Pricing: A La Carte
The great thing in this next segment is not only are we going to talk about all the cart but we're actually gonna bring one of you up here and we're going to go through your pricing assata you're the lucky one he's going to end up coming up and what we're going to do with saudia is go through her current pricing and talk about it talk about what's been working talk about what you know what hasn't working, what improvements we can make to it and then in the next segment after lunch is when we're really going to go through and maybe reconstruct or rebuild modify changed tweak etcetera great exercise because that's the nuts and bolts of what we're doing it's one thing to learn the science behind this but if I just gave you the science then you wouldn't have necessarily the tools to go out there and make the changes so kind like we talked a lot yesterday about finding your purpose and about how to build a business based on you and then we finished the day with homework on what you're actua...
lly needed to dio were into the same similar structure today and they were going to give you all the theories when a president prepare you guys with theories about pricing and then we'll also do a lot of practical how to so let's go ahead and cut the elkhart and talk about the ala carte pricing model very different than the pricing model of packages packages are your your guiding them toe by a certain specific package? And you're meeting their needs with what your needs are in that package you're giving them exactly what they want in the package that they want to buy. All the card is different because all a cart is a completely different theory. All a cart is based on the idea that you're giving them one base, offering it's the base that all things can be built from and they have the option and the freedom to build from that base offering and added exactly what they want. Think of it like I don't know if you guys grew up on choose your own adventure books think of it like a cheese. You're an adventure but far less complicated, of course, it's like a choose your own adventure book that's all on one page way want to create a choose your own adventure book for them, it's all on one simple page that's what the card is now, I told you guys, is that I think both methods can be successful, and I really do believe that not like in both messes methods be successful, but packages are simpler to put into practice, they are more common and more popular, and they're easier when you're first starting out, all a cart can make you more money. And here's why in the all the car pricing model you are matching their trust incrementally when they're booking I'm gonna explain more of that team but that is why you can make more money in the l a cart again if you need more tips and that we have a pricing guide that's available to everyone who purchases the course and you get all those things broken down we will talk about some of them here on the air but they're all broken down in that online pricing course I'm gonna put it back up one more time to set the stage against the tone of what we're talking about ala carte same principle applies clarity same principle still applies it through your pricing and your packaging you have the opportunity to create clarity or confusion and this seriously affects not only the a number of events weddings, portrait's whatever it is you're booking nadella's affect the number of them but how much they spend so let's go ahead and look at the four key points about all a cart so we had the four key points about packages now we have the four key points about all the cart I wish it was three because I like three so much there's a natural but it's not it's four why couldn't pricing theory have three key points but we're stuck with four so there it is the four key points here once again starting price you know that one's going to be the same the starting price in this case, we're talking about your base coverage option because in all the cart there aren't packages there's just one option and in a whole lot of extras remember that so the starting price is the base coverage number two every offering has to be uniquely attractive now that wasn't the case with packages packages because bundle things together, and we're relying on a whole bunch of tenants to make the next option up a new tract of offer with ala carte we're relying on every single offering teo uniquely attractive, every single offering has to be uniquely attractive, able to be booked on its own merit without help or support from another product or service that you offer. I see a lot of autocracy to ala carte make a mistake when it comes to making every offering uniquely attractive, they don't price and clearly message each product uniquely and so some selling some don't sometimes they don't sell because the client just doesn't want it, but sometimes they don't sell because you don't do a good job of making it uniquely attractive. Number three ys and flexibility all a cart works so well because it's so flexible the perception of ala carte I can get anything I want I can choose my own adventure with packages we feel a little bit boxed in you know, we talked yesterday about how I don't want to feel like I'm stereotyped by one or the other, you know, we talked about the words this morning having words and having the real meanings of words and we don't want to get boxed in by the words we choose we want to be able to be free in the words we choose by the same token packages to clients can feel sometimes like you're getting boxed in a little bit well, my first, the second, the third that's it that's all I have and we do like that, but there is value in ease and flexibility. There is value in going I really