Hey everyone, how's it going, I'm Chase Jarvis, welcome to another episode of Chase Jarvis Live here on Creative Live. You're tuned into the 30 Days of Genius series. If you're new to this series, boy, that's where I sit down with the world's top creatives and entrepreneurs, thought leaders and extract actual insights that you can apply to your day to day to help you live your dreams in career, hobby, and in life. If you're new to this series, go to creativelive.com/30daysofgenius, the number three zero, days of genius. All you gotta do is click that blue button and you get one of these badass interviews in your inbox, every day for 30 days. You'll thank me later, I promise. My guest today, he blew up the wine business first. Took his parent's business from like $3 million to $50 million in just a few years, then he started a digital agency that's now one of the fastest growing digital agencies in the world. He's a New York Time's best selling author of many books, most recently this o...
ne right here, the Ask Gary Vee book. My guest is none other than Mr. Gary Vaynerchuk. (upbeat rock music) (applause)
I need to comment off the gate, I'm sorry, this is how I roll. That was quite, that was very well done. I have a lot of pride in my one take, bang it out, no signs behind the good looking dude right there. And you just did that and I'm impressed and I want to give you daps and I hope everybody's watching gives you daps. That was extremely well done man.
You're good at this, I'm impressed.
Well I mean when we sit down for you show, for example, we've done the Gary Vee, or ask Gary Vee show, that went well, I guess there's a lot of energy when you and I are together.
I think D rock--
I sat on your lap in Seattle. (Chase laughs) I don't know if you guys remember that, maybe you want to clip that in right there.
There was a, when we were setting up the lighting for this, well these guys were setting up the lighting, they actually only put lights on this spot, and I was like well what about the other one and they, well he's gonna sit on your lap right? You guys were fucking with us, that was pretty good, not gonna lie.
Thrilled to be here, thanks for having me.
Yeah all the way to the coast. What's, obviously you're, yeah what's cookin'? This thing blew up, congratulations.
Congratulations. I made a video about it, not just because we're friends, but because it was super valuable. And because I made a little cameo. You asked me to read, that was fun.
Did very well. You know it's funny. I've started saying this out loud for the first time. I don't like to talk in third person so I never thought about it this way, never allowed myself, but there's clearly, I'm living two lives. I'm clearly living Gary Vaynerchuk, the CEO of VaynerMedia and running businesses, an investor, running a large venture fund, and then there's this Gary Vee character that is my side hustle. And the truth is, and I think, I think most of you that are watching right now that have consumed once, twice, zero times, four times, will not believe this. I think you, people that really know me know this to be true. I much, I love being Gary Vaynerchuk operate. I'm a businessman. I'm thrilled that I ended up having the charisma and showmanship that has made it valuable in today's 17 cameras, my phone is my camera, contented scale--
Speaking of, you should do some stuff on this thing.
In the dark, no less.
Very nice catch. So, I'm in this great spot right now, where literally on the flight to LA yesterday, from New York where I was, I, on the WiFi, told my assistants, I'm like hey, I need you to look at my calendar for the next hundred days. I need you to help me, help me from me. I need to be the CEO of this company, not do every interview, podcast, and so--
That can go on forever.
It can go on forever. I love it, but I've gotten my fix. I've gotten my sizzle fix. I've been on every podcast. I'm sorry for all of you that viewed that. I've been heavily on the show for two years. I've been doing the Daily Vee. I'm hardcore Snapchat. And I, and I'm happy right now because I'm having a lot of business meetings, operational meetings, and so what's happening is I'm goin' through my motions. My motions that I'm very thankful for, which is, I'm living my dream, which is the professional chase of buying the New York Jets and I'm also in a nice place as a dad and a husband and a friend. Even in my 18 hour days that I work, I'm finding time to be all in on the weekends and vacations and this is the week, I don't know when this is, but this is the week of the NFL draft. So I flew from LA to San Francisco this morning at 6:00. We're doing this, I got a couple meetings. In a couple hours I'm flying from here to Atlanta, Atlanta to South Carolina, I'm doing an event in South Carolina and a business meeting. But then I'm flying up to Westchester at 5:00 in the afternoon, 6:00 in the afternoon, going to watch the NFL draft with my brother and my buddies and so, you know, hacking.
Yeah. What's the, I think both of us carry the, the persona is the wrong word, I don't like about it in that but we sort of get characterized as hustle-
And thanks to you, I'm on Snapchat that's my favorite platform right now, fuck I'm having so much fun with it.
I don't know if you know this, and I don't know if you guys edit or how you guys run a clip, one of the first times publicly I talked about Snapchat's ROI, was when we're together in when somebody asked, if I'm a photographer what should I be focused on? That was three years ago. And I was like, Snapchat, and everybody was like, what? (laughs) So mainly I'm asking him to edit this into this interview for you guys, just because I want the "humble" brag, plus I also like seeing my fat face. That was actually my height and weight... For example, I would tell you from a photographer right now, the number one place I would build an audience on, number one--
Can I guess? No, you take it.
