Do Something Different with Jason Mesnick
hair. Really? What's up, Chase? Welcome to another episode of the Chase Travis Live show here on creative life. You know, the show this arrested down with amazing people. And I do everything I can to unpack their brains with the goal of helping you live your dreams. Whether that's in career and hobby or in life. Yes, today is a father. Ah, husband. You probably also know him from the bachelorette season for and the Bachelor Season 13. My guess is the Jason Moez, Nick. No thanks, man. I don't know how that makes me amazing, but whatever I'll take it. That's a That's a keyword. Amazing on natural world. Oh, yeah. People play drinking games around. Amazing. Yeah. How many times a person said, you drink every time the bachelor bachelorette says Amazing, which is a lot during I'm I'm not in the batch order the called bachelor nation. Yeah, me neither. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, it's cool, but I I don't nothing about it. And I just I know you personally, right? Separate from this show. We'll ...
try and get into how we know each one another because I don't actually. For the first time we met But maybe it was at a former filming of one of these things. Um, I wanted to be in the show for two reasons. One because I think you wildly good looking wave your magic. That's a Jewish in it, um, ish ish Russia Happy. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Um, no, I There's two sides of a similar coin that I want explore and weaken. Going where? Everyone ago. Of course. We're gonna We're gonna cover 1000 miles as we do in these interviews. Um, and you can ask me whatever you want to ask me. You asked me before we started Jason. Like, I want to ask you some questions. I'm like, All right, what? I want the mike you got. You got the mike whenever you want to grab it. Um, I think from, uh, folks at home, we got creatives and entrepreneurs, people who are finding their way in the world. And as I said in the intro, you know, pursuing their passions with that's career, hobby or life. And I think that that folks at home will look at someone who has celebrity. I'll say relative celebrity because they've been on television. Why they know when you're recognized. I've been out with you before and and I think that's interesting. It's curious. People are curious about that. Um, how did you get into it? Why? You know what motivated us that we're gonna cover that. And then also, I think what's fascinating is that, you know, a couple times, you know, I have gone on for food or coffee, your beers or whatever. And what I find interesting is that you're just like all of us. We're all trying to build a community of people around our passions, our hobbies, things that entered a interesting to us in your case, professional around like a real estate, um, and family. And so come on. This together. So those are two sides of a similar car. And how does how does your celebrity affect that? Positively or negative? And all your viewers should know I bug you to sit down with you to pick your brain about this stock I do all the time, man. I enjoy our time together. I wish it were both busy people. So I wish you a little bit more time. But that's why this is gonna be like a giant group hug. It's going to get, um and you can you can You can hijack anything you want. But I do want to start where I said we would start, which is I'm not in the bachelor nation. My wife's fanatical about it. Uh, and just reality TV in general for me. Like as someone who's made television programs and, you know, been on both sides of the camera in them. I know just enough about it to be dangerous. Not enough about it to talk about it in the way that you can. And so I and I'm also trying to come into this. No, I did as little research on how you got into the batteries possible again. I know you and your family and your kids and stuff like that. But how in the hell did you end up in reality, you dumb Really? So I was gonna say I was I was not going to say dumb luck. Just done so, uh, gosh. So I went through a divorce when my set before my son was one. And I remember I was tying time before its ties 13 now. OK, so I was flipping through the channels and it just I didn't watch the bachelor, but I was flipping through. Came on the bachelor. Uh, and somebody that I knew it was the last episode on the last episode. The guy proposes the one rejects the other one. He was rejecting a friend of mine. Oh, wow. And I didn't know that. I didn't know she was on the show. She had been moved down in San Francisco years before. And I literally right away go like how the hell did you end up on a reality show? I texted her right away. She's like, I'm in the middle of everything. I can't tell you anything. So I went online, literally submitted to the bachelor in Survivor. I really want to do Survivor, like like so Hey, Bachelor Nation, you were second choice. More than anything I wanted to be like the next version of Rick Steves. Uh, like my goal was like to be the travel guy. Awesome. Rick. Amazing. Yeah. Have you talked to him? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's a friend. Oh, so that was my goal to be the like, The next generation Rick Steves survivor never called me back. And a full year later, Um, all I did was send it, like, two sentences in a picture of my son. Full year later, I get a call back and like it was before really cell phones. I had a voicemail at home, and it was somebody from the casting production team just said, Hey, like we like your story like, can you send us a two minute video? And then it just took off from there. I made a video. I think the story really was about me and my son like it was like, super Dad. My son and I were in, like, Michael Jordan jerseys playing dunk hoops in the back backyard. And then they invited me to do initially the bachelorette. Um, and after that, it's about a two month shoot. And after that I got rejected on the last day, like my friend did. Um, and they asked me, There's a lot of full circles here, isn't there? Gosh, yeah, I got rejected in the last day, and then literally I remember I got rejected. I was in the limo and I remember sitting in the limo, and I was I knew she was gonna pick me like she was never gonna pick me like I threw the ring. And I was like, This is kind of dumb And the girl goes, Whoa, hold on. Could we do the ring throw again? Like we got to get that, like, in real time? We missed it. Why? They said, Well, they want you to be the next bachelor, or they're thinking about you being the next bachelor. So they've already kind of, like, show wise, a rethinking, that kind of stuff. Got there. Like, we need him to get rejected, be upset so we can send him off and be the guy and then bring it back. Yeah. Yep. So that was That's basically the story. It's lasted a long time, because the following year, my wife and I got married on ABC, so it was just three years of a lot of, you know, bachelor World Bachelor Nation. Yeah, so But how? In the beginning. So you literally had no no acting experience Note. And again, this is part of whether you want to be on the bachelor or you want to be a venture backed entrepreneur or you want to start your own hair cut business doesn't matter. What I'm curious about and I'd like you to explain is how did you decide to go from 0 to 1? You were literally sitting on the couch with the channels and then something in you was like, I want to do this or and you said before like, you were passionate about travel, and you want to be the next. Did you think this was like a gateway drug to the next big thing? No, I think it really for me was out of college. I picked, like, picked up my backpack, did one of those trouble on Europe by yourself trips. And I remember thinking that was the most free I've ever felt in my life. So you fast forward to like I'm like, now I'm a single dad. I can't do that and more. So the only thing I could think of was like something for my adrenaline rush was trying something new. And it wasn't about being on TV, really. It was like, OK, this is cool. Go down to L. A for a little while. It could be a day. It could be two months. I'll travel around, meet some cool people, see how they make a reality show and have some fun. It was never about meeting a girl. I mean, like I said, I really want to Survivor more than anything, are amazing race or something. That like that, right? Yeah. We have had Les Stroud driver, man, and if you know less, he's basically there's bear gorillas. And Les Stroud bears more TV. Less is more like less is more more hard core like films, all his own stuff. And then And there's Rick Steves, who was just travel guy trouble and pot guy. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, pot advocate. Uh, anyway, so if I'm gonna replay what I heard it was really about a sense of adventure and trying something new. Were you in a right where you stuck? Was it? I mean, were you trying to find a way out of your current situation? I think part of it, I mean that, like like my ex wife left me. So I was like, OK, hold on. Like, how do I get myself back? Yeah, like she left for a reason. We didn't get it. We didn't We didn't I didn't have the future that I was imagining. So now it's time to do something for myself in like one, like my kids in my world, so I can't go for that long. So how long could I go for? Could I go for two months? Maybe, but I'll have to see him at some point, like take care of them. So realistically, it was really just You know, I've never lived for money by any means. And when you go on the show like you, they pay you a little bit. But not nothing more than just your bills, really. And it's really just like, How do I become me again? Yeah, I'm going through this, you know, half you, half your viewers or half the people go through a divorce. Yeah, like I gotta get back to me. That's fast and have a have a lot of fun. Yeah, it's fascinating, and I think it's also there's just a beautiful, but I didn't know that about you, and I think that's a There's something beautiful about just Okay, let's throw my hat in the ring and do something different that I otherwise wouldn't have. And did you see yourself as a reality television star at all? And I mean I can't believe even called me back any acting experience. And he wasn't playing when I was eight cat. But that's I love that because that is the same hurdle. And it may be a different context that so many people who are watching listening right now have, like, you don't have to be the expert. It's funny. I'm thinking about this literally. I wasn't one play when I was eight years old and my brothers were teasing me, right? So what, like why would you want to be in a play in the day before this play? The other guys quit. So is me in like, 30 girls on display so fast forward? The bachelor is about wow me again. Everything is full circle circle. Um, but yeah, for me, like I'm the type of person still, like my wife would tease me about this. Like if I walk into the grocery store and I see something new that I've never tried bag chips of flavor type of cheese. I'll buy that. Why? Because I've never tried it before. So no matter what it is like even if I'm marketing for like in real estate, like if somebody else like if everybody's marketing the same way, I won't do that like I've got to do something different, right or wrong. Like, I feel like I wanna the excitement of trying something new. And I think you're a lot like that. Yeah, for sure. I think I've been espousing the concept as creators and as individuals like be different. Not one or 10 or 8% better. Like that's, you know, the world isn't really decided on betters decided on different ones where people put their attention and, um, especially as a creator, like, you know, you don't sure there are. There is a quality bar, but once you're over a certain quality, it's about do you connect emotionally and by and large, that's an emotional residence. And how do you be? You like you said, getting back to you. So, um, well, let's go. This is, uh I think I is. It said earlier. I know just enough to be dangerous. Not enough to be you about how television is made, have personally made shows and, um, Ben on them, but nothing that has do with reality. I am. That is not in my universe whatsoever. And I think the folks at home might just have a couple of questions, and this is maybe a little bit. Don't be too superficial, cause I take this show very seriously and I wanna have add real value. But I know that there's folks at home and I would get kicked in the shins if I didn't ask. Like, what's it like? It's Well, first of all, it's weird. So I will say that the day the first day you start filming. So there's typically depending on the season. There's 25. Let's just say guys, let's OK, let's go. On my season there were 25 girls. Okay, they fly in 28 people, right to go on the show. Three of them don't make it like this is They thought they were gonna get on the show the whole entire time in the day of filming there. Like you're not gonna get a jacket like, Well, there we don't show up. Well, it's because realistically, it's because, like, they weren't good enough for camera. Yeah, so they have gone through. When you go through this getting on the show, you go through like like an FBI private investigator, background track, you do blood testing. You do drug testing. You do best like STD testing. You do psychological bubble bubble testing. You meet with a like a like a therapist, you know, So they know more about you than you know about yourself. So they may say, OK, like, listen, chase, you're the guy you're like, assumes the cameras turned on. We know everything about you, and then the cameras turned on you just freeze up. So I remember. Hopefully this is appropriate for your audience. So this is before my first camera test, right? And I don't know anything about, like, I walk in and I sit down and, like, there's a camera right in front of me. I don't You know, eighth grade plays what? You know. I know. Eighth grade plate, Right? So But right before I walked out there for the first time, I'm sitting there and I'm with the casting producers casting producers like you. Ready? This is gonna be a camera test on like I think so, Like, I don't know. What am I supposed to say? Uh, and so they said, Let's loosen you up. We'll give you a couple shots of tequila, right like and get it. I know the bachelor world, right? Like that makes sense. So they gave me a couple shots of tequila and we're sitting back, and they say So do you know what a fluffer is? And I was like, No, like, I didn't know what it waas So they explain. You know what I do? So your audience, it's the person who in adult films in adult films they prepped the man right for his debut debut in his show. And I didn't know that. Right? So they explain this whole thing I'm taking shot. My second shot. I'm like, You're confused. Like, Why are we talking? Why are you telling me this? And so as soon as I walk out and they sit down, they make me up for the first time. They said so. Hey, what were you guys talking about? That back there, that was like, Oh, so they just want to see if I open up, Got it? So I have to go back on camera now, and I don't know what they're doing with it, but I have to talk about a fluffer for the for the first time. Our only time and then you kind of go through this whole thing. I'm explaining what a fluffer is. And then I walk out that room and there's literally a room of 30 production. The owner of the show. Everybody walking, watching me going Glad you explain what that waas right here. They just like the idea that you would open up and there are some people that might say, like, I'm not gonna talk about that. Got it? And so those going going for those are the three people that maybe they thought