can't have everything I want now that's a double edged sword, to say the least because I really believe in freedom from choice rather than freedom of choice and we'll talk a lot more about that see we have to be very careful, it's not a simple just put it all out on a page and expecting that people will buy it. I'm sure a lot of people out there can can can talk about that and how that doesn't work very well. The fourth point is touch points and what I mean by touch points is that you have tohave built in touch points with your clients throughout the experience, otherwise they will not come back and buy if you expect to book your base coverage and then they'll just come back one day and announced they're going to spend five thousand dollars a year the blue oh it's not gonna happen it's just simply not going to happen. You have to have touch points that give them an opportunity to come back and buy. We talked yesterday about it's one thing to do a good job for them and create advocates if another thing to create a story for them and create evangelists by the same token, you're not going to sell anything on your ala carte list if you don't keep in touch with them and give them an opportunity to buy from you. A huge problem is people put out a price list, they put it on a cart lest they book that base coverage and then they said they never come back and buy and I say, well, did you ever give him the opportunity to well, they know my email address that's not an opportunity. They know my phone number that's not an opportunity that's not an opportunity. You have to give them an opportunity to come back to get give them a chance to figure out what they want and what meets there must have and to buy that and so you have to have those built in touch points and a lot of times people get busy they set up an ala carte prices in the beginning of the year before they have, you know, busy season, and they get the busy season, and those touchpoints keeping in contact with them kind of falls a little bit to the side, even with the best plan to system that we talked about in segment two yesterday, even with the best plan system they don't touch, they don't reach out and have those touch points, and then at the end of the other, like, oh my gosh, I didn't reach the numbers I needed to reach, because I never actually followed through with a client about it. So you have to have this built in touch points that something she has been really helpful for me just being totally transparent because it has reminders built in for me, it has e mails that I've pre written, and then I could just go in and kind of personalize a little bit and send him out. It has that scheduled into my work flows, and so that's been really helpful for me over the years, because I'll admit sometimes you get busy, and that stuff tends to be the stuff that falls to crack sometimes, so you know, again, going back to how valuable system is that let's set this up to achieve success with our daily work flow and providing an amazing experience for them every single time that's what good system does for us ok, so let's talk about the key to the coverage now I'm really going to break this up into two components the coverage component which is that base coverage the base covers that base package when we were called the base component of yellow card which is kind of minimum they come by and then the products that they can add onto it and then these air how we want to make our coverage and our product components so with coverage we want to make it easy to book simple, simple, simple and this is different than this is different than clear by the way clarity and simplicity or two different things this isn't taking away from clarity but this isn't the word clarity I'm not using here not clarity this is simple you need to make it simple for them the book it can't be hard and by that I mean is it complicated for them to understand what their booking is it hard for them to go from where they are when they're meeting with you tow by in that base coverage that's the real benefit of ala carte don't worry about making those it's all those big decisions right now just worry about whether you want me to be your photographer we'll talk about that a little bit more later but that's the that's the real value of allah cart don't worry about an album we'll figure that out later. Don't worry about how many hours of coverage you need. We'll figure that out later truly separate what you need from who you want that's the value that's, the secret message of allah, cart and that's why it works so well that's why it's a great way to work with clients easy to add coverage so again, if if the cell is don't worry about how much coverage you need, we'll figure it out later. Make it easy for them to figure it out later they'll make it hard don't make it laborious. The downside of allah cart is you the nice thing about packages and the downside of all card is that you do have to talk about pricing more than once, you know about some of us feel like, oh let's, just get that price and talk out of the way with and now we can all go back to being happy, and with all the cart you do have to have that conversation more than once and so make it easy on them and likewise easier on yourself. By making that conversation easy, make it easy for them to add to get to the amount of covers they want to get to delay decisions again, the whole premise of successful ala cart is don't worry about all that stuff now. Delay you can delay the decision until later but you have to make it easy for them delay the decision you have to give them that option otherwise ala carte won't work. The wonderful thing about when sarah and I got married was that we had that that was the way