Badass Habits and Making Them Stick with Jen Sincero
I have a philosophy that I think is important, and it relies almost entirely around habits. Habits are the things that actually help you transform your life. And to that end makes me very happy to welcome to the show today. Jen Sancerre. Oh, you're not familiar with Jen's work? A soon as I hold this book up, you will, because this thing is sold, I think. Three million copies. Jensen chairs Number one New York Times Bestselling author, success coach and motivational cattle prod her words, not mine. Who's helped millions of people transform their personal and professional lives. Her first book, You Are. That was the first book. It was her third book, but her first one that went mega Um, you are a badass. How to stop doubting your greatness and start living an awesome life. Uh, that's where I first came into touch with her work. She's inspirational. She's to the point. Her voice, her creative voice as an author is hilarious. So to the point, um, this, you know, the tough love humor combo ...
is something I really respond to, and I know that's part of at least the reason that so many people have gravitated or work. We're excited. Talk about all kinds of things, like transforming your life, this idea of you being a badass, what's required, how you can dump the narratives that you have in your life. Maybe from a very, very young age even, you know, pre you remembering them, rewrite your story to help you do the things that you want. And we're also here to talk about her new book, which is called Badass habits. Cultivate the awareness, boundaries and daily upgrade you need to make them stick. So without further ado, it makes me very happy to welcome Jensen show to this show. No, Jen, thank you so much for being on this show. Welcome. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. New book time, right? Oh, yeah. How long you've been working on this one? Oh, gosh. That question perpetually. Actually, I worked on this longer than most. A couple of months in the actual writing, but, you know, many, many like, about a year and thinking about it and not writing it. E know that phase two. I know it. Well, um, thanks for so much for being on this show. You've been, um stand out to me and those in my community for a long time. Um, starting with your original that you are a badass, which I don't know how Maney millions of copies Europe to now probably somewhere two or three or maybe more eso first. Congratulations. And second, I want to start way back at the beginning of time before you were a number one New York Times bestseller And when you were stuck because for so many people, that is a primary region that they're watching or listening it's not just about inspiration. It's about actually moving forward and taking taking action, which for me, it was a foundational principle, for you are a badass, But take us back so that we know that you're human and to a time when you were stuck before all the success And what made you write the book and get moving? Well, the beginning of time. Uh, well, you know, I like a lot of people had some areas of my life together and other areas where a total train wreck. So I you know, I was in a band and I was living by the beach and I was having a great time. But the money thing for me was really the big, prickly, insurmountable thorn bush, you know? And so, you know, by the I hit 40 and I was living in a garage in an alley in Venice Beach on D. I was just, you know, it was always such a drama with me, and I was like, Seriously, this is the best I could do. Like Jenison, Charo. Like I knew I had all this energy inside of me, and I knew there was all this stuff I wanted to do, and and I was just socking at the money things. So, um, that's when I decided to really just make it. Ah, project stat. Like, really do everything I knew how to do to get my money poop in a scoop. So, you know, I started reading money book, you know, books about money and wealth consciousness. And I started going to super cheesy seminars on How to Be a Millionaire. And I hired a coach, and I just I took it really, really, really seriously. And I did everything I knew how to do. So that was sort of the first step of crawling out of my whole And what were you so being in a band? Was that your source of income? Because there's so many people right now. One of the things I think is the most misunderstood and culture is how to actually transition. Right? You're doing one thing. Maybe it's something that sucks. It's the thing that's got you stuck, whether you're making money off the band or your, you know, waiting tables or so what was? You're fine. We understand that the financial picture was doom and gloom. But what were you actually doing to even to rent that garage? And you know how? Help paint a picture for us and go from waiting tables or whatever it was that you were doing to what, you know, toward what you aspired. Yeah, I was a freelance writer, So why would two things I was doing pretty much anything I could do but fall before I moved to Venice, I worked at a record company, and I did ad copy so I would write like Ozzy Osbournes. New album rips right off. So I was an ad copywriter and I was doing that now freelance in California when I moved there and It was very, um you know, not steady work, Shall we say So that was super Trickle E. And then I would just get any other freelance writing gigs I could get my hands on, just, you know, writing articles or, you know, writing, writing anything. But as a lot of freelance writers know, you spent a lot of time hustling. And for me, writing takes. It's pretty painful and takes me a long time. So when I really did the math, I was getting paid, like $2 an hour between the hustling on the torturing myself over the writing and doing the actual writing. So that was not at all a good plan on getting rich. And then the other thing I was doing is I sort of stumbled into this. Women's entrepreneur pra Nouriel groups. It was called Ladies Who Launch and I became a facilitator and it was basically me and 10 women in a room and we would sort of brainstorm their ideas on how to get their businesses off the ground, which was super fun, and it's sort of how I got my toe in the door to be a life coach. But but it. Also, I made, like maybe $1000 a month doing it. So it was really pretty grim enough enough to pay the rent in the garage. Probably not much more than that. Well, part of what I know about your work. And again, I'm very excited to talk about your new book, which is around habits, Um, but before we get toe habits, I wanna establish some foundations of what my experience of your work is. And again, the people who are listening and watching out there. They identify as creators and entrepreneurs and people that want to take responsibility to transform their personal and professional lives and at the core of so many issues. For me and the people in this community and others like us, is the excuse excuses. And, you know, you talk a lot about, especially in your early work about excuses and about stories, and these are stories that were tell that we tell ourselves and most of which are not based in fact, but based in self loathing or frustration, or, you know, to the point where you were stuck in the garage. So I'm wondering if you can explain in your in your the gents and Cheryl philosophy. What role do stories and excuses play for keeping us stuck? And and then how do we get out of it? Well, you know, this is why we always say that awareness is the key to transformation. Right, Because you've gotta we get so stuck in our stories and so stuck in our excuses that we don't even realize we're doing it right. We take them as fact and is the truth of my situation. So, you know, for me back in the garage, I was like, I suck it making money. I'm in my forties. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. It's just not in the cards for me and I. It wasn't until I, like, had, like, crack open my brain to to see outside of that story, because the other thing is, we get really attached to the these story's even when they suck and when they're not making our lives fun and productive because there's familiarity in them. And that's when you know this whole thing about getting outside of your comfort zone. It really is about getting outside of your familiarity zone because a lot of times that familiarity zone is not comfortable. You know, the garage was not that comfy, so we fear getting, um, going into the unknown. It's the it's the great terror of all human existence is the unknown. Even when the unknown could be leaps and bounds better than the known, we tend to cling to the known. And that's where these stories and excuses come in handy is they keep us safely tucked away in these known spaces. So really huge. First step in changing your life is busting yourself on the stories you're telling yourself that you've really taken on as the truth. It's a really interesting and very sobering thing to do because it gives you all the power. You know, if you create with the story, you can create a new story. What's the first step in doing that? But I guess the second step, if the first step is awareness on I have the both benefit and the dubious, Um, experience of my wife is a mindfulness and meditation coach and teacher. So this this concept of awareness I'm asking, asking for a friend, as they say, Um, like, what's what's this? What's the second step because I think, you know, And again, this is where I have heard on experienced and, you know, seeing so many people like. Okay, great. So I'm not telling myself the right story. I'm aware that the living in a garage is not where I want to be. And I'm aware that I'm I am foundation Aly capable of changing. And if not me, who? And then you look at all of the things you could possibly do, and it's paralysis through analysis. And, you know, I wanna I wanna not waste my time because I've wasted, you know, fill in the blank years, and I wanna I wanna make my next action. Perfect. And we know that that's not true. But what helped you? What if the first one is awareness? Whether steps two and three. Okay, so and I want to actually start with Step one quickly. Um, how you get awareness of what your story is is to really listen to the words that fly out of your mouth and listen. You know it. Also listen to what your friends say. You tend to hang out with people who are at the same level. So if you and your friends, you know, for me, we were always bitching about how expensive everything was and how hard it was to make money. And for me, I discovered back in the day that, like the number one phrase that I used, like a million times a day waas, I can't afford it. And so the specifics are the things that will always set you free. So having this vague idea that I wanna make more money and I want to be able to do more things, that's very vague, but we've got to get into specifics. So the first step is to become aware of what your specific story is and what the words and thoughts are around your number one complaint. So get those specifics down. So my mind was, I can't afford it. So once I busted myself on that and once I made the hell bent for glory decision to get over myself and to start making some money, I did everything I knew how to do. So this is the other thing that's so important. Remember, is like you got where you are by doing what you know how to do so. And that's all you can do right? Because when you're transforming your life, you're going somewhere that you ain't never been before, so you're not how to do it. But the universe demands that you do everything you know how to do So for me in the garage, in my little sloppy life, what I knew how to do was Thio read books on money. I was like, Well, I should probably educate myself my money. So I started reading books about money. I started going to money making seminars like anything with a dollar sign of the word money. I was there, I didn't care. I don't care what it waas so through these books and through these seminars, I started learning about the stories and I busted myself on I can't afford it and one of the first steps I took and this sounds so woo and so stupid. But it was a game changer for me and for a lot of my clients moving forward. Waas writing this mantra. And so I wrote a mantra against my number one story, which was I can't afford it, and I'm actually in badass habits. I lay out this whole procedure for writing a mantra. It's not that hard, but you just take the specific words of I can't afford it and you flip it around to something that calls up excitement and gives you the feeling of possibility and terror. And this is ridiculous. Hello, my So for me, my opposite mantra was money flows to me easily and freely. So I went from I can't afford it to money flows to me easily freely because my main objections around money were It's gonna be really hard for me to make it because I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Um, it's just gonna be a shove and a, you know, impossible. So flowing to me easily and freely seemed impossible and super exciting. So the first step for me was this mantra, and we'll keep going. I think I interrupted you there. There was a little bit of a leg. Yeah, I just I don't I mean, I could talk forever. No, I love This is like my This is my You know, this show has been 10 years are 11 years running now, and the concept of long form is like if I can keep you talking, then everybody who's listening and watching winds. So keep talking. Dangerous statement here we owe. But what I want to say to you about about this mantra stuff is we love to be right. Human beings love to be right, and and so when I was saying I can't afford it, I didn't realize it, but I was doing everything in my power to prove that that my reality about I can't afford it was right. You know, anybody who challenges being like Well, you know, Jen, you're pretty smart college. You've got a lot of of ideas and talents. You know, you could change like I can't change it. I'm in my forties. I'm living in a garage, you know? I mean tuna out of a can every day, you know, I want I was grouchy and and I wanted to prove that I was right, Right. So this is the whole ego getting in our way. So this is something to really watch out for. And this is the beautiful thing about the mantra is once I made the decision to change and I decided that money flows to me easily and freely was a new mantra. I still wanted to be right. But now I was proving that money flows to me easily and freely. So every time I want to say I can't afford it, I would make myself say money flows to me easily and freely. And I started building the foundation off my reality on that instead. So what that did Waas. It forced me to find ways that money was flowing to me easily and freely. So I mean, in the beginning, it was like I found a dollar on the ground. I got a freelance kick out of nowhere. You know, it was definitely picking up scraps, but the other thing it did was it opened my mind opportunities that were always there. But I was so busy that I proving I can't afford that I didn't see them, right, So that's when I'm talking about