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11:15 am - Testing Q&A

Lesson 6 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

11:15 am - Testing Q&A

Lesson 6 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

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Lesson Info

6. 11:15 am - Testing Q&A


Class Trailer

Day 1


9:00 am - Introduction


9:15 am - The Model Agent


9:45 am - The Model Go-See


10:00 am - Making a Team


10:45 am - Your First Model Test


11:15 am - Testing Q&A


11:30 am - The Value of Testing


1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers


1:15 pm - Test Packages


1:30 pm - Casting


1:45 pm - Booking Terms


2:00 pm - Photographer as Team Director


2:45 pm - Conditions on a Shoot


3:00 pm - Student Casting Session: First Student


3:15 pm - Student Casting Session: Second Student


Day 2


9:00 am - Shoot: Rooftop Catalog


9:15 am - Student Shoot: Dave, Rooftop Catalog


9:45 am - Student Shoot: Agnes, Rooftop Catalog


10:30 am - Connecting with Models


10:45 am - Morning Q&A


11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images


11:30 am - Challenges


11:45 am - Assisting


1:00 pm -Shoot: Jewelry with Yoanna


1:30 pm - Student Shoot: Kumi, Jewelry Shoot


2:00 pm - Student Shoot: Todd, Jewelry Shoot


2:30 pm - Shoot: Matthew Working with New Models


3:00 pm - Personal Projects


3:15 pm - Standing Out


Day 3


9:00 am - Working with Multiple Models


10:30 am - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:15 am - Student Shoot: Next Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:45 am - Benetton Shoot Q&A


1:00 pm - Shoot: Karaoke


1:15 pm - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Karaoke


1:45 pm - Student Shoot: Second Two Students, Karaoke


2:00 pm - Discussion of the Shoot and Matthew Shooting


2:15 pm - Student Shoot: Second Round of Karaoke


3:15 pm - Your Life Inspires Your Work


Lesson Info

11:15 am - Testing Q&A

What is a test shoot? Let's? Define what a test is. A test is a photographer. One shoe division. So the model is coming to do a test shot. You're going to the modeling agency. You're booking the model and the malls now in front of you. You're doing a shoot it's gonna go free agency and for your book. So this team coming together everyone's working for free hair makeup, salis photographer all during that time to create something you're creating something that just doing to a nine to five job and doing a job you come together to create together together each achieves mohr. So this is a test. We call this our word for it. This ports of a shoot it's called a test shoot way all come together. We all work for free to create something. The hair, makeup, the model all come together to create our images. That's the test you test could be elaborate. Simple. Could be anything you want to be but it's the whole team come together with an idea that's just coming for the photographer that you create ...

