorite books ever known to man, and I can actually physically talk to him, especially that's everything that's happened with my father. You know, you know, having his four strokes last year and not being able to, you know, be able to talk and, you know, and move around like that as much as he could cut back in the day. Having like these people like the Joseph every guesses and like the Jamel Shabazz is gave me a deeper sense of purpose with my work and understanding of all these things that I've been trying to communicate in the first place. So I have an opportunity to speak on these platforms and show showcase. My work on these platforms is, I mean, exponentially, exponentially stronger, education wise in the future because there's a really full circle thing that's happening right now with a lot of these stories. And I'm not the one of the kind of people to say that. Like, I think black people only by people should be documenting stories. I think that it should be for everyone, honestly, because I feel like we need as many allies as possible. But however, it is really important to have a full circle story on the spectrum of a black experience, um, to document something like this because we're looking for things that other photographers, quite frankly just won't look for, because how we raised and there's nothing wrong with that, that's the actual beauty of life. You know, Um, that's something that should be highlighted. And the perspective should be put on the platform. And not just because of my skin color, but also from our perspective, where we from, and and everything that we've been through for these last 405 100 years that we've been fighting to be on this, uh, on this continent in the first place. How did you How did you find these mentors that you've referenced? You talked about it, You know, being a part of a family and family. Almost. You've talked about it seemingly in, like, concentric circles. You got your immediate family, which you've talked a lot about you talked about in your Ted talk. You talked about the community of creators. You've talked about your creative live family in that community. It seems like you know, this is a huge, fundamental piece of your life and your work. Have you cultivated that specifically with some of the the renowned folks that you cited that you can now have a conversation with? Yeah, that just doesn't happen from, you know, sitting at home playing video games despite how much fun it might be had as you cultivate thes relationships, Um, I tried to be as unpretentious as possible. I try to also be as hard working as possible. Um, I try to be community of as possible, and I try to do the work. And I think a lot of the times I no get so lost in the fact that I'm trying to do the work that you know is awesome always to see of the feedback and it being responded to well, but you know, I don't think it me every photo every next photo I feel like is literally gonna be my next best photo. And I not to say that I don't judge my work with the level of respect because I've definitely do, because that's what I'm taking the photos. But I know that there's a long road to go. So every time that I approached, like, you know, the energies of the world like having a chance to work with them with the platform my street dreams, honestly, to be able to feature they're working and in the and capsulize it and leaving in our little time capsules, if you will not only cannot offer them a level of respect to our demographic to show them like, you know, we care, and we're going to keep on passing the torch. But, um, I bugged these dudes. You know, I generally act some questions and I don't try to be, um So, uh, this is the intricate balance of being annoying and also be varying, being very in tune of what they have going on as well. To and I really tried to hold that hold that true to myself. So Um, yeah, like I forgot to even mention like Melody. Coal is another one that I look up to as well to And I got to mention recently got to meet recently in my Ricky Powell, the legend who's one of the one of my favorite people in the York because of everything that he brings to the table like all these dudes are, you know, they're hardcore about the working. They take it very seriously. So I know that they want to see someone that's younger than them, take it as seriously and know that they can pass the mass along to someone who is trying to do it the right way. So I definitely am aware of all that stuff. And I don't try be a weirdo. I just tried to regular with people you know to be Just say what I feel. I have heard you talk about where the sweatpants part of your name came. You talk about being casual and comfortable, and ah, it sounds like Am I putting words in your mouth? If I say that, that's in part how you've approached some of your mentors in sort of a casual, comfortable ah, but respectful way. Is that me putting words in your mouth, or is that ah, does that close the circle? You know, that's about one. Um, that's that's part of my whole, you know, That's part of my home moniker. The reason why, you know, came up with the name and created the name is not only to pay homage to my mom, making fun of me all the time for procrastinating because I don't want to wash the dishes or do my homework, but also is the meaning of, you know, having people feel comfortable. And I want to be comfortable. And I want people to be comfortable around me. So that whole that's paramount to me more than anything, I don't want anybody coming into my space trying to fake the funk and vice versa, you know, because