Segment 5 - How to Create Your Ideal Client Persona
So tell us again about your business. I know we heard it at the very beginning, but let's, have a refresher, know theirs. And don't be nervous. You're not ever in my heart's beating. Okay, I can feel it. Um so I have two arms and I I want to preface that by saying that I'm in it a development stage so I'm actually in developing a lot of those foundational you don't know what you don't know yet exactly although I do have some clarity and that feels really good okay so share okay so two arms of the business there is the portrait and I have decided to focus strictly on headshots and families most of my clients are particularly for the head shots are going to be women because I I I really like working with women entrepreneurs and the fine art you know that's another where the where sort of the markets I'm not so clear um I've had some success selling on my uh my art to healthcare facilities I think it's a very good place for it however I've yet to define where I want it's like moritz defin...
ing me like where the money comes in okay here you go right which is not uncommon particularly when you're getting started yes so let's let's try to focus on one of those okay so let's I liked what you said when any time I hear people say I like working with somebody I mean to me that's one of the that's one of the characteristics of an ideal client I mean if you're you know if you're going to be working day today with actual real people and they're going to be in your studio or they're going to be you know in your officer you're gonna be going to their offices it really doesn't hurt if you kind of like being around each other right I mean there's nothing worse than that phone call and you're kind of like oh, I don't want to answer that you know, phone you know from that so so that could be a characteristic and doesn't mean that that has to be the on ly nothing but I like that in a small business because it's so personal so let's talk about these women entrepreneurs so if I were to come to you and keep that persona in mind and so I would ask you the very broad question so you were telling me about your business I know a lot of people that you need their photographs taken how would I spot your ideal klein she's going to be probably a mother okay let me see oh you'll pay attention because you're going to add to this you're going to help her with this okay so so don't you know this is not your time to check out in case I know none of you were doing that but I just you know thought I would warn that so you're gonna analyze what she's saying you're going to help her make this better or you're also able to say you nailed it to you know I totally see who that is but all right, so this is going to be I'm sorry, how would I spot your ideal client again? So she's definitely carrying a lot of responsibility. So she has their own business and, uh, she's a mom, actually, because those two parts of the business would support each other very well. Um, and, uh oh, gosh, this is I just have to say that this is, like grabbing in the dark. Yeah, yeah, right, because you said you already knew. So there's. Some of that, so think about, have you have you had a client that is that democrats, so she's a yoga? Uh, okay, so now we're getting a little finer, so it's not. She'll be into spiritually growth. God, I know that, yeah, and she'll be into learning about herself about her. Her power in the world about what makes her unique about what specific powers she has other strengths I mean however you want yes okay say that um well you should get information why does she why is she looking to get a photograph taken she needs something updated for her profiles for her website she wants something that resonates who she is and that is able to communicate that quality that essence okay all right and you think they're you guys starting to get a picture of this I mean one of things that you certainly have done particularly in I mean when you say women entrepreneurs that's that's a group that's defined able but that's still pretty big group right on dh you said who are moms again that maybe narrows the list some but probably still pretty pretty big group but then when you started talking about this uh this idea of that that there'll be a spiritually aspect to it and that maybe the photograph that she's looking for is different than other people how so well I'd really like teo to be a co creation so the photography has to at one point you're the director but at the other time you're also the interpreter or the uh the reader the seer I mean that's what a visual artist does they see things that maybe other people don't um so it's about about seeing that coming together understanding listening and then creating something that's a reflection. So are there any elements that she needs to add to this are their like, again, I think I think she's actually done a pretty good job narrowing, and I think it actually the language that you're even using already, I think, probably is going to appeal to the market that she's