would be on the show. But eventually don't make it. Is your point with this that it's they they're tricking you that it's a little bit ruthless. I mean, again, I'm Yeah, yeah, I think it's a little bit ruthless. There's especially. I think things may be changing now. It's the alcohol. I can't speak to other shows, right? But the alcohol alcohol as a lot. Yeah, so you may be sitting down and, like for dinner at a certain night. This is off camera. They might say, OK, what you guys want for dinner And don't forget to put like we'll get any alcohol you guys want. So you little bring teriyaki chicken and we'll bring like 4/5 of vodka, right, because they want you to open up and relax in Guinness. So I think there's that piece of that's unknown for sure. They're not seeing that. That's yeah, you're They want people to be loose and relaxed. So there's that piece and then there's the piece of, like, weird right that weird. Oh, yeah. Okay, I guess you start off by saying it's really weird. Yeah, I mean, like it. But then there's the other piece of like, if you if, if we're sitting here talking about photography, right, like I'm interested in photography. I just bought my first camera. I'm going on a safari production. Would producer would come in and say, Key? Dis AKI's Jason like, you need to sit down and talk about how many kids you wanna have. We don't care about photography. Our audience doesn't care. Sorry, Our audience doesn't care about photography. Our audience cares about how many kids you wanna have, where you want to live. Like I remember sitting there talking about Michael Jackson like it was a big Michael Jackson fans still am and the producers coming I don't know, like this is dumb. Like we gotta talk about kids and future in that kind of stuff. So you can talk about what you want. They'll interrupt you or cut it out. Wow. Yeah, it's all about getting married, having kids, making babies, programming you aligned with the interests, show like That's fascinating. So is it really? Do you have a problem with the concept of it being called reality? Do you think it's changing since then? Um, I think one. Yes, I think it's changing. Um, I am the first person that I met when I walked on. Said the very first, first day with somebody from a story department. I was like, He's like, Hey, my name is Ryan. I'm in the story apartment. I'm like your what? Who still were you telling? You know, some of it makes sense because they have a show arc that they have to explain, you know? And I guess that makes sense. But realistically they know exactly what they want to tell. Yeah, they know that, like Jason, you're the single dad. We want her toe learn a lot about you. We want you to get hurt at some point like you know we want. Maybe there's romance. I don't care about that. But, like we want you for the next guy. So they already see that kind of show arc. And every single person has their own story that there why they got right in or whatever. Yeah, and the bachelor bachelor at the guy or the girl is just there to host. Really, Like they want somebody who can have a decent conversation with different people. It's amazing on manufactured it is. And I think that's part of you know, whether it's That's why I was asking about reality as the title of that genre, I think What now? It's unscripted, of course. Unscripted. Tell. Yeah, I really have trouble watching it now because you know so much. People will want to talk about it with me. And of course they knew. But if they asked me if I watch it, I'm like, I just like I know too much. Totally. I struggled to watch, you know, watch even films. They gotta be great films back OK, and the booms right there, like I can't I'm not. I can't un produce it in real time, and I didn't know what's happening. But can you enjoy watching films If it's a great film, OK, Because if I can get lost in this story, is that what makes it a great film in Florida's Yeah story, story and emotion? Sometimes you know, if I could lose myself in an amazing character. And but I think the the concept of just knowing a little bit too much about how the sausage is made E I think the one question people always would ask is like When you're the bachelor, Do they make you keep the crazy girls around? Right? Of course, like this theory is like, you walk into a bar and there's 25 guys or girls or whatever your preferences and you're gonna be attracted. You might like two or three of them, right? And so their theory is like as long as you keep your final two or three, like, let us play with the rest. I remember there was one girl early on. I really wanted to keep around, and I said they said to me, Are you gonna We're gonna keep her long term, and I'm like, Are you gonna marry her? and I said, No, no, but she's really cool. They're like, she's not gonna for TV. Wow! Fascinating. All right, So there's for all the folks back. Yeah, there's there's a superficial stuff that I think is interesting. Now, what I think is, um What I would like to explore more deeply is how has again this goes back to what people want in life. So when folks were listening, watching like, I want to have, you know, my career as a on author or I want to be a screenwriter, I want to do whatever. And I think sometimes it's different than what it looks like from where you're standing today assumes you get there. I didn't know this is what I wanted. I wonder if it is what I wanted. And there's also, I believe, a Okay, once you have a certain amount of status, be that financial status, social status, celebrity. Our culture is clearly obsessed with celebrity. Um, that everything just opens up. I've talked about it, so Yeah, well, if I just could make a $1,000,000 or get my first big campaign or whatever that everything's gonna open up. So I believe knowing what I know just a little bit about you that you've had some experience of that. But I also believe that there's probably some ways that it hasn't. So you tell me along the lines of what I was just that thread that I was just pulling on. How has it changed? Did your world open up or you said earlier they discovered your expenses? Of course you had other opportunities. So just and I think again the goal isn't about the bachelor here. It's about because people at home are gonna go. Oh, wow. I can apply that. Even though that's the Bachelor television series when I get there, it might not be all its cracked up to be. So tell me about your experience with celebrity. Did it help hurt? What were the upsides? The downsides And how was it really changed? You? Um gosh one. Yes, it helps for sure. On what I mean by that is in my line of work in real estate, it's all about meeting new people, right? And some people in my line of work by people like to, you know, buy leads for me. I can literally go into a coffee shop and meet people without having to work. It's hard because people want to meet me. Yeah, um, and I think that's really cool. You know, that was tougher before. Before I always put myself out there because I always said, you know, like you never know, remember, had an old boss, asystole life insurance. And he he would always say to me, You shouldn't sit down with that person cause they're bad prospect. And I said, Like, you know, maybe don't have a lot of money And I said, I just don't never like who do they know? Like someone like, Maybe they'll be become a good friend Or like, I was always willing to sit down with anybody who is willing to have a cup of coffee with me and just be curious and open. Yeah, and I still am. You know, I get people all the time just through linked in and say, Hey, you want to grab a cup of coffee like I'm trying to network in Seattle? Sure, like what's just schedule? And we'll go do it. Yeah. School. So that has changed one, um, kind of the business part of my life. We do get a lot of freebies. I mean, we still get to travel and do that kind of stuff you notice on