Releasing Trauma and Mastering Your Emotions with Jason Wilson
harry. What's up? Miss Chase welcomed an episode of the Chase drivers live show here on Creative Live. This is the show where I sit down with amazing humans and unpacked their brains to help you live your dreams. Today's amazing human is Jason Wilson. Now Jason is an expert in emotional stability training. He's written numerous books on the topic. He originally back in 2000 and three is the founder of union. That's why U. N. I O. N. It was a non profit organization in Detroit michigan that was focused on prevention programming and trauma informed care. Originally for fatherless and Misguided Black Boys was his terminology. He's won numerous awards for his work and he's the author of two exceptional books. One called Cry Like a Man and his new book, Battle Cry as a highly recommended must read on my list in this episode. We talk about tools to remain balanced in stressful, difficult or emotional situations. I know everyone could use some of that. We talk about the four R's reflecting re...
leasing resetting and resting what to do as you process trauma. We talked about the benefits of vulnerability and authenticity and also in a world that's historically been so male dominant, where we're now seeing a rise in feminine energy in the long overdue advancement of women and culture. Why his book about male vulnerability is actually exceptionally well timed. I can't wait for you to enjoy this episode with yours truly. And mr Jason Wilson. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, mm No. All right. Everyone today we have with us an incredibly inspiring human. It makes me very happy and it's a great honor to welcome Jason Wilson to the show, Jason, thank you so much for being here. Thanks Chase for having me man, I'm honored to be here. Um I would love to walk down memory lane for me personally, just a couple years when I feel like many people, but I can only speak for myself, became acquainted with your work when a viral video hit the web of you coaching very young man, a boy, I will say through a difficult time as a martial arts instructor. And it seemed like at that moment you laid down not just how to overcome that moment, but there was a path that us viewers could see that you were laying a foundation for this young boy to become a man in a modern era. And I'm wondering for the few handful of people who didn't see that thing because it has tens of millions of views. Um can you walk us through that moment and uh and and help get people acquainted with your work and then up to speed on a little bit about who you are. Video actually believed was 2016 when it happened. And and I mean honestly at that time, Chase had stopped recording the initiation test and so it was my friend's son Bruce believe he was eight years old at the time and I said, you know what, I'm a recorded, so you will have it just for your memories and I just rushed to set the camera if I would've known it would have went viral, I think it's like over 100 million viewers worldwide now I would have focused the camera and everything, proper lighting. But um Bruce was interesting. Many people don't know that the board that he struggled to break, he actually broke it very easy uh a day before and then last week it was no problem both hands. But what Bruce was really dealing with was a fear of failure and he had asked his father several times, you know, could get out of the cave, which is the transformation of training academy, the capable Dell and we just call it the cave and his father wouldn't let him quit. And so when he hits the test came up and it was that board got in front of him, he easily broke through it with his right hand. But when the mind and fear and everything else starts clicking in his non dominant hand, he just couldn't break through. And he had just started crying and in the cave we allow boys and even young men to have a safe space where they can be human because as you know, we're told as men don't cry, no pain, no gain and you know what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. Uh these misleading mantra is have led many mens are early graves and unfulfilled lives. And so instead of condemning him like the traditional where the coaches I've had, you know, Kirstie, I would get cursed at 10 years old man, you know, get, you know, get up, you know, you're stronger than this, do this and do that. Um, I said, what's wrong? And I got dropped to one knee and he started crying. I dropped to one knee, I say it's okay. You know, men we cry too. I think I said something like that and I just started pouring into him and letting them know it was okay to express what he was feeling. But he couldn't allow that emotion to master him in that moment because he still had to break that barrier or that board. And so we use board breaking only not for really striking power but to teach our boys, um that they have a basic understanding of how to overcome emotional barriers in their lives or obstacles. And so again, Bruce is, was a fear of failure and uh, once he got gained understanding of what it was and then feel comfortable in who he was. You can see it from the video, he was able to break through it and the rest is history doing really well now and that really was a very powerful moment. Chase, you know. Yeah, as you said, been viewed hundreds of millions hundreds of millions of times. And it's obviously not because of the ability to break a board, but what it signals culturally, um, you know, under the humanity that underpins I will say us all, you know, your your work is designed primarily for boys and men, but I'll share that. I have spoken at length with my wife kate about this video, about how men are perceived in culture, about your work. And you know, for anyone who's listening to this or watching this right now, of course, again, the work is oriented toward men, but I'm just sharing my personal experience of having spoken with this with my wife and she indicated was sort of illuminating and helpful for her to process, you know, the role that some men having culture and that makes me want to um just put one thing on the table and get your response to it. And that is, you know, in a world where our cultural attention has been focused on men for millennia and where just recently we can feel momentum rightly shifting towards um giving women um the opportunity to be seen and show up in a world that has been denied to them for so long for centuries. Um can you describe how your work coexists with all of the necessary attention that is required to put on um on women though yours is uh is aiming to help boys and men? Are you ask Chase, are you asking me, you know, how is my, how will my work or how does it help? How both? Yeah, I would say how does it, you know, it's got a place to coexist with the work that needs to we need to culturally um elevate women and pay the attention that has been long overdue for millennia. And we're in a moment right now rightly, I believe. And what I've just seen is your work coexists so beautifully. And I'm wondering if that is is are you mindful of that? And just how would you how would you comment on it? Because it seems to coexist so