it doesn't lead anywhere, you know, it doesnt lead absolutely anywhere. Eso I tried to really hold that. True to what I'm trying to do. Well, I want you to know that I'm wearing sweat pants with that Thank God homage and respect to you right now, my man. Thank God I was gonna just in the chat like I'm out um you talked about a lot of ah, you know, respect and knowing what your mentors air doing and being persistent. But you've also heard No. What about Kevin Durant? Oh, you haven't. They ran. That's my man. Oh, my God. That's my fingers. My favorite basketball player right now, being able Teoh being able to shoot him was honestly just insane. That's my guy. You've also heard? No. And I want I want you to Ah, help us understand What? When when someone tells, you know. Ah, how has that motivated you? How has that set you back? Because so far I haven't heard anything set you back. Everything's been motivating and inspiring even, you know, your friend that that was talking shit, that you couldn't do it, you know, that was motivating, is there? Um, by their low points for you is their frustration. And I think that my my thing is, when you have ah, sometimes when you have such like a motor like that I get from my dad, like of always going that were, uh, so empathetic that we're get so I get so emotionally invested into things where I need to take myself out of it. Um, because I get into deep, you know, I get into deep and I get too emotionally involved, and I get too invested, and it becomes this thing where, um I have a fear of being stagnant, and I also have a tendency of being self destructive. Sometimes not all the time of meaning. My, you know, I like to drink, you know? If so, if I feel bad about something, like, you know, I'm a hit the bottles today or something like that. So I have to be very aware of, like, this full balance of emotions and not trying to take everything And at the same time, because, um, yeah, I take it you have to take it day by day, and I I do get the sense of, like, you know, I'm just trying to do all this shit if you should do as much as possible. And then every time I realized that I can't do that, um it is like one of those things that I get frustrated. But also, you take that deep breath of, like, you know, I take it day by day. Like had they give myself like these level of short term goals of action actionable goals because, um, I keep on saying that the world keeps on spending. So if I I don't mind myself properly, I know that it could, you know, depression is a real thing, like, you know it that Ah, that's it's what everyone in that definitely sets with me. Like, if I read Twitter for more than 20 minutes that I've almost getting a fucking panic attack, you know what I mean? Like, it's a lot of is just heavy, you know? All of it is just so heavy. So I had to really like to name and to now and understand that balance balance my CI as much as I can. You know, um, 015 seeds from my G live as a fall won't question to that. And it's after this fire and the fuel of negative disbelief. Like the stuff of your friend motivated you earlier. Um, what other fuels slash tricks do you utilize to push yourself for more? That's where Question. Um, I find inspiration in a lot of different things, and I feel like one of the constant sources of inspiration is how do I project my emotions onto the day. You know, there's a lot of references that I do with my photography that is referencing to the theme again. A family like you know, I have a photo that recently I just posted yesterday, but like a little girl should on the fireworks outside, like right. It's right outside of my building. And that just kind of reminded me of the times of me like and every shot. If I I've never shot fireworks with my parents and like, you know, like that But you should be just hanging out, shooting it like, you know, shooting the shit with my parents are like, you know, singing Alicia Keys when my mom are like, you know, or doing like you know, me, my dad, like dancing to Michael Jackson. Something like that back in the day, like it reminded me of one of those things. And, um, there's another photo that I take. I took it before where there's like a guy who's riding a bike like down the middle of the street, like, you know, by himself in the middle of Times Square. And then for that, I wanted to project the feeling of like I am legend kind of feeling of best of time in the city where it was nobody outside. It was like one man against the world. But he's wearing, like, an American face, Max, stuff like that. So I'm projecting a lot when there's not when I'm not using, like, that trip of my shoulder to, like, you know, I always like to use the chip on my shoulder because that s honestly my favorite fuel. I'm gonna lie to you, but I also like Teoh project a lot and projecting emotions and projecting references of my life is 100% what I do doing my work. So I'll be able to look back at every photo and know exactly how I'm feeling and where who I was thinking about, um before. Thank you. That's amazing. Um, and ah, 015 seeds gives you shout out. Thank you for ah, answering that question. Um, before we started broadcasting, you know, we're in a time of massive civil unrest and ah ah, cultures movement toward social justice. We were talking about ah, little bit about truth. I want to visit this again and and we were shaking our heads about my experience, I think the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone here in Seattle and, um, how the media have portrayed it largely with doctor photographs and composited