that it was presented to us. You know, we ended up booking sarah france to shoot our wedding she's an awesome dog were down in san diego and my wife fell in love with her. She knew sarah before we met her for our wedding when we met her it was so simple but we didn't have to figure out what we needed out of the coverage. We have to figure out what we need to the product. It was just the only decision we had to make was do we want sara to shoot our wedding and we looked each other were like yeah, you know, after me were like yeah and so we booked right there on the spot if we had to figure out how many hours of coverage we need if we had to figure out what which exact album we wanted if we had to figure all those things out that would have made it harder to make that decision and we might have left to think about it, we might have gone home to think about it we might have never followed through and booked think about that think about how easy it is to just decide who you want to see your wedding to just decide who you want to shoot your family portrait session to just decide who you want to be your boudoir photographer and then figure out what you want from them later it also goes back to what we talked about yesterday the why versus the what you're separating all the way down to a psychological level you're allowing them to separate the why of what you do from the what of what you do instead of making yourself all about the products you offer in the coverage you provide your breaking it down to just why why me and if you believe in my wife and you believe in what I stand for then you're gonna book me I love all a cart looking to roll and I love packages to I love it all I don't have to take so I won't no must haves in the coverage you can't put the must haves in that base coverage otherwise I'll never come back and bite him or you're giving them what they need give them what they want again it's not a coy game it's a matter of taking those out so they have an easy time in booking and they don't have to labor over it and then giving them the freedom the flexibility to buy what they truly want when they want to buy it it's not about removing, must have not given it to him it's about giving them the freedom, the flexibility to buy it when they want to buy it, you're giving them option to buy when they want to buy it, and for your client that might or might not be better. But that's the benefit of allah cart keys the product so no product goes in with the coverage. The one fudge factor there is maybe print credit could go in the coverage or album credit. What we can talk about that a bit more, but no actual product. I don't want to see any albums in your base coverage. It flies in the face of what all the cards stands for don't you know? And again here's the shadow side, the supplies back to packages, by the way, I'll just take this moment here to just talk about this. This is the shadow side of putting product and too much of it in your package or your ala cart is we understand that when we're building our packages or when we're building our ala cart and we include product, we look it as we're giving them that product. We're like oh I'll put in a canvas print I'm going put a canvas print top package I'm going put a canvas print the middle package and we're like well I don't really know if it's a must have but it's an extra it's a goody more is better they'll get more yes that's true but you guys don't realize the shadow side of that think about it for a second if you are a discerning a couple and you walk in and you see a canvas print the middle package something that you threw in there as a gift to sweeten the pot what if they don't really want a canvas print now all of a sudden in their minds their pain what they're paying for something they don't even want they're paying for something they don't want that's why must have are so important and gave them right is so important to get it wrong now instead of giving them what they want you're making him pay for something they don't want you know what it's like when you go toe it's like when you go somewhere you know I have this example where I go toe I went to a padre game ah couple guy must be a couple of months ago now and you got the part again for the experience because the products not so good but we're at the padre game and I wanted to so it was like a really hot day I wanted a soda in so I walked over to get a soda or anything normally drink so but that's a different story altogether they got me to buy a soda but so I bought a soldier like sir you know they handed to me or they said sir what size do you want and I said I'll have the middle size and they said oh good that comes in a souvenir mug I was like oh, I don't really want to see when your mug how much is it if I don't have a souvenir mug and it's included and so instantly I'm like I don't want one how much I'm thinking to myself I'm getting ripped off because I'm paying for a mug a souvenir cup that I don't want and to them they're like well it's only an extra ten cents just throw it in they will justify the nine dollars so the price we just charged him but really all I could think about is I just got ripped off doesn't happen we throw product in that we don't know that they want especially on the card because it flies in the face of what l a cart stands for second key must have are easy to purchase you have to make them very easy to buy and we'll talk about how to make them very easy to buy we'll talk about that the concept there is that you know if that's they must have make it very easy for them to buy that make it very easy for them we talked about guiding them and helping them out with the middle package it's the same thing here were guiding them and