beautifully. Uh for me, when you that's a good question, it's not intentional. I just believe when you allow a man to become whole or comprehensive instead of just living life as a masculine male, he becomes more aware of the wrongs and the rights that, you know, he afflict on the women in his life. And so for me, I wasn't always the man I was, I was hyper masculine male and I would yell a lot in my home if I was getting an argument with my wife, I would hit tables. I was misogynistic. You know, I could go on and on. But until I became what I call a comprehensive man who was basically courageous but also compassionate, strong but sensitive. A man who freely lives from the goodness heart instead of his fears. I began to look at women completely different instead of objects, which again, we objectify women when we, you know, I searched it through masturbation and becoming a lot Auriol just seducing women for personal gain. But really what I was looking for? Chase was real affirmation and love from one woman, which is my wife now. But I chose the path that many men take because we feel that this is some type of validation of manhood to have many women and mistreat women. But when you allow a man to be emotional, when you stop saying what's feminine emotions and what's masculine, when you understand that there are emotions and that you are a male and she is a female. You stop classifying and mistreating people and looking at people like objects. And I've seen it done with men as well. And so with our boys and even the young men who are in our academy, we we make sure that they respect the women. You know, treat them the way that they would desire. We have several classes where we talk about how well I admire about our sisters is that unlike us, we've allowed one adjective to define us masculinity. Okay. Which is Attribution traditionally described two men strength, boldness, aggression, provider protector, whatever. But women, you would never hear a woman say, uh, will be confined by femininity. Okay, so we go way back in time, they would say a woman's place is in the kitchen. Okay. They never allowed that narrative to be painted to them. They fought that. And as men when we should start doing the same because we only allow ourselves to love and masculine ways. So how is it that we can give or treat our women in the weather they deserve when we're only used to being bold protectors and aggressive. We can't even connect that way and me being a spiritual man. The bible was interesting when God created adam, he gave Adam a responsibility, which was the garden and when he created Eve, he gave evil relationship, which was Adam. So here there's a man in which were guilty of chase. We typically only uh define ourselves with what we do. And here it is, Ive wanted the connection and we can't even go there and that's why so many of us we get upset and we don't have the patience when we get home to even just listen to our wives if she stressed out. And so I'm hoping eventually, you know, like you said, you know, it seems like the world was centered around men. And I'm hoping one day that we truly can get healed where women can have their space because women are hurting. You know, there's so many programs to help boys and men in contrast, I don't see a lot available for women and our young girls. So I'm hoping that when men become mentally healthy and emotionally stable, we'll be able to be there for women. Like they've been there for us incredible. Thank you for articulating that. I think a natural extension of that history is even I would just say that near history and present in a world, um where we see these common patterns of male masculinity, of uh the male emotional upbringing as all of the adjectives that you mentioned. And more. Can you help articulate more deeply how the work that you do in a way runs counter to this and creates a new vision you touched on it. You know, as far as we've, we've come in just a few minutes of this conversation so far, but I wanted to invite you to go a little bit deeper on um your work specifically focusing on emotional availability, connection, an inward journey towards uh emotions that are typically culturally, uh, men ignore. Yeah, that's a very good question. Chase. Um, I use myself for example. Um you know, the hardest battle for all of us as men like I know some very strong men, some warriors. The hardest fight for us all is to deal with ourselves. We'll run from it because it draws upon, it makes us feel non masculine emotions like sadness, fear, insecurity, whatever it may be. And so we run from the war that we really need to wage instead of the one that's outside of us. Chase. I didn't become even the cave of adult. Um, it didn't become what it was today until I allowed myself to be broken. My mother when she developed dementia. You know, here it is. I'm I'm a masculine male. I can provide, I can protect, I can make sure she has a housing. But at one point in her life when they started to accelerate, I had to become a nurture. I had to become more compassionate, had to become long suffering. Had to learn how to do her nails, call my hair, massage your head, massage your feet. Those things were a great challenge for me. But until I was able to really understand that we were more than masculine as men. I couldn't take care of her. But when I did, I have no regrets because I left it all on the floor and so in the cave of a dull um what we do, we allow boys of course masculinity in it of itself is not toxic. You know, a man becomes toxic when we allow our lives to only be lived under masculine attributes. And so the toxic thoughts and the negative emotions we continue to suppress. Why? Because we tell each other what if we're hurting? We say stay strong bro. Okay, no one can stay strong. Okay, I was real strong in the gym training martial arts. You can take the 14135 on the bench press and just lock it out. I come back tomorrow. Let me see if you're holding it and I guarantee you the person would have to put rack the weight And so as men, we have a concept about always having a spot. But again, when we're only uh condition to be this superhero that's always strongman, we won't call for a spot even though that bench, the bars on our next strangling us, we keep throwing on the superman cape even though that? S stands for strangling. We can't live up to this world's expectations. And so we use statistics as well to prove that, wait a minute we're living unhealthy. Uh three men died by suicide 3 to 4 times likely as women. And this is another step that blew my mind that nine out of 10 people who lived to be over are women. And I started at that moment I started taking pictures chase of elderly couples when they were out, you would see the wife peppy moving around, you know with the running she was on or whatever and the man is on a walker, I mean literally he's using a walker to get around and they're the same age because that man has identified himself with what he does instead of who he is. When you allow men to be. We we we learn how to really see and then live boldly from who we really are, the good of who we really are. And that's when we we can truly transform into comprehensive men And