videos of things that actually have not happened there or are not really and trying toe, you know, make some videos like, Look at this. There's free medical supplies, free food, water, citizen driven patrols. And I'm curious because we didn't get to it. We went live right before I got to hear the other side of that, your piece of truth. And what role does truth play for you personally and for your work? Um, the truth is, I mean, I wish there was, like, a kind of like a I wish I could kind of refer to my workouts like a hamburger, if you will. And truth is, truth is like, the sub is like the meat of it, You know what I mean? Like there has. The art element is like, you know, like the lettuce and addressing, You know, the Bunning could be like, sometimes the caption for for me. Um, but like the truth, telling is the heart of the story of the storytelling. And I look at It was like, you know, new ways, folk tales of being able to carry on this message. So I'm that's why it's so important to be, you know, actually be there first to understand what's going on and a lot of those times And no, just documenting these very the divisive moments, you know, it's really easy to, you know, go towards a certain kind of narrative that kind of fits something that you that you feel comfortable with but I think is really important through photography and through the videos and through art, especially being at these marches and protests that you see like people giving out food. You see, like the people from the bodegas given out the border and giving out food. You see, like the people with the medical age. You see the nurses, you know, all the nurses and the doctors out in the streets, clapping for everybody. You see, the firefighters were no, no rocket, out with everybody and marching in solidarity. You see, like the Lbgt Q community. You see the black people, you see Spanish people. You see Asian people. You see white people. You see, I've seen white people turning up more for black folks I've ever seen in my life and a lot of these situations. Where is it Still gives me goose bumps just thinking in into seeing and witnessing it. So, um, I know that is easy to think about, you know, talk about the looting on the burning buildings because that's like those the actionable things that people were seeing happening in real time and that you can, you know, you could tweet and you know it's so shocking. But when you see the root of what's going on and understanding the solidarity and then unification, that is the 99.9% of the goal of what's happening in these marches and you can actually see his night might be the big best change. But you see the reforms slowly happening, but surely there's a lot more work to do. You can't deny that. You know you can't look to my all these new sources for your news, like you actually have to speak to the people who have been on the ground or actually experience it yourself when I feel like this is our time to tell the truth. In the age of like where there's just narratives everywhere. Like what is your What are you gonna do? That's not going to be the easy, easy way out. The easy way out is easily just gravitating towards those things. But what do you actually going to do to actually see what's happening of you if you're physically capably able to? So, um I mean, I just don't I don't see any other way. Well, you're getting a shoutout from Ah Chetan in India, from Ahmed in Leon, France Mobile and coming Damn Steve Alban, Alvin and Baltimore Baltimore by loves at the bar. Um, Jonathan Thompson from YouTube's chimed in with a question that I think I'm thinking about from the artists in the community who are listening and watching right now. Um, and that is what is the best effective way to hunt out, find and see these stories that you've been able to amplify and tell. It's sort of related to the truth thing, but also in pursuit of, you know, finding voice and and images that can actually tell the stories that you want to tell. Jonathan wants to know what's the most effective ways to to hunt these stories It's definitely tough I'm not gonna say is easy. There is tons of information flying around all the time. I feel one of the best ways to see what's happening on the ground is you know, to really try to figure out the photographers that are documenting documenting these stories and the people that are out on the videos. I know there's been a lot of different, like liar streams of protests. I mean, I stumbled upon me being in a live stream in a protest on for the Union Square one on the May 30th. So I know that there's a lot of these situations where you can actually see what's going on that doesn't have someone narrate narrating the story all the time that you can actually physically see what's going on. So you have to be really vigilant and, ah, and look for them. The couple of a couple of people that I could suggest for photographers to look for is definitely Melody Coal. Mel D. Cole, uh, he is documenting it pretty much every single day. He's out there in the streets. He's actually experiencing everything from Jersey City to New York to the Bronx to like he's going out. That everywhere, um, skinny was here is another person has been documenting a lot of the protest and everything that's going on on the ground. Anthony Geathers. That's a G e a T H e R s another one of my photographer friends who has been on the ground. There's a lot of you just had to really look for the work to see who's doing it. And, yeah, definitely not going to say is easy, but But the more than you find, like the people