I think I kind of previewed you on it a little bit.
Oh, you did actually, yes, cheat.
That's why I don't want you to get credit amongst the audience. The number one place I think that they should be building an audience on is Snapchat. Let me explain why. So Snapchat, for people that are watching, the talk is about naked selfies and all this jargon.
The reality is that Snapchat is the one place that you can almost guarantee consumption. Because the picture disappears, people actually click it and look at it for those eight seconds. Whereas on Twitter and Facebook, you don't see everything, you're just going through it too quickly whereas Snapchat you actually give that photo, oh by the way, you give it those seven, 10, 11 seconds. I've been able to drive much bigger business results trending topics on Twitter through Snapchat over the last two months than I've been able to do through any other platform. If I'm a photographer, the ability for me to take a photo and then send it to my Snapchat audience and actually have it consumed and write on top of it, unless you're a purist, I get it, but the truth is, that to me is a place where they need to be paying attention to. And so it goes on and on and on. Just like if I was a filmmaker or a video person, I'd be very much paying attention to Vine and trying to figure out how to make six second micro videos that bring awareness to me that leads me to gateway YouTube, my YouTube which lead to the gateway to hiring me. It's just this evolution of opportunity. The awareness funnel starts now on social networks and on mobile devices and the people that realize how to story tell there, because that's where the consumers attention is. When they figure out that, they then have an at bat to be able to do what they need to be doing.
Anyway, I know, I'm excited.
We characterize the hustle--
I'm a hustler.
Yeah but I feel like I get the same moniker and more than business questions, I think because people can apply hustle to any discipline.
What's your recipe for that because there's a sanity, is it balance, is it all in and rest, is it go super deep until you crash and then I just escalate?
I'm extremely bad at being anything but myself, so--
So what I think has happened is, it's been extremism and momentum.
So, if, here's a fun fact, I will not have a lunch meeting. If I have a lunch meeting I will become lethargic and not be able to hustle.
I don't know. Maybe it's the food. Maybe because in my 20s, from 22 to 30, running a wine library, being a retailer, I never ate breakfast and lunch and so I don't know if my body's been conditioned that when I eat, get tired because I used to eat dinner at 10:00 p.m. And like have all 4000 calories in one second.
Like a snake, right, once a day?
Uh huh, it's what it was.
I think I'm extreme and momentum, meaning go, go, go, go and then I mean, I'm dead. And when I say dead on Friday night. Friday at 11:00 p.m. I'm finished. Because what I put on the field from 6:00 a.m. Monday to Friday at 11:00 p.m., I know, I don't think, I know I'm in the top .01% of actual hours because I'm really, I am going 6:00 to--
6:00 to 12:00, 6:00 to 10:00?
Yes, I mean, the earliest that I will come home is 11:00 p.m. at night.
So, I think this is the answer that people at home want is, is that something that you taught yourself to do or is that you? Because I know it's me.
It's something my parents taught me, a little bit. Cause I watched my dad do it. I think it's in me.
I think it's also the thing I think is most practical. So, if you're watching right now, there's an important thing to say. You're not going to become more talented. You can work on your talents to get them to a higher level, but it's incremental.
You're not going to become, I'm not going to become an unbelievable all time artist or videographer or photographer or painter or rapper or surfer or Frisbee player, I'm just not. All of those things I can become better at. The one thing you can control, I feel, is time. I don't have to watch House of Cards.
I don't have to play Candy Crush. I don't have to do that shit that everybody does on a plane. What's that fucking thing--
There's, it's universal, everyone around me--
I'm like looking, on all these flights. I'm like what, these guys and girls are spending fours, just going to from New York to fucking L.A. And you just wrote a ton of fucking numbers into a box, now, first of all, respect because maybe that gal--
Maybe that's your burn off thing, your chilling out thing.
Exactly, it works, every Sunday, in the Fall, you will find me burning out for eight hours, first parking lot, then game, burned out. Like it's a football game cause I have ROI to my hustle, it's my escapism.
So maybe that's how people's brains work, maybe it makes them sharp if they're programmers. But, if you, I would say this, if you're watching and you complain, this is a new way that I'm framing this conversation, all of my advice, all of my extremism, all of the way that you guys judge me is fine if you don't complain. If you complain, if you right now, before you watch, if you and your buddy are in a coffee shop right now and you're watching this cause your buddy said, "hey you've got to watch Chase and Gary", and 20 minutes before, you did that, you were sitting there and complaining that you're not winning or life is unfair, or the man is holding you down. Or damn Bernie Sanders should've won because we all need to make $25 an hour minimum wage, and if you complain, well then you need to look at what you're spending your time on. Because if you complain, you're not going to complain your way to more talent, but if you complain and you watch us and learn something, maybe you will play six hours less a week of video games, I do not have a Netflix account. You know how insane that is? (Chase laughs) Like that upsets me. I feel like that should be, I feel like nobody should be allowed to be in that position in 2016. But I don't, I don't watch. I don't consume stuff because I'm working. Because it's what I want and it's the thing that I feel I can control and all the time that's left is a little sliver for the Jets, a solid sliver for my family, and that's it, and you know this.