together. That's called a test. Questions about tested all, um specifically about tests. I guess I guess we'll wait for those questions to come in. Okay, going, we'll have plenty for you, um, number of images that you would give out to the other part of you, a good number of it is that you give out to the team. Um, there is no set rules at all in the old days, when the shooting film that was very different because you know you're printing is something different now, with digital it's much easier. So after the shoot, al, I make a light box of all the entire shoot of my favorites and house in that light box to model agency to my hair, my makeup, so they can all see top images of the day some thought was once in the entire shoot, I don't want to do that. I said, just the best images of the day that I like for the crew to see and then let them pick what they like. I will usually have images of touched up, retouched, or some people say it, it it now of my favorite ones, but what works for me? We may not work for the makeup artist network for the model, so what? All had different things that we want for our books, so it's very common for me to have this shot in my book and for another image from the shot would be in the big boss book and know him to be in that girl's book we all have different needs that we are all shooting for I'll sin the light box from the shoot to the entire team the pick what they want their works for them best are they usually hires are easy high reds I saw the light box is just a view of all the images were the images they are highways so whatever they select from the light box you would then to send them the high risk handsome do you ever put your log on them or is it clean image as a clean image on foot for the industry in the in the fashion industry I'll put my name and logo on the engines way don't do that I have my copy right on the engines yes so that's a bit it in the file but I don't have like a lot but he tarver's will put their name on the actual image we don't do that so it's not like I worry about them taking my images in use it for other things that it's not that that's not that concerned I'll take it way have questions so some people are asking about some other terms and wondering if that's the same thing as a test so one from kg photo twenty two is t f p and then another one wass t c t f cd yes, this is the same thing same thing those are are newer terms like last like, you know, eight years, maybe twenty years ago we all use the word test but now they are you know tfc for print with sends for uh what test for cd. Okay, it's the same thing okay, cool took you okay bear with me here. There's quite a few questions about your mortgage payment way did cover the fact of the hair and the makeup artists are doing it for free. Stylist is also doing it for free so the team is is collaborating so the questions are just bear with me here random guys is how do you transition from shooting test that are free to pay test? Um tom, she said how much money, if any do you pay to do a test with an agency, forget or get paid? And then, um, non creative says does the model agency pay for a test? How much testing do you do before you can get paid for a test? All they're all kind of sense of all those. Okay, seo, I think all those questions all great and on points I want answered all of those, I think every one of those we need to cover first, which it wass first question is from random guy, how do you transition from shooting test that are free to pay tests when there are so many other photographers shooting free test for them? Ok, so when you're testing, we're talking about he's talking in reference to a modeling agency now paying you to test in the very beginning, when you make that first meeting that I want to pay you that system you out so you can change that if you get better and better and better, we're now paying you to test all the models that nc falls in love with your photography, because you're showcasing the models where they can now send their girls out and getting work from the your pictures, they're not paying you to test the models if you do it's no like hidden number once they are happy with your work and you've done four, five, six consistently great shoots they could depend on you. I think then you start testing, you could start charging for the test. Um, testing rates very from place to place, also to be on the market from I guess, on the low in three hundred dollars, two thousand dollars these depends, um, let me say this you should not get caught up and just doing pay tests I seen a lot of talk this fall. Beside the wayside by getting caught up in doing pay tous it's a decent living doing pay test yes, if you shoot a lot of girls and do well is that you go that's all well and good, but the goal of testing is not just to make money and don't get lost in that, um, you could make five hundred dollars doing a test one thousand dollars making a test and do that risk your life. We can use it as a platform to build your career and go from making five hundred dollars for tests to making forty thousand dollars for one job it's a big difference it's a big difference, so don't get caught up and just doing pay tests if you're really good, you could have a great career and great photographers not used to be doing pay tests, she doing jobs if you're that good beginning jobs and the better jobs you do, the more you get pain if you do a test, if you do that job and pays you that one time, if you do a great job, you do a great job for cosmetic company um and you should see the ad of that model they pay you the twenty thousand dollars whatever it is they pay you for the ad, it comes out and there's a term there's a usage period a year, two years whatever it is for that job and cosmetics, those ads will stay out maybe ten years, so every two years they're calling you back to pay you and the model all over again for usage. I haven't ad I did eight years ago every two years they call me and pay me again for the usage and the model as well. It's a big difference versus just doing the pay test for five hundred dollars, one thousand dollars and I'm not saying that's not good money is great money, but it's not compared to what you can make as a fashion or beauty photographer it's a big difference great guy, you are successful fashion and beauty photographer right here, I'm sure that's a question at all. Good question. Okay, so tom sheila asked how much money, if any, do you pay to do a test with an agency er doctor doesn't pay any money to do a test with an agency. You should be paying an agency to do a test. No should know the topic should not be paying to do a test unless you have to run a studio or well after this, you expensive? Okay, if you're running a studio that's part of your business expenses, okay, but you're not paying an agency, you're not paying a modeling agency for you to have the privilege to shoot that models no, that should not happen okay and I love the question also yes there's two mark so non creative what she basically did answer how much testing do you do before you can get paid for a test so there's no there's no like magic number okay? It depends on your skill level it depends on the agent and then feeling comfortable with you you shouldn't do twenty tests if you're looking to turn it into pay test you should just do the point where you feel comfortable and they feel comfortable with you we give them consistent good work it's not consistent we have two great shoots and you have like three bad shoots that's not consistency they need to see consistent look and feel where they know without a doubt that you will perform and give them great images and if you don't you reshoot that girl for free great okay well you basically already answered the last question about mark harmon had said what if the agency start to take advantage of your willingness to do tests on markets from orlando? Do you ever feel that way or should you just go with it? If he's only done like three test I'm not sure he's being taken advantage of he's done you know uh twenty twenty five different story you got to feel that out yourself little by little if you're doing if you don't twenty five free tests fifty three tests for this agency you be take advantage of you for sure good to know and another quest test question for you from mp photos who does all the editing for the images whether they're for you or the makeup artists are ready okay sorry post process okay is the question both processing retouching is also on individual question for each photographer um I'm a photographer I'm not a re toucher so I don't do my only touching I have like I have a team of hair makes dallas have a team of researchers because I'm not an artist when retouching can I learn to do it? Yes, but I'd rather spend my time camera in my hand not behind a computer is a matter of fact I don't like being behind computer I won't be out in the field shooting my models on location shooting models in a studio shooting models I want to do what I love to do I love off taking pictures, not being behind a disk in front of monitor that's not my love for some it is they were doing their own you know retouching point entity that's not my love I love shooting I love creating the image and I want them to be the best I can and if I retouch it's gonna be the best there are others who did much better and love that time in front of the computer that's not me I love that you say that because I think when I started I thought that I had to did you everything all of it and again was it depends on the person and what part of it is your art but when I let go of that it's really free it relieved and you have time now also in to do other things and have a life after you pay for the test do I pay a researcher for the test yes do I pay the researcher for the test yes I do it's a different discipline altogether they're not part of that team and creating sometimes they are but uh my make parts of times we touch is I have a great make it ours is a great retouching do I pay for the retouching yes I do not for the entire team if the rnc wants had injuries we touched that cost is from the agent but for my pictures they're going to buy books I retouch those at the hand make you want to use pictures that ivory touched algae than those we touched images they want others outside of that they can have those retouched so you had to go up uh on the ones where you're paying the retention do you offer them the images also offer them the images also like your portfolio it depends because I do a lot of celebrities as well, so I want make sure I don't want to have a before and after picture of a celebrity going on with models is so cool it's not cool celebrities so after the tester is dead and now you're in that post process, um, we ask if there's a magic number where you find it called down your final set of images from the shoot say that again, like like, how many images do you would you kind of determine as your final set of images? Ok, three five so I do I do a shoot and let's say, I've done this is big shoot and we have, um we've shot one thousand images, I'll go through our really pretty fast pick out my top fifty, then I walk away from them now come back again look at those fifty and willow's downs like my top ten, and then it gets picky because those top ten could buy all work, but they're not gonna get picky and find out which is the image and that part I stress about despite what the hardest part for me is picking the image, I do sleep over that part of it, and here we probably all do that it's just create process, and we're picking us photographers like that image is this images it is hard that part is hard it is and it's all up to know your interpretation what you think is good and sometimes this way sometimes all the time the mali agency pick out in jersey like I think that one it's just a process it's not really my fantasies even clients, I'll do a job well, shoot a job like, oh my god, that's the image they're going to leave the opposite way that's the process it's just all this being creative and having our own pains on what's great what's not they get all the great those top ten, but this one's grateful client and their usage and fits their brand also because no pantene has their brand, revlon has their brain, they're both great lines, they have their brand and it just fit into their brand same designers about any client has their brand and image must fit their brand. They've had for fifty years a hundred years getting brand conscious also, but then it's photographers way have our brand as well your style. So you're starting that fit into that image that they use for the book or for the air for the catalog talking about image selection, you mentioned the light books that you send out the whole team would you include the broker more the broker in that light books team as well they think the war he won't hurt to see their set in all the pre selected so her question was will I send my light box of my talk inge's to the model booker at the agency? Absolutely I wanted to see it also is a matter of fact I mean usually I'm not singing to the model but sometimes about well say like ok police said it to me as well they view their information is that at that point I don't have the models information if she often to me the announcing her include her in that email with all the pictures the question one more as forest pricing if you do start booking test shoots how do you distribute the payment for your makeup artists hurt? Okay, so which is like charging for patriots um how to distribute the money to the crew? So if you're charging, you know, five hundred dollars for test I give one hundred fifty dollars a tuna dollars the hair and makeup it is one person doing that you know, uh, it's two people given like one hundred each thank you. Like photography just depends. Um, well, maybe I'll do it. I'll break it down even more and do like one fifty feet each person it just depends so it's only up to us photographer and what you think is fair inappropriate for them and the base model the model miles like and pay for the tests she's getting on the images that you're not paying her to be there you are paying you start doing pain test tomorrow was paying you and your crew and and even the pay tests is not the model giving you cash or check or whatever it's the agency is paying you to shoot her so then you and the creative team to create team is the hair makeup stalin's whomever is there and then you break up whatever is accordingly and I've heard startups offers doing painting and not giving anything to the hair and makeup and that's wrong when you start getting paid for test pay your team question I love having a great team around me and doing things together and creating when you get a great idea for a great team, you can create things together so my making pars my hair styles my models we are all one big team I love stream uh along the mall over over again I use of different jobs are from two clients this model and met her casting she's a brand new model um she had a agency in san diego. She did have a phd in l a couldn't find an agency but she had a flawless skin chip porcelain skin like zero is made for shooting beauty so artistic are left and right. Um, I referred to deter clients, sony, other clients, and they booked her. They've been pushing for, like the last four years, but I made her testing, and she could not find an agency. She came on my favorite models, so here we are doing test, and after the test we'll take we'll even during the process, doing the test, we take pictures to remember the process.