you don't know how Thio do the things you're going to do in your transformed life because you've never done them before. You do what you know how to do, but you stay open to possibilities, possibilities there possibilities like waving its arm in the air, being like yo, but because you're so busy proving your old story When you start proving a new story, you open yourself up. So one of the other main first things I did was hire a coach who specialized in women entrepreneurs making money, right? So that was that was me to a T. That was exactly who I waas and this coach charged literally one third of my annual income, which honestly wasn't that much of the time. But for me, it was epic, right? So had I been proving I can't afford it, I wouldn't have even noticed that opportunity. I would have immediately gone to I can't afford it and stayed struggling. But because money flows to me easily, freely. And because I was so hellbent to make change when I met her and I realized that she could help me instead of looking for an excuse as to why I couldn't hire her, I started looking for ways to come up with that money. That's it. There's But there's something that's so powerful in there, and I'm I wanna hinge this next little exchange we have around What? What were you saying to yourself? Was it on Lee? That money flows to me, uh, quickly. And what was it something and easily. Uh, yes. Uh, when you take the leap to hire the coach, you're terrified. All those things was there. Clearly there's risk involved. Clearly, there's fear involved. Clearly there, you know you're playing against your biology, your negative bias, your 40 years of conditioning. You're playing through all these things. Was it simply the mantra that gave you the courage and the power and the willingness to overcome it? Or where there's some was there some other, you know, work or attributes or stuff at play? Because I'm I'm trying to put myself in the heads of, you know, however many thousands of people listening to this right now and there, there. Oh, my God, that's such a bold move. I don't have that boldness within me or, you know, it goes back to this story part, but help us help solve that problem for anyone listening question. That's a great, great question. So no, it wasn't just the mantra. It was the decision. So I had really made the decision, could change my life. And this is, you know, I talk about what you are about us, about how ah lot of people make these fake decisions where we decide until it gets too scary or too expensive or you risk looking like an idiot, right? That's not a decision. That's that's, you know, staying in your comfort zone and, you know, half asking it when you make a decision to change your life. If you are not scared out of your mind, you are doing something wrong. Absolutely. Because you have Thio. You have to scare the crap out of yourself because the unfamiliar is terrifying for us, right? But it's also it's funny. It's like that terror and that excitement or two sides of the exact same coin. It almost feels the same, right? So that the feeling you're going for so you know, taking huge risks. They you'll know you're going in the right direction when you're equally as excited as terrified. So I was equally as excited and terrified when I met this woman and believe me like I put it on a credit card. I don't even know how I got another credit card, but I just put it all in this credit card and then, like 15 minutes later, I called her back and begged her for my money uh, she's like, this is probably the most important money you will ever spend in your life. And I'm such a nerd and such a straight a student. And I was so scared. And I hate being in debt that I literally just I did every single solitary thing she told me to do, and luckily she was a great coach, but she made me Oh my God, she Every day I had to do something I dreaded doing, but it kept pushing me and it kept stretching me. It really is. It's It's like building any other muscle, right? Like when you go to the you have to push yourself, you have to stretch yourself. You have to go every day, and you have to just keep upping it. And that's all this is, is just a muscle. I love that the you're I'm calling it your philosophy because I'm thinking about your entire body work now, rather than one book or the other book. Just the idea that the decision get there. There's wanting, and then there's theorizing is conceptualizing. And then there's actually deciding and whether you know it's an addict who's trying to get off of their particular addiction or, in your case, the stories. Um, one thing that I feel like is, uh that you do a nice job of talking about which is not popular in pop culture is to talk about are sort of family of origin and a lot of the narratives that that everyone walks around with, You know, um, if you could if there was a poster or a digital readout of everything that you're saying yourself for the world to see, I think we would we would be scared because there's a lot we're all carrying Ah, lot of baggage around. And there's a line that I remember very clearly from. I don't remember which book, but that you've said it is. We're all fucked up. And it's not our fault that we have this family of origin because you couldn't. We can't choose where we come from, but it is your fault if you decide to do nothing about it. Yeah, So where you talk us through that Because there are people right now who know that they have. You know, we've all got issues as statements it shares. But so maney it goes back to the stories that we tell ourselves and the being stuck is that that I can't do that because of you know, my former partner or my parents or my fill in the blank. And this you do such a good job of shifting ownership, too. The individual, you know, it was really interesting when I started doing this work. I kept reading the same things over and over and over. You know, it's like pay attention to your words, thoughts and beliefs and shift your focus. And and I remember thinking, Come on like I cannot have spent the 1st 40 years of my life struggling and that's all I have to do. I really I feel like we try to make it such a much bigger drama than it is because there's another great excuse, right? It has to be really hard. It has to be really mysterious, and it really isn't. I mean, I'm not saying you don't have to work hard. I'm not saying you don't have to take big risks because a lot of time to dio, but it's there's not that much to it, and one of the best things that you can do is jar yourself is to become the Watcher, right? To pull away from from your quote unquote reality that you did get from your parents. You know, you you are completely dependent on them when you're little and so everything they teach you and show you and model for you becomes the truth. And it has to be the truth, because if they're not grounded, you're screwed right there. It's really your lifeline, Thio. The most basic survival. So this is a very primal thing that we have to go through to detach from what our blueprint was from our family. Right? Because if that's not true, holy crap like we have absolutely nothing to stand on. So this is why people spend entire lifetimes, you know, withering away and realities. They hate that. Don't make them happy, because at least it's familiar. So it's It's that hot spot. It just be like, all right, I'm going to risk it. I'm going to get on totally unknown, shaky ground and create the reality that I desire instead of the one that I was handed because when I was handed isn't working for me. So it really is that