G m A. Lest we just in Jamie. Jamie last we Good morning, America, for those of you who are in international audience and, you know, we got this awesome free trip to Turks and Caicos last, like, get some of that stuff too. Which which, um, is really we're really fortunate for that in our, um but I think overall overall, it's a really good thing. I mean, I think there are times in my business now. I was working with, um, a client who was looking for a house. We're looking for about six months and all of a sudden stop responding to me over a weekend because he was going to think about a house. And I called him up on Monday and I said, Hey, you know, what were you guys thinking about over the weekend? He said, So we're gonna buy it with somebody else. I said, Well, gosh, you know, we spent a lot of time working together. Why? He said, I just thought you were too famous, and I didn't know what that meant when he said, You know, you like, I see your face and I see the things that you do. And and I said, I'm here 99.9% of the time, so that happens very rarely. Yeah, but I take the bad, obviously, with the good, you know? So if that's gonna happen to me once a year, every other year, that's fine. But it's also a learning experience for me of like, I got to make sure that people that I know or care about or I work with don't feel that way. Yeah, you know, So is there. Um this is I want to keep pushing this just a little bit, I think. How about the concept of sort of making it and again making it? Whether that's you were on prime time television for 20 weeks or however many it is. Did you have a sense of, like, All right, cool. I can stick a cherry on top, reckoned stick the flag in the thing or the or is it Is it never over? I think that's Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I don't think for me. I don't think it's ever gonna be over. Yeah. Um, I love building and creating things. I don't feel like I'm the creative person. Maybe you are. Uh, but that's what I was asking. What kind of content? Like, what was the content that I'm trying to present to people, But I think I like, I mean, so going from the first thought I had coming back from the reality TV experience was all these people that work in the TV world really smile a lot more than people that are in the insurance world. People like what they're doing. They may not want to be like I did learn. Most people that are producing and directing reality TV don't want to be doing that. They want to be just doing something they're more passionate about. They're doing. This is a stepping stone feature films or something? Something like that. Yeah, but I do remember thinking people really enjoy what they do. So I came back going, OK, now what I love like I didn't love selling life insurance. I knew that. So what is it? So I spent Gosh, you know, a good five years trying to build my own thing right and one of the things was it? It was a start up in the single parent space that didn't work out because it was much more of a nonprofit. And then I started to kids, Footwear and Apparel apparel company, which was really cool. But I learned a lot about myself that, like, I was really controlling in my first business. And it was hard for my partners, and they were down in the Bay Area. And luckily, it's flourishing down there now. But I'm appear with my family. Yeah, um, so I'm in real estate with something I was always passionate about, and it works well with my lifestyle. My wife is, um she's a morning radio show. She's here and cast. Yeah, she's here in local kiss day, so she leaves every morning at four. So I've got to be Mr Mom every morning, which I love. Like, I wouldn't change anything about that senior their kids there. So guess I'm like my kids in my world. Right. Um Daddy Donut daughter day. Yeah, right. Don't know. Daddy. Don't, Right. Right. Yeah. Don't. It's a daddy every Friday. So I take my daughter and sometimes her friends and whatnot with you doing? It's before school on Fridays. Who doesn't love us? Oh, gosh. So sorry to take up track, but you feel like you were able to build your own thing. And I think I always, like, even now sitting here now. I love what I do in helping people buy and sell homes. But my mind goes, How people gonna do that in the future? I mean, people know of Zillow and Redfin like That's fine, but nobody's figured out yet. So the way my mind works now is like, how do I I think I think, for example, real estate lacks transparency, and I like I intensely dislike that. Yeah. So how do I set my mind right away? Goes How do we fix this world of real estate? I don't know yet. I want to figure it out. I hope I do. Um, but I'm not sure I'm gonna do it yet, So that's why I'm so there's always gonna be something for me. Yeah, I think that there's also and I'm trying to dispel a myth I think through. And you're helping me just through simple stories that it's like there isn't like, Okay, cool. Once I do this, I'm on the bachelor, the bachelorette. Or once I hit a 1,000,000 followers or once I, um you get that first funding check from the venture capital that I will have made it. I just don't know. That's just not true. And I think that's fundamentally a myth that popular culture at large believes like, Oh, dude, that guy's got it made or she's figured it out. The rallies were all trying to figure it out all the time. Yeah, I think everybody is. I mean, I think that's you know, you know some really interesting people, and you would know that firsthand for sure. You know, I've got a good friend of mine that is one of the brute, most brilliant people that I know. He started a company called Seattle Genetics. Cancer rates cancer, right? He's got a $12 billion market cap. He's got more, you know, his team and his money do more than I could ever imagine. And he's just trying to build more and more. Yeah, like he's never gonna stop. I think that there's you know, that two sides, the same coin, it's like and there's something to learn from that like pace yourself and yeah, I didn't continue to. That's what I like to. Would you open the show? It was just like I love doing your things and that's really healthy and and provide sort of a bedrock for personal growth and development. There's also a just like we got to try and nip this, but I think it creates a lot of suffering culturally. Like if I could just get you fill in the blank, then I will be happy. I think what is You know what I'm hearing from your story, and what I want to emphasize is no sort of like gratitude. Enjoy with what you have creates happiness. It's happiness is not a thing that you get, and then you're you're happy. You know, I think it's a very interesting point. I mean, there's a couple of people in my work world right now that are going through some health stuff. Yeah, and even today something came up and he responded to me. He said, Just love your family, you know? And he's very successful in his work world, so, like you can have all this stuff in your your work world. But like just remember what truly makes you happy. I always wanted. I always wonder. Fast forward to when you're on your deathbed, right? What are you gonna think about? Yeah. What is it like? My guess is it's not gonna be house or a car, you know, something like that. It's gonna be your loved ones, right? Or maybe some of the impact you had in the world something like that, for sure, I don't I think they've actually done a lot of studies that say, Like, what do you do? You know, what do you care about in your final moments? And I don't think anyone ever said, Like, I really wish I worked a lot more that Ferrari was sweet. Um, yeah. So let's go back to a point we talked about earlier about being different. Not just better and again. I'm using the lens of this show, which is a lens that very few people point point 000001% of the population gets, but that's part of the reason. I think it's fascinating, but