described, but is there? Is there some what's missing? Maybe the type of business that you'd like her to have like you said in the yoga teacher but other any other no you said that she was probably ah practices of yoga right no no the one I have in mind well that one actually was yeah okay all right all right okay okay so I actually haven't I don't know about professions that there are areas because you just don't have enough experience and really the nice thing is that if you're talking about these beliefs or these what marketers called psychographic you know that there's certain certain beliefs probably if somebody that has a spiritually background to them right I mean and you're saying that that's that's who you want to focus on right ok, so they're probably certain beliefs and it might not I would say if you did a whole bunch of research there's probably industries that people with those believes no armor or more drawn to but it can't be industry neutral to couldn't I mean because if you know that definition of of of an entrepreneur well female entrepreneur so maybe maybe to find that a little I I actually I know probably one of the groups will be coaches because I I've worked with a lot of coaches I've been in a lot of coaching groups and I understand what they do and I think it's also like photography coaches is an industry where you really have to differentiate and start to get clear because it's a growing business yes this o r define it iss what you do yes how about from the internet people chai ming in here on this particular one or shit for for terror are they sharing their own incites people they have some questions about you mentioned psycho graphics now this question comes from zaza zaza and they say that seems like demographics are much more straightforward is there a different way of looking at the psycho graphics I think that word kind of intimidates a lot of demographics are typically straight forward I like to talk about observe the kind of things you khun you khun by research on I mean you could say in my neighborhood x amount of people that are this age you know live there psychographic our little tougher and you started to get at psychographic because well what you actually did you identify the behavior that thes people typically have a a spiritual aspect too you know what they want to get out of their business may be what they want to get out of life on dh that that typically then starts to finding things they believe in right I mean things that they value things that they want so so when you started describing what what you believe people want out of their actual image or their action I'll photograph you know that's much different than somebody who is probably just saying hey I just you know and the an updated shot I've lost ten pounds on five years older you know whatever it is I need an updated shot right that's a different person and that starts that that really starts getting at the essence of this idea of psychographic says it can be a really confusing uh topic no question because what you're really doing is you're saying you know what do they value and sometimes it's hard to have markers I mean you can't just walk up to somebody and say do you value life long learning you know do you value people telling the truth uh those air harder things toe to really pin down but I used that example of in my business we have discovered that people that I told you that that belonged to their association or participate in their industry association a lot of times that tow us is a marker of somebody who value's expertise values lifelong learning and those those are things those air psychographic is quite frankly that we're trying teo to identify with that we know are good you know markers of behavior that makes an ideal client for us and so in your case what would somebody what would somebody do and and again sometimes it's quite obvious that they have a spiritual practice and belief and in some cases they wear it on their sleeve right? But what are some other instances where you would say, you know, people who do acts you know might typically fit that demographic. So since we've already narrowed it down to female entrepreneurs, is there a subset of feet? Female entrepreneurs? Is there a behavior that they would do that you think would probably and be an indication? They would probably eat healthy? They would probably have, ah, a practice of whatever, whether that diogo, our reputation or and so they might actually belong to other groups might read publications or get information or belong to you know certain communities right and so those air those then khun b you know for her the ways for you to maybe kind of clarify some of those psychographic that makes sense so could you or I'm actually asking you would you because this this is on the test go ahead and for your homework then write that out as thoroughly as you possibly can you were kind of giving like what I would call bullet points but you were actually want to write this out I use the term sketch you want to write this out almost as a as a