helping them out and understand that we want them to buy that just as much as they want to buy it maximizes ease again the whole selling point with all the card in general but with a product component really what we're focusing the product component is that it maximizes the eases just easy don't worry about the product will figure that out later don't worry about the product we can figure that out later and remember why I think it can make you more money is because you are reaching them incrementally as your trust as their trust in you is increasing you are reaching them with more opportunity to buy think about the package model and by the way I'm not I really want to make clear I am not in any way advocating for one of the other I'm just presenting the benefits of each but in the package model you were asking them to spend every dime that you want them to spend with you at the moment that they trust you the least in that first meeting if you do your job right there going to be in love with you by the time you're done they're gonna invite you the family events yet you we know sales is all about trust, and you sold to them at the moment of least trust now, sometimes that's unavoidable, but sometimes it's not, and all the cart makes it so it's not you get to sell to them as their trust in you increases that's the philosophy behind ala carte is that your meeting, their trust with sales opportunities and because they trust you more, they'll feel mohr encouraged to buy the things that they must have. The whole point of all this is to give them the things that they want and make it easy for them to buy what they want from you, to know what they want, and then to make it easy for them to buy that that's pricing theory at its at its at its core, the last key to product is we can do some bundling. We could do some bundling effects in the ala carte price list, and that allows us to mimic the benefit of a package. So when we bundle, things were kind of mimicking what a package concept does were kind of pulling from the good parts about packages, with leading some of the bad parts behind and that's a bundling dozen in all of cart's scenario. Okay, let's, go and talk about based coverage here. So this is an example from the when we were doing all the card a couple of years ago is an example of what our base coverage wass it was thirty to fifty, and it came with six hours, one photographer it came with a wedding day agenda where we prepare all of the tenants of the wedding day, all the shots, all that sort of thing. We would put down an unlimited number of hand edited photographs, and we would go on to explain that that, you know, typically he yielded about six hundred to seven hundred finished images. We would put all their images into an online wedding slide show set to music and the like, and then we put together a personalized viewing and ordering website. And so that is the base coverage that's the base model notice that didn't have, you know, our must have steps stay the same. It didn't have any of our must have noticed that it's very easy to book. Why is easy the book? Because I know that ninety eight percent of our clients need at least six hours of coverage on the wedding day they're never going to go, you know, not ever, but very rarely, you know, the two percentile? Are they going to say, I don't need six hours I know that they need at least six hours, and so putting six hours of based coverage means that this is easy for everyone to book. Everyone can go, I nominate at least I know I'm nearly six hours. I don't know how many hours I need yet by no, nearly six, so I can book this now and not have to feel like I might want to retract on like that, you know? So it has a lot of the core tenets we talked about in that base coverage. It doesn't, including must haves it's very easy to book it's very simple and that's the key in all of car model is a simple idea member different than clarity simple now interest the occasion, the equation I'm sorry, and so this is kind of what looked like this is what we presented to our clients there back in I think those two thousand eleven, when we're doing on the card, I wouldn't post this if I didn't think anything in here was inaccurate or was changed again, we switched back and forth for reasons that go well beyond to go back to you know what we're trying to do as a company and how we're trying to meet our clients and how we were advancing as a company. And, you know, all the cards and packages, they have different things you need to consider at the core of why you're doing it, and so we went back and forth. I truly believe both could be successful, and so you had your coverage out there now, really? You don't even need to list out the hours there, you see that that is a presentation trick that can it can work well, freeing it can backfire on you, you know? And so you're always tearing the line. We'll go to that presentation, but really, all you need to do is post six hours and you compose mr ours as a one liner, so we'll talk about the presentation there, but really, as you can see it's just two hundred dollars an hour extra on beacon, talk more about that in the presentation section and segment for later on today way had hours in the coverage, and then you can see that we kind of grouped it so that you could book things that was associated with your shoot right there below that, and then your products were all off to the right, and your products were very easy to book, and the must haves were very easy to book their they're very matter of fact, I don't even present anything except for companion albums, that isn't a must have I didn't present stuff if you want to buy a print, no problem it's not even on their though you want to buy, you