Telling a Story with Pricing
So you've got to know your living wage but pricing isn't all about you. This goes back to that question of formulas again as well or what is an eBook supposed to cost. What's en eCourse supposed to cost? How much should wedding photography cost? There is no supposed to (laughs) and the formulas that we can come up, the guidelines that we come up with only go so far because those things are about you, they're from your business's perspective. This is what you need to make things work. But those things don't work if you're not considering your customer, if you're not considering how they view your pricing, how they view your product, how they view just what you're putting out into the world. Again, I know, broken record but these things are important. Price tells a story. What does it tell a story about? We've talked about this a little bit. Price tells a story about quality. Price tells a story about quality. The first thing I think of when I run into a price that I perceive as too low ...
is what's wrong with this, what's wrong with this. I used to give talks to Etsy sellers all the time and I would, and I was in Etsy all the time looking through listings constantly and very often I would see the full range of a market in five minutes time. I might be on a $300 pair of earrings, a $50 pair of earrings and a $5 pair of earrings all within a very short period of time and truthfully those earrings pretty much looked the same and once people have that kind of Etsy style photography down those products really look the same. And so I look at them and I look at the $300 earrings and then I look at the $5 earrings and I think about the $5 earrings, well what's wrong with them? If I buy those are they going to fall apart? Am I going to get them even? What kind of, are they gonna ship in some weird box? What is wrong with them (laughs)? Same thing goes with service providers. I mentioned I have lots of people who work with me who are life coaches or coaches of some sort, health coaches, life coaches, writing coaches and I know about what a decent life coach charges for a course, for hourly rates, all the different packages make things a little cloudy by I know about what the average coach charges for a session. So if I get a new client, someone who's new who's working with me and I scroll down their website and I look for their sales page and I look to see what their session costs and it's dramatically lower I think well what's wrong with you (laughs)? Not really what's wrong with you but maybe you're just starting out or maybe I think you're just starting out. Maybe you don't have enough experience yet. Maybe you don't realize how good you are or what you could do for me. Is that the kind of person I want to work with? Is that the kind of person you want to work with? Do you want the $50 an hour life coach who is just starting out or do you want the $150 life coach, the $200 an hour life coach? And I'm, there's all sorts of different things we can get other things that we can talk about there and I'm happy to talk about those things but at a very surface level and surface here is extremely important. You know people's attention spans right now. Very small. You need to think about what your prices tell about quality. What do your prices say about quality? What would people think when they see your prices? What would people think? Who would they relate you to? What competition would they relate you to? What would they relate you to that they've bought last month, last year? And what does that tell them about the quality of the experience that they're going to get? Another thing prices tells about, another story that price tells is about relationships. What's my relationship to you as a service provider? What's your relationship to me as a customer? Stores or businesses that charge very little have a perception that there's not much of a relationship. It's really transactional. You get this or you pay this, you get this and we're done. Businesses that have and products that have higher prices tell a different story about relationships. Maybe it's that I'm here for you. Maybe it's that I care about you, that you're part of my life now. Thank you for signing up for my premium coaching program. You now are an important part of my life. So and in this case quality could be a positive or negative thing. Relationship is not necessarily a positive or a negative thing and we're gonna talk about this more tomorrow but we can choose to have different kinds of relationships with different customers but price absolutely tells us something about that. Shawna, you mentioned in the pre-show that you've just started offering birth strategy sessions.
More like prenatal coaching.
Prenatal coaching, thank you. Birth strategy (laughs).
Which is good, too.
Yeah that's a niche we should explore (laughs). So prenatal coaching that are one off sessions or a small package as opposed to you working in the maternity ward, in the delivery room with someone and then working with them also a long period of time. I mean that is a.
Being on call for weeks.
Exactly, that's an extremely personal relationship.
A prenatal coach also has a good relationship with their customers but there are particular boundaries with those clients and those boundaries are indicated by the way you're delivering the service. This is a three session package. At the end of these three sessions you can opt for more but this is what we've got. And so price reflects the difference in those relationships. It's not that you necessarily care about one client more or less, this is not questions of human value, this is simply how does someone relate to your business. And so price tells a story about relationship absolutely. Sasha.
I'm just listening to what you're saying about coaching and packages and what I've learned I think that there are two schools of thought about how to do the sales process. One is that you have a package and prices on your website and then another is have the sales conversation and talk to the person about their needs and vision and then share what the price is which is the way I've been doing it.
So there is a story but it's not visible.