decision in that agreement to get super uncomfortable, but you're already uncomfortable. That's sort of the cost. Like if you don't do it, you're sitting in the wet pant load of the of the life that you were handed right? So you choose. Yeah, it's like a lesser of two evils, but it's so hard to frame that when you're in that sort of mindset of lack. And I think that's why the awareness piece you talked about in your words, thoughts and actions or, you know, there's a lot of people say you wanna, you know, figure out what you prioritize like it's your bank account and your calendar, and that will tell you, um, sort of what head space you're in. So A Z, we think about how toe change. Um, and this, you know, is related to your new book. Um, badass habits cultivate the awareness, boundaries and daily upgrades you need to make them stick. If we took a flyer and we had, it doesn't matter if we have success or failure on that, just the first step of getting unstuck. What I always think of when the word habit comes is like, how do you make something automatic? Because doing something once does, not an automatic make. So, you know, the the the concept of breaking free or jumping out of the pair of the plane with the parachute or whatever, you know, ridiculous analogy we can put forward. It doesn't actually equal making it stick. And if especially if the first you know, your first foray to getting uncomfortable, you eat a shit sandwich, you know that that you're not motivated or you're dis incentivized to do it again. And yet you realize that, you know, just like the gym analogy, the event, you know, working your muscle you can't actually get unstuck. You can't actually make something permanent without it. You can't create the success or the dream that you have for yourself without some sort of foundational habit. So is this just more of the same? Or is there Is there something that unlocks this for us in your new book? Well, I do go deeper and do a couple things that I just touch on in the other books on bond What I tried to do with my habit book like, you know, there's no lack of great books on how to form new habits out there, in my opinion, but what I wanted to do was to bring in a lot of things that I felt like all those books didn't go deeply enough into which I actually feel like are the most important parts on that would be your identity. It's actually the groundwork beneath the action. So I think a lot of times like when you go on a diet, it's all about what you're eating and exercising and all that and that is obviously very important. But the mindset behind it is far more important because that's what's gonna make it stick. So I do a lot of mindset work and I also put in, Um, it's almost like a course because I feel like reading about all the ways Thio shift your habits is one thing, but actually doing it as you're reading the book really wanted Thio people to get results and to put it into practice while they were reading. So those are the sort of two things that I hopefully, um bringing that will help people really stick to these habits. But this this piece of identifying as the person you want to become before you get there I think is so crucial. And it's something I talked about a lot because, you know, there's always that thing that they say when people win the lottery, you know, people win the lottery and they almost always go right back to where they started before they had the lottery money they want right, and the reason for that is because their outward reality changed. They suddenly now have asked loads of cash, but they still identify is somebody who is broke if they were broke when they won the money. And that identity, um, informs all their habits. So if you shift your identity, your habits, you have a much better chance of sticking with your habits. So, for example, I love cigarettes. It is literally, really one of my favorite things, and I plan on beginning smoking again when I'm 85. So it's really given me something, really. The dangling carrot. I can't wait, but I haven't touched a cigarette. It's like 30 years and for me, and I had tried quitting a million times over and over. You know, I made bets with my friends. You know, I end up paying many kegs to people who I promised I was gonna quit Pagan kegs. I like it. You're gonna show up with, like, 22 kegs, pick up the entire state of Colorado drunk for years. But but it wasn't. First of all, then it wasn't until I made the decision, like the really hard core decision that okay, enough of this shit like it's just it's so paint, you know, you're a couple of things working for me. One was I hate quitting like it's so hard to quit. Even if you quit for, like, two months and you start smoking again, you gotta quit again. Like I just I hated that process on. I also hated having something have control over me. Like I couldn't sit through a whole movie because by the end, I was Jones and so bad that I had to leave to go have a cigarette, and that drove me nuts. So those were sort of my two and also, you know, basically voluntarily killing myself, and it's disgusting. But eso I had sort of my specifics down on why I wanted to quit and the and the emotion behind it. And then what I did was I shifted my identity from somebody who is a smoker who is trying to quit to a non smoker. So and that little shift was epic because when you're still identifying as somebody who's a smoker, but you're trying to quit, you're still negotiating with. Well, maybe I'll just have a drag of a cigarette or, you know, it's New Year's Eve. I'm gonna be drinking a lot. I'm just gonna smoke sniper tomorrow, I'm gonna quit. There's always that negotiation because you still identify as somebody who smokes. When you stop identifying as that person and I identify as somebody who's healthy and takes care of their body, you don't even enter into those negotiations. It's like it's like negotiating when you wake up in the morning, if you're gonna have a bottle of vodka for breakfast. If that's not your identity, it doesn't even come in to your radar. And so this identity pieces so huge because it knocks at that negotiation is where we all fall flat on our faces. When you're lying in bed and it's freezing out, you're negotiating whether you're going to go to the gym or not, or whether you're negotiating whether you're gonna eat that entire cherry pie. You know, it's all if you don't identify, you don't negotiate and it makes it. It's just honestly, far more than anything you can set up in the physical world. That identity will get you where you want to go so much faster and help you stay there. I completely understand. Identify agree like this, the the like who you see yourself as is perhaps the most valuable asset. And that, you know, brings us directly to mindset, which is where I think the bulk of your work is. And, you know, as you said, there's so many great books out there on habits, and most of them have to do with, you know, setting up your external inputs as favorable to you. So you take in your case, do not have cigarettes around or change your group of people that you hang out with or those air. I think that is commonly understood and and certainly effective. But this what other aspects of the mind set piece go beyond identity and is in an area of which you said you've I think you said you've done a ton of work, so help us understand. I'm also to me, mindset is the most important thing. Because if you look at the world's top of farmers in literally any category golf, the chest toe a topiary gardeners like the way that they talk to themselves. The