I'm inspired by people who go gets the grain who do things a little bit different. Um, I know this second hand, and I remember the fervor when it happened. But you did something that ever been done in the bathroom before it, right, you were gonna marry somebody, and then you basically rescinded the offer, and that's where you say. So what was that? And again, this is again. We're using this show to think about a larger concept. But was that like, was this year move to be different? Not better. Or was that you were following what everybody else wanted? Because this is a really popular theme for people in the show doing everybody else wanted to dio. And then at the end, you listen to what was true in your heart. You did something different. Give me your view of your decision process. And then So if I went back to that experience, I knew at that moment I thought I was picking the right person. All right, it okay, um but I never wanted to propose. So the show ends and here's the ring. And, like, we're gonna get engaged. Wouldn't you really don't know the person very well. So I remember a couple days before the end, I said to everybody like, I'm not proposing like it's just not like I've got a son. We've got to get to know each other, like, let's take us to the real world real quick. And I remember the owner of the show comes down to me and he said we tried that before, and that's not how it works. And I was like, Oh, whoa, like, show wise, a real world like he just was not going to allow me to end his show the way I wanted it to, right? Meaning, Hey, we're gonna date outside the, um you know, fast forward. A couple months. I was right it for me, that the relationship wasn't what I was hoping. Um, and her and I both like she had somebody back home, and I and I wanted to see if I if the other girl, Molly and now my wife was gonna be a good fit for me and, you know, kind of just going through that step I knew is the one of my biggest learning lessons. I knew I shouldn't have done it. Could they have stopped me? I probably I probably could have done it. They didn't let me think I could do it like that manipulation part was we don't allow that. But how were they going to stop me if I said I'm not gonna propose? So I go to like my gut was right. Yeah, right. Like when I don't listen to. And I think we all have those in internal. This is beautiful. Listen, like And I didn't listen to myself. So it was the biggest thing, right? And so then I fast forward two. There were two from this experience there to the most meaningful lessons for me to learn. So that was the first. The second was Okay. So you want to talk to Molly, Not my wife. You can't do that unless you do it on screen, right? And ask her out. I was like, What do you mean? Well, you've signed a contract that says if you talk to somebody we don't allow, it's a five minute. There's $5 million over your head. I don't $5 million. You know what was gonna happen? So they said we've already asked her to be the next girl, the bachelorette. So if you want to do it, you've got to do it through that show on our terms, and we're going to create a whole special show around it. So my gut said This is wrong, right? Like I can't go on TV and, like, it's gonna look bad for me. It's gonna look bad for this girl. Like, let's just we'll do this later. But I listen to them again and luckily it worked out because I got married. But it was a really bad thing for a lot of us involved. It was just very negative. It was great for the show, right? But it was it was me again for the second time, saying Okay, like this is not right. It doesn't feel good for me. Let's do it. Should have been done away from cameras and whatnot. Yeah, So I think the biggest lessons for me from from that whole show TV thing was I know the difference from right Wrong. Yeah. You know, I did the show. So I think part of what? The reason I would say I went and did went through with it with Molly in the second place was I'm gonna let anybody stand in my way like I've got to do. I've got to do what I've got to do. Like, I wish it wasn't on TV. But if you're gonna tell me like, I can't go after somebody that I'm interested in because I met her on a show and that's not the way things go. That's not a $1,000,000 yeah, yeah, yeah, but a to the end of the day, like I'm gonna like. The reason I went on the show was because, you know, I kind of go at my own now my own drummer, right? The reason why backpack There are people, the backpack around Europe. But I think most people are the same way they like, I'm gonna meet people. One I want to meet people like I'm gonna go to Youth hostel and meet interesting people, and I'm gonna for me. That's why I went on the show. And that's why, in turn, I didn't work out with the other girl, Melissa. And then that's why I asked Molly out. Because, like, I'm just gonna do it like you've got one life. Yeah, like the worst somebody's going to say is No. You know, people said that a lot to me, so I'm okay with that. Right? you get used to it. So I'm gonna reference the conversation we had with someone else who has been on the show. One of the most famous designers in the world. A guy called Stefan Sag maester. He tells a great story of he was just building his design business, and he was yet he was burning out and he decided that he needed to take a year off and pursue personal projects and passion projects. And he was wickedly afraid that he was gonna lose all his clients is like what? I just could build the stay at this, you know, studio And I got these clients. Everything's going great. But I know inside. Like if I don't take this year off, it's gonna be really bad. And, you know, I need to find a way to rejuvenate. Otherwise, I'm not gonna have any clients anyway, So he describes feeling that this thing was gonna destroy his career, and then what he did is just lean in. And I said, Hey, look at this is who I am. You know, I decided, like, every seven years, I'm gonna take a year off, and this is my seventh year or so see everybody. I'll see when I get back. And what it did is he actually became known as that crazy ass designer who every seven years just says, I don't care what working on right now, I'm just gonna like, and and so the thing that he was most afraid of or that was hardest or the thing where he was the most different and everybody told him that this was gonna be disastrous for him was actually the thing that made him well known on when he came back. Everybody wanted to make sure they got to work with him and when he was available. So in a weird way, like I'm I'm drawing a parallel between Sag meister and you because there's a lot of, you know, bachelors out there. And bachelor number four is a lot like six is a lot like nine and 13. But you're the dude who, like, broke the whole system. Yeah, I just wouldn't be afraid. I mean, I know there is fear of rejection, like fear of rejection for Eddie. I'm talking relationships. And that work would to me, fear of rejection and work sucks. Yeah, because that means like they don't like me or they don't trust me or something along those lines. But don't be afraid. Like that's the biggest thing I think that I've learned through my life is like, If it's not life or death, which I hope it's not. Yeah, that's something different. Go for it, you know? I mean, I was almost having this exact same conversation. My daughter started kindergarten three days ago. Okay? She's just, like, super nervous. She's got a role. Like I'm nervous. I'm like, You know what? Everybody's nervous, but just smile. Be the girl that waves and smiles. Okay? Okay. Like I could do that. And that's the same mindset I have. Like, if people remember me is like that, the high like Smiley would like. That's cool. Like, that's not the worst thing in the world, but having that same thought of like, everybody gets nervous. Yeah, everybody like like I say, we really just have two shots of tequila. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't talk about cotton candy. So how did you think you just said? I think it's very helpful advice, I think especially going through. You know what you you've gone through with show and lots of career success since then. What is the tactics that you used to just not be afraid? Because right now there's someone sit in their underwear in Ohio's in the show and from allow, you know what? But they're saying like, you have a dude like saying Just don't be afraid. That's like saying like, Always be happy, Yeah, so you know what have you They deconstruct your own habits. What have you done to to manage here? Oh, gosh, I'm trying to like I You know, I I probably go back to some of my lessons learned from going going through my divorce night in the bachelor. I remember thinking how bad that hurt, right? Like I've been through some of that really bad, and I think we all have. People have gone through leg. It doesn't have to be divorced. Whatever it is in whatever rejection that you're like, this is my mind's at whatever rejection that you're fearing is not as bad as that. Like, I could go through my worst not physical pain. Emotional pain. Yeah, like it's not going to be bad. Is that because I've been through something like that was hurt so bad and whatever it is, if you're like if you're fearing to me it's rejection or not being trusted again like it's not as that is the other thing. You already you've already gone through worse. Wow, that's what I think about it. Like, it's not gonna hurt us bad. Is that so? What about Let's talk about, um, start to flip that script, that we talked about it being the show, right? We're like, OK, cool. There's the bathroom side of you. The lessons I think for what it's worth, is recapping the lesson of like, well, a just trying new things. Not that that's, I think, incredible, but being attuned to your gut. Yeah, that's a big one for me. That's huge. I think it's huge permits. Everyone who sat in this year on this show is basically said The world is telling me this and that, and I got 50 ideas from everybody who's supposed to way smarter and way better and whatever, and I did the thing that was against him, and I'm totally had this experience and it just was blown me up every time. So there's this thing. I think that's beautiful. So think you're saying that now let's flip that script to the other side. And when I opened the show is that we're gonna talk about and now, like Jason, he's just like us. Like you wanna build a community around thing that you care about. And, um, you don't have it all figured out a way. That's why I'm here today with cameras Turn out. We're gonna dio social media coaching. We're gonna record some PS. As for him and his audience and no, I like and I go back to it like I've got a fear of doing the wrong thing. Like I haven't done like all the things that I want to do in. I would say more in the social creative photo video world to tell the story, right? So, like I said, one of the things that frustrates me a lot about the business I'm in real estate is the lack of transparency. And you and I have talked about that. I want to tell that like I want, I want like I want to be. I want people Look at me. I trust you so much because you're telling me how to like. I'll tell you how to do it. Yeah. You want to sell a house on your own? I'm gonna teach you how to do it. I haven't done that. Why haven't I? We jump forward, we get three cameras way could film this way. Got three film, the we got it. We'll do that. So I mean, but I haven't done it so And I asked myself a lot. So part of its time, You know, I when I, um my priorities in life always come my kids first. So I will drop anything I'm doing for work, right for my kids, so I could blame it on that, But I still have more time, you know, and I like I, uh I put my client's right right up the top with my you know, So it's pretty kids and my wife, my clients. So those take up most of my time? I just don't make enough time to do that. Why not? It's important to me. Yeah, but I still haven't, so I haven't figured it out. And I still haven't done some of this stuff like I've tried. And I failed a lot on some of the video projects I worked on. Like I watch him going. I re watched some of my video projects that I do on my own and wonder like who would ever watch? This is so bad there so bad. Like bad content, bad editing, bad, bad hair and makeup. You know, get bet everything. We're gonna fix this. We're gonna fix it. Let's fix it now. And I'm sure there's someone either He's listening who maybe could reach out and give you a little help. You want to know? I'm always here for you, man. Um, no. But I think that just on the concept of that, you were against someone relative. Celebrity. You're supposed to have it all figured out. You're just like us trying to figure it out and building something from scratch, basically from scratch. And you've got you be able to leverage a lot. Like you said relationships and people will come up to you. And if you say it's about meeting people, those were great things. But the other day, there's still things equal work they're not doing to get it done. And so everyone home you could just rest easy, right? Yeah. Jason's just like you. Yeah, we're all trying to figure it out. I mean, like you like you built this really cool company, right? Here I am. Look at the dark circles. I'm just trying to figure it out. Yeah, I am. I'm just trying to figure in the last thing. That's one of the things that I'm most passionate. The show is like if anybody learned anything from this, it's just like we're all trying to figure out. No one has the system. Nothing is for sure. Nothing is like whatever is on rails is only on rails temporarily like there's no such thing as perfection. Some of the other days like this will resonate with you in the real estate world, like, Oh, yeah, I was getting too big driver. And then there was like, Okay, how about Tuscaloosa? Yeah, right. Or Detroit. Or like there's no such thing. That's the perfect thing. You're either growing or you're dying, and I'd rather be growing person. So let's find, try and find a way to make Seattle work same personally, like if you're pursuing something, your passion about your growing and that's what I love about the second arc of your crew. I think you still do a good job of tying back to the batch. Like you said, you're on Good Morning, America last week. You still have a toe in that world, which is enough. It's fun or playful, or you don't get that much out of the obstacle course. Did we talk about that present before the cameras were rolling the obstacle course? Yeah. Uh, well, I'll explain why I was in New York, right? So they were in introducing next year's new bachelor, invited of my wife and I and a few people saying, Hey, we're gonna do this. We introduce the new guy, We're gonna do an obstacle Courses. Interesting. I like officers like New York and like obstacles and, you know, go to New York and we'll have some fun. Um, you know, most of it, too, is like, I get my friends and my clients get a kick out of when you know, it was 10 years ago. It was like I was on the Bachelor before HD before this. It was really great. Um, so we get there and it's like, Okay, so here's the off school Molly put about on the ground. Spin around. You get dizzy put on a two to hand. Jason arose. Jason hand. Somebody else arose and he's got to dig through the cake to find, like, a giant diamond ring. And that was the opposite, Of course. It was literally, like 45 seconds. And I had, like, usually people are like, Oh, I saw you did this really cool thing. And three people at the gym said to me, I saw you. That was really dumb. I remember flying back, sitting next to my wife on the plane because we were in New York for little e 13 hours, her saying that was the dumbest thing I've ever