that are connected ground roots, you know, the ground, ground zero kind of people, the grassroots people that are connected to the scenes, you can get a little bit more truth out of these situations that you could help form a different kind of opinion on top of everything else that's going on, because I just had to keep on stressing to say is a full spectrum of shit that's happening, that you kind of all you have to look at everything in order to understand part of it, you know? Do you believe in lanes? Yeah, I've heard you talk about, um, you're your home base being New York and telling the stories of To use your words, your people. Is that your lane and do you have one? And what would you advise to others who are, you know, seeking to find their creative voice? And the one of my one of my voice is definitely trying to, you know, have a voice for my people, really documenting the black experience as truthful as possible. But overall, it's just my my overall goal. But photography is just enjoying life. That's why I hate like classifying myself as a photographer, sometimes like street photography would definitely be my foundation, because I've always gravitated toward street photography like I gravitated towards hip hop. It's a sense of discovery is a sense of freedom. It's a fluidity that has always been apparent in my life, and I like to contribute in my work. But I just love being alive and told the truth, and I just showing like what's going on in the world, period, like the heaviness that's happening in the world. It's because, like my life feels heavy, you know. But when should have sweet than my work for Probably feel a little bit sweeter, you know that mean like, because I am that I am empathetic of what's going on in the world. And I'm not like, you know, taken away from it. You know, even if I'm posting photos of, you know, a little grocery and fireworks, there's a little glimmer of hope in my life that I see you know, that I'm trying to translate, you know, But it doesn't mean that should is all sweet. You know, at the end of the day, I'm just trying to tell the truth in my living full, successful life and have my family be able to have a strong name that, you know, stands the test of time. Um, speaking of truth, some folks shouting out you're creativelive class 13,600. Oh, my God, That's crazy. Have taken it. 100% of people who have taken it for, uh who Donna Review recommended it. And I can say I remember. Well, I remember one aspect of your class. Ah, the last time I tuned into it, um, and it was about, I think, photographing the little things. Or actually, I can probably pull it up. There's something about the little things that details um how How does that manifest in your work? How do you think about that? Or do you when you're approaching your work? I'm obsessed with the little details of my work. And there is There's definitely gonna be a time where I'm I'm working on a lot of different books this year. Actually into this is the year I'm releasing books, which is gonna be really dope is long overdue, But I'm obsessed with the full spectrum of a story. So there are definitely a lot of details that go into just everyday life that that could lead into the this grandiose moment, you know? So I'm obsessed with, like, seeing the little stickers, and might seem like, you know, the little person carpet like this, a guy literally doing a willie down my block right now. You know what I mean? Like, there's old like these little different things that is happening that the best detail about him on the do not really on the bike. Is that here? Like a blue van den it. That's tied. And you know, people be out here, you know? So it's all paying homage to like the neighborhood. So it's all these all these little details are very intricate towards you know, the overarching story because, you know, it's just like having a plane sandwich with nothing on it. Like, you know, you know, if you add a little bit different kind of flavors to wait like it adds so much more personality individuality to it. And I'm really conscious of that all the time because, you know, I'm referencing stuff like my long love of animated my long love of like, you know, basketball that my lower love of like, you know, hip hop music of no sample the sample culture of hip hop in like, you know, uh, being able to understand where the references come from. It has the same kind of intricacies of my work as well, too. To me, everything you just talked about is about personal style. Yeah, and I feel like this is the most elusive thing for for creators and for entrepreneurs. People were starting whether it's magazines or, you know, just trying to get their own business Sola partnership or whatever off the ground. Um, how have you refined your personal style? And what advice would you give to others who are struggling to achieve that, Uh, I guess the biggest. The biggest thing to achieve them, I guess personal style for me is being very open minded to the sense of discovery. You know, just like I mean, I love observing stuff. I love, I don't There's things I don't like because I know I don't like them because I've tried it enough to know that I don't like this, but I still am not overly, you know, it still doesn't mean that I still won't even observe just a have a reference of what's going on. You know, like when I say that I enjoyed being alive like I enjoy all aspects of being alive, you know, like all the little things about it, this old little intricacies to make a dope. You know? You know, Washington, this Washington just dishes is terrible