thorough sketch so that if somebody read that they would and and again not not everybody's gonna know somebody like that but they'll either be able to say I don't like that or yes I know people specifically like that I know you know I would love to you know I know I mean that's that's when we get down to right now we're talking strategy but when we talk about in the last segment I'm going to do a little bit on referrals well when it comes to referrals e mean who likes to get really referrals that aren't suited for you right I mean it's a waste of time right because you still have to go out and tall on him and talk to him and find out that they're they're not right for your business so when you when you're talking to somebody who like a yoga instructor or like a massage or meditation studio or practice that you know those air those would be potential strategic partners for you I've been right and so when you go out and start talking to them, you need to be able to tell them here's how you would spot my ideal client now there's good chance from the sounds of things that they need they might know a lot of your ideal clients right? But part of part of this is not just oh nice strategy so we can develop it it's going to come into content on your website is going to come into content in your marketing kit it's going to be part of your referral system so I have a question so sometimes it's hard to separate especially I'm sure this with experience will start to heat, but I find that my my values is it a shared value? I mean obviously one of you like people who are like, you know, I mean that's a pretty human it is characteristic, so I guess where I don't want to fall into is just assuming that, you know, I'm curious toe where I diverged from my ideal client or is there well, here's, what I what I have experienced over the years, a lot of your start as narrow as possible because that's how you're going to develop a reputation that's what you're going to people are going to attract and refer like people right and so you're going to start there but but just in a few minutes we've been talking my suggestion would be that a person doesn't actually have to have that spiritual practiced actually want what you described in a photo right and so I think where your opportunity maybe is that you will attract people because it's very easy to talk to those people right it's very easy to say you can use words you know like a seer and you won't freak him out you know right on dh so but what will happen over time people will start realizing that you're art stands by itself and and that people who want that end product or that outcome or that result we'll actually be drawn to that as well and that's I think how you really expand particularly when you have that female entrepreneur you know sort of bent as well because that audience is much larger and I would suggest that if you start narrow typically you have a better chance of developing a niche that you can grow as opposed to hey I'm going to do all female entrepreneurs and alison you're competing with the six hundred forty seven other people who say they're doing that to make sense so it has to be kind of an evolutionary process it iss all right, thanks so much appreciate it so she didn't die. She could get hurt at all. I didn't think so. It's. Not so bad, so you guys can probably do that as well. So I want to end this idea of ideal customer really reinforcing this idea of behavior because one of the things that I found over the years is when I've worked with with particularly more mature businesses that have you know, a pretty good sense of that ideal customer in a lot of cases you know they're able to thoroughly describe it they're able to say yeah, we're you know we're trying to attract more of those people is that when they look at some of these clients that aren't ideal in some cases it's because of what we did to bring them in to educate them to attract them mean part of the part of the value of understanding who makes an ideal customer for you is also understanding the process they need to go through the education they need to go through in order to be an ideal customer writes because a lot of the the lot of this idea of an ideal customer isn't just a description it's that they have an ideal experience it's that they get the result and the outcome that was ideal as well and a lot of times that has to do with how we treat them the processes we run through you know how we orient them how we start them off you know how we deliver value on by example I've used a lot of times over the years when I've worked with organizations that have sales teams, you know they have five or six sales people and there's always one or two of them that bring in the best clients you know their clients are you know, always on time with what they're supposed to do they understand what's expected of them you know, they pay on time and you go back and you find that these people have developed kind of an orientation process that really not only attracts that ideal customer but trains them you know here's