know you wanna buy a canvas print problem, we sweet sellem but didn't put it on there. I am put on there, it's clear, it's, clear and simple clarity, simplicity, it's all about these things, and you'll notice that way actually utilize the bundling techniques we talked about, so the bundling techniques we talked about are visible down there where we put guys back then were calling vigilant negatives, trying to really read every one of the term negatives. We'll see if that works twelve fifty or a complimentary with any album purchase that's bundling, I'm going to get into the science and the strategy behind that right there there's some fascinating strategy buying that that I love, but the reality is for today's conversation for right now for before lunch is conversation that is bundling its taking their number one must have and their number two must have and bundling it together. And I've been doing this for about seven years now and it's been fun to kind of I'm not taking credit for it all, but what I'm saying is, it's been fun to slay watch over the years, this bundling concept catch on it's a great way to meet the clients needs with their one of their digital files their high rez files it's a great way to meet their needs because that's the number one must have for a lot of people that I work with you know the number one must have for most people I console the most the feedback I get from the pricing course video that's online is my number one must have is my files he doesn't say it out loud number we're collaborative group here on dso were bundling we're using the bundling theory here and putting that with an album you want your files great come within out more you can buy them what do most people end up doing the album yeah two hundred fifty of course of course so again what were the keys about the covers this review easy to book is that coverage six hours easy to just book yes it's kind of gives me what I need it gives me a groundwork is started what I need easy to book second tent what was the second time you remember easy to add good yes thank you easy to add coverage is it easy to add onto this coverage just ten dollars an hour extra easy to add delay decisions can you delay decisions here you can jump on board and by just the coverage secure me for your wedding day and we'll figure out the rest later. Oh, that sounds good I don't really want to think about the rest now I am so stressed out and overwhelmed I did not know that this is like having a full time job if I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say that yes, I know you know that's the first time I've heard that if they're overwhelmed they're so overwhelmed delaying decisions is like a breath of fresh air for them and then you gotta get him to come back in because they'll delay the decision for you ten years and they can but again different story for different day fourth most important thing again is there's no motive there's no must have in the coverage component no must have coverage is not a must have in my no again I get feedback a lot from that pricing course video that's online that all day coverage is can be a must have for people there are there are definitely photographers to attract clients who need them all day those aren't my clients I don't attract that kind of client and so that does get picky when it comes to when it comes to all the cart we get into a sticky situation when it comes to all the cards and so when we look at the products one of the four most important things that comes to product no product with the coverage we didn't include any product with the coverage as you can see there and I'm not a fan of throwing it in, I'm not a fan of throwing product in the coverage because of that shadow side it's either a must have, which means you know they want it, which means you shouldn't put the coverage because then that doesn't make it easy for doesn't make it easier for them to just book and delay decisions. It's either I must have or if it's not a must have, then you run the risk of giving them something that they never wanted in the first place and that's going term away must have have to be easy to purchase and you can see here the must haves are very easy to purchase. The must haves are very easy to buy, and we've used really just second point the fourth point together, making the must haves easy to buy through bundling and the bundling makes it almost a bit of a slam dunk. This also maximizes ese it's very simple in the way it's laid out, which we'll get to more about that it's very simple in the way that it's structured and that's what you want out of your ala carte you want it to be very, very simple, okay? Yeah question, so you're going to show them all this that your first meetings, they don't have sticker shock later on right exactly come back and they're like well I didn't think it would cost yes you don't want and this is something we're going to talk a lot about in sales more take home so I could take it home or is it more just like look at this now and then we'll come back and later just descend like a copy of this home with if I guess if they wanted tio sure I mean I'm all about getting to decide right there on the spot I am about transparency and clarity though so you know if they might be interested in album down the road all you've given one or I'll be like yeah whenever you I want to talk about I'll send you a copy I'll show it to you yeah this would live is a pdf on our website and we just kind of hidden pdf yes up there so it's not like you can click through to but it's like we can send you a link to and you can see it whenever you want it we're not trying to hide it from you but I also don't want to send you home with too much information and you