the mental fitness is clearly the thing that separates the best in the world, right? What? What what makes one you know, tennis player better than the other its's. They can hit the ball roughly the same speed with same accuracy. So for you, What what other aspects besides identity are, you know, Are you do you find are critical and at play in changing your life? I wrote a ton in this book also about boundary setting. Andi. I think that that is sort of very overlooked in my experience aspect of a lot of this mindset work, Um, and especially when you're actively, you know, taking the plunge to transform your life. This boundary piece is so important and its boundaries with, you know, like showing up for your own your sweet self and making it clear to those around you that you need the space and time and encouragement that you need to change your life. And it's interesting because once again, you know we have this thes, you know, horses that were dragging around from our childhoods and all of the input that we get in that you know, we are bad person. If we set boundaries or it's not safe to set boundaries or, you know there's and there's lots of different kinds of boundaries. I think that we think a lot about the one where we just say yes to everything. But there's also saying no to things that you want to say yes to. And there's also being Merck early, enmeshed in other people's lives where you're trying to control them or you're letting them control you. So there's there's all sorts of lovely ways you can screw yourself over with the boundary thing, but but I think it really again is clarity and specifics. Set everybody free and on when it comes to outlining where you and and the rest of the world begins when it comes to change your life and again, it's so simple. It really is just getting clear on what your needs are and getting clear on why you're grouchy and resentful and passive aggressive. It's probably because you have crappy boundaries. So getting clear on what would serve you and they're by lift everybody else up. Um, is another huge mindset piece that I think is super important. Thio. I love the word from the subtitle, The book again for those who are, uh, if it's ambiguous, that all retained about Jen's new book, Badass Habits cultivate the awareness, boundaries and daily upgrades you need to make them stick. I love the concept of an upgrade because it's not a it's not a I'm in left field, and I need to go into the bleachers or I'm, you know, in Africa. And I need to go to Canada. An upgrade. It's like I'm in Row nine and I need to get to real five. It's not. It's sort of there's Ah, nice. It's a compartmentalize, um, mindset, if you will, around what's possible. How intentional, you know, was that word choice and can you explain? You know how you approach that in not just in the book, but in life so that these things are, you know, that transformation is more easily achievable. I did not think of the way you just articulated it when I was writing it and I love that. So I'm taking yours. You said it? Yes. Um, you know, I wanted the reason. Because I do. That is a huge, huge part of that book is the bite sized chunks that I break it down into. So, you know, we've been talking a lot about mindset and all that stuff, but I also give you the daily tasks. Thio put these pieces in place along with the mindset, and I hopefully do all of it in really manageable pieces. Because throughout my life, as a person trying to get their act together and also as a coach, I am convinced the number one killer of all dreams is overwhelmed. You know, you just you start your like, How the hell am I gonna lose £50 and get a six pack on my chest like it could seem so impossible. So if you But if you break it down into bite sized chunks, anything is possible. So I love that definition of upgrade. And when I put that in the in the subtitle I wanted to make it clear that there were daily upgrades in this book that it's almost a course like you get the you get all the juicy mindset, how to in the first half of the book. And then there's a 21 day upgrade, of course, that you take in the second half of the book, and now I've forgotten your question. But no, you're nailing it. It's just like the concept of an upgrade. And to me it was like proximity and possibility. I think the way that you just what I took away from your answer there, is that it's it's sort of a more emphasis on the daily habit, because if you're doing something daily, it it almost by definition, it's not what I'm gonna be in 10 years. It's what I'm going to do today and tomorrow and the next day. For 21 days, I was fascinated with the structure. I think it's a cool structure, Um, for a book. And speaking of overwhelmed right now, people are saying, or lots of people may maybe saying or have thought like Oh, my God, the concept, even the words like transform. I had that in the title of my book as well transform your life. It just sounds like Oh shit, I gotta put a backpack of stuff on and climb a mountain. And when I get there, I got to do 1000 push ups, and, you know, and I might not even make it versus this concept of bite size habit oriented. Um, and, you know, if overwhelmed is one of the biggest obstacles, I just I want to give you a shout out for the structure of the book, which, as I'm a structure, I'm a creator. Eso I had the crazy brain, but crazy brain without a little bit of structure is, to me is a recipe for not well articulated thought. And I love the structure. So nice moves there. How do you think it, uh, it manages the overwhelming is just because you just got a list of shit to do in front of you for the day and we're gonna manage overwhelmed through getting up and just, you know, instruction one instruction to instruction three or I I'm I'm putting words in your mouth now, but tell me how you thought about it. Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I really, um you know, I'm I'm pretty impatient. That is definitely my, you know, quest in life here I just I'm not a patient person. I'm from New York. I want my you know, whatever eso when I write, I really try to be economical with my right because I think, you know, especially in the second half of the book. I want people to get her done. I don't think they need to read 20 pages per day to get the information they need. I just want to give it to them as quickly and Pittle pithily. So we're we're going with it, okay as possible. So, yeah, I did that very intentionally was really try to boil it down to get the information they need to Then take the action that you need to take and just take it one day at a time. You know, one day at a time is a really beautiful philosophy. Okay? I don't know if you know what what role? This still plays for you, but I'm going back to some of your earlier work and the role of journaling. It just seems like the more we look around the world or those who are invested in helping, you know, transformed themselves or live a life that's inspiring to them. tap into their dreams. Whatever the phrase is, just seems like writing stuff down is has value. And I'm wondering, you know, has your I'm thinking again, back to your Ogi book. You're a badass. The original it, you know, journaling the role. It played a significant role. And I'm wondering, Has that transformed for you over time? Are you doubling down on it? Are you divorcing yourself from that? How? Where does that hold space in your brain today? I'm sitting here thinking, Should I lie? No. Or even if it if it if you've moved on. And now it's just about a daily practice and Germany is