how to be ideal right? So I thought I explained in my business you know when people come to us and we get all the time now because you know we have kind of this large footprint and so we have a lot of people that come to us and say, hey, I hear you guys do marketing you know, come on out and do some marketing for me right? And so if we ran out and tried to do work or tried to explain what we do, you know we would be in a mode where we're kind of defending what we're doing we're tryingto educate what we're doing where you know, we couldn't even have a conversation about price because you know there's no appreciation for what we do right? So we actually have a process that we make them go through s o that weaken and again it's not it's, not for our benefit necessarily it's so that we can create a mutually beneficial experience and relationship that may or may not go somewhere, but at least we know that they've got the right information. They've got the right expectations. They've been oriented the right way, onda and that, you know, that's, how you create an ideal customer so it's, not just enough to understand this in businesses that I've worked with. Over the years we've been able to go and identify clients that seemed to be ideal, who didn't get the same experience as the people who turned out to be ideal. And I know that's a little that's, a concept that may be a little hard to kind of wrap your head around because we're not talking about, you know, concrete examples in your business, but but part of that is on going to talk about it in the segment in the next segment sum, you know, part of that's on us, too, actually create mohr of these ideal clients by actually making them go through the experience that we know will deliver the best experience for them. So the second component of this one is to actually after we know who that ideal client so we've described it so thoroughly that we then say okay how do we tell this market or this very narrowly defined idea client how we're different what's the core message the value proposition the reason why you would hire us and here's an exercise that again for those of you out in internet land and you guys in here as well if you have clients today one of the best exercise is that you can put them through is to go identify six or eight of these ideal clients on dh sit down with them or you could do it over the phone I would this is not a survey a scientific survey that you would send out via email but as some of these questions you know why'd you buy from us in the first place why do you stay with us you know what's one thing we do that you love or what's one thing we do that others don't on dh these questions can really kind of just be a guide for you but what you're trying to get at is what I have found is if I went around this room and said what do you do that you know what what's your core difference you know what you're why would people hire you some of you might have an idea of why it is but what I've typically found is your customers really know what your customers really know, what they value or why they come back or why they refer you and typically it's, not the things that you're promoting it's. Not the things you're talking about because experience tells me nine times out of ten. It is it's. The little things it's. The things that you don't necessarily think are that big a deal that you just think everybody does, and that that doesn't make you that unique on what you start to find when you start talking to your customers is there are components of your business that you should be talking more about that you should be elevating as really kind of your core message. So if if I I always hate to do this. But if anybody's on ly paying attention for a very brief period of time for this program is a as they join us, if nothing else, do this one thing I think you and I make a habit of doing because I think you'll you'll get tremendous value out of it. The thing you're trying to decide what you're listening for in those conversations is really themes you're trying to decide you know what are the ways that we can make the competition irrelevant quite frankly you know how can we change the context of what we actually are bringing to an entire market? I gave my story about how I kind of fumbled on tour discovered this idea of creating a marketing system called duct tape marketing ah lot of what I did with that was was understand that nobody else in the market was doing this nobody was talking about installing a marketing system on dh so it allowed me to really in some ways make the competition irrelevant because there was no way to compare kind of apples to apples because we weren't even speaking the same language but also it was an innovation really at the time and I think it still is today in some ways that that really kind of changed the way that people even think about buying marketing services so you don't have to come up with something that is completely market you know, earth shattering innovation but I think you do need to understand fully what your customers