I've seen it changed boys and even grown men fathers who were watching, who worked 17 hour days, you know, literally lawyers and doctors and then wonder why the relationships aren't there, the way they desire for their families. And then when I talk to these men and give them a safe space, they break down crying because they're so tired of not being able to say they're tired. Every man I talked to, I don't care what ethnicity we all agree that something is wrong with the way we've been conditioned to uh live as men and they're just tired of it now. Yeah, I think you're what you share matches my observations and my behind closed doors conversations with so many men in my life, those senior to me, those that I mentor. Um, and uh, that's one of the reasons I was attracted to your work because it was different was different than what the common um, you know, stereotypical talk track is uh yeah, I was moved by an early book of yours Cry like a man fighting for freedom and emotional incarceration. Uh, nearly 2005 star reviews on Amazon for anyone who cares. Uh, when I saw you had a new book Battle cry, uh, I'm wondering if you can help us understand that the um The arc from doing the work that you did the viral video in 2016 writing Cry like a man. And now what was what was the essence of that narrative and then how you know, what was the the next jumping off point that made you want to uh, to write Battle cry. Okay, you asked some good questions, man, I'm a professional. I'm a professional. Okay. So I'll just like this talk, talk to me about the progression, you know? Yeah, I got it. I'm just joking man. Really good question. No. Um, so what's interesting? So that viral video, So we have a nonprofit called the Union in Detroit where we serve youth and families in metro Detroit. When that video went viral, my wife calls me, she says, hey, is something on the internet of something because our phones won't stop ringing. I said, I don't know, I put videos up all the time because back in 2016 viral videos are rare. Okay. And would you believe we had to shut our office is almost completely down for two days because of the people who were calling. Now this is interesting. The majority of people who were calling were men. And I used to think it was just a black man's issue because that was my community and that's the issue was going on in this country. We're always looking through this world just through our lens. I always prayed and let me see what others see so that I can have compassion and understanding when I start answering the phone and my wife and our assistance hear people from men from Germany Australia all over the world, different walks of life. I'm like, whoa. And they were all saying I'm tired of trying to be tough all the time. Already proved that and I'd be more of a human and I'm like, man, something is here. And then I said, hmm everyone says be strong like a man to fight like a man. But no one ever says cry like a man and that's what prompted me. I said, our men are emotionally incarcerated and that's a self imposed sentence where we all know what this sale of this prison cell looks like. Um and what's crazy is that this Sale Chase has an open door and every man we know, I don't care who you are. We know we can get up on for that bed and walk out at any given moment, but we choose to stay there because here it is a good guy who doesn't want to be a bad guy anymore. Here it is a good guy who don't want to, I don't want to hurt people anymore. And he's tired of hurting himself, being disappointed. He's tired of having to keep hearing the negative words of his father or his mother. And so I like a man was my transparent journey from breaking free from this incarceration that had me living a miserable life. Battle crime is to teach men how to stay free. So once you break free that I don't want to say that's the easy part. But the hardest part is staying free. It's just like when you lose a lot of weight if you're working out exercising you're fighting, you'll find out real quickly. The hardest part will be trying to keep that way off. So battle cry so many men reason I chose battle cry because it's a shout and intimidating shout that soldiers used when they go to war. So many men, good men are suffering in silence and I'm encouraging man through this book and my transparency and my journey and using all the mental spiritual weapons that have worked for me to encourage them to yellow battle cry and finally stopped getting so focused on what's out here, what's in front of you and deal with the greatest war you ever faces, The one in you. And that's how I came from the video to cry like a man to battle cry because men were asking me, I love cry like a man, but how do you do it? How do you maintain? And I tell him I said, hey man, it's a daily fight. I wage war within myself every day. You know, I'd be, I'm ready to snap it if someone cuts me off at the road, you know, I want to fight. If someone do this, you know, I get it, my wife would say something that makes me angry and I could walk around the house not speaking like a child, but me and my wife, we've grown past that and I've learned, we've learned how, what battle cry, the tools I'm giving me an is to teach you how to communicate in a way where your wife can recognize your heart instead of your fists instead of your yelling. So when we become vulnerable. So man, the biggest fear they said, well man, what if someone takes advantage of you? That's a great blessing. That's what do you mean? You now know that that person isn't ready to receive your love, isn't ready for your friendship, isn't ready for your loyalty, but you don't ever go back to being the person that you don't want to be. You know, one thing I often say is be the lamb and the lion, one of my kids who was bullied, you know, he thought that all you could be was a lamb, you know, he's a christian young kid, beautiful personality, but he was bullied and never, he thought standing up for himself was wrong. A lot of times when I help kids overcome being bullied, I have to warn them to not become the bully because that can happen. So here it is, you've been the trauma you've experienced, makes your heart hardened and now you've become what you hated, what you feared. Even I tell the kids become the lion, defend yourself, become the lions. Stop letting people in your job, uh intimidate you out of a new position, become the lion, speak up in a situation where your family is being taken advantage of, but quickly reset back to the land as soon as possible, we draw upon the lion when we're in fight or flight. And that's the brain's response to acute stress? You can't stay there once you've calmed everything down, you reset back to the land as men, How many of us rather have peace than war. But when we only are masculine, the only thing we again we can draw upon is this bravado. And just and it's it's so it's wearing men down. It's just like, look here, I'm tired, tired of this. And like joe called it Rogan. He called it a facade of masculine facade. Bs and we all as men know it because when you get along with the man and he's really struggling. He had a breakdown crying, but he won't show those tears to the