I do know it.
You know this. You know how I will, amongst the other personalities, I don't have time.
To like do the weekend stuff.
It's a choice for me. Like people say, look, how do you live two separate lives where there's a hustle? I don't, I try and make it, I mean, my wife, Kate produced 1,000 photo shoots all over the world for 10 years for us, together, and that was, it was a lot of business. But we spent a lot, we never had to come home and say, hey honey, how was your day? Because we were like this close together. And there's 15 other people and it was very, very messy and now that I'm really focused on Creative Live right now, there's a little bit more compartmentalization, but I built a living and a life around the things that I love. So it's a little bit less separation for me. I think, at the end of the day, let me try and characterize this, is it no thy self? Is it like you're being you?
Is the game, it's why it's in the title of the book.
Wasn't it like on some pyramid adolphe or something like that? Know thyself, it's like, many thousands of years old, we're not writing this book for the first time.
There's nothing to be written for the first time.
The only thing we're doing is we're synthesizing it for 2017. There's no--
It's press packaging exercise, yeah.
100%, I love it when people like, Gary Vee, like in my Facebook comment, Gary Vee, Whit Thompson said that in 1942. I'm like, great, fucking caveman John said it in fucking 4 A.D. Like nobody owns any of this shit. I have no interest in, there's people who have been selling hustle and work hard before me, way before me. It's how do you apply it to the context of a mobile first world? What we're doing right now was inconceivable in 1974. 1974, that was four minutes ago. This kind of quality of talent and production and equipment was only for one place, national television.
So, to me, people piss me off because they're complaining and their great grandparents, if they're not alive, would literally come out of the grave and punch kids in the mouth right now because they didn't have no fucking internet to make your dreams come true. There was no practicality to living the lifestyle that we're living. Let's call a spade a spade. Me, with all my stuff, I would have a bunch of liquor stores in Jersey right now if I was the generation before me.
Which would be fine--
Hell yeah, it would be fine. I would have not known another thing.
Of course it would've been fine. Look at me, I came from nothing. My family came from nothing. Now I'm the biggest liquor retailer on the east coast. It would've been amazing. But the platforms that we have now, you can be the greatest entrepreneur of a generation, if you want. If you're good enough. The opportunity has never been greater. The internet is American on steroids and we still have people complaining--
About opportunity, about yeah, yeah.
I don't, listen, I'm so happy so many of you do it. More for me. Keep fucking complaining. (Chase laughs) Thrilled, interesting.
I'm going to put a pin in two things. First of all is like--
Didn't you stop that--
Yeah, I know better.
I just don't understand.
Chase, seriously, give me one more second before you segue.
Can you like help me here and get on this bandwagon. Like, they're so lucky.
We are lucky.
We're so lucky. Like, we could've been an ant. (Chase laughs) Do you ever think about the rarity of being a human being?
Let me help you.
The fucking math, of actually becoming a human being is impossible.
I can't think about that because it paralyzes me, but the reality is that, if you even take it outside of just becoming human, but being born in a place where there is opportunity, where you do have access to --
Can we make a rule right now. If you are a white man in America, you should go to jail for complaining. New rule. New rule. If you're a white man, in America, you are at the 1% of the 1%, even if you were born with zero dollars, it's just the truth. This is the number one market. Being the white man is the born in, fucking leadership role, it's just the truth, and that's the new rule.
Okay, let's try and add some actual insights for the people who, I mean--
Here's an actual insight.
If you're a white man, stop fucking complaining.
Thing one. Thing two, we're going to try and address the rest of that, the 99% in the next 25 minutes here and I want to do two things. One, the fact that we talked about how we're in this special time, why don't you turn some sort of live streaming thing on, whether it's Facebook Live or just actually, we'll do a little meta thing right now.
And you can ask, Nasim, if you want to ask some questions. Actually, why don't you scoot over.
You guys are not ready to pull all these cameras but, press go on that thing. And so we'll live this in real time, as part of the show.
More on me and a little bit less on him.
Yeah, much more of me. It crashed.
Ending live video. So, (laughs).
That's not what I wanted.
So while we're--
I like a little bit of chaos here, so while we're waiting for Nasim, yeah, we'll do some Facebook Live. So, the thing I wanted to do is something that is, like meta. So thing two, is when we talk about actual insights.
One of the things that people talk about is hustle. The other, and you talk about effort, working people through time, what are some things that, creators in particular have a disproportionate opportunity from other folks on, we can talk about--
Creators to me have a big advantage on moving fast on under-valued real estate. So when I was pushing you like, hey Snapchat--
It was because I knew that you would win. I knew That I would see you in a couple of months and you would say exactly what you said in the beginning of the meeting.