Yeah, yes and when you're having that sales conversation even though it's one person at a time when you mention the price the customer's automatically coming up with a story. Now in this case you're giving them an awful lot of context for that reaction that they have to the price but immediately as soon as you just say this package is $1,000 for two months there's a million things going on in that person's mind relating it back and forth to other things. Oh, well that's more than the other coach told me and less than that coach told me and so they're battling this range of stories that are going on and so that's just happening one person at a time and you are giving them a lot of context for it but it absolutely is still telling a story about quality, relationship and everything else. Yeah, Cindy.
In my copy I sort of spell out why you would want to purchase from me. Would you recommend that as a good way to tell it or do you think it should be so maybe a better example is why would you want to buy from me and I offer free lifetime repair, I offer this service, that service, free shipping, comes packaged like this. Do you recommend spelling all that out or do you feel there's another more abstract way to tell that story with the price.
Right so actually what I'm suggesting here is that this story is abstract to begin with, okay, so that when I see the price of your jewelry I might wonder, oh, well is shipping included with that because that's a good price. It's higher than what I might expect but lower than I've seen other places. I wonder if shipping's included or I wonder if repairs are included. And so I would say it's both and. Absolutely those are the kind of details to this story that you want to spell out because it reinforces the story that the dollar amount is telling but that dollar amount (laughs) is telling a story whether you reinforce those details or not. Make sense?
Cool. The next thing is competition. Price tells a story about our competition. In this case it's how we relate to our competition. I chose that $500 mark for my business strategy sessions not just because it was the right thing to charge for me. I probably could have gotten by with less but getting by with less put me in a different market competitively than where I wanted to be and where others were already putting me. So you know people were mentioning my brand alongside some other awesome business thinkers and so I could either choose to be the low end person in that group or I could chose to charge what they charge. What choice would you make, right (laughs)? Because then people are making a choice between us for all sorts of different reasons. You can get on my calendar in four to six weeks. Maybe you can't get on someone else's calendar for another three months so you choose me. Maybe it's that someone else's energy isn't working as well with you and you dig my energy more. I would hear that all the time. Well I loved this person and I loved this person and I love this blog but you are the right person for me. You are the one I know is thinking on the same wavelength as me. So when you chose to tell a story that's in line with the competition you want to be in line with there's a lot more other things then there's a lot of other stories you can tell, a lot of other nuance that you can offer up that allows people to make a more informed choice. Yes.
Guilt because Christina has joined us in the chat room, she's from Greece and she said she's an experienced guitar teacher, she's a musician, but when her students ask her for tuition she gives them her price they always say oh, you're way too high and it makes her feel so guilty that she starts coming back but surely she should have pride in her value.
Absolutely. This is a great question. Thank you, Christina. So this is a case where you need to be attracting more customers who have the same values that you have or the same values that your prices represent or that your products represent. So in this case you don't want to be teaching beginner students. Maybe you need to really focus on teaching more advanced students who have a personal value for quality, who have a personal value for relationship. Those are the people who aren't going to haggle you with prices and so therefore all that guilt goes away. And this is something I see in many many businesses. Oh I always feel bad when people tell me that they can't afford me. Then you need. (audience member speaking) Yeah (laughs).
Clearly something that comes up.
Yeah, if you feel bad when people tell you that they can't afford your work you need to stop having conversations about your work with those kind of people (laughs). And it's not like those kind of people like they're bad people. They just have different values. They just have different values. How do you explain to someone that it's better to spend $2 on organic asparagus as opposed to $1 on conventional asparagus. If someone doesn't have a value for health consciousness, eco consciousness, sustainability you cannot make that argument. So don't try with your own customers. Make sure you're using personal values. So all those personal values you just listed down in your workbook were all the personal values and we're getting to this that people are going to think about. When they think about your business make sure you're focusing on those people and you're telling stories, you're using marketing, you're using sales strategies, you're offering products that reinforce those personal values so you don't have to have those negative conversations anymore 'cause I know I hate that, too. I hate that, too. I don't want to have those conversations. I want people to be able to just say if they need to I love all the free stuff that you put out. I'm not ready to invest this with you now but when I am you're my woman. Those are the conversations I like to have. I'm not ready to make this investment yet. That's a much easier conversation to have. All the guilt goes away.
The guilt goes away. Now Alicia is asking what's coming up really. She's asking are we gonna get into how to find those customers that are on the same wavelength?
We are, cool.