your existing customers truly appreciate or what they're lacking what they're missing what they're not getting from from companies like yours or services like yours and I will give you one word of warning I should've done on the last slide but you know they will say things like well, you provide better service you know or you did a better job right when and those won't be very helpful answers or nice to hear but you need to push a little bit right? So what is good service look like to you tell me a time or tell me a story again going back to stories tell me a story about how we provided a better experience or how you got a better result from us and those the answers to those questions you'll start hearing what I think are really kind of the gold in terms of trying to understand what your core message should be give you one quick example we had a client over the years that I was an architect and they again we ask them what they did you know that they thought was superior to what everybody else did and they said, well, you know, we designed better buildings and so we want it started talking to their customers are customers were all general contractors commercial general contractors and they too like to a person you know, three in a row when we did these interviews they said, well, yeah, they do good work, you know, we expected him to I mean, you know, they're architects but what we really like is they help us get paid faster and so after hearing that a couple times where you kind of had to dig in and say well what's what's behind that you know we need to know more about that because that sounds pretty promising well apparently a couple of their people were on zoning boards one of them was on in their communities one of them was a city councilman in a suburban community and so consequently they had really they kind of figured out the red tape you know how to get through how to get the plans through city hall and get the project started and of course once the plans were approved that's when the contractor could actually make the first draw on dh start doing 00:22:17.965 --> 00:22:21. the work and and start getting paid and so we actually 00:22:21.48 --> 00:22:25. took that information and created something that a 00:22:25.6 --> 00:22:29. tool that we use called the talking logo on we actually 00:22:29.33 --> 00:22:31. now instead of them saying you know if somebody would 00:22:31.44 --> 00:22:33. ask one of these architects or one of their business 00:22:33.2 --> 00:22:36. development people what do you do for a living we 00:22:36.07 --> 00:22:38. would actually they would actually say we help contractors 00:22:38.95 --> 00:22:43. get paid fast now if you're a contractor who was planning 00:22:43.57 --> 00:22:45. on building a building wouldn't you want to know more 00:22:45.2 --> 00:22:48. about that business whereas if they just simply were 00:22:48.25 --> 00:22:50. saying is their core message we designed buildings 00:22:50.47 --> 00:22:52. you say well get in line you know we got about ten 00:22:52.12 --> 00:22:54. architects you know that they're trying tio sell us 00:22:54.97 --> 00:22:59. work right now so I want to work on an exercise that 00:22:59.43 --> 00:23:01. and and feel free to jump in any time because I know 00:23:01.82 --> 00:23:04. you've done this with a few people but 00:23:05.42 --> 00:23:08. something called the talking logo in the way this 00:23:08.32 --> 00:23:11. and there actually is for you here and then for you 00:23:11.63 --> 00:23:13. guys out there in the internet land there actually 00:23:13.81 --> 00:23:17. is a page on this call the talking logo but the idea 00:23:17.19 --> 00:23:20. behind this is that you actually create a phrase or 00:23:20.71 --> 00:23:24. a statement that that actually answers this question 00:23:25.05 --> 00:23:28. what do you do for a living now I'll give you a warning 00:23:28.72 --> 00:23:30. if I were to walk around here and ask you what you'll 00:23:30.65 --> 00:23:32. do for a living and you started telling me I'm a yoga 00:23:32.66 --> 00:23:35. instructor I'm a photographer you know that's obviously 00:23:35.46 --> 00:23:38. not the answer I'm looking for right what I'm looking 00:23:38.36 --> 00:23:41. for is what what somebody actually gets what you do 00:23:41.69 --> 00:23:45. in a unique way so there is kind of a formula to this 00:23:45.52 --> 00:23:47. so because you did those interviews and again you're 00:23:47.89 --> 00:23:50. in a little bit of a disadvantage because you haven't 00:23:50.05 --> 00:23:52. done those interviews but were you two have done those 00:23:52.84 --> 00:23:54. interviews you probably would've heard some things 00:23:54.68 --> 00:23:57. that really are the primary benefit of of what it 00:23:57.81 --> 00:24:00. is that you do what it is that you deliver right and 00:24:00.68 --> 00:24:04. so so you would take that into this description of 00:24:04.58 --> 00:24:07. this ideal client on dh you would start answering 00:24:07.68 --> 00:24:09. you know what I do for a living like architects? Did 00:24:10.0 --> 00:24:12. I