until, like, you have a good music, you know, or like, you know, there's all these little kind of different things that I really you know, it all matters, you know, to me. So I don't every like, kind of, you know, exclude anything when I'm creating a moment or you're creating anything for myself because I take everything that the world has to give as a reference towards, you know, completing one singular task. Because it feels kind of selfish and, like, you know, ungrateful to not incorporate everything else that's not going on. It just the equate everything else that's going on, and it's kind of boring that way too. Yeah. Ah, Laurie Kallis Status thanking you for this wisdom. So many takeaways and action steps and notes, Um, from So what is next for you? We are in the middle of not just a pandemic, but ah, revolution. And I I'm curious how far ahead you're planning, are you, you know, is your mission toe. Wake up and go document this revolution that is happening right now. Have you thought about you mentioned books? You know how much of your time spent living in the moment versus projecting into the future about projects and about where it is that you want to take your work message? Um, share that with us. Um, the best way at I. Sometimes I have such a busy brain that I have to kind of break it down into, like, a short term goals and long term goals. So the short term goals there are like to refer to this part of phase two, and I've been doing my due diligence to be involved as many initiatives as possible. So, um, we ran. I think the sale of the prince cell is just over with this one. But I've ran something with Merche Aid and the guys over there, um, running a program right now with this company called Change A, C H and G E Doing a print sale with them as well to that goes back to all these different initiatives and bailout programs. That doing all the hard work that you know, I'm only just taking pictures s so hopefully I can help out on that front as well, too. And I'm launching a principal tomorrow with a good friend of mine who goes by New York. Nico and Crystal studios called photos for the photos of the Revolution have 17 incredible photographers involved with that. One of my good friends, Devin Allen, is one of the photographers that is involved with Hey, just got a second your time. Second time cover eso He's involved in one of that print run as well too. Hey did there the first time coming you got from the Baltimore riots back five years ago. And he's getting this this civil rights movement that's going on right now as well, too, which is an incredible and black photographer from Baltimore, actually, um, and face to Is it really important to me because this is the part where we can give everybody a chance to, you know, have be a part of the revolution and be part of the movement by purchasing art and art is a very intra mental part of Know how everybody is going to see the future educationally wise. This is our version of, you know, dictating our textbooks, if you will, of what we're gonna see in the future. So is really important for me to be involved with all those initiatives and having those run parallel to what we have going on the street dreams dot co on our website as well to I've been working a lot with us. We started this. Ah, the other baby we gave birth to in the family is the street dreams. Radio and ST James radio is a huge part of a huge part of our ecosystem right now, and We're finding very tactful ways of, you know, having all of the different protests and all the different movements has been happening. Sampled into the music and having that live for reverends to the mix is that it's running on mixed cloud right now. So when there is gonna be a time where we can start doing things in public again, can't wait to bring those activations back into the space again because we've been running street dreams radios parties for the last two years. Um, and then on the other end, this is a little bit too early to talk about, but I have a lot of faith in this project. Is working on something with Sony to build, ah, long term curriculum in our neighborhoods to really figure out things that I can see something is actionable that's happening in like the best eyes in the Bush weeks and also like in the Seattle's. And like my friends out in Houston, my friends in Baltimore befriends in Chicago in L. A. And I all over, like the States where there needs to be things in our community that we get actually seen the biggest commodity right now that we don't have in the hood is access, and that's everything that we need right now. And the more access that we have is gonna allow people to have dreams and allow people to have a different kind of goals. Besides, the stereotypical things that, even though we love to do, is not everything that we want to do. So that's a really important long term goal for me working out this curriculum curriculum for our communities. For Sony Andan that goes into the partnerships that I'm doing with, say, coffee and the medicines coffee of. We're coming up with a street dreams coffee brand that's going to be, ah, there's gonna be a chance that people can have You could purchase some coffee that is going to a great cause And you know, you could see where the all the money is going. So they had that kind of transparency. Go along with that as well, to and developing all these kind of different programs with these different brands. If I'm talking too much is, let me know because I feel like I don't know the Oh no, I'm telling you, as an ally, like I'm looking for ways