not part of that. Like on Look, I advocate writing and I didn't write today, so you know, it's interesting. My relationship with writing is talk about drama, but I I will say that I'm a huge advocate of journaling 100% and I have clients who have to do it every day where they just spew and you know it. Totally. I I think seeing your thoughts down on a page is profoundly helpful and and very transformative, like you can start channeling things that you don't even know you felt that when you start getting free form and then you look at your like Oh, my God, I didn't even realize that was going on, so I I stand behind journaling 100%. Whether or not I personally do it every day is a different story. But I will tell you when I'm really working through something and I'm you know, in that space where I'm done and I'm making a decision, I journal my ass off. So I'm much again. I'm much more of a sprint runner. Like I write my books in a couple of months, I do. And then I go backpacking for a couple of months like my big on off person. That's my balance. And I guess it's the same with journaling. But I you know, I believe in the power of writing and I e I have found that almost everything I write comes truth, and that is this sort of witchy weirdness. So I'm just always been like I gotta keep no, keep talking. I want we need the witchy weirdness. Keep going. What do you mean by that? That's a big statement. So when I well, you know, going way back My very first book, Don't Sleep with your Drummer. I had written a story about being in a rock band that I was getting screwed over by the record company in the story in a million different ways. And my publisher ended up screwing me over in the exact same way and end up using the exact same words that I had the record producer used with the band like it was making my hair stand up and with you are badass. I had another really unfortunate thing with the publisher, and I had to be such a badass. Like I had to take the biggest scary sleep but ended up very long story. But it almost I had a book deal, and then we had a huge creative conflict, and I had to yank that we couldn't find common ground. I was like, All right, I'm gonna give you your advanced back, and I'm going to self publish this thing. And I was terrified because I knew myself and I was like, I'm not interested in being a self publisher. I was so depressed, but I had to do it because I just we just could not agree, and I wasn't gonna put my name on something I wasn't proud of. And I had to be a total badass, and I had to do everything that I had written about that damn book. And then we ended up working it out. And with this last with badass habits. Such a crazy story. But I went to a psychic recently, and I've been having a lot of trouble with my right leg. I just my hip. I might need a hip replacement. There's all this stuff going on with my leg, but I've also been like, Okay, so what are my beliefs about flexibility and moving forward? And, you know, I'm doing all the Wu stuff on. It's like, I'm gonna hire this psychic and just see if she could help me sort of figure out what I'm emotionally contributing to this pain and my right side. And so she does this whole thing where she's like talking to the ancestors before we start talking and she's Oh, yeah, and this is all over the phone, so I don't know who she is. She doesn't know who I am on then, While she's talking to the ancestors, she's like, Come on on, Ben, you know, whatever. Then she breaks their connection and she's talking to me. And then she's like, Okay, well, now I'm gonna tell you that thing they said that I thought was so funny. And I was like, What was it? She goes, It's actually your hip is fucked, but one of the reasons that it's going down your whole leg is because you have a bad ass. It's your glute muscles. It's not the knee muscle, the near the thigh, it's your badass on. I was like, Oh my God, I've been writing books called Badass for almost 10 years, and now it has come true. So Wow, take that for what it is. But now I'm like, rolling around on tennis balls and all. It's all happening in the glutes today. It's on the atthe. Uh, no, but I wanna keep on on this thread a little, but you talked about earlier, said the words Woo and you, you know, you've made some subtle comments about whether or not you know this is It seems like you're saying I'm not sure this is viable or what, but there's clearly and there's something at work there, right? And you know, someone who I choose to pay attention to. Coincidence like that, For example, versus rejected. I think life's more interesting when we do that. But to be crystal like the, um, science is, you know, is starting to understand the role that you know, postulating and manifesting and visualizing. For example, very tons and tons of studies for the the one that is most commonly cited is the free throws, the basketball free throws there a group of people who shot free throws every day. There's a group who didn't shoot free throws every day but just visualized it. And then there's a group that did both, and the group that shot that did not shoot a free throw were better than the people who Onley shot free throws every day. So clearly visualization. And, um, you know, whether you couch it in quantum physics, are you know Dr Jody spends or wherever wherever you're couching it, This is a thing for you, right? And it's a thing for you, Jen, and how, like, what is your relationship with this? I don't know if it's spirituality or quantum physics or however you personally wanna assign it, But you've I don't want you to discount that stuff because I also have learned to pay attention to it. I think it's valuable. What's your role? What's What's the relationship with those? Those thoughts? Clearly you call the psychic, right? So there's something there. Oh, yeah, Well, I'm glad you're busting me on my snarkiness that I still have around it, even though I 100% subscribe and I call myself a which I believe in all of it. I have seen it work over and over, but I'm still just the tiniest. You know what I think it is, and this is completely I don't know. I feel like it's it's got unfortunate brand. You know? I live in Santa Fe now. It's like it's a little much, so I'm still you have graded from Venice. The Venice psychics, too. However, I have totally drunk the Kool Aid and I'm just a guilty. So I am going to knock it off right now. Happy embracing my wound is, um yeah, You know what? It's interesting. I think I don't know when this is going live, but I'm assuming the pandemic is still gonna be happening. for sure. I think we're doing your your book drops on December 1st. So we're trying to go live in your book week because we know that that's super important for people to buy books to support authors in their launch week. So we're gonna try and time with that. But yes, the pandemic will be raging. Yes. Okay, the raging pandemic. So I have personally found because of the way my incredibly blessed and charmed life just as I live it now, um, everything is slowed down. You know, some people have 10 times more responsibilities and kids at home, and I'm not pretending that it's not happening for people, but for me, I have found because everything has slowed down so much and because I'm so much less distracted by going out, traveling and doing all the things that I usually dio. The veil is so much dinner for me. And I am having you know, the things that I think about and visualized and say out loud and write down manifest so quickly it's making my hair stand up And I'm ah, little grabby about this