Because of like, you're a creator. You're a storyteller. You know what to do and even though right now, because of the headlines and what you know of Snapchat right now, you're not thinking it's gonna be so great. But in four seconds, I mean, how long did it take you?
It took me like literally a day before I figured out the app and realized that, oh, my God, this is like--
It's big because it's so fast and so intimate and like, it's literally the fastest form of creativity that I've ever experienced, so I love, you know, I used to shoot feature films and then it was smaller videos, and now, it's my whole sort of whirl is in a 10 second world and I'm having so much fun. It's lightweight, it's a way to tell stories so fast.
And restrictions create amazing storytelling.
So, what do I think? I think part of you that are watching now that I'm finally calmed down from my rant, I think that you are the generation that's going to understand what do do on Vine and Musical.ly and Snapchat and Anchor and all these things that will continue to emerge. And for all of you, you might have missed the boat on Facebook. You might have missed, I caught the YouTube, Twitter game.
But other people caught the Instagram game. My partner Jerome Jarre in our talent agency, he caught the Vine game. DJ Khaled caught the Snapchat game. Ashton Kutcher caught the Twitter game. And there's going to be people that are going to catch the Facebook Live game. There's people that caught the Periscope game, the Blab game, and it goes on and on and on. And I think what the great thing is about our space is, a lot of you watching are saying, dammit, I should've went all in on Instagram as a photographer four years ago. I've got great news for you.
There's another thing.
That's right and you just go backwards, use it, learn it, don't punt it, even though your in last place and you're not proud of your following count, never let following count be a self esteem barometer.
Become a craftsman in it, because when the next Instagram comes, when the next photography-based photographers eye based platform comes, which it will, which it will, absolutely, you may move quicker this time because you learned from the last time. And it's funny, I told everybody to go on Twitter that knew that I was right about YouTube the year before, but I wasn't me and nobody listened. It was so fun for me in December and January to tell my homies to get on Snapchat. A lot more of you listened because I've got all the street cred now and a lot have won. A lot have done really well.
It's still super early, I'm not sure if it's sideways and new can't see things that are coming in because it's sideways.
So, part of the Snapchat story. A, yes I'm super grateful that you pushed me to do that early. Let's talk a little bit more about why the--
What's going on over there?
It's all right, keep going.
Let's talk a little bit about why Snapchat is valuable and let's talk about attention and specifically I believe that creatives and people who are paying attention to this broadcast, have a bigger opportunity to make an impact because the medium is the message because if you can create, then you are going to stand out because there's a lot of people who are not creating, that are just typing words, and that's not to say that that's not creative, but we can stand out from the other folks who are not creative.
Listen, video's above pictures, pictures above written word. I mean that's been pretty established in society. Like, I think that's been something that we've seen, so, I think that, can somebody who writes break out on top of somebody who does video, of course, if you're the best at your craft, you can break out. But I don't disagree with you. Anybody that's taking pictures or making videos in today's society can win.
For sure. So, but what is it? Is it the actual content? Is it the message? Is the medium is the message?
It's the people, I don't think the medium is the message for me.
I think it's the people that know how to translate the context of the medium with their message. That's who wins. So, I look at all these platforms as filters.
As long as I start as a pure form of me and I understand how to filter contextually into those places, I will win. How do I translate? I'm different. I'm different on Snapchat than I am on Instagram than I am on Twitter than I am on Facebook.
But I'm always me.
But that's, right, you need to be, you've been pitching that for a long time. Right, being native to the platform.
Jab, jab, jab, right hook.
For sure, but also--
It's the whole thesis.
But native to the platform is also, like that's giving, what's going on here? It's just crashing. Yeah, it's just over and over and over. I'll let you do it one more time. And then I'll give you a little breathing room so we don't sweat on one another. But, so you've been talking about the medium as the message and one of the things I love about Snapchat, not to go on and on about Snapchat but, it's like three or four things mashed into one thing, so, there's the messaging component of it, there's the photography part of it, there's the video part of it, there's the play part of it, all the little faces and stuff like that.
There's a lot there.
There's a lot there--
That's where Snapchat's done a really good job. The plays actually very important--
Because it's more context tools.
I mean, it's a big deal.
And like the geographic filters, all that stuff I'll put under play, but there's also one thing I would like to talk about now, which is the attention. So the relationship that now that, I made the ask just a couple of days ago for people to go sign up for 30 days of Genius, it's free, press the button, you get to hear from you, Richard Branson, Ariana Huffington--
I know what you're about to say.
You were stunned how much converted from Snapchat compared to other places that you've been on. Are you ready for this?
I've been a leader. I've been on it for seven years. I have 1.2 million followers. If I post on Twitter right now to tweet me something. And then I go, with my 1.2 million reach.
