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1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers

Lesson 8 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers

Lesson 8 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

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Lesson Info

8. 1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers


Class Trailer

Day 1


9:00 am - Introduction


9:15 am - The Model Agent


9:45 am - The Model Go-See


10:00 am - Making a Team


10:45 am - Your First Model Test


11:15 am - Testing Q&A


11:30 am - The Value of Testing


1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers


1:15 pm - Test Packages


1:30 pm - Casting


1:45 pm - Booking Terms


2:00 pm - Photographer as Team Director


2:45 pm - Conditions on a Shoot


3:00 pm - Student Casting Session: First Student


3:15 pm - Student Casting Session: Second Student


Day 2


9:00 am - Shoot: Rooftop Catalog


9:15 am - Student Shoot: Dave, Rooftop Catalog


9:45 am - Student Shoot: Agnes, Rooftop Catalog


10:30 am - Connecting with Models


10:45 am - Morning Q&A


11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images


11:30 am - Challenges


11:45 am - Assisting


1:00 pm -Shoot: Jewelry with Yoanna


1:30 pm - Student Shoot: Kumi, Jewelry Shoot


2:00 pm - Student Shoot: Todd, Jewelry Shoot


2:30 pm - Shoot: Matthew Working with New Models


3:00 pm - Personal Projects


3:15 pm - Standing Out


Day 3


9:00 am - Working with Multiple Models


10:30 am - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:15 am - Student Shoot: Next Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:45 am - Benetton Shoot Q&A


1:00 pm - Shoot: Karaoke


1:15 pm - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Karaoke


1:45 pm - Student Shoot: Second Two Students, Karaoke


2:00 pm - Discussion of the Shoot and Matthew Shooting


2:15 pm - Student Shoot: Second Round of Karaoke


3:15 pm - Your Life Inspires Your Work


Lesson Info

1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers

Forward to the break were talking about casting and it's one thing if you guys to hear it from me the photographer there's another idea when you hear it from an actual model what her experiences like so to help me hammer home that process of the casting go see all that and then I discussed before the break I want to bring in our friend of mine to help you guys really understand that process so I've been shooting tons of tests but this is a test I did recently and a good friend of mine you wanna from america's next top model and she's great and from the camera she's bear experience she's been doing castings and shoots for a while now and um I think is great if you got here from her what the process is like working with photographers as a test photographer what she's looking to get how it helps her in her career all of that so I would like to bring out you want a house to meet you guys and tell her experience from the models point of view you want to come out baby thank you really happy ...