help contractors get paid faster so the formula 00:24:12.64 --> 00:24:16. their case you're following along is you know I or 00:24:16.03 --> 00:24:18. we are you know whatever you want to use and then 00:24:19.06 --> 00:24:23. you know verb help teach build and then that benefit and it's and if you can get obviously your target market in there they were after contractors s o they put that target market in there on they would create a really powerful statement that that and you know you've got it right when you when somebody says really tell me more about that right? So this contractor you know constant or this architect constantly heard you hope contractors get paid faster you know tell me more about that right so you have to have an answer well how do you do that right and and that's when you get because you've been invited you know that's when you get to talk about here's what we do that's incredibly unique okay here's our approach that make sure that you get these results that you're after so the couple tips and so what I'm asking I'm going to ask each of you to do is if I would ask you what you do for a living and again now I'm putting you on the spot because I just revealed this idea but do do any of you have a feeling that you could actually answer that question instead of giving me your title that you could actually answer that question in a way that would almost force me? It would be creative it would be very brief it didn't tell me you know everything that you did but but it literally forced me teo to want to know more to it and and you're shaking your head so you think you've got this already way have all right so terra yes what do you do for a living I photograph women entrepreneurs and help them convey their strength in their businesses and lives okay so what do you think did she know it all right it was a safe place this is safe place everybody what do you think and did she know it could be a little bit better yeah it was a little descriptive right I mean it kind of told me what you did I'm actually looking for something that's more outcome driven hey, what people get when they get that photo from you right so I'm go ahead you were going to offer a suggestion yeah so I'd say maximum performance yoga is changing the landscape of athletic training and youth sports by making student athletes play their best and stay injury free okay again and this is very common sort of descriptive right? It didn't make me say tell me more now if you if I just said what you did if I just asked you what you do for a living and you shorten that too you know I helped you know I helped student athletes stay injury free how about we make young athletes stronger and safer that's to me that's a better start first off it's it's it's there's this sort of dynamic balance between vagueness and and something that really makes me want to nome or so the people that you're talking to probably parents right in a lot of cases and and you're so you're starting to hit on you know that but what do the parents really get from their kids being injury for your stress is the parent of a high school softball player who's been out the entire season because of an injury that injury free is that you've got my attention with that where where you located by the way berkeley okay okay trade cards trade cards so so and that's one of the beauties of here of being live on the stages in the front row isn't it so so that we're getting at that a little bit so you want to get it down to that thing that makes me go oh I don't care how you do it necessarily obviously that's gonna be important but you get my tension by the fact that that's something I want right so I'm gonna go back to you the female entrepreneur what is the female entrepreneur want out of this photo that really expresses who they are right well they wantto convey it to their people why so that they attract ideal clients okay is that is a photo going to help them attract idea clients well I'm not questioning e I mean there are their their subconscious things that associations that everyone has that what are some of the things people have you you know you haven't done a lot of has anybody remarked 00:28:19.511 --> 00:28:22. on what they felt like your photo was captured 00:28:24.41 --> 00:28:25. something like you know 00:28:27.11 --> 00:28:29. you really you really understood me this picture is 00:28:29.55 --> 00:28:33. really me we're allowed me to be more authentic one 00:28:33.32 --> 00:28:36. saying that people say often is that they feel comfortable 00:28:36.48 --> 00:28:39. okay so those are some of the things you want to start 00:28:39.88 --> 00:28:42. working with I mean you might make you might make 00:28:42.43 --> 00:28:45. a statement like I helped you I help female entrepreneurs 00:28:47.05 --> 00:28:49. feel more comfortable more confident or more authentic 00:28:50.55 --> 00:28:53. right so that's I mean that's kind of getting at the 00:28:53.07 --> 00:28:56. outcome I think but it's vague enough for somebody 00:28:56.29 --> 00:28:59. it doesn't say I take pictures of people