Potential reach. And then I go to Snapchat and tell people from Snapchat to go to Twitter and tell me something. More people do it from Snapchat.
Think about that.
So, I know. Why do you think I pinned you? (Chase laughs) How many times in the last four years have I bothered you and said, do this?
Not very many.
How about, I don't know.
Two or three.
Yeah, I mean, and honestly, I think you kinda, I think it's the only one. I'm trying to think if there was anything, like it's so rare--
It's when I'm trying to help you with the shit that you're working on--
No but, I mean like, oh yes, no, no. Asking you like, hey, I've got a book coming out, can we do something? No, I mean, Chase, for your vested interest, you need to go do this.
Once. Only once.
And that's, there we go, it's working.
There we go.
And that's why I did it, because I knew that it was going to benefit you and for me, the paying forward of, and think about it, here you have this important 30 Day genius thing.
You've only been doing Snapchat for 100 days.
Right, and think about, I mean it's crazy.
So one of the things that I'm trying to do--
Is I'm really trying to personalize as much of it as I can for the people that are responding to me. And it's a huge time commitment but it's very easy for me to do that in the back of an Uber, when I wake up, when I'm--
Does that mean one-on-one messaging with Rick or does that mean you've got a sense of what the community is there and you're producing content based on that?
Both things. I'm sort of living a dual life, and I'm finding, I actually personally extract value from seeing the messages from individuals because there's so much more context with video, and you know, reading a tweet, it's not bad, it's like, hey, man, you changed my life, you helped me in career. But to get like a visual message from someone, that's really, really powerful.
Have you started, have you, where's my phone? I have it.
Hey, how's it going, guys?
Have you started doing this, Chase? This is my favorite move right now on Snapchat. And maybe you guys, you'll see what I do and maybe you guys can show him on the screen.
And feel free to flip us some questions if you want, like, they're too small and happening too fast for me.
So, somebody will send you a message, and then you do this, thanks, bro. This is faster than typing and deeper relationship.
So, how is that different, that's a nice move right there, that's the (whistles).
Press the little camera button, that's what--
Exactly, so, like that camera button right there, if you do that, so one of the things I've been doing is, I've been able to respond to these things way more often. Right?
So, let me know if you're available, I'm not gonna say lost for words, because I said hello. Let me know when you're available, I'm honestly, like, lost for words right now for the sole reason you responded.
That's, I get 100 of those a day, it's amazing.
My friends on Facebook Live, all of you that are gonna watch her, let me make a really good actionable statement, though it's a big statement, it's just a general statement. Scaling the unscalable is where all the action is. The one asset that everybody knows, everybody's got the same amount of is time. And so, if you took the three seconds to say, hey or hello, or when you look here and say, hey, Julia Jarry, right?
You know, like, when you just do that, and I do that all the time, and then a lot of times, I like to hit the like. You know, like, the little, jeez, the little, there we go. And now Julian gets a Chase liked my, you know. You know, it's crazy, you may think it's very lightweight, but I call it the Ricky Henderson affect. For all you sports fans, Ricky Henderson was a very good baseball player in the 80's. I went to my first Yankees game, we sat fairly close, big ups to my dad for getting tickets from the liquor guys. We were fairly poor still, I went with my uncle because my dad always worked, and Ricky Henderson was going to the dugout, and whether he looked at me, because now, you know, a lot of times, I now wave at somebody in the crowd and like 80 people are like, hey, Gary waved.
Gary looked at me.
But he, he winked at me. That was it.
You were in, you were just like, fan for life.
And so, a like, a response, a hello, you know, this is what I wrote about with the Thank You Economy, two books ago, I think it really matters. And where the attention is of the time, you get even more. So, I don't get the reactions on Twitter for responding that I used to, but a Snapchat message response blows people away.
I love that it's so much, it's like, it's, the medium again is so powerful, video is more powerful than words for me because you can see the expression on someone's face, and I'm just sitting there like, I'm super happy to receive this from you. Thank you very much. And they get to see the expression, like, I know what it feels like to sit next to you, and this is the next best thing. There's an energy, there's sort of, you can't replicate that in a written word, you just fucking can't.
I totally agree. Big shout out to Jarred Poehler.
Yeah, what's up, Jarred. How you doing, bud?
Wanna fire off a couple questions? Sorry, there's too many questions coming in here. How can a photographer build a business where they're not doing all of the work?
Meaning, they want to build a business, they live in Philly, but the work is in Arizona?
I think more like, they want to build the business and not, not just be the only person, they want to be not the only person who's taking pictures. For me, if your name is on the door, then you have to take the pictures, because--
But there's photography firms that have employees, right?
For sure. That is a very different style of billing. Like, you can build a photography company. I think the amount of photography companies--
That would be VaynerMedia, right? My name's somewhat on the door.
It's not like I'm community managing for GE right now.