time because I feel like it's so juicy and I really want to, uh, strengthen my muscle with it and and deep in my relationship with that flow. And, uh, it's it's been just and, you know, it's always available to us, but I feel like right now it's almost like I'm living in a monastery because I'm in the middle of nowhere and I've got so little going on. You know, I am getting ready for my book launch and all that stuff, but comparatively speaking, everything's calmed way down, and, uh, it's it's really exciting are there? All right, so you're give me 11 more layer on that if I can push on it, That is, like so you described. It is when you believe it and you're reluctant to a minute. But now you're okay. Cool. I'm over that. Today is the day, um, can you share some? Like, I think talking to a psychic is one thing. Um, what are some other tools that you use specifically to reinforce it? Or do you do you use none and just agree that the universe is is working for us, you know, not against us like, are there some practices that you have that aren't in your books? Or if you were scared to admit them, that you may be willing to admit to us today e juicy. No, it could be back. I think most of stuff is banal, right? But like I visualized every day or like, what are some of the tools? If you employ any to tap into that, you call yourself a witch. You like, What are the practices? Because you've got plenty of names for all this stuff. Woo which all these things, But what are the like? What air? The practices that you engage in so tap into it. Good old meditation is by far the best one for me personally, and I do think journaling is a form of meditation. But just sitting quietly and getting into that that blank face and then when I'm not actually actively meditating, calling back that blank space as often as I could be aware of it during the day, you know when you know when I'm having a conversation with somebody or when something's happening to me. Thio, really try and step aside again. Be that water and and get out of my reaction mode and get into a responding mode where I'm catching myself in the knee jerk that you know, the pre program thing, as opposed to getting out of victim mode of the situation and responding and, you know, not taking everything personally and just having a more playful relationship with the environment that I find myself in. If that makes sense, yeah, I guess it's mostly the stepping aside and becoming the water instead of having the fight in the sandbox with whatever is going on. That's such a powerful thing, like the further for those folks who don't meditate, that is long been sort of hashed out or, uh, witnessed or shared about meditation. I'm personally tm guy, um, but they're what Jen's talking about for those who this might be new is one of the aspects of meditation that it's like a muscle that strengthens is when something bad happens. Someone cuts you off in traffic. There's it's like time slows down, and rather than you like giving the finger to the person who cut you off, you know there's this. There's a gap that allows you to choose how to respond rather than react. And I describe it is like the world happening in slow motion I don't have the answer. If I'm just quiet for still for a second, I have a thoughtful answer, and that makes us better. So I think that's incredible. That space that you that meditation creates, Is there anything else? I have a terrible feeling that I cut you off just a little bit there because of the lag. No, I mean and I also sitting and visualizing, you know, really getting clear on the specifics again. That's it's all about specifics. Where when you when you've got an issue or a problem or something, you want to heal just vision. Let's take my leg like spending time sending light to my leg and visualizing my ass you know, whatever is going on but taking the time to visualize, um, what I desire And the nice thing about that is not only does it help you, um you know, help manifest it coming into physical Asian, but it also pulls up objections. So if you're visualizing something that has always been hard for you that you've tried a million times and failed and you're like all right, I'm gonna visualized because I'm gonna get down with this movie stuff. I'm gonna make it happen for myself, and you start getting into the specifics and visualizing it and it feels great and you're sailing along. Then all of a sudden, like the monster of O, as if you could lose £20 you've done a trillion times. It always comes back, like all of the doubt, fear and worry and your past proof comes up. So what a gift. Because then you now have specific beliefs and words and thoughts that you can now use to your advantage. Because until you know the specifics off what your personal objections are, you're you're still a victim, a victim to them. So it it gives you that awareness. Love it, love it. Mhm. So let's get one more topic. I want to go down the path of you around and and the concept of habits is obviously it z the source of your new book. You've talked about how the ecosystem sort of you felt like it was incomplete, which is one of the reasons you wrote the book. And if what do you think your contribution to that discourse around habits is What's your your largest contribution? And you know, ultimately, this is the thing that makes I believe, um is going to make people want to buy this book versus something that hasn't stuck for them in the past. So what's sort of the nutshell of the approach that you're crafting here? You know, to me, Well, I'll save my commentary for after just what's What's the What's the pitch? Well, I feel like Can I have three? It's your show, Jen. You got as many as you want. You can have 38 if you want. Okay. So, first to I feel like we touched upon where the daily deeply into the mind set stuff in the first half and stress how important that is and give people tools to shift their identity and set good boundaries and all that. And then the second thing is the course where I boil everything down into bite sized pieces. I give you actual steps to take one easy day to time so that you can start implementing this stuff instead of just reading the whole book and then being like, great, Now I gotta start this habit. The third thing that I think I bring to this stuff is a different voice where it's got memoir and it's got humor and hopefully, ah, lot of humiliating, relatable stories that you know really help you see yourself and give you hope that you can overcome stuff, too, because the people I'm writing about and which is usually myself, I've overcome it too. But just to make it more of, ah, of a relatable read, as opposed to something that might feel a bit more scientific or how to kind of thing. Your voice is my favorite thing about your writing. Obviously, it's laden with, like, really practical, tangible tactical stuff. But to find myself laughing out loud and to be willing to buy anything that you put out in the world because it's like it's laced with humor and humility and you know all of that. I think ultimately, that's probably why we gravitate to any artist right. We like their voice, whether it's visually or or maybe there's other reasons, but certainly for me, that is something that is so stand out about you and your work. So I want to take a second and personally thank you for that. And my last question is for not just the writers out there because this is about writing. But for all of the creators and the entrepreneurs talk to us about your creative process. You you mentioned being a sprinter. You said you would like