public. And that's emotional incarceration. It's extraordinarily well framed. And I think that's part of where culturally we've completely missed the boat is the framing of of the the argument of the point. And you talked a lot about humanity. What I heard you talk about is the tools. And so I want to shift our conversation if we can too two tools because you know the old saying, you can give a man a fish or you can teach him to fish and obviously learning to fish is infinitely more valuable because you've got, you can create that, that existence for yourself rather than at the hands of someone else. So if we are to talk about tools, what are some of the key tools that you teach that again for people listening or watching whether you are um regardless of gender. Uh either knowing how to employ these or observing the employment of these tools and others I think can be beneficial. Can you talk to me about some of the tools that you aim to instill in the boys and men that you work with? So as you were asking that question, I was pulling up what I call the feeling wheel. I keep it on my phone and this is what I want. All of your listeners to google is called. The feeling Will F E L I N G Will and it's by a psychiatrist named Gloria Wilcox. And so this is when I get a call it exercise digging for gold. I talk about it in battle cry digging for gold because a lot of times when you have conflict between two males, we're never going to say the real emotion behind the action, you know? So instead of saying you hurt, we'll say man, you piss me off, you understand. So I teach men and males. Let's go a little deeper. And so the feeling with what I love about it at the center of it, you'll find the typical emotions as men that were expressed like anger, um happiness, sadness, being surprised or fearful. That was typically we're okay navigating through those. But in the second tier it lets us know what sad really is is lonely is vulnerable, it's despair, depressed, hurt and guilty. So if we go to the third tier of this will now we can say, you know what I feel abandoned man, I feel fragile, I'm grieving the loss of my loved ones. I feel so powerless. I need someone to help build me up. Do you see how we get past the shallowness and when we start digging deeper now it allows not only for you to find emotional freedom, it opens up the person who is listening to you to share the same. And so now you have two men sharpening each other instead of just polishing each other. Um if there were swords, it's one of my favorite proverbs. Iron sharpens iron. So as one man sharpens another, what has happened in the society because we have to look a certain way when we pull our swords out, we gleaming with shining but we have no sharp no blade to us, no edge because we don't allow the friction that happened between brothers. We don't allow us encouraging each other to work through these emotions and become a better man. So when the struggles come, the addictions, the drugs, whatever pornography, we try to cut at it and our swords get stuck. And so that's why I tell me to avoid polishing partners and gravitate toward the men who will encourage you to become sharper's man. And that's one of the main tools, especially with young boys and young men, they said, wow, that's that's really how I really felt. But I'm only only feel comfortable with either showing anger or uh, some type of fear, but fear typically looks like anger when a man expresses it. And so that's one of my main tools I love using for men as far as the marriage. Um, one thing that helped my wife and I, because we were gonna get separated in 2000 and 15 man and I never forgot I wanted to spend time with my son more time with him because I prayed for him and I, you know what? Father doesn't really want a son. And so my wife sitting at the kitchen table chase and I said, you know, I really want to spend time more with little J. My wife simply responds says, uh, I wish you would. I can't wait for you to desire to spend that type of time with me. All that I heard was this is something else I'm doing wrong why? It's never good enough. Okay. Before I knew it chased, I was yelling at the top of my lungs and I hit our refrigerator so hard to put a dent in the stainless steel. My wife at that moment, she was trying to explain herself and I started yelling at the top of my lungs and I literally saw my wife just continent's just get lower and lower and lower and she sat down as she was sitting down. I felt so convicted man, here it is. I would risk my life for her. I would do anything for her. And in that moment, because I couldn't control my emotions, my emotions were mastering me. I'm tearing down the only person who has my back like my mother did and that's my wife at that very moment. I knew something was wrong with me and I needed to get help. So that's when I went to psychotherapy, guy name is dr tim bro. He taught us how to recognize each other's intent and not get caught up in the world. And so what I mean by that chases my wife and I we've agreed that we know that we love each other and that we do not desire to hurt each other. So that's like a foundational principle in our marriage. So whenever there's a little conflict of disagreement, we know you're not trying to harm me. So we're able to talk to this and then start laughing. We no longer, I mean, don't get me wrong, we would go a day or two without speaking when we were young. But now we quickly reset because we understand the power of reconciling immediate and we're able to move on. And then when I say we haven't had an argument like, you know, we haven't we haven't had one of those men in years because I know this woman isn't trying to hurt me. And then what's more important for the men who are listening start expressing, get this feeling will out and start expressing your true emotions. So if your wife is questioning your lead, questioning your leadership over the finances and you're doing a decent job or she's just maybe a little fear or she hasn't let go of a mistake you've made. Instead of saying, making me mad, you're pissing me off. You always got something to say. Say wow Stacey. Um, it really hurts me to know that you don't trust me as your, that right there allows a woman to drop her guard because again, from my understanding and my faith in the bible, that woman was created into a relationship. Adam was into work. So you have a man, if you only masculine, you can't even really communicate with each because all you used to be doing is doing things. So what did our fathers say? Chase? Uh, well, I don't have to tell you. I love you. You see food on the table, don't you? Your lights are on, don't you? I love you. That's how you know, that's not good enough for women. And so when you're only locked into that, what can you do? So when a man says starts showing these other emotions what he's really feeling for me, I'm gonna speak for myself and the men that I know the wives gravitate towards it because remember, you know, I don't know about you man. But when my mom, she was at my games or whatever and would yell my name, I would run through a wall when we get married man. It wasn't meant for us to lose the nurturer bro. Our