done. Thanks a lot for making me go now, So But I do it. Like I said, I would probably go again. This goes back to the backpacking thing. Like whatever. Like I'm gonna make. Like, I'm gonna waste some time. I'll meet somebody who's interesting. I'm It's a couple interesting people there, you know? Yeah, but I love it. It was really not. I think you guys are like you've done such a nice job with, like, taking it playfully. You got what you got out of. You found each other. I think that's an amazing story that the country clearly connected with. But you also like your social profile is You guys are sort of timing cheek about it. Yeah, but what season was that again? Is it because I don't know, he came back and, you know, this is your just playful around it, So I like that. Let's go back to what you're building now. You're trying to figure it out breaking. So you liked the fact that you acknowledge that real estate socks and so you're tryingto because of the transparency, lack of transparency. And so that's a thing that you feel like. I think it's such like real estate is such an important thing for not for everybody, but for so many people. It's a dream of owning something, right, And it's the most valuable asset and right. I mean, it could be build wealth to write, but I think the buying and selling process is so covered up by so many people, right? And some people like maybe maybe you feel like you're paying too much for what you're getting right. Or maybe you're, um yeah, you're over paying for a house that you could have paid less for right, and there's such a lack of, like of walking people through the process. And let's just say Hey, like I don't want to pay commission. Will you teach me how to do it? Sure, like if you really want to do it on your own, what's what's What's the one thing I can offer to you? I would do that for people. There are people that don't have time to do that right or the knowledge. Or like, you know, I've got clients, have three kids and both parents work. And you know, how do you get your house ready when you're doing all this stuff? And you know, of course, so that's where I can have a ton of value. But if I cannot at a ton of value for those people who need me, But I can also add value for people that air sitting behind the camera like, you know, that really want to do it themselves and save a few 1000 bucks. Yeah, I'll do that, too. Yeah, you know, But then then it goes to like the whole buying and selling process, like, Why can't I do about myself or can someone just help me a little bit and coach me along the way. I'm happy to do that. I think that's a great way. Said that's what we were getting into, like our last call. Okay, last great is the last coffee date. You're like what? Like what story? I got a you know, this is the story, like, to me, this is the best story. Like you're telling it right now. Why don't you say Here's the 10 things toe do So let's help you right now we're coaching no coaching, Jason Moez Nick on storytelling social media world in 2000 And I'm not good at social media. Yes, sure. I mean, like daughter Donut day. I think a picture and hey, Yeah, My wife loves it like she could sit back and do social media, you know? But she could flip between Facebook Instagram. You know what? Whatever it is, you know, Snapchat all day long and I sit back and go. You know what? I've been on my phone all day long. I don't want to do that, you know? But it's not for everybody. Yeah, but I do. But I need to do more of it. Yeah, right. I think that's my thing. Well, that's what are part of why I'm sort of sticking on this thing. I think it's like that. There are things that we're all striving for and trying to get better at, and we want to tell better stories. How important is it gonna be to the next chapter of success? For you is hugely important. It's number, isn't that? It's I think it's number one for me, right? Being emotional, like my business is fine, right? Like the I can support my family in the way I want to with what I'm doing now. But if I want to build something really cool that nobody else has done before, I got to do that. And that is you have to tell stories. I have to tell stories and go with my gut. So going go with my gut until in the right stories, right? And you know this. I know this. Yeah, I know. You know this. So I'm sitting in behind the camera in my underwear. You know, I from Ohio, from Ohio. I love it. Um, well, let's fake just This is I like to play a little thing I call speed round. Just look at random it. I don't want to put too much pressure, so you don't actually have to answer quickly. Look, I can think, um, but it's it's just things that you like. Okay? And there's no wrong answer. I never I hate when I'm asked. What's the best book? Remember it? I'm like, I instantly freeze, like best. Literally the best. I've read 1000 books. I want to find the best the best when I was 18 or the but whatever you get it. So I feel no pressure. But I think this is to me just a fun way of revealing some things about, I guess, Um Morning routine. Super short. Don't overthink. It was look like wake up early before my kids get up. Try to work out if they wake up. Well, I'm trying to work out. Can that hang out with them? Get him off the school, then go work out, then go work out. Yeah, and I do work in between them again in real estate. I'm always kinda in between my checking email and all that kind of stuff to got a night night routine. Um gosh, uh, hanging again. Hang out with my kids, get some work done. Try to spend some time with my wife, go to bed Because always, even because you got kids, you know, they don't always do, like I mean, there is. They were early, too. So most people eat it. Seven, we'd like 5 45 Wow. What gets me under kids? Yeah. Little ones have to eat, you know, Especially now with her and in school. And why not? Like she's gotta be up getting ready for bed. 7 30 Clearly stay fit. You mentioned working out twice. What? Your workout, Uh, depends if I'm at home, it's It's I got a treadmill in some light weights and I'll have a nap that I just follow. If I can get to the gym, it's the Beachbody. Whatever. It's like they've got a 1,000,000 workout. I don't do that. I've done that before, but it's the same company who does that. Okay. So you could just pick like a team down version of that. Got it? Um, I do in the last couple of months have been going to orange theory a lot interesting. So I've been it literally had just changed this week because my daughter's going to school now. It's not now. It's like I can't go to orange serious much. Got it. So now it's much more home. Um, any mindfulness meditation? Prayer visualization? What are your milk? No prayer for me, but I do have headspace app. I take 10 minutes every morning. I forgot that. Not school 10 minutes. And just like like, sometimes it sit ups sometimes really down like that before the kids were up? Yes. Yeah. I try to get up hour, hour and 1/2 before the kids get up. So what does that? What time is that? Uh, 55 30. Yeah. So I try to give myself if I can. Like, I usually think kids are up by 6 30 Sometimes they're up earlier. Um, hour, hour and 1/2 on my own. Great. Just to be me when you say Just to be mean is that it's just like if you know, I've got you know, I have my kindle out, so I don't always read. I think I will read, but sometimes in the morning and don't want to read. Um, but it's mindfulness app reading if I can Working out if I can, um, and getting some work done before the kids get up. And then night routine you talked about. Do you have any, like, sleep aids that use or you good sleep were not a good sleep. Um, I'm fine sleeper now, but I went like when I went through my divorce, I took, like, sleeping aids for two or three years. You know, whatever it was like over the counter stuff. Yeah. So I cut, cut all that out, and now it's just, you know, sleep when I