to write these things. And then you Is it like Evan flow im? You know, part of my mission in life is to understand, you know, the creative process from the world's best creators, and they're all over the map, right? Some people and they work on Tuesdays for two hours and some people sit down from 9 to 5 and paint a picture for us. Now that we've were hooked on the book, I want to know how you how you work. Well, first there's the sweatpants on. Go back to voice Here, here. We're right back into your voice. I love it. Oh, man. You know, it's funny. I I think this is my 6th 6th book and and I'm I am, you know, whatever it's worked. So I'm not I'm not trying to change it, but I, um I kind of envy those people who can get up, you know, right for a couple hours in the morning and then go have lunch with a friend and have a life outside of it. I I am, as I said, that Sprint Runner, where I'm thinking about it and the nice thing about it being my six, because I I know how it goes now. So I don't spend the first. You know, Publisher usually gives you about eight months or so. I don't know. That's mine. Do I Don't spend the first you know, 6.5 months freaking out about my book and trying to write it and torturing myself, pulling out my hair. I just I travel or I, you know, go on a hiking trip or whatever. I'm thinking about it and I'm taking notes. But I know myself, and I am not going to sit my ass down in that chair until I've got a month to month and a half of terror and panic and a giant deadline looming over me, because that's how I focused best. And that's just how I do it. So now I know that, and so I just you know, I get the room ready, I get the outfit ready, and then I just hunker down, and I also you know, it's funny, especially with this book, especially during the pandemic and just everything being so weird. Um, I always go into kind of a few steak. I don't know if you have this experience, but a lot of times I'll write something and I will not remember that I wrote it. So it's been really interesting now that I'm starting to podcast for this book and talk about the book and the specifics of the book. I'm so grateful that I also narrated it recently because when I was narrating it, I was like, That's a good stuff in here. Okay? Eso Yeah. So if if the room is the kitchen table and the outfit are the sweats, what other inputs are there in your world that you have? You know, do you write with music on the background? You right early in the morning late at night. Do you like to have Ah, you know Ah, Green Monte marches smoothly. Like what? What? Some other accouterments with your process. You know, I usually now I hire somebody to cook for me because food is always an issue. I don't I hate going to the grocery store anyway. But when I'm writing a book. I definitely have somebody that make healthy food for me. Because then I always I've become this major ice cream Matic lately to like, I have so much ice cream. Refrigerate it zone. But I make sure I have lots of stuff. Like, I feel like whatever it takes to get this book done is fair play. So I don't care. Whatever it is, I get to have it. So with the ice cream, that's my big thing. Um, I call, you know, everybody in my life has to just understand that it's not personal, but they will not be hearing from me, um, at all. Um except when I call them weeping two o'clock in the morning. You know, I can't do this. Um, what else I do right all over the house, I always have an office. And, oh, another thing that I do that I love that has been so helpful. You know, those huge, uh, they're, like, gigantic posted notes that air have sticky stuff on the back. So, um, I find it really helpful. This is sort of a visualization thing too. Like I always outlined the crap out of my book before I write it. But then I need to sort of see the whole thing, because, as you know, there's always so much information that could easily fit into different chapters. So for me, it's so good to be able to see the actual book all around me visually. And then I could take note cards and move the little pieces of information. Um, in different chapters, like each note card is a chapter, and then I could move the information around there. So I have one room. That's just it's like walking into the guts of my book. So that's really that's been a really helpful tool for me. I love that I I hate I wrote my first book year ago, came out in the fall, and the same thing was so I'm a very visual person. Lifelong photographer, visual artist and so writing slow and paint. I've done books before, but they were visual books, not like word books. Same things crazy like tohave. You're working on it in bite sized chunks because that's how you write you. You can't write a chapter with five keystrokes, so to be able to see how all the ideas fit together and makes sense. Um was so helpful. Yellow stickies, though. The giant yellow stickies. That's a new one. I'm taking notes on that. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your process and the ideas behind your new book. And again for those This is the book holidays. This is a fantastic gift. Badass habits cultivate the awareness, boundaries and daily upgrade. You need to make them stick beginning December. I think that's just, you know, close. That's like two weeks from now. Um, congrats on the book. And the very last thing that I would like to leave our listeners and watchers with is on page 2 44 of a book. I'm not going to tell the readers which book of a book. There's one phrase and I want to know what you meant. The phrases you can have it all. What did you mean by that To say it was at the end of one of the books. You can have it all because listen, I I am obsessed with the idea that right now we are all on a planet in infinite space and I find that so comforting in a way. I mean, it's utterly terrifying also, but it's all ridiculous. It's all this experience cartoon of being a human being in life on planet Earth, like all the little minutia. And, you know, like I can't get my IPhone a worker. All the stuff that we get, like the fact that my guys vacuuming the pond right now while I'm finishing up all these little irritations, right that happened. It would get so attached to and and and get in there when you remember toe, look outwards and look at the expanse of possibility. And the fact that you are even born is bananas. What it took for you to be born, all of the humans it had to come together and the timing and everything like that. It's a miracle. So if that can happen, you could do anything, because that's impossible to. So I really believe that no better place to end a podcast. Thank you so much for being on this show on Thanks for inspiring so many million's and million's congrats on the new book. It's stunning, and your new take on habits is super helpful. I know it's gonna be well received and just want to say thanks for being the show. Thank you so much for having me. This was a joy. You're an amazing person to talk to, so I really appreciate it. Makes it Well, we gotta make sure the people out there buying the book again. This help Jen out. Because if you buy the book especially right when this right when you hear this, just click. You know, go click on your local bookstores website or any of the big boxes and get because we want You know what? Jen's first book was only on the New York Times this for 4.5 years. So she's really struggling. Let's let's get our our community out in Supporter. Thanks so much again for being on the show. Jen Looking forward. Thio sie in the book on the shelves. Thanks so much. Mhm.