Absolutely we're gonna talk a little bit about it now and we're gonna be talking talking about it throughout the three days and it's something I love talking about, too, so I'm always happy to talk about that. Yeah, Shawna.
So starting out in my business I didn't want to look like the new girl on the stage and there's a really healthy birth worker business in this area and so I to be competitive I priced myself right in the middle of where it was but to I just added more value to it. So I actually offer more than what my competition does for the same price.
And then if there was well I don't really need that part of what you offer then I could change my package based on that and now I'm looking at maybe as I get more experience, more clientele, more testimonials and I build my brand that my package will change without jumping up the price. It'll be taking out stuff. Those will be addition whereas now you get this freebie added into it. Is that?
Okay I just wanted to make sure.
That's a great solution. Another good solution for this and I knew someone was gonna ask about this, right, is that if you're just starting out don't work for cheap, work for free. People are always surprised when I say this but the damage that you do to yourself, to your brand, to your community when you work for cheap is so much greater than you taking five, 10, 20 clients for free. When you work for free there is an inherent understanding of exchange and you can, it doesn't even have to be inherent. You can lay it out. In exchange for me getting experience working with you you're going to give me a testimonial, you're gonna answer this survey. It doesn't even have to be positive. You can say you're going to give me constructive criticism, you're gonna tell me how you'd like this service to be different or you're gonna tell me what you've liked about this product to be different and in exchange for that information I am happy to deliver this to you for free. And then that way when you do really hang out your shingle and you say this is what I'm about, this is how much it costs, this is what I offer you don't need to feel like well I don't have much experience so I'm gonna be at the bottom of the market. You can enter strong and that greatly increases the positive reputation of your brand, absolutely. Alright and this thing that we've just been talking about for the last five minutes, values. Price tells a story about values. For me the price of my business or the price of the things that I offer in my business tell a particular story about people who value growing their businesses. This is not for the DIYer who is just getting started and wanting to learn how to do this or wanting to learn how to do that. Sure I've got some things in there for this but really my my personal values around business is around growth, is around real entrepreneurship and not just kind of like, I'm gonna sell this now. It's around freedom. It's around abundance. And my prices reflect those personal values. You want to think about what personal values do you have that are aligned with your customers and that allow you to price in a certain way that tells a story about those values. And as Tiffany was mentioning it is the number here that I'm talking about that is telling a story but there's all sorts of other ways that we can tell the story that reinforce these things as well. We can talk about the quality of our work. We can talk about the relationships we have with our clients. We can talk about the competition. It's true you can go and put on a telesummit with your competitors, you can do a media campaign with your competitors so that people start equating you in the same breath. Maybe for jewelry it's not I'm going to go and do a whole product spread of different jewelers. Maybe it's I want to be related to the competition that makes leggings and makes shirts and makes shoes and so you put those things together now you're talking about essentially competition. These people are competing for people's accessory dollars but they're also learning to equate your brand with those other brands. Exactly, it's collaboration, exactly. So what do your customers value? What do your customers value? What is important to them? What guides their buying decisions? Robin, in the pre-show Jay Cayo asked you about Flourish and Thrive and I would say that Flourish and Thrive as your business name absolutely reflect personal values that your jewelry owner customers jewelry business owner customers have. They want to flourish and they want to thrive. They want to have lifestyles that are easy and abundant and full of richness probably in many different ways that those are all personal values that they have and the name of your business just says it right there. And so then when I equate those personal values with the name of your business and the brand story that you have and then I look at those prices that you have, I look at the price of your program, I look at the price of an eBook or a consulting session, can I say that's consistent with all of those other personal values? I'd say you guys do a great job of that, of making that consistency happen. But when that consistency doesn't happen, say you're priced super cheap or maybe say you're priced super high and those things feel inconsistent to me, it makes your customer uncomfortable. When the values that you're putting out aren't reflected in the price tag people get uncomfortable and uncomfortable customers don't buy. Repeat it with me now, no (laughs). Uncomfortable customers don't buy and discomfort happens so fast. Discomfort happens so fast. When they see that price it happens in a split second. Everything else seemed so good and then I got to the price and it made me uncomfortable. Got to the price and it made me uncomfortable. They won't say that to you. It'll look different. It'll look different but that's what's happening. Another question, why would people be willing to spend more on what you have to offer? Why would your customers be willing to spend more on what you have to offer? Absolutely it goes back to personal values but now I want to ask you guys, why would your customers be willing to spend more on what you have to offer? Tiffany.
Probably the quality of my materials.