Class Materials

bonus material with purchase

MJS creativeLIVE Keynote Slides.pdf

Ratings and Reviews

a Creativelive Student

This was more of a collaborative course with Matthew Jordan Smith and Yoanna House, and it is brilliant. I just finished watching this for a few hours straight. I own several Creative Live courses and this is definitely in my Top 3. Matthew's teaching style is so kind but to the point and informative. That's the kind of photographer I aim to be. He puts forth his knowledge here in a way that totally encouraged everyone involved. I loved Yoanna as well. She was very direct but friendly as well. I loved watching her direct the budding models and her experience showed quite well. This part is for John, the guy who commented on June 2017. I completely disagree with you that there were too many questions and that other people were talking much more than Matthew, and that that was a negative. Matthew's whole point was not just to get straight to shooting but to talk a bit about interacting with people in general. This wasn't just about technical stuff; this was about forming that connection between photographer and model/subject. This was as much psychology as it was about actual shooting, and I absolutely loved that. So I 100% strongly disagree with you as this is one of Creative Live's BEST courses that I've seen thus far. Thanks a ton, Matthew and Yoanna, and thanks so much again, Creative Live (I'm a huge fan of you guys!).

a Creativelive Student

So amazing !! Bought this and Lara jade Fashion Workshop and the 2 compliment each other really well. If you're interested in fashion photography these 2 courses are so inspiring. I Love the Matthews passion for the creative process, its inspiring and informative.

Student Work