brought up a great point and we're going to get more into that tomorrow jason I know one of the things I've learned from jason in sales is how important it is to be transparent and up front you don't want any surprises surprises of the worst thing to sales because we feel taken advantage of the trust evaporates just gone just evaporates like that when people feel like they might be getting taken advantage of and communication is a way to get around that I talked a little bit about having upfront communication to achieve your expectations along with there's well if your expectations that they want to buy an album you better basically tell them up front by showing them that pricing so when those they book you initially and they get a book portion of the coverage they gonna pick how much is there set deposit that you great question in that way take twenty five percent of whatever they put together when they book and so I literally will tell everyone pretty much I mean yeah you know, unless you guys know exact what you want just book like six or seven hours of coverage and we can figure it out later and then sometimes occasionally like no you know it's just easier you know dad's write the check let's just take care of this now you know what we know we want possible was put together six hours or you know whatever eight hours of coverage to photographers the album yeah let's do it all once great that makes my life easier and by the way we reward you by giving you ten percent off your product when you book it with the coverage so there is that incentive that if you know what you want, you'll get something for it now, you know it's not much ten percent I mean ten percent almost feels like a joke nowadays it's something though it helps it does help reward the people who know what they want ahead of time it helps the people who know what they want to get a little bit and we do have those people you know, I know typically my clients aren't you know aren't clients that have mom and dad paying for the wedding because I tend to work with professionals of the capital p they tend to get married later in life they tend to pay for their own wedding they tend invite less guests their wedding because they're professionals and they don't have a bunch of friends from college, they have their professional group of friends, you know? I mean, I could go on and on about my client and my client doesn't typically have that so but if you're a client who books a lot of brides and grooms for twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four just out of college, maybe dad's paying for the wedding you know are you know mom and dad are pain they might want to book everything all at once that might yield itself more towards a package model for you or it might also you yield yourself to be more open to booking on ala cart with the packaging sorry with the product included as well but for me that's something doesn't really entertain coming to play that often and so what I say six, seven hours and like yeah that's a good idea when you know well by well by already by it it's like yeah I'm all about that and so it's very easy for them but again I think you bring up a great point and that is to be very upfront and transparent about how much all of card can get a bad rap if you use it wrong if you just you know and really this is I wasn't gonna go into this but you brought up a good point and I think I'm going to really quickly the third method a methodology of of of a booking of a pricing system in our industry is not one that's used as much now is used a little bit more back ten fifteen years ago and see up sell method and the up sell method is different the ela cartman the up sell method is where you try to book your coverage with the anticipation of product being books later but the difference is that in all the cart everything can stand on its own equally remember we talked about that everything is uniquely attractive and can be uniquely booked on its own whereas in the up sell method you are discounting the stuff in the front end with the hope and sometimes sketchy sales tactics to back up booking mohr product in the back in to make up for that that's the up sell method and it is different because it's got a primary goal that's different than the all cargo so the up sell method is I'm going to just discount my problem my coverage to get him in the door and then slam him with a bunch of you know, high priced albums or things like that I mean I'm being very dramatic it's not necessarily a bad model I just I don't think in our industry it makes much sense because it's just not it's not transparent it's not coming alongside your client and trying to meet you know I want packages or ala carte I want at the base of it for you to provide your client with what they were I don't I don't want you to try to sell them something they don't want I'm not about that they're never going to love you they're never going to turn into true believers if you sell them something they never wanted in the first place all of this comes back to how do I give them what they want in a simple and easy of a way for them to buy it and the up so much that does not feel like that to me but it is a method and the way you get around doing that is being ultra transparent with him and very clear up front so they know what they're going to walk into down the road any questions online audience? You know what we have coming from the interwebs hey knew it was going all right, so let's, just dive in with photo graphics miami's first question was with allah cart how can you make sure that they spend what you need them to spend there's more risk involved in all the card? No doubt about it with packages let's say that you are a package