And a lot of those things I throw out there. I offer free repairs. You can get one replacement earring if you lost one. You get that.
Really, that's awesome.
I lose stuff all the time.
Right, I get that request all the time so I'm like hey, here you go, you lost some of your earrings, yeah.
So service, so the personal value here is people have a value for service. They want to feel like they are taken care of. That's what's important to them. It's not the feature 'cause what you're telling me is features, right. You've got all these features which are great and which mean a lot to me. These are tangible things that I can use to make a decision about but what's really going on here is that you want customers who like being taken care of.
Who like feeling that luxury.
And that connection.
Yeah and the connection, absolutely.
Like knowing where their product 'cause you can't go somewhere else and do that. They feel like oh hey yeah you're servicing me.
So right now you're focusing on these particular features, earring replacement, free repairs but then if those things are important and you know those things are related to this value of connection and service or luxury experience how do you take that and you make it consistent throughout the whole rest of your brand?
I am having a hard time with (laughs).
Right, exactly. So does your graphic design reflect that desires for connection and luxury experience? Does your eCommerce solution, I think we just had a conversation about this, right? Does your eCommerce solution reflect that desire for luxury experience?
I didn't even think my name did which is why I'm changing it to Tiffany and Studios 'cause there you go it's me. So yeah, going through that whole process made me go oh well wait a minute, what I'm selling and what I'm expressing is not visually being represented.
And all of that reflects price. When you take the time to make everything else consistent you absolutely also must take into account what that does for your pricing. Rebranding for you might mean you start charging $20 more for every pair of earrings you sell.
Because I really need to (laughs).
Well because you really need to but also because it makes sense from your customer's perspective because it's what they expect. We have to consider the vastness of our marketplace. This is another thing that people often forget as well. So in having a conversation about values, in understanding what your customers expect and what's important to them and how your pricing tells them a story about all of that. So often we have a very narrow focus on what's available to us in terms of pricing. So a pair of earrings doesn't just go for $5 to $100. There are earrings out there that go for thousands of dollars and not just because they're all blinged out on jewels but maybe it's because of who designed them or the particular design, what it means to the customer. So one of your big homework assignments for today is going to be thinking about the vastness of your marketplace, all the different levels of what people are willing to spend. So web design for example. How much does it cost to set up a simple Wordpress site? What could you pay someone to do that for you? Maybe $200. I haven't looked into this in a while but I think that's about where it is right now. Alright, so that's bottom end. Someone else will set you up online for about $200. What if you want to lightly customize a Wordpress theme? Maybe have someone stick your logo in there and change the color scheme a little bit? That could cost $100, it might cost all the way up to $1, depending on who you get, what you want done, whatever. So now we're $200, $1,000. What about to build a custom Wordpress theme? What does that cost? What is the cost to build a child theme on top of Genesis or Woo or whatever? It might cost $6,000, it might cost $10,000. What about creating custom web solutions? It easily $20,000, often way more than that. All of this is web design. All of this gets your customer, gets your client online, puts their business online. Where do you want to be? There's no right answer here. The point is you have to make a choice. Do you want to set up simple Wordpress sites? Do you want to build custom web solutions? Maybe your skills put you somewhere in the middle. That's fine, the point is you have to make a choice and the only way you can make an informed choice is to know the full range of the market. Let's talk about jewelry. Mass production or component jewelry might cost $10 to $50. These are the people who are really good at taking existing parts and putting them together and making something look cool. You can find a gazillion of these shots on Etsy. It's a really competitive market and that's about the price range you're gonna get out of it. Micromanufactured jewelry with inexpensive materials. So this could be it could be sterling silver, it could be bronze, it could be gold plated things. And there is people who are either making them in their own studios or maybe who are getting things, having their production outsourced. That might cost $75. It might go all the way up to $300. It could be more than that, too, but that's about a good price range for that. Hand-crafted jewelry with fine materials. This is someone, this is a trained metalsmith working with really great materials. Could cost $500. Could cost all the way up to $3,000. What about fine metalsmithed jewelry like really really good stuff. These are people working at the top of their game. It'd be $5,000 or more. Again, there are no right answers here. The what you need to figure out is where you want to choose to be in the market and make business decisions that make sense with that. Life coaching life coaching. And this is good for anyone who does one-on-one anything. This is a good range of your market. Bottom of the market for life coaching is actually self-help books, right, because if you look at solutions the solutions are the same or the goal of the solution is the same. The questions are the same. The problems are the same. Sasha coaches on quirkiness and dating. She also has a book on quirkiness and dating. Same market, same questions, same solutions. Self-help books maybe $12. Maybe $2.99 on Kindle (laughs). Then you've got your group programs. Group programs might be $300. And you've got your one-on-one coaching. Maybe that's a $2,000 package. Maybe it's a $5,000 package. Year-long mastermind, easily $20,000. Now that might include a retreat and a trip and a this and a that but still, questions are the same, problems are the same, the goals are the same but it's where you chose to be in the market. It's where you want to line up with the customers who have the values that you have, the values that you want to support. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's where you choose to be. So, tell me what fears do you have about what your customers are willing to pay? Get on Twitter, get on Facebook, get in the chatroom and tell me what fears do you have about what your customers are willing to pay. If we don't talk about this stuff together we can't bust through it and then all of the wonderful things that I can tell you about value pricing, all of the wonderful things about business models don't matter. So we need to have a conversation about this. So this is me asking you to have a conversation with me. What fears do you have about what your customers are willing to pay? Tiffany.