can. And let's talk about, um, your relationships So relationship with Molly, you got You have two kids, one from previous marriage. Riley is when you share together. When new new member of the family tie still is at home. He's with us after half time. You got it. And, uh, how do you guys, You guys get some time alone? Yes, that's probably hardest thing. I mean, and I do. You know, I remember Molly said that when we first met before Riley was born, it was like you put everything into your kids. I'm like, No, I just get like, I don't know how not to. Yeah, but Molly and I probably could, I would say, probably could do more for ourselves. Like we don't go out on dates as much as we should probably go once a month on a date. We do a ton of stuff with friends. Molly loves hosting, so we always have neighbors over. You know, it's mostly the kid's parents. Just we become the place that Molly loves to host everything. So we always have friends over. So that's probably more of what we dio travel. Uh, not as much as I'd like. Yeah, you know, I could travel somewhere, you know, I could go. If I could fit in Rick Steve's backpack, I would go still, I shouldn't dish you guys. Oh, God, I eyes is great. I would that that was my dream. I said, You know, he's cool for a certain demographic. I mean, I even did some of backdoor stuff, and I have travelled, but like, it could be the next generation. You should. That's that's there for you. Yeah, he's create understanding small story. So I'm on a shoot, uh, shooting for this. Uh, sounds bad. What? I was just this yacht company E chart it is in in Iceland and charted this just gargantuan yacht and were run us probably 90 feet long or something like this and just, like, fine around helicopter shooting this thing come back into this harbor here in Reykjavik. And, um, I had landed, Got on the got on the boat for this last scene, were right by the dock, and I'm taking a picture and I hear Is it cheese? Germans and I turned around. And the doctor 20 feet from us and it's him and is, I think, then girlfriend or wife and its producer. And they had just come from shooting a segment in Reykjavik and they had turned away for the last scene of the lesson of the show. Said Runner, Where did you get my times? We had a nice little visit in Iceland, Natural on go travel with a big group like, what's his? It seemed like it was three people, four people, and I figures like, Yeah, my fast. I think that's part of his deal. Everyone sort of fit in, you know? Yeah. Okay. That's travel. How about um, like, next thing thing that you're not doing besides the social stuff, the storytelling. What do you not doing that you think you should be or you want to? Gosh are not doing? I think it's travel. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's not things for me, like I don't care about like my house. I find it's like I car like all that stuff over. Things were fine, but like I would love to help my kids see the world more so like my son went. It was his idea, like the school trip to Ecuador last year, and he's like, I really want to do that thing. I was like, really? Like Why? Like why? He's like, I don't know, like some school. And so he's starting to think that way. But for me, I would love to. Doesn't have to be super educational, just more cultural. I think, um starts showing my kids letting them experience different cultures in the world, that everything that that's what I think I love for my family, something will you, your very public person. You've had your life basically impact on television. What's something about you that people would be surprised to find out? Surprised like I know you loved owns, for example. You know that you have donuts, but, I mean, maybe there's something else that's a little more substantial. A Josh people surprised like I had no idea. Gosh, I don't even think it's it's anything. Isn't that I do, But it's more of like when I OK, so I go back. Teoh, there's a photo. I think about that when I was when I was little. Had a lazy eye. Okay, right. So I crossed in at a patch to correct it, right? And so I think about that. And I think about like, little kids. They're wearing glasses now. But that picture there is one picture of me taken like have this lazy eye. And, uh, but this patch on and I was four years old and like the Superman under you remember under Russo, course of my Superman, Underoos and preschool picture in every time. Like I would get I was if I was dating somebody, I was growing up or pretty like a girl that I like would come over. My brothers were attacking up all around the house. Uh, so but I'm just like when I think about like people think of me is like this bachelor guy that, like, was able to data like Do all these things I was were these giant glasses at braces, big space in my teeth, like just beat. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Does none of that matters? Awesome. Kind of a weird place to end. I don't know that that doesn't really like I am who I am. Like, I don't feel like I I can't think of anything that people really don't grasp of who I am. I'm so I feel like I'm training trance. Very transparent. I'll go with the, uh, friend Tim Ferriss. He's got a great podcast was just on this show and uncreative live on Monday. What day is today? Tuesday. Yeah, yesterday saying that was yesterday. I feel like a long time ago. Um, and you get a questioning those daft in this show, and I'll just ask you right now, because it's appropriate. So if you could put something on a billboard and make sure that everybody saw what would be on that don't work about me or about anything carb, ADM like I've never I don't have a tattoo and only tattoo I could ever imagine myself getting us something about my kids or that he got one life. So don't be, yeah, don't be afraid. I love this stuff on fear, man. I think that's so powerful. So like, what we find is that we live in this sort of prison of our own making. And just in her head, Yeah, it's all. It's 99% of their hands, all mindset. Do you have any besides Headspace? You have any like mindset? Visualization stopped. The years have dental like I've read about, like, read, read and read about that, that kind of stuff, too. And, um, sometimes I'll start like projects that will get me working affirmations and that kind of stuff so I don't stick. It's hard to make it stick like I remember my mom had some of that stuff up like yellow stickies under mirror and stuff when I was a kid. So maybe I learned some of them from her, but I don't I mean, it's really just, you know, wake up and just especially as you have kids and as I'm coming across people in life that are ill, it's like you got your life. Live it like don't stop. It can be scary. But we've all lived through something that's probably scarier. That's also really prescient advice. There's always nine out of 10 things you're going to do that are scaring you right now are not nearly as scary as the thing that you've already done. Yeah, Prison. All right, man. Now we're gonna end this upset. We're gonna go give Ah, Jason some storytelling keys for his business. Thanks. Thanks so much for being the show. Really appreciate it on DFO Those of you. What's the best way that them to follow you on the internet? They just Are you just Jason? Yeah, at Jason Resnick, um websites and all of our Twitter's at Jason Underscore Mesnil. The rest are at Jason s. Nick, Um I got a website to Popeye Jason Resnick. Sweet. Is that more worker? More personal? It's both. You do a little bit both. I mean, my work world that that's the thing about like, my work world in my personal world. Just collide. Awesome. Which I like Same here already signing off one of the episodes. Super Have glad to have you on the show, man. Thank you for being here and already home. I'll see you again. Hopefully and actually see it and hear yet or you hear me again? Hopefully tomorrow. Thanks.