to be here in matthew's such an amazing photographer but also just gives really great direction I feel as a model that's super important you know we did a beauty shoot together it was a collaboration with one of his makeup artists who is represented with an agency out in california, so for me coming is a model doing this for a long time I don't have to ask questions if I know the makeup artist is represented and they are getting booked for campaigns and working for celebrities red carpet I'm not going to come in as an experienced modern model terrified that the makeups going toe make me look older or make me look cheesy or make me look or make me leave after that experience not able to use the pictures, so this was, you know, an artistic project that we did together. We dated it back too, models in the nineties and the eighties, and it was something that the makeup artist and matthew wanted to do together and I've loved it was great as a model it's important that what matthew was saying did not complain to book girls that understand a lot of young girls won't know at a kid on a set, um, where they're starting out and they're really tired and they're getting booked consistently and they want to go back and be on pace with their friends and go to the mall and you know they're not really not sure they even like fashion they're just trying to figure it out they might be the girl of the moment um so it's important to be, you know, um booking girls also to that understand if you're doing artistic project that you're communicating with them, that it is an artistic project, if you're reaching out to the model models can expect to get something out of it, okay, if she's hoping to get pictures now, this is not something that she's commissioned you to do, but maybe you're reaching out from an artistic standpoint. She's hoping that her pictures were somehow either make her book or gain experience or, you know, eventually present that to an agency in hopes of getting signed because that's what aspiring models want, they want to be represented, they want to get signed, they want to have a portfolio that's respected, and they want to get booked for jobs. I think it's great for getting to hear from her and get from the most point of view what it's like and how benefits her being on a test. So if you have questions, don't be shy about asking her she's very cool, you know she won't buy ask her anything you want to know from the models point of view, why is she going to test what's the benefit for her? Um, if the test doesn't work out what's the downside of that, if the a's he doesn't like the pictures that you do should you do it over again? All that stuff you know, I have any questions about that asked her away. So as she's getting tweaked the sixteen questions from the internet, I hear you talk about tests from photographers perspective get the models perspective just really it makes it so much better for us as photographers because really it's hard to put yourself in their shoes and like you said, it's true, like we said for the last two days, when you do, when you are able to put yourself in their shoes, that makes you a better photographer, it makes you better at what you do, absolutely having that holistic view makes a huge difference, so so we're actually sorry we're actually not going to take real questions right now because we're going to cut this part out of the video. So the downloads so we were asked to not take real questions, but we could will chit chat about things, and they will save your riel questions for one, we're going when we're back off, so don't be shy to ask it after you guys. How are you? How are you guys doing? Are you excited about what's to come next? Have you ever been in a casting session ever? I'm excited, I've never really let's ask the folks online, tio, tell us something, tell us something so did they say whether they wanted us to go back? Aaron, did you want us to go back at all or just keep going from where we were? Okay, great shoes. Oh, yeah. So ok, so back to what I was saying, I came into new market now I'm traveling, wanting help, and I wanted to go back to florida with my mom was helping me with my scan. And you know what? I didn't it wasn't very familiar with the miami market. I kind of started testing there right before I moved to new york was a great experience for makes than I gain inside on howto kind of pose in kind of a camera and all that. So then you're going into let's say, the florida market, the l, a market, the chicago market, it's. You know, the images in the girl's book are very different from paris from new york, andi think it's important that the photographer's understand what the agencies want? We had agents agent on the phone running paragon. He runs agency in mexico as well as new york, and he said for the models it's important, when they come from a tests for their images toe look expensive, okay? It's the best thing not only for you as a photographer but also for me as a model, because and I'm going to get booked on expensive jobs. I'm going to get booked with catalog clients, I'm going to get seen in an expensive away, and people are going to want to invest money in me as a model if I'm photographed in a cheesy way or a tacky way or an outdated way or I am trying to look younger than I actually am, and they have been trying to push that or whatever, then the clients are not going to really understand, you know which way to go with me if my book is a reflection of that in my book needs to be strong. My book needs to be where people want to hire me where they want to work with me. As you know, photographers of matthew reaches out, if I'm doing a lot of beauty work, great, maybe I won't put all of those beauty images and to my portfolio, maybe the agency won't want that, but they're going to put a file aside saying you want his beauty work with matthew, so that way I get a call from the agency, you've got a client interested in you doing a possible cosmetic campaign, they want to see your recent images with matthew. It might not be in my online portfolio with the agency, but it's going to be in a file, okay? And then from there, maybe matthew could get booked to shoot that or the makeup artist who was doing it that day. Maybe the client really liked the way that looked so it's important for photographers to communicate. I mean, I think for me, the most important thing is the makeup I've had to go on a test let's say the m I'm working in a new market and they don't like my pictures because there is too much make up in all of the shots. There's too much vision of an eyelash, okay, when you're testing girls, no eyelashes should be put on them, okay? There should be no heavy strips that you should be seeing. The agency does not like that. What will happen is because it's fake it looks big boulders makes him look older, you know, my age range for being booked is twenty five to thirty three or thirty four, whatever you know, they're pushing me for that. I'm putting strips and lashes and liner, I'm gonna look a lot of a lot of new models for some reason, I sure what it is girls love having lashes put on this feeling, I love it for tv, for being here today, little individual, great when you started testing you don't want that makes me older, more sophisticated and stay away from him that's for later on another thing tio an agency will say we love the pictures but your brows were two penciled in what were they thinking? Who did your makeup? Okay, brow should look full or they should look natural okay, when you're testing, we're talking about agency testing I'm not getting into the artistic expression and you're doing personal projects. We're talking about the chance of you working with signed models or hoping that these girls make the agency's happy and wanting to sign them. Ok? And that's what david was saying, how did these girls get with an agent? Well, if you want to help them and you're doing a trade with them before you start your artistic project the's air key key things that every photographer I should be discussing with their makeup artists okay, let me tell you one thing that agencies hate with hair for girls, okay? When you're testing them, they don't like prom curls, okay? They don't like hair to not look it's natural south so if you've got a girl coming in and she's got straight hair, make it look healthy, make it look full express that too to the hair stylist if it's going to be a curl make it look like a natural curl, okay things that you need to tell your hair styles hair styles is excited to work with you they've never tested with girls they don't understand testing they've not been involved with that you need to be communicating with them because it's not the models you know they don't know either coming in what an agency standard is but now being in this for almost a decade and understanding, you know, because this is feedback I get from agent when thes images air submitted by the photographer and I've been commissioned the five commissioned a photographer for particular tests of the agency wanted so here you know what this would be for, you know, a test was set up, you know, this was it for myself I wasn't seeking I want to be seen no, the agents like you wanna we have so many pictures of this, but we don't have enough of your legs. We don't see your cleavage, we don't see your waist, you know they set up the test, they give specifics to the photographer how they want you wanted to be seen they don't want you wanna with lots of makeup they don't want you wanted with complicated hair they do not want you wanted with accessories I can't emphasize this enough because you might be testing a girl and want to reuse your image is five years from now possibly get paid guarantee it's going to get paid if you're not putting gigantic oops if you're not putting trendy chokers or big rings now he did a jewelry test that's totally different was able to use but when you're testing these young girls, all of that gets lost, the girl gets lost you don't see the girl the image doesn't look so expensive and clean anymore it starts looking like of the moment that trend what's happening on I can't use that picture a year from now or six months from now because that was spring where that was falls, you know, accessory or whatever you want time timeless if you're going to look he closed or important teo as a stylist, you know you should be trying to find the best as you can it's not up to the stylist, you know, to pull high end a lot of times if they're starting out and they're doing trade with you I'm not going to come in knowing in a test that they're gonna have mulching gabbana for me I mean, obviously you know, there's gotta be a reason dole ching a bond is lending the clothes or they're getting a pr company I'm coming in for a test as a model I should be bringing stuff in I kind of get an idea from you already the photographer has told me the agency wants to see you in a high and lingerie shoot, we've pulled these pieces or could you bring something in and it's about communicating because if you have a model shop that day and she didn't know she was supposed to bring undergarments or she was supposed to bring a pair of shoes or a pair of jeans already it's like you might have to cancel the shoot that day or scramble about and it's already cut into your time for shooting. So again, you know this was gonna pass thing there is no e had to shoot that and the agency loved it because this is clean. I don't have a ton of makeup on I'm trying to post essentially don't choose images that you feel don't compliment the girl, okay? Because sometimes you're going to be sending over a huge pile of what you've shot of that model the agency wants to see, the agency will decide and like he was saying, which I loved it's not always the model gets decided sometimes that's better because I might like to see myself a certain way and then my book looks the same and the agency says people get bored if you start looking the same all the time it's a model, you're picking the same poses you're picking the same looks if I were to do that for myself that would already limit my portfolio and make it weaker so that's, another difference with, like having eighty mile verses, a ball from model mayhem coming with those sites like that, the girls picking her own pictures and you really can't see yourself, you need somebody else to you that objectionable objective viewpoint of the images on what happens. Teo. I find a lot of photographers who've been doing a long time. They said that they would much rather work with girls who are represented on lee, because sometimes they're working with these girls off these social media sites, and they get so shoot crazy that they've seen a shoot of the girl let's, say, holding a machete with the bikini on a shotgun, and they're like, ok, they got got a kind of race, that image they've seen of that girl and start fresh. Do you know what I'm saying? So, it's it's important, you know, there's, a reason why certain girls or sign and you, I feel like if. Matthew reached out to me and I've been doing this for a while I know matthew's work I think he's awesome, I know that he's gonna have an amazing makeup team or hair team I'll work with him for trade hoping to get something awesome out of it I've seen his work, I know that I will I don't have to worry if you're really super super new start working with the new face girls first because it would be a bummer for me and I've done this you know, I did this this year I worked with two young super photographers super young starting out they literally opened a box of the new camera that day on the set they pulled out a new lighting something I don't know what they were doing and there I am waiting an hour and a half in my chair praying to god that they understand how tio work this piece of equipment and, you know, then starts getting overcast and you're in florida and you're thinking, oh my god are we don't have time to even dio this so you know that's really, really something I think may be a new face girl should be more patient went test, you know, knows again something really clean and simple I know too that I find wanting to get booked for a high and job or lingerie job I want you to help me to get there by telling dictating with your hair and makeup make you want to look high end make you wanna you know we want her to get paid gigs out of this if I was commissioning you for maybe a boudoir glamour shot totally different I could tell you exactly how I want to look for, you know, my partner or whatever, but no, this is in hopes of me getting booked for high and paid jobs and you too, and you too, because guarantee a friend of mine took these pictures, he did something on dh he got hired like three weeks later from paul mitchell just from a test and he got paid a thousand dollars he had been doing it very long, he got fired from comments, we're doing a test and you know why? Because he fired the right hair person to make his his work shine and you know, from this picture that my friend it for a test, I've used it three times for three features interviews promoting myself of things that are coming up because it was usable, the magazine loved it, it was clean, it was it wasn't dated, it was current and and the hair makeup for me feel like it's just a little bit of liner and lash and it's five years from now, it's still usable