Right. But you're also not, your not actually the one taking the pictures, you're not actually the one who's writing the copy for the ads for the digital--
That's right. As long as, I think to that question, and they're both work, both work, I think the mistake that a lot of people make is, they're not upfront with people, in the beginning. So, I think if you have Chase Photography--
You need to, in your website, in your deck that you pitch, you need to say, look, I am Chase, I'm a great photographer. You don't get me, I've curated the 58 billion people that applied, and these are the 16 that I pick, and we will crush it against any other alternative. You know what I say, and by the way, I say this very rarely, because I'm busy, but sometimes if it feels right and if a clients big, I'm like, look, you could have me. I'm like, it's expensive. You know.
So, I'm actually a little bit, I have a slight different approach.
There is a way that you can build that business, but I don't think, I think, A, you deviate from the creativity part so fast, it's very hard to differentiate when there's a bunch of people who work for you, taking pictures if it's like John or Sally's wedding service and you get a bunch of photographers that are out there taking pictures. To me, that actually, that is a downgrade of your brand and your quality if, and actually, you can make a shitload more money, in my opinion, by being the best in the world, charging totally extremely higher prices.
Who's that really famous woman photographer that gets paid like a drillion?
There's a lot of them. Annie Leibovitz?
That's exactly right. I don't know, I just see that a lot, that she gets a drillion to do, like--
To me that's not--
Wait a minute, wait a minute, real quick, and this is interesting, this is why it's fun to have both, like, it comes down to you. So, like, to me, the thought of being, the thought of going in, we started this interview, you guys didn't see this on Facebook, but you guys did, I could make $150,000 giving a speech 200 days a year right now. Do you know how insane that is? You know how much money that is? To do something that's so, but I don't want to. I want to build scale, I love the idea of 53 VaynerMedia offices in Singapore and Sydney, Australia, and I'm not doing it, it depends on, but I love building businesses. So, you have to understand, if you love your craft, like, if there's 100%, how much of your percent is the craft, like, I like taking the photos, and how much are you an entrepreneur, I like building a photo firm. I think that's a really interesting thing. I want to jump into a question that I'm very passionate about.
Actually, you know what, before you do that, I'm gonna say one thing. So, to me, I'm just admitting that that for me, it was all about having Chase Jarvis the photographer, I did that for 10 or 15 years, very top, one half of one half of 1% of earners in the field.
And then you leveraged that to other opportunities.
Exactly. And I loved it, it was amazing, it was the craft, but after you do that, that feels like Groundhog Day, if you do it for 10 years, you got form the Apple shoot to the Nike shoot to the Mercedes shoot to the--
You do that for 10 years, you''re like, great, I want something bigger. I take my name off the door, how can we scale and instead of giving people fish, how can we teach millions of people to fish?
I totally understand.
So, I'm trying to do both games.
And listen, by the way, I started a marketing firm on the back of me being the marketer of a liquor business and wine shop and learning the craft. I did 10 years of operating my marketing craft. I didn't win the wine library game by being the best at stocking the shelves.
So this guys got a great question. Koh Evey says, what do I tell the wife when I want to do more non-paid photography work to increase work for photography work? I'm fascinated by this question.
I'm dying to hear what you're going to say because I have a feeling this is very big in your world. I'm one of the great advocates of spec work.
In the world. I will, still now, I just out loud said I get paid six figures to speak. If it's the right event, that does the right thing for me at my brand, to get more work, I will go and speak. If TED and Davos and South By don't want to pay me, and by the way, that's where I'm at now, so that's what it takes, but the 50 that I say no to now, that came in today, they were all the ones that I said yes to, in 2006 and '07. Because I had to pay my dues, you've got to play the small clubs to play the stadiums and the best play the small clubs while they're playing the stadiums. Koh, I'm going to say this with all due respect to your wife, my intuition when I see that is your wife doesn't understand business. She's a transactor, she's looking at you and saying, Koh, don't do that. You get paid, yelling at you, you get paid for that. What she doesn't understand is if you do the right four or five projects, shit, if you do one--
I mean, tell me this is right, right.
I've lived it.
One picture can change your career.
Absolutely. I've been paid $50,000, more than 50,000 bucks for a picture on a lot of occasions and the first time I did it, it was a game changer. It went from literally eating Ramen to I had a photo studio with employees.
Yeah, it is and that scale--
Did you get paid for that photo?
Okay, well so to me, the better part of the story, you fucked up my story, it would've been is if you did it--
So here, I'm gonna actually, here's the creator's response as like, I know we're both creators, but in the photography__
No, I've got it.
So, I advocate one of two, actually I advocate one thing and that is, playing both games and stay the fuck out of the middle. So, you either like, my rate is 10 grand but I love your project, I know you don't have 10 grand, I judge things on two accounts. One, do I love them, is it passionate? Do I love the people, the brand? Is it an opportunity or do I get sort of paid? And when I can put them both together, that's great, but I'm not going to take $500, because the $500 person never turns into the 50,000 person, because when they have 50 grand, they don't say, oh let's call the $500 photographer. So, I will either do it for free and do it for the full rate, and anything in between is danger.