model photographer and you book twenty weddings in the year and those bookings typically comes six months a year out, so I mean by june by may you know how much you're going to make that whole year almost down to ten to fifteen percent within a package model in all car model you have absolutely no idea and so all the car is far riskier. I don't recommend ala carte somebody in the first years of business because of that risk elkhart has risk associated with it, but again, if you know your must have you're confident in those must have, you know that you're constantly ascertained them, then you know it really does work out as long as you follow this these guidelines you structure and build in touch points to make sure they come back and it could get the things they want. But again, if you're matching what they want with an easy way for them to buy it, that is going to happen that is going to happen and, um follow up from you as mean one slightly different question how do you set yourself apart when everyone's packages have the same must haves as full fare items? I can't I don't think that everybody's packages have the same must have I think that would mean that you're not digging deep into what your clients want and you're ready to just following and copy whatever else is doing, it is easier that way, by the way is easy to fall prey to that. I certainly did it a little bit when I was starting out because we don't know it's confusing stuff for us. Another great point by what's confusing for us. How do we expect our clients to understand it clearly different story altogether, but don't follow what every else is doing don't settle for their must have figure out your own must haves it's complicated it's hard you have to get it right, but if you get it right, don't worry about every else is doing it doesn't matter what you attract is uniquely different than whatever he also tracks perfect all right next question from a tyg d should a photographer offered either allah court or packages or is it appropriate to sometimes offer both never one or the other? You can't serve two masters now don't confuse us with the extras list a lot of people continues all a cart with the extras lesson say I offer both when we dig it it's like no you offer packages you offered extras list the bacon by extras off of and that's different the elkhart modeling remember what's the goal on what's the structure the structure is either packages or ala carte you can't do both they will play in rip each other apart so extras list always exists so yes, whether you sell package or ala carte people can always come back and buy an album later a year later, ten years later they want they can always come back and buy a print a campus you know, whatever it is you always have that extras list but that's not to be confused with the ala carte list and you have to pick packages for ala carte you can't do both. We'll go into a little more detail we get to the advanced techniques of why you can't but in theory and just at the top level you can't do both because it plays against each other you're trying to drive them and try to the ultra clear you're about promoting clarity and having two options already divides them and we talked about how confusing prices to begin with when you give them, you know, when you get into the options you can't, you can't ever expect for them tio to follow suit and be clear and understand it's really clear to me way want to clarify that you just want to be earlier. So you said no all the car in the first, you would not recommend it in the first two years that's my recommendation now, ok, so we have a question from jose, I'm photos as when you kind of know that you're ready when you, you know, like the back of your hand, your must have because you're going to risk your neck on those must haves I mean, in all a card you're going to be sitting there may go on sure hope I did the most e because all I've got is a bunch of coverage booked right now, and I need to know that, but I'm not going to know that cell, that album or those files or whatever it is, and you don't want to come at the end of the year in december again on these the what if time is an example, but the same is true for products same is true for portrait, but you want to come to the aid of the year in december, if you like oh really thought that I was a must have and it wasn't and now I'm broke you know you don't want to put yourself in that position so I don't recommend ala carte until you're ready to say conference me my number one must have my number too must have and my number three must have all right so packages to begin with right? So at any time do you ever recommend like let's say you starting with packages and like six months into the year you're realizing the must haves in those packages are correct? Is it okay to change about halfway through the season is okay to change them up whenever you want however a lot of photographers that I work with just make change for change sake and it is coming tomorrow because it's more of ah it's more of a thin it's more a psychological reaction we have it's a fear it's is based in fear and self confidence and has to do with it when we get out of consultation they didn't book as we said wait must be our packages so we go back and change it must be the way the structure all a car we go back and change them and so what we have to do is understand that we can't make changes to our pricing out of fear and out of confidence we have to make them at a knowledge we have to make them out of foundation. Truce. Foundational truths when we know a must have we did, is wrong. And that's. When make a change, we don't make it because we're fearful that we might have not booked a wedding because of it.