I am terrified that I will tank my business if I raise my prices. I mean, I know it needs to happen. I actually get told by people, wow, you're really inexpensive (laughs) but I am, yeah, I'm terrified. That scares me.
Really in sympathy with you on that one. Sophia Oria's asking something very similar. She wants to maintain authenticity in her business relationships but she's also scared of losing them if she prices herself out.
Absolutely. This is a great point. So let me go back to the story that I shared in segment one of moving my own hourly wage from $25 an hour to $500 an hour. The way I did it almost, no, I think every single time was to double it. So I doubled it to $50, I doubled it to $100, I doubled it to $200. No, somewhere in there I made the jump to $250 (laughs) and then I doubled it to $500. Every single time I doubled my prices my, I got more business, more people would contact me, my availability went way down because people were more interested because they associated me raising my prices with me being more effective at what I did. Now, jewelry it's not a question of effectiveness. Jewelry it's a question of what kind of worth are people putting on this work. What if instead of people saying to you, wow, you're jewelry's really so expensive instead the conversation started to become I am so glad to be able to invest in your work. I am so excited about this purchase. Would that feel better?
It would feel wonderful, yes, absolutely that like gave me chills (laughs).
That's the conversation I want your customers to be having with you and maybe will price some people out, that happens, but maybe you'll price a whole new group in and I think that that's what we really often forget about when we're considering raising our prices which is our next segment, when do I raise or lower my prices. But it's what we forget. When we price people out we're allowing other people to be priced in, people who wouldn't have bought from us before. And the people we're pricing out probably have different values or they have different buying habits or they have different stories that they're telling themselves. We're not responsible for that. We're responsible to ourselves and to the people who do want to be purchasing from us. Robin.
Testimonials play such a big part of that and even Yelp, which is kind of a go-to place, you look at the stars, you look at what people saying but I think that also coming from jewelry or coming from anything people place a lot of value on the testimonial aspect of it, too, which I think is really wonderful.
Yeah, and one thing people look for in testimonials is not only does this person help people like me but is this, can I see myself in this other person? Not just the solution, not just the problem but is this someone I'd want to hang out with on a Friday night? I mean, we don't literally ask ourselves those questions but that's what's going on in your customer's mind. That person's like me. I could imagine being with that person. I could imagine us being friends. That tells people something about you, about what you value, about the work that they're going to receive from you. Absolutely. Sasha.
When you listed out the levels of service I guess for coaching my preference would be to be in the two higher categories and most of my audience are people who can't afford that and I don't necessarily want to lose those people because they're also the readers of my books and I care about them, you know, I mean they're people. They don't need to go away. But the fear is how do I reach these other people who would really give me the life I want to have is to have more time to write and if I try to service a mass audience I can't do that. It just doesn't work.
And you can have that conversation with your customers. The nice thing about making an intentional choice about where you are in the market is that when you choose, let's say you start doing a year long $20,000 tango mastermind, it's the wet tango mastermind, it happens all over the world coming soon to a tango something near you. I know you have a fancy word for it (laughs). When you do that you're not turning off low-end buyers. Those low-end buyers will still be there to buy your books and oh my gosh will they be excited about it. I just bought this new book, it's from this woman who travels around the world teaching people tango for thousands and thousands of dollars and she helps them do this and she helps them do that and I love her and she is so awesome and her new book just came out. And can I recommend it to you? So you're not gonna turn those people off but if all you ever do is launch $15 eBooks on your website are you ever going to attract the customers who would do a wet tango year-long mastermind? No, you will turn those customers off. That's the interesting thing about choosing to go higher end is you don't tend to turn off lower-end buyers. They just look at your brand differently. They get something different out of it. It becomes aspirational. Being an aspirational brand is a beautiful thing. I understand that fear totally and I think you can choose to work through it. I think you can choose to have a consistently high-end brand but also means you're an author and you publish books and you live the writing life and every year you're putting out a new book for $ that anyone can buy. Right?