I totally, fundamentally agree with that. I'm a big fan of the clouds and the dirt. The extremism of the raw, raw, raw and the high, high, high. And I'm a big believer in that. And by the way, I also think you have to know where you're at.
Oh yeah, pretending, it's gonna get ya in trouble.
Yeah, I'm so big, the amount of friends that yell at me, the designers got so mad at me when I started doing this, they're like, Fuck you, Gary Vee, you're gonna give away wine for free. I'm like, dude, you're in the service business. Like, I paid for the wine, thus I resell it for more. I'm like, I'm in the service business now. I do tons of stuff for spec to be a gateway drug to get paid. I'm like, dude, nobody knows who the fuck you are.
Your designs not that great. You think you're so great, why don't you get some business and money before you worry about spec work. People are more upset about the religion and the emotion around it than how it actually practically affects them.
That's so true. It's so true.
Yeah, you got one more question?
Yeah, you want another question, Nasim? Why don't you fire some of them. In the meantime I'm going to go back to that.
The problem that I see with people trying to work for $500 is that they will always be at that $500 rate.
Well look, I think it also comes down to who they are. I mean, one thing I would tell a lot of you and I've told a lot of my photography friends and painting friends is, never do the next job for what you did the last one for until the market tells you, fuck you.
Always swim upstream.
It's how I did my speaking career. I didn't know how to price.
I got a story, I'll do it in one second.
First call ever, he's like, Gary Vee, we want you to speak at this event. I'm like, yeah. They're like, what's your fee? I'm like, what? I was like, hold on. I was like, holy shit, this is amazing. And when I picked it back up, I'm like, so I'm a business man at this point, I'm 32 years old, built a big business, so I'm no dope. I'm not like, how did this happen? I go, okay I'm like, what's the most expensive number I can throw because I can always go, right?
Sure and without laughing at yourself, right?
Right. So I'm like, $5,000.
And they said, great.
That's great, we'll send you over the contract. I'm like, fuck. (Chase laughs) So we're talking and by the way, I'm a bad guy, I'm a bad guy, listen to this. And we're talking and I'm like, motherfucker, he said yes so fast.
Yes so fast, it's terrible.
So we're talking, we're talking. And he said, okay, let's wrap it up here. So you're going to give a one-hour talk for... I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought you said a half an hour talk. (Chase laughs) I go, I'm sorry bro, I feel so, my ear, maybe I didn't hear, like I'm so apologetic but, I've got to be honest with you, for one hour talks it's $10,000. He goes, okay, great. I go, fuck. (laughing) I was so pissed. I'm hopeful that, if they're watching me after watching here that if, you should always have the confidence and the self-esteem to raise it one more time, raise it one more time. And the market will say no for sure.
At some point.
But find out what that is. Find out what the, and people ask me, well what's your rate? I'm like, I don't have a rate. I try and figure out how much money you have and I extract that plus five dollars.
And because what it makes you do is realize and respect the value of the person who's sitting across the table from you. It's like, what I want you to say is like, how much is it to speak? 20 grand, like, oh shit. I have to go back, we only had 15 budget, I think I might be able to make it happen and they go back and great, we got 20. So just swim upstream just a little bit.
All right, so, I think we're going to end this, I've got to go back and we're going to need to wrap up a couple of things to show, and I'm going to talk a little bit about this before we go, so, you folks out here in Facebook land, thank you very much. I love you and this is on 30 Days of Genius. So if you haven't heard of that thing or you haven't like click the blue signup button, it's free, so you know, with me, Gary, Richard Branson, Ariana Huffington. Like, do it, let's go. Come on, bye. Great advice, thanks guys. Bye Matt, bye Alvin, bye Karen.
I have three minutes.
All right, let's go through this fast.
Merp. All right so, I like sitting close to ya. It's good energy, but also, it's hot. It's warm. This, you've been on a tirade of this thing for the last like 60 Days.
Fair to say?
Yes. What are you working on next?
Building VaynerMedia. And putting out great shows. I did a call in show for episode that I loved. Like, the Ask Gary Vee Show and like call in format. Becoming a 1970s radio show host. Loved it, so I'm going to do that. And the Daily Vee, the Vlog that I'm doing. I'm just going to do more practitioner stuff. I'm going to, the time that I'm not doing podcasts or things like this, I'm going to play with musical.ly. I'm going to play with Anchor. I'm going to play with After School. I'm going to play with all these emerging platforms and I'm also going to stay very on top of Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Instagram. So, I'm going to go into practitioner mode.
Which I truly believe separates me from a lot of the people that look like me.
I'm doing and talking about it.