wives have that in them, but we don't allow them to nurture us. And as men, you know, we love seeing the movies and the pictures of the king or whomever laying his head on the queen lap. We have to allow them to love us. And that will be transitioned into that spaceman. When I say my marriage changed it completely changed. It was so bad. A friend of mine whose son had cancer man and uh this wasn't playing. We just started working through this stuff together because when I say he's lying, he's all lying. Okay, provides for all his Children strong. And I mean whatever every sense of the lion he is. But when his son got ill, none of that strength, courage. All that. It starts fading away because now you're dealing with the heart issue. You're dealing with other emotions that the lion isn't really used to. So he started crying and what was so beautiful. His wife put her arm around him and said, it's OK, baby. That was really one of the rarest times where she could see him cry. But he called me and says, man that really felt good And when you give more of my brothers were listening that opportunity, man. We talked earlier about giving our women the world that they desire as well and deserved when you allow a man when we can because we got to understand this too. And I hope I'm not just going everywhere, but so many thoughts ahead of me. We always say how men have been conditioned to believe certain things and who they are. So have our women, our women have been conditioned through mass media to believe that this is only a man. And because of that, we both have to unlearn these talks toxic thought patterns. And when that happens in a marriage man, um, not only the home becomes better and more at peace, the workplace, the society, the neighborhood. And so that's why I implore the men listening to do now is get that feeling wheel download it, save it on your phone. Like I do whenever I'm upset, I got those four or some charts have six emotions of core. I want to dig deeper man, so that I can articulate what I'm really feeling. It's it's very powerful to listen to you frame the conversations in the, in the way that you have the feeling will is something I learned from your work. Um it brings me back to uh something called Nonviolent Communication, which is something I've studied and it's essentially something similar around how to understand the emotions and the complexity and a handful of different emotions which are, you know, fear, I'm scared, I'm angry, you know, these basic paradigms that I think the feeling well actually does a better job with because you can, as you articulated earlier, peel back the onion and realized that sad is actually lonely vulnerability to spare guilt, depression or pain. It's if you're out there and you have the ability to pull this up on your phone while you're listening, please don't do it if you're driving. But this is a very powerful uh power powerful tool. Um and I would also encourage people to check out nonviolent communication is a mechanism for communicating in a in a way that is not at that elevated lion state, it's more neutral, it's not lion or lamb. So thank you for sharing that part of uh part of the work that I have seen from you, especially with Battle cry, I mean, the subhead of Battle cry is waging and winning the war within Mhm. I had a phrase that I refer back to all the time, that the most important words in the world are the ones that we say to ourselves. And I was wondering if you could talk to us about the work that you do and how you what the dialogue. It's almost like a before and after. Picture of that internal dialogue um that you hope to achieve in the boys and men that you work with. Give us like before and then after they had followed your your work, you know, juxtaposed those two things. Let me see if I can do it, we can maybe Thailand to into communication. I have a chapter in battle cry called combat communications. And this was, I was taught when I trained under a Vietnam war that just about urban combat training. His main martial, I believe was Kemppel, but he was not teaching us that and it was much deeper and we often wearing like real life situations, combat communication. So a scenario, Let me give you an example. So, um, I'll show you the before Jason and then after Jason in this story. So, um, I love how you're willing to use yourself first. Thank you for for using yourself as an example is very, the ability to be vulnerable like that is just such a strong, that's a strength in itself. Sorry, continue. Yes, Thank you. Yeah. So we are nonprofit and just purchased a 15,000 square foot building and on the third floor they had a basketball court and basketball rims And so my son wanted to play. So we went and played one day when we were leaving. You know, I, I dropped my guard, typically I'm very vigilant and alert when I'm in a new community, but this time I wasn't and when I went to lock the door and as I was locking the door and taking my key out, I hear a voice say to me, they're trying to kill me. And so I looked to my left and it was a younger man on a cell phone. So since I'm licensed to carry my life feel threatened? I draw my gun. I said, who's trying to kill you? And he said they're coming around the corner and sure enough it's the suburban with three guys in it, coming around the corner towards my son And I, the old Jason we lose started shooting where I was emotionally because I would be I would allow the emotion of fear to overcome. I would have started shooting and then grabbed my son and ran. Okay because I saw an approaching threat instead of that I steal my soul so I can maintain self control and started analyzing the situation like Doctor Strange did in the a vengeance. I forgot like 14 million options he had and he gave the ring Mcdonald's this whole time man. I'm processing which way to go, what to do. Why is he on the cell phone? Who is he talking to? This car is going this way I gotta get my son back inside. Now I shift back. I did those emotions and now I have to get my son inside. We hadn't changed the locks yet. Chase. So you know I get to fidget around to get it just right and engages. You can open it. That's the situation and now I see this truck coming. I'm able to steal my emotions enough to stay calm. Keeping my eye on the guy perfume on the guy on the phone, get my son inside the old Jason, I knew where I came up. You know, people say why didn't you just run inside with your son and just waited, waited until it passed. I said no where I grew up guys would come in and kick the door and if they wanted something, so the best option to keep my son safe was to tell him to go to the back of the building just in case they started shooting. The bullets will have a less chance to get to him, but he didn't know he knew something was wrong. So in that moment case I'm looking at my son's eyes. I want to cry. I'm scared. The old Jason would have let the tears flow. I love you. So you know, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I love you. If I would have done that, my son would have said dad, I can't leave you now. He would have put his life in danger. But I stayed calm. His son go to the back of the building. I will see