to support. And and I know that is a huge piece, one of the core values that creative lives community, Yeah, and creativity, access and community or our 1st 3 of seven values. And it is so beautifully encapsulated in what you're saying and sharing right now. Um, so this community is looking for ways to to be supportive and to your point of Ah, it was along the the lines of access and and you talked about it in curriculum, in partnership with Sony, Just saying it right here in front of everybody that whatever way, creative Life could be supportive of cultivating this curriculum, making it available, using our worldwide global platform for to provide access, you've got my support. The support of all the resource is in creativelive. Um, you know, Steve got live. Just chimed in from Facebook. Live or sorry from YouTube. Live fascinated with photojournalism. The street photography, you know, hoping to um, you know, can you recommend some away for street photographers to get started? So whether you're talking to Steve or, um, some of the communities that you talked about serving. Ah, what is what is ah, way that you could suggest people get into photography, whether that's the path that you chose or if you had to give someone guidance today, uh, where, how would it be? I guess the best advice that I have for photography is before even picking up a camera or or an IPhone is understanding what you want to communicate. And then the more in tune that you have with what your vision is that your vision doesn't require you to have a camera, the more in tune of the vision that you want to communicate and project onto the world. It would give you more of every assurance of figuring out what you want. A document and what do you want? Oh, encapsulate to make these timeless moments the beautiful thing about what I love. One of the reasons why I love street photography, especially from when people are being very truthful and honest of it, is you get to see a real depiction of where somebody lives or and or what do you see in your neighborhood. So there is this weird balance of being able to document not only be truthful of what you want a document and understanding, like where you want to take it, but also like where you live and understanding, like all the people and individuals and stories that live in those specific neighborhoods, like I'm obviously being born and raised in New York. I live in pretty much like the epicenter of the world when it comes to pretty much just shit going down. So I know it sounds a little bit like, Oh, man, you could just go outside of New York. But I love scene photos from anywhere. Like if somebody's taking photos and Gary, Indiana, that of their community, that's tight. If somebody's taken photos on Hello, Lulu or if somebody's taking photos and New Zealand or Czechoslovakia, I really don't care where it is. As long as there there's a level of truth and honesty and obviously a level of style and artistic individuality, those are the most important things I think you need to convey in the measures message of street photography, and I guess the most important appointing part of it is, ah, level of ah, level of it being candid. You know, a lot of these situations aren't forced all the time. It's really just being able to be there and be present. Messing, don't talk to anybody because that's completely not what I'm saying. But understanding toe have the balance of, like, the candid moments and also on the same how to communicate with the people you're interacting with. Gives the stories that much life, Yes. Last question before I let you get back to work, as I didn't know about trucks backing up coming to pick you up right now. All right, Steve, it's time. Come and pick you up. Eyes always live. Um, so the events of the past month have, as we mentioned earlier in our conversation for those folks who turning in who are tuning in, it's really want toe steer you back to the beginning of this If you're just now tuning in, Um, look for the podcast coming out or this creativelive dot com slash tv Um, because you did a really nice job of articulating what this moment means. How are you going to continue to stay embedded in a movement? How how are do you have plans that are concrete enough to share with us? Such that we know you know the best places to follow you? We know what Ah, you've been very clear about the stories that you've told in these photographs that appeared in The New Yorker. Um, I feel like the world is watching, um, black artists now more than ever before and watching your art. As you know, it's just been shot into the limelight. What are you doing? How can we be supportive very explicitly. And is there any prescription Ah, that you would give to those allies watching on what to do to support? I guess the first thing I would like to say or even just to state is that you know, racism is not going to stop in our lifetime. Probably Andi and I'm hate to be the bearer of bad news with something like that, but it's just one of those realities that we have to phase. But at the same time, there is a bunch of hope in a bunch of reassurance that we have right now to have proper education and systemic things that last a lifetime that, you know, that kid's and grandkids and everybody in the future doesn't doesn't have to worry about all the shit that we have to do right now. So if we are all adamantly doing things that we could have, you know, long term change in long term educational kind of processes that actually give access and information towards, you know, the loving humanity that is actually