right because 00:28:59.8 --> 00:29:02. I don't realize that that's the benefit of that picture 00:29:02.37 --> 00:29:04. could even deliver until you make that statement and 00:29:04.94 --> 00:29:07. now I'm like okay now I'm hooked all right tell me 00:29:07.3 --> 00:29:09. how you do that and now I've sort of your sort of 00:29:09.95 --> 00:29:12. got the invitation to say well here's our unique process 00:29:13.0 --> 00:29:15. you know talk about how we capture the essence and 00:29:15.05 --> 00:29:17. how important that why that essence is so important 00:29:17.61 --> 00:29:20. right but if you just kind of show up and say I take 00:29:20.47 --> 00:29:22. pictures of female entrepreneurs you know it's kind 00:29:22.4 --> 00:29:25. of like ok yeah I know what that is that makes sense 00:29:25.24 --> 00:29:29. yes so there is this kind of balance between staying 00:29:29.25 --> 00:29:32. vague and it's you know it's art it's it's sort of 00:29:32.09 --> 00:29:34. a creative art because the shorter the better the 00:29:34.86 --> 00:29:38. more vague the better but but again focus on the benefit 00:29:38.87 --> 00:29:41. not on what you do if you're starting to use words 00:29:41.15 --> 00:29:44. that describe what you actually do you're probably 00:29:44.06 --> 00:29:45. varying off course do you want to take a crack at 00:29:45.86 --> 00:29:46. it 00:29:47.35 --> 00:29:50. yeah I was like I was agreeing with you but I can 00:29:50.63 --> 00:29:54. do here capturing the essence off people's personality 00:29:54.49 --> 00:29:58. yeah so so I so you would say it was something so 00:29:58.23 --> 00:30:00. what do you do for a living you might say I capture 00:30:00.53 --> 00:30:03. the essence of people's personality right and then 00:30:03.79 --> 00:30:06. they're again I'm not that may or may not be great 00:30:06.11 --> 00:30:07. you have to go out and try it and start using our 00:30:07.99 --> 00:30:10. people but that is a better example I think or is 00:30:10.64 --> 00:30:13. a good example I should say of getting kind of quickly 00:30:13.45 --> 00:30:16. to that statement that might make me kind of go really 00:30:16.55 --> 00:30:19. I need to know more about that so thank you everybody 00:30:19.18 --> 00:30:21. for doing that I know that can be hard I bet you there's 00:30:21.37 --> 00:30:24. some coming in from internet world yeah we do have 00:30:24.48 --> 00:30:27. some coming in we also have a female entrepreneur 00:30:27.05 --> 00:30:30. in the chat rooms as as a says as a female entrepreneur 00:30:30.9 --> 00:30:33. I want a photo to show that I'm professional trust 00:30:33.12 --> 00:30:36. where the confident wise powerful and easy to talk 00:30:36.27 --> 00:30:36. to 00:30:38.07 --> 00:30:42. so did you get that just forward her that chat you 00:30:42.6 --> 00:30:45. know so that's that really starts getting it that's 00:30:45.09 --> 00:30:47. the you know and that's what's so brilliant about 00:30:47.24 --> 00:30:49. this when you start playing with this you start coming 00:30:49.24 --> 00:30:52. to those realizations but that that is that's a description 00:30:53.24 --> 00:30:56. that I think ought to go into your person I mean you 00:30:56.01 --> 00:30:59. may find parts of it that that art available or or 00:30:59.64 --> 00:31:02. need to be in that but that's that's the level of 00:31:02.21 --> 00:31:05. detail you know that I think we were after so to add 00:31:05.61 --> 00:31:09. to that a little bit about the process about attracting 00:31:09.09 --> 00:31:12. those women and bring them in you know through that 00:31:12.35 --> 00:31:14. we talk a little bit about the hourglass but it gets 00:31:14.93 --> 00:31:18. me to thinking that as you qualify women to get the 00:31:18.41 --> 00:31:21. best out of the photo shoot finding out what some 00:31:21.32 --> 00:31:23. of those characteristics what some of those things 00:31:23.39 --> 00:31:25. are that the women want to get at it in a way it's 00:31:25.74 --> 00:31:30. partially part of their branding you know that image 00:31:30.37 --> 00:31:32. I just was just reading something recently about you 00:31:32.87 --> 00:31:35. know, the best poses for women versus men and head 00:31:35.72 --> 00:31:38. shots and I've got to think that there's something 00:31:38.94 --> 00:31:41. to that that goes a step farther that you know and 00:31:41.42 --> 00:31:44. that you're going after and that I may be different 00:31:44.09 --> 00:31:47. from zaza zaza but you can bring that out before you 00:31:47.35 --> 00:31:49. even pick up the camera and that's a really good example 00:31:49.88 --> 00:31:52. of changing I've used this the term a couple times 00:31:52.63 --> 00:31:55. changing the context of what they're buying so they're 00:31:55.21 --> 00:31:58. no longer buying a photo that they can also go to 00:31:58.01 --> 00:32:00. maybe target now and find somebody to take a photo 00:32:00.96 --> 00:32:04. of them does that make sense? I mean so ah and obviously 00:32:04.27 --> 00:32:07. you would never consider that as competitors but it 00:32:07.72 --> 