you soon. I just want to make sure this situation is good. He goes to the back of the building. Here comes the guys are getting a weaver stance, use my truck in front as a barricade just in case they start shooting and they do another U turn and then the guy on the phone man runs off towards the car as I suspected who talks on a cellphone and people are trying to kill you in your station. It Yeah, during the middle of all of that because I was the old Jason had died. The emotional one, the one who was a slave towards emotion is the one who would not be punked out or any of that stuff. I said wait a minute he's talking to the guys in the truck and then after the situation had died down, I saw the fact that I had a brand new UConn out front and they were trying to carjack and passed me because I had a gun. They changed the plan and this is the key. Most men, I know a lot of men go through a lot of situations, especially my friends who are veterans, they have ptsd because they're still holding on to the trauma that has happened at war or my friends who are police officers who hold on the trauma they experience every day. When I went home I sat in my living room, my wife Nicole asked me, she says, are you okay? You know everything is fine. I'm like I'm not, I just need a moment to release. So as men were again the bravado machismo, I'm good baby, it was okay. I took care of all that. We're fine when I got jail, I embrace them and hug them. When we got home I sat in the chair and started crying. I was overwhelmed with so much that had happened and that one, there was maybe 15 minutes span that I needed to release it to em battle cry. I have a concept of four ours where men reflect on what had happened, release everything that's causing them to feel toxic, anything that's taking them the wrong way. Because again some things that are sorrowful we need to reflect on and keep so that we can change. Like if we were disrespectful to our wife or woman or co worker so we need to keep that sorrow so that we can go back and apologize after we reflect and release were able to reset to norm, back to the land, back to a place of steadiness and once those three hours are in place now a man can find rest. So the old Jason would have held all of that on. I would have been short temper. I would have had a temper with my wife and short response with my wife brother. What you mean? I just went through this, what you're talking about how my feeling. I just didn't. I tell you what happened, I had to pull a gun on this is that I just need to break. Why you always ask the question. That's because my capacity is too full. So I walk around with the way my boss talked to me, the way my friend treat me whatever, etcetera, failure. Now my capacity is to the top and I have no room for tolerance for anything. That's the old Jason, a new Jason as soon as something happened, which things will always happen, I release, I reflect released reset so that I can rest. Yeah, amazing. Um Yeah, well you've given us a lot and I'm taking some notes and again, we'll take some of these nuggets out will make little pieces to share so that your message can continue to spread and we'll make notes with the show notes. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the trauma. You've used that word numerous times throughout our conversation. You've talked about it in terms of veterans, you've talked about it how arguably from what I know about trauma and studied as a person who cares about human growth and development that we all have it. I'm wondering the role that, how do you put trauma in your system and clearly you've talked about processing it. Um I'm just wondering if you can uncover that a little bit more overtly for us, what, what role you, you know, where does trauma come from and what role it plays in your ecosystem? You talked about the ours that can aim to let it go. But give us the precursors. Yeah. So basically anything that's like traumatic that happens to you like for instance. So I'm gonna use myself again. So in the african american community where I grew up, the community I grew up in, you know, um we will often take getting shot like a badge of honor you even hear it if you listen to hip hop, it's like you know, it just comes along with the terror Toons and unfortunately I lost two brothers to homicide, you know, both were murdered. Um and prior to that we just deal with intergenerational trauma, trauma has passed on throughout generations. My grandfather was next okay, not my great grandfather or great great grandfather, my grandfather because of the police lynching him in fort pierce florida. And then uh just racially just terrorizing his family after he died. My mother's, my mother and her siblings, all of them and I don't consider this a coincidence, it was of them developed dementia, one of them was alcoholic and the other one died from cancer. They could not release the hate, the anger, just everything that they went through with that entire situation. And because of it I've seen my mother have a nervous breakdown twice in front of, so that's the impact, especially in the black community of how even people, you know, use some people just want slavery, Get over it. They clearly don't have an understanding of how trauma is in our DNA. Okay. And so even in my book, cry like a man, I love my editor because she was like actually it was after I submitted it with her, it was a guy on there and he was white and I appreciated his, his uh input. He says, hey, can you share why it's difficult for, why do you think it takes so difficult for black men to really express himself? I think that would be good to add in the book. I said, okay, cool. And I thought about it a little history, some study and talk to friends of mine who are historians. It makes sense. Could you imagine again, regardless of ethnicity, where what just if you're just masculine, you go back to that era. It wasn't just black fathers who didn't tell their kids they love them during that era. It was white with whomever, because they were only conditioned to be a certain way saying love or showing any emotion outside the toughness was weakness. Could you imagine as an african american man, you're baby is getting auction off to the highest bidder. You want to go fight, you want to kill the people who are doing this, but you can't because you have a wife, you have some more kids that you can keep and take care of. So now you're talking about a greater suppression of anger, resentment, bitterness, seeing your friends lynched from on trees, that stuff gets carried on. If it's not released from you, it gets carried over into the next generation. So I'm real quick, I'm gonna dive into my brother's of another mother, Those of different ethnicities, Look at your father's role models, Humphrey Bogart john wayne and we're talking about the way our women are treated. You know a friend of mine who's irish american was saying j don't get fooled by the pretty house. Uh the father, the mom, the sister and the cars, he says it looks great but there's abuse in my house. So you hold that in your next thing. You know, you're wondering why that man is beating his wife or doesn't know how to treat his