Yeah, I mean that's where I need to go.
Absolutely absolutely. Alright, so before we take any more questions a response to that question about what fears do you have. Want to give your lunchtime homework. This is important. What I want you to do is research the vastness of your own market. What's the full range for comparable work? And think solutions. Think solutions. So don't think what's the full range for high end jewelry. Think what's the full range for a pair of earrings? I can buy a pair of earrings at Target for $ or I can buy a pair of earrings at Tiffany's for $1,000 and obviously it goes way higher than that, too, but the outcome is getting a pair of earrings. The outcome with coaching might be the answer to a particular question or working through a particularly hard situation. If you're a yoga teacher the vastness of your market is everything from the yoga DVD or the card deck maybe even to high-end yoga retreats or yoga masterminds. So think about that completely and see if you can't find service providers, people who offer essentially what you offer at all different levels throughout your market. Try and go as low as you can and try and go as high as you can. You can do this and you can find it all online. This is why online is so awesome. Sometimes it can be difficult to find pricing but I think you'll get the idea of who's high end and who's low end so look for that whole vastness of your market, make some notes. That's your lunchtime homework. Do we have any questions from online?
We do, we do. Katrine want to know how do you know that you can deliver what your customers expect say when paying $500?
You set really clear expectations. So great question. This is again a choice that you have to make. So you chose to set particular expectations and you choose that those expectations based on your research, based on what you know are worth $500 or worth $250 or worth $1, and you set expectations. You say these are the outcomes you're gonna get from working for me, working with me. These are the things you can expect to receive. These are the deliverables that come from booking a session with me. So for instance in my own business where I charge $500 for an hour one of the outcomes that I guarantee is that I will give you six months worth of things to do (laughs). And so we will literally talk about what you want to be doing six months from now. What is that goal that you have in mind? What all do you need to do to get there? I mean for me I think that's completely worth $ to have an expert come in and tell you oh, I see you want to get to this point. These are the steps you need to make to get there. For me that's a really small investment relatively speaking. You can pay a lot more money for that and get less personalized service and get something that's less long-term. So by setting expectations and then setting an appropriate price on those expectations that's how I know I can deliver on that.
In reference to that, so Juliana wants to know when you increased your price to $500 an hour did you explain why? Were they all new clients or were they all current clients or new clients?
Okay, so I'm gonna talk a lot more about that in the third segment today, what happens when you raise or lower your prices, how you raise or lower your prices but I would say just as kind of anecdotally one, no, I rarely explain myself when I make decisions, at least pricing decisions. I kind of, that's part of the story actually. The part of the story is the jump from $250 to $ is duh (laughs). That's part of the story and I don't mean that totally flippantly but it's, you guys know me, you're getting my blog posts on a weekly basis. You see what I'm doing here, you see what I'm doing there. Maybe you come and you see an event like Creative Live and you know I can deliver so duh, I'm raising my price from $250 to $500. There's no explanation needed. The raise is the explanation for me. That's a choice that I make and like I said, I'm gonna talk about that choice in the next session or in the next segment but yeah and then in terms of whether they were new or old clients I'm gonna talk about that, too. I would say mostly I get new clients when I raise my prices and part of that is how I tend to grandfather in old clients or old people in programs. For instance, when you become part of my high end mastermind program you're part of my high end mastermind program for life or at least you're part of the community for life. I never ask people to repay. I never ask people for more. Generally they tell me hey, I really need a session with you. Here's what you charge for that (laughs) and then we go from there. But yeah, so I tend to keep people on board which means the people who are coming in tend to be completely all new.
And then when we get back you're gonna clear up about the right time to raise and lower your prices for us.
Absolutely. Yeah, I'm gonna talk about the decisions that you need to make. I'm gonna talk about when is the right time, how do you know and I kind of crowdsourced part of this segment. So you're gonna hear from a lot of people just like you about when they know when it's right to raise and lower their prices and the decision making that goes into actually making that happen.