00:32:11. really is in a in a way right and so by changing this 00:32:11.57 --> 00:32:15. conversation completely to a whole nother level it's 00:32:15.92 --> 00:32:18. it's the benefit it's not just oh yeah it's worth 00:32:18.58 --> 00:32:22. more money it is you know you're you're look you're 00:32:22.45 --> 00:32:24. changing the context of what you're actually doing andi think that's ah that's where you really find the magic in in particularly in industries that which we all are in that people can commoditize right anything more from the chat rooms jay rodriguez says that they that he or she makes people superhuman superhuman and there is already in the chat people asking how do you go about doing that esso and that's that's really I mean that's such a great example to I mean that's you have to be comfortable with this thing but I would push you guys tio you know to take this a ce faras possible and maybe we'll come back from another segment at some point and squeeze a few more of these in because I think it's a lot of fun but you have to be comfortable with delivering that, it can't be something that you worked with. Somebody like me and a kind of talked you into saying, superhuman. We make people superhuman, but you can't like, live it. You can't feel it. It has to be something that you can go out. They're confident they deliver, but you can get is created as creative or as crazy as, you know, works for your market. I mean, there's, some markets that if you sell to hate to pick on any industry, but if you sell two accountants, there's, a good chance that you will narrow, you know who you attract. If you talk about making an accountant superhuman, possibly write, that may not work for, you know that market, but you so you have to understand this is done in combination, you know, with who makes that ideal client so one more that come in that I don't want to share this one from green machine they're talking about interviewing their customers to get to that sort of message and they said that they asked the cash customers what did you love about our service and a few times the same answer came up you got us paid faster so then they took that and they put that into their marketing messages and said we help contractors get paid faster so they were actually doing this they must have read my book that's great I think so unbelievable no that's that that's what I think the message in that of course just to reinforce the message I gave earlier is listen into your customers they really the things because you know, even with this architect the example that I gave they were really reluctant to use that as a message because it felt sort of unprofessional if felt you know they'd spent a lot of time you know saying you know were these great architects we've gone to school for a hundred years you know to be able to do this stuff and so when it came down to it we help contractors get paid faster there was a lot of resistance but as soon as they actually started using it it immediately open doors in fact this this was a third tier architect that best in their community and they within about eighteen months became the leading design build you know, commercial architect in their community in large part because they and it wasn't just because of that message I mean that's the other thing too is you know we built products and services and offerings around promoting that message so they had this feasibility study product that they would sell for five hundred dollars and so they would get invited in early in the process and be able to to tell people where all the problems we're going to be where all the red tape was going to be so you have to this is the starting point but what it becomes then is this this thing that you then you know take out there into the world and so you know, in my business I've I've used this idea of simple, effective, affordable small business marketing for years really has a tagline but but the essence of what we do is install the duct tape marketing system and that you know that that line of install a marketing system is such a kind of interrupt for people that it causes people to really say you know tell me tell me more about that but then our kind of core positioning and everything that we do is circuits is really kind of comes around this idea of being very practical and so those elements then you know we don't just say them I mean they live and everything they do they every consideration for a product or you know, even a blogger post that we're going to write is going to be informed, you know, with that idea. Yeah, just to be clear, green machine was referring. Your example. This is going to marketing lover there's, a conversation happening in the chat room, going back over these quotes, and a lot of people are sharing their exact examples. We have another one coming in from festive fanfare, who creates balloon decor and she's working on a fun, depending theme, to help people with their bloom to corps and make their events look more spectacular. People are applying this all that they're doing here.