kids. So that's what trauma does when it's unreleased. It travels throughout generation, affecting the next generation and the next for me when I came up, you're familiar with tupac right? Of course. Are you okay? Good, Making sure. So the same the same, the same was he made popular was called the thug life and I never was a thug. So let's get that clear. Um I tried to be one or I played the role of one because again the hyper masculine blackmail was the gold standard in my community. If you didn't look tough, you wouldn't get the girl, you got lucky you have money. I mean whatever you can tie to that that name, that's what I tried to be. It took me until I developed the cave until I started working with boys. Young men and men to really understand what the thug was. So I created an acronym a thug is a traumatised human, unable to greet again t doug h I mean th traumatised human nature, human, unable you g to grieve. And when I look at the young boys, I meant to those who are in gangs, those who come up to those who have tattooed tears on their face, can't cry physical tears, why make you look weak? So let me get them tattoo, which either means sorrow or you kill someone, you lost someone who died or you took someone's life, all of this grief is coming out of us, hence while you will see uh you know this rage that throughout this country right now because of so much the scene that we take in and we don't release and that's how trauma affects us. And so what I do again, I apply to forearms and I love using martial arts as a way to teach men what this process actually looks like. So if I'm fighting you chase and you're fast and you hit me a few times in my abdomen or or my jaw and I stay with the fact that you hit me, I can't let go of the blow. I said man, he's fast, he hit me, I can't believe hit me in my jaw hit me and my my abs if I stay there now there's more punches coming my way because I'm thinking on what had happened instead of dealing with what's about to happen, so I tell me and let go of the blow, no matter what's happening, even my grandfather would say son it's it's great that you never forget but you gotta learn how to let go or you'll never be able to live like my Children could. So I literally saw what happens to humans when they do not release the traumatic things that have happened in their lives. So in fighting, the same thing if you stay with, if you hit me or I hit you chase, that could be a death of a loved one your father passed or your son or daughter is terminally ill. You lost your job, whatever it is, if you don't let go of that, you're gonna lose that fight because more is coming. Everyone knows, you know, as soon as you step out your door, things are going to come. The only way we can survive. Yes, of course you can't just suppress that or repress it, you reflect on it. So in combat communication as two fighters which I talk about battle cry, I start downloading what you can do, man. Oh he's pretty fast or I throw a faith. Oh he moved on that. Okay. Maybe he doesn't have too much confidence in his defense. So now I start downloading what's happening so that you can't do what you do to me anymore in life when things happened negative things or if it affects you a wrong way you download it and move differently when you see it again. Remember what happened when I move this way? He was quick with his jab. I need to move this way. Oh I saw what happened that time when I thought of a great idea at work. Uh he took my idea and took it to the boss. Like he created it next time. I'm just gonna write that down and give it to my boss. Anything with trauma. I remember when I lost my brother, I suppressed all my emotion. I didn't even cry at my brother's funeral. Now when I lose a loved one like that, I don't care if it's natural or tragic. I let it all out. I cry as much as I can because I understand what dr William Frey, a biochemist discovered about tears that they not only contain water with tears from emotional pain and traumatic event, but they contain stress hormones and that's why we feel so much better or a little better after crying. So that's my process. Chase of just what trauma is, what it does and how I overcome it and become the best version of myself every day, beautifully articulated. Thank you Jason. Um man, the work that you're doing it seems so simple yet so avant garde and it feels like um I'm first of all, I'm grateful. Second of all, part of the reason I want you on the show is because we need to understand more of this if we're going to um we're going to hell as a culture, we've done a lot of violence on our culture to ourselves and to others because of a lot of the stuff that you're sharing. Ah two lighten the mood a little bit. I want to talk about the work that you're doing in context of of current times. And I understand that um there may or may not be, maybe you can confirm this documentary film on your work if it started as a viral video and it's gone to books what you know, these ideas are clearly very powerful and you're obviously an amazing vehicle for sharing them. You know, what are some of what some of your future intent ah whether with the documentary or um or others. I'm just wondering where do you want to take this work? So people who are watching and listening might be able to become ah more involved in you and the work. Well, I mean they're the documentary man. Was uh the producer who found the cave of a dull um name is Roy Bank. He created a lot of great reality shows like you think you're smarter than 1/5 grader and I forgot the other ones. And it was two other producers man and I said, what do you mean you want to do the documentary or series all my life. And so again, so let's talk about trauma because of the bad things that happened to me man. I said, I don't trust you. Do you know I turned it down a couple of times, but he was respectfully persistent. He was respect, respectfully persistent. I said, okay, cool. My wife said, let's just entertaining. Let's fast forward so I won't take too long make a long story short after him shopping it and you know, taking it to certain people Laurence Fishburne sees the sizzle reel or the promo reel and he was really moved and he, they work together, work out a contract to sign me to do this documentary film on my life, which we finished before Covid and now it's being edited and should be released early next year on one of the top streaming platforms to imagine that viral video times 30. So it's following four of my recruits and myself and my assistant and it's, it's literally imagine flies with camera cameras, there's no script and it's beautifully shot. Um much props to the director, Lord Check away. It's gonna be phenomenal. And I'm so happy and Lawrence who's seeing majority of the edits right now. He says that he believes it's going to heal people from the inside out. And I said, wow. Really? He says, yeah, you have to get used to a new normal. I said, what do you mean says your life is going to change because you're not a celebrity, you're not an artist, you're closer to an activist, but you're more so a healer and people will do whatever it takes to get that healing and your whole thing is that they can attain