over overcoming a lot of the things that is that is happening in the world right now, that stuff always always prevails. That always stands the test of time. And we just can't take the easy route. You know, there's nothing gonna be. There's nothing easy about this fight. You just need to be down to fight for life, just to know that we need as much support as we have, because this is something that's gonna be ah, long term thing. This is not This is not a two week tussle like I like to keep saying over and over again, like this is a long haul and everything that we're doing individually on street dream. I mean everything I'm doing individually the street dreams and, um, and in the future way, setting up a lot of things and a lot of different opportunities for people to be not only informed of what's going on on through art and through music, but also to have actual chances to give back towards these different initiatives that we have going on. So if anybody has the time to go to our website, which is street dreams, dot Co has not come street dreams dot co come We'll be posting this week the prince, the prince for a revolution this everything different photos from the 17 different, incredibly different photographers that were going to be having going up that's gonna be going live tomorrow. And also gonna be going live on the street Dreams site where you have a chance to participate on being involved in support. That's also gonna be live on dark room as well. Two of the good guys over there. Um, there are two books that I'm working on. I just go ahead and to make the official announcement for the book. It's ah, three book, a three part book series that I'm working on called How You Holding Up and Is Ah, Mental. Look on just the overall look of 2020 and we're gonna go, go, go through it by layers because I think it's really important to go through things that one thing at a time. So we first need to really address of just pandemic and Corona virus in general And really hell with that process and understand what happened. And then the second book is going to be everything of the tension and the revolution that's happening with the social injustice and the civil rights movement and how we're going to hell and unify from that. And the third book is gonna be a surprising we're gonna figure out, um, have everybody you know, be very in tune and hopefully everybody still interested to be involved in and support that as well, too. But yeah, really excited to drop this book or how you hold it up in a bunch of with a full digital platform in the gallery that everybody can. We could create a space where we can keep on talking about our issues and just being really open about this stuff and and not having. We don't have to talk about black issues during Black History Month every single time, like we can talk about these things all the time. Um and I'm just going making a concerted effort to have these different phases of the plan. So everybody must have, like, you know, support and all the support is very humbling and is actually making a real difference in, you know, everybody counts and we really appreciate of that. So it starts with street jeans dot co and on our website, and we launching this big print sale with New York, Nico and Crystal Studios tomorrow that they could check the information on our instagrams and on our website. And then we're launching the book. How you holding up To be released in a couple of months, which is the three part series, which is I'm really excited about this Well to and make sure you always check out street use radio. Well, unconditional pledge support from myself from Creativelive. Ah, thank you so much for being on the show for helping us understand your journey, your mission and, ah, what's next for you? It's so inspirational, and I just I I go back to our conversation at your show in the garage. Creative live in Seattle just over two years ago now, and, um, your impact is seems seemingly exponential. So I just want you to know I'm a huge fan and everyone in this community again, people shaming and from all over the world right now. Ah, very excited from the boat for about the books that are coming up, um, Bosnia giving you a shout out right now. Humble California is in the house. Jersey City? Sure is. He said, raise even neighbors worldwide on beyond humbled with this, uh, with this opportunity, chase your legend, and you definitely didn't have to do this, um, forever grateful for the opportunity to be a T shirt in the first place with creative life, family and and just, you know, everything that you're doing right now for this movement is everything is really, really appreciated. And hopefully this goes as as far as it can, because it is a really important work you're doing. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. And I appreciate everybody coming online, too. I mean, I could talk a lot. I talked really fast in shit, but I appreciate everybody. Bosnia Monday in Paris. Humboldt, California, Baltimore. If I missed anybody, you could just scream at me in my PM. I'm sorry. We're happy. Show up, man. Thank you so much. Appreciate being on the show. Everyone, please go check out Steve sweat pants on the I g and ah, stay tuned for more. Hopefully we can talk off line here about this, the way the creative life can be supposed Oh, yeah? Please. In this curriculum of the government or yeah, we're on it. Ah, Signing off to everyone who is tuned in from around the world. Thank you so much. Make sure to pay attention to Stephen. His work on Just know Steve, that we're here this