Not I did it once and now I'm going to spend the rest of my time talking about it and I think it's dangerous for a lot of us creators. You get to a level when you're not in the dirt anymore and I think that's dangerous.
Let's go to the clouds and the dirt.
The dirt is doing it. Now, we can't actually be, well if you take a great picture and then you spend a year marketing it, you're never going to get anywhere. And the same is true for so many different professions, but let's talk about people who have that problem.
And how do you avoid it?
Look, I think you have to first self assess it.
You have to realize you're in it. This is why you watch stuff like this. I'm always hopeful that an interview brings value to somebody.
Of course. So, you know, if you're not happy with what's happening with your results, you have to look at it. You know, Vayner has not won as many new businesses pitches lately. I'm looking at it very aggressively. Because what I want to happen is not happening. So, if you got this great picture and you've been marketing it for a year and you haven't sold it and nothing else is happening and your funds are drying up because you just, you believe subjectively you have this great picture, I mean, I think that's probably a problem.
Yeah. The marketplace doesn't value it.
I think that's right.
So, what's around the corner? Like, you mentioned four or five apps in a row there, you're talking about musical.ly, you talked about a couple others I didn't track.
I think what's definitely around the corner is the continuation of this being the primary device in our society, and I think that the 40, and 50, and 60 year olds are starting to realize it, and I think when that happens in society, because don't get it twisted, kids, as much as, I'm not a kid anymore, but as much as you want to believe, there's always some old chick and old dude that are actually pulling the strings, their belief in this revolution is now about to happen, and that's gonna burst open everything. It's gonna be a very interesting decade of greater opportunity that we've ever seen. On the flip side, a lot of start ups are about to go out of business because they were all built to burn too much cash and not make money, and so it's gonna be a very interesting landscape for next decade in my one person's point of view of a lot of carnage, but a lot of roses out of the concrete, and so that's why I push practitionership so much, because you can't just be good at fundraising anymore, because you gotta build something.
Three questions about Gary. Number one, morning routine, what do you think about, what do you care about, how do you start your day?
I poop, I look at my phone, I look at my calender, I look at the top 150 free apps in the Apple Store to figure out what's popping.
I do that every morning, it's the first thing I do.
How important is taking care of yourself physically?
Look, I think it's super important, I mean--
You were 30 pounds heavier the last time we did this.
I didn't, I didn't do it for a long time. I did it because I think it's important. I know you can get hit by a bus, I know that cancer doesn't care, a lot of times, what weight you're at. On the flip side, control what you can control, and so, I think that's happening. And you know what I'm excited about? Forget the physical thing, because I think that's been in the air for 20 years.
The mental thing is coming.
Oh, for sure.
Meditation, mental health.
I'm a huge advocate of all that stuff.
I'm very excited that we're starting to talk about depression and suicide, and I think it's healthy, I'm excited about it. I think I'm so mentally fit, I want to, I feel guilty that I got lucky that I want to provide the conversation. That's why I'm trying to reframe entrepreneurship, how hard it is, how depressing it can be. And I think it's very important.
What's something that people don't know about you that they would be surprised if they found out? This is the last question, so think about it for a second. I'm gonna start to close the show. You're thinking, and while he's thinking, I need you to sit on that couch for another five seconds after we're done so I can take your picture, and then we'll get you out of here. So, now, back to the question, one thing that if you told people, they would be surprised they didn't know about you.
I hate, and I mean viscerally, I'm visceral to confrontation.
I told you.
Mainly because, when it's camera time and it's stage time, I'm very into it because I'm not talking to an individual person, but on the individual level, my biggest business weakness is, I hate firing people, and I was very bad at it, and it's because I hate negativity. The reason my companies have great culture is because I hate negativity, so I fire all the cancers no matter how good they are, because I suffocate in confrontation. Only at Jet games and in public domains do I like confrontation, but everywhere else--
It's also safer that way, right?
Yeah, like, there's the crowd and there's you.
Like, the guy who's wearing the Patriots jersey isn't really Don, right? He's a piece of shit fucking Brady fan. You know what I mean? It's general. Like, when I'm on stage, that's not Karen, that's corporate America that's fucking stupid with television commercials, got it? It's not Sal, it's, he's a young kid entrepreneur bullshitter, he only knows how to raise money, got it? But when it's on a one by one, I'm visceral, I hate it. I'm very honey over vinegar, I don't like to be tough, I don't yell at people. All my employees get a real kick out of the friends and family that are fans of me, and when they tell them, like, how like, how ridic-- Like, overwhelmingly soft I am in the trenches, they're completely flabbergasted if they only see my public keynotes.
Beautiful. (claps) Thanks for you time, brother.
You got it, brother.
All right, I don't know what camera to look at right now because we blew this whole set up, but I'm gonna look at this one right now. Sign up for 30 days of genius, you get another one of these tomorrow. Thanks a lot for your time. I'm Chase, this is my friend, Gary. (soft instrumental music)