it just by doing the work and so that's really exciting man to see. And then also the influence that I've had and cry like a man on the way coaches our coaching young men and fathers are being, you know outspoken about the affection they have for their Children. Um that really keeps me going because this journey gets hard when you constantly are dealing with people who are hurting, you know, you take that stuff on you, like who I'd rather do something else, you know, even though I love helping people, but it's like the entire day and then I see my wife who sees the Jason that well I should pretty much who I am. I'm pretty transparent, but she has to be there to console me and help me, it gets heavy on my heart to allow me the time to release. Another thing that was really encouraging man was the joe Rogan interview. Um, I didn't expect the response to be the way it was. Uh, and then just meeting him and how great of a guy he is. And he kept affirming me like, man, you know, we need more of, you know, get ready, you know, and I'm like, okay, when he aired the episode man, when I say my direct message Got flooded with men, truck drivers crying saying, man, I listened to the whole podcast, I haven't cried in 20 years, people saying, man, I need to talk to my Children differently, thank you. I mean on and on and on to see men. So you know what, I'm more than just this protector. I'm more than just putting food on the table. I am human and I want to start experiencing that only for myself. But letting my family see who I really am. And and that's just, that's what makes this, the hard work, the tears, just everything really worth it. When you can see men change in the greater beauty is when you see different men of different ethnicities. When you see all men like look, thank you, I needed this. Thank you. It confirms for me that this is a calling it God placed on me to do. It's heavy. Um, but I'd rather do this instead of what others are calling me to do. I'd rather stay focused on my one thing which is to teach, train and transform males into comprehensive men. And that's just what I live for. And I'm just honored to just play my role in this little time that I have here on earth to make a big difference. Wow, I, we've had several people on the show over the 12 now, 11, 12 year history who have absolutely transcended popular culture and in so many ways and I have a feeling this is you are in this in this uh moment right now and I also listen to the joe show and uh in preparation for our conversation today and your work is timely, it's meaningful to deep. Uh, and I think most of all it contributes to healing, which is what the world needs now more than ever. So one of the reasons I asked that question, it's just so that I can continue to know how your aspirations are going to continue to shape your work. And I'm inspired by you want to say, thank you very much our community here, the creator of the entrepreneur communities. Um, we have a lot to learn. And I think again, all genders, this has been amazingly insightful. I'm grateful for your time if there's anything you could request to the community. You know, obviously, I've talked, you know, we've talked about your new book, Battle Cry. Um, Cry Like a man, your other book. So we're good at this committee is good at rallying behind authors especially here and as their publication week approaches. And what is there anything else you want us to do or or how how can we how can we support you in your work as a, you know, where would you steer our attention? Um, as when we leave this conversation having been inspired by you and the work. Any parting words for us? Well, um, of course, you know, we have a nonprofit called the Union is spelled T H. Either. The union, we put a wire in front of it to differentiate ourselves from all the union locals in Detroit with them over the city. So it's to the unions. and so people were calling them instead of us. And I'm like, okay, that's part of why it's a silent y for you. But of course any donations of course help us with the work that we're doing in our metro Detroit and abroad. But for them, what I would love to share is everyone, you know, stop living from your fears and live from the good that's in your heart. And for men, the fear of looking bad, The fear of failure, The fear of the woman that's in front of you potentially can be your wife, but your fear of rejection won't allow you to approach him. Uh, the entrepreneur who wants to take that next step. But the fear of failing or losing it all. Of course you want to be wise. But if everything is there, you know, I tell people it was the same. My friend said before he got married, he said, uh, he was hesitant because he didn't have his finances, the house, you know everything that we want to have before we get married. He said, I just want my ducks in a row. And I looked at him. I said, man, when is the last time you seen ducks in a row? And he fell out laughing. He says, I've never seen that. And so I tell people that that story because so often we're waiting for that we could have 10 ducks in a row and waiting for that 11 duck to get in line and and he never does. But that's fear. Stop waiting for that. You know what you're feeling. I don't just say live from your heart because there's a lot of wickedness there as well. We know what I mean. If we're transparent is some bad thoughts we can have. I say the good in your heart, the world needs that live from that walk in that stop pulling back and just say, Hey, I'm tired of this mask. I'm tired of this box. I'm bigger than this. And that's when I realized what myself was just trying to play the role of trying to be this. My heart was too big for these limited titles and just I want to be comprehensive. I want to do more. So if you're listening live from what that good you feel. Don't live from the depression. Don't live from the deep sorrow that regrets the for your failure. Whatever it is, move past that stop waiting for all your ducks the line up in the road allow them to walk freely so that you can be liberated as well. No better way to end the show than on that phrase and I'm so grateful for your time. Thank you for sharing it so graciously with us for inspiring. Not just us, but so many others. And congrats on all the success. I'm very excited. Please consider me an ally. This show will forever back you and wherever you're going. Um, thanks again for your time and everybody out there in the world, please pay close attention to Jason and his work. Anyplace you steer them other than the union? Do you have someplace on the internet that you want us to know about? Jason? Um, people can follow me on social media. My handle is Mr Jason O. Wilson. It's M R J A S O N, the letter O. And then Wilson, W I L S O N. And that's across all social media platforms, awesome. Thank you so much. And everybody else in the world again, pay close attention, Jason. And uh, everybody out there, we bid you all do Jason. Thanks again so much. Thank you Chase so much. It's been a great time. Feel like I could talk more if I have to get my son, But thank you so much, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, my man. Of course. Mm Yeah. Yeah. Mm