Class Materials

bonus material with purchase

MJS creativeLIVE Keynote Slides.pdf

Ratings and Reviews

a Creativelive Student

This was more of a collaborative course with Matthew Jordan Smith and Yoanna House, and it is brilliant. I just finished watching this for a few hours straight. I own several Creative Live courses and this is definitely in my Top 3. Matthew's teaching style is so kind but to the point and informative. That's the kind of photographer I aim to be. He puts forth his knowledge here in a way that totally encouraged everyone involved. I loved Yoanna as well. She was very direct but friendly as well. I loved watching her direct the budding models and her experience showed quite well. This part is for John, the guy who commented on June 2017. I completely disagree with you that there were too many questions and that other people were talking much more than Matthew, and that that was a negative. Matthew's whole point was not just to get straight to shooting but to talk a bit about interacting with people in general. This wasn't just about technical stuff; this was about forming that connection between photographer and model/subject. This was as much psychology as it was about actual shooting, and I absolutely loved that. So I 100% strongly disagree with you as this is one of Creative Live's BEST courses that I've seen thus far. Thanks a ton, Matthew and Yoanna, and thanks so much again, Creative Live (I'm a huge fan of you guys!).

a Creativelive Student

So amazing !! Bought this and Lara jade Fashion Workshop and the 2 compliment each other really well. If you're interested in fashion photography these 2 courses are so inspiring. I Love the Matthews passion for the creative process, its inspiring and informative.

Student Work