The Code of the Extraordinary Mind
that we love you. Welcome to the show Mission. Hi, Chase. Firstly, I'm up in a member of great apply for many years. Right now, I started out as a creator, like most of your audience as an entrepreneur working from my bedroom, and then whatever was the closest Starbucks and in the vicinity. So I love your audience, bean part of people audience. And it's a real honor to be on the show. Oh, I'm so grateful. And I could say the same about mine value. Guys have been doing super cool stuff, and I wanna trace back the roots of starting, um, Mind Valley. But before we dio let's talk about current times because you are, um are we are rather on opposite sides of the planet. You're in Kuala Lumpur right now. Is that right? And, um well, going to give us a little bit of the flavor on the ground there, and ah, and for you personally, how How, um you've been managing your time in this in this strange world that we're living in now. So mind valley well, firstly, mind valleys an American company. So ...
we I I shuttle between the US and Kuala Lumpur. I'm Malaysian born, so I haven't we have a beautiful office over here, where all our graphic designers are filmmakers are based. Quote. Limbo is a hotbed for creativity. Some of the world's top design and on schools are located here, so I tend the shuttle back and forth. But what's happening here right now is that quotable. Malaysia is under one of the strictest lockdowns anywhere in the world. You're not even about toe walk your dog. So get this. I actually have to give my dog away to one of my employees who has a long because we're in an apartment here. We're only allowed to leave the medical supplies and for groceries. But the good thing about that is that we've really been able to flatten the curve, so there's no panic here. The hospitals are I'm not at overcapacity, but I also identify with America. Like in my heart, I'm American and it really is is a strange and difficult time. When I read the news of what's going on, especially in cities like New York, I started this company in New York, so it's really hard to see and read the news on a daily basis. Yeah. Incredible. And you went to school over here. Is that right? I see Michigan. I did. I did. I went to the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. Well, amazing to have the ability to sort of have a foot in both cultures, Um, and I'm sure it's a it's ah benefit in so many ways for my valley. I want to talk about that. Managing a remote team, for example, is a is an extension of what we're all experiencing right now. Um, but I do want to go like this. Let's pull in this New York thread for a little bit. So, um, the company was founded here. You went to school in in Michigan. But how did you How did you migrate from Michigan to New York before splitting time, if you will between, um between Malaysia and the east Coast of the U. S. So when I was a student at Michigan, there was this amazing summer program where rather than just goto, you know, a better what it is called alternative Spring break and I particle in New York for the first time in my life and volunteer at the boys and Girls Club at Madison Square Gardens. So this was a club for disadvantage. Boys and girls, young kids. And I got to volunteer and teach them up and teach them, you know, other skills. And I fell in love with the city that fell in love with New York. And so after I graduated, that became my dream destination for where I wanted to to live. Ended up moving to New York. I started working for a non profit there. And, you know, New York. It's my favorite city in the world. That is where I ended up starting mind. Bow Wow. Wow. Well, all right, then. I'm gonna put a pin in that I want to go way back. So Malaysian born and ah, I would. I'm dying to know. Is there an entrepreneurial spirit in your family? Are you the first in in Lyon to launch a company and become a best selling author? Is this part of your upbringing? Give us a little bit of a little bit of color of your childhood for those who are new to it and for myself, because this is the first time we have been on the phone and we've been in similar circles for years. Just it's a great treat to have you on the show, but I'm like this is genuine. We actually muffled there, stop the conversation before we have to have so much banter before we even go live. We're just like, Wait, let's just save it for riel real time. So give me the scoop. So I was born in an Indian immigrant family in Malaysia. Now, if you're born in an Indian immigrant family, you have three choices in life. You become after your fortune system like to become a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer or a family failure, right? So I decided that I need it to be an engineer. I went to the University of Michigan to stop the computer engineering, but I soon realized that I I just didn't resonate with my school work. You know what really fascinated me? Chase photographer? No way was my number one subject. So in every excuse I got, I would be in a photography studio making my prince. I fell in love with black and white photography. I would love to be in a lab playing with chemicals, creating my own prints. Now, I ended up getting a job at Microsoft. Now back in 1998 that was the dream drop. Microsoft back then was like Apple today, and I was one of those, like 1% of American engineers who made it to Microsoft. 11 weeks into Microsoft, I realized that my heart really was in the creative space. What I enjoy doing was performing arts. I was teaching swing dancing in Seattle. I was doing photography, but I just couldn't bring myself to code. So, like quit Microsoft, I moved to New York City. I got a job under the poverty line and I didn't tell my parents I and I would do crazy shit like I went to Bosnia after the war to act as a photographer and a photojournalist. I have my first big photography spread my first big exhibition, Black and white photography called 24 hours in Sarajevo post war photography. So I was just so into this space. But the problem is, I couldn't make money. Yeah, I just couldn't figure out how to make money. I live below the poverty line, and then one day Silicon Valley became a hot spot, and I decided all right. Let me try and moving to Silicon Valley. Now, I I I didn't enjoy programming, but I loved building products because building products was a creative expression off your stubble. So I came up with an idea for a new type of community software, right? It was a new type of community software, and I moved to Silicon Valley. Bara 30 grand from my dad with the intention of building this product. It was actually this was before blondes took off. It was the former logging its popular. So this was early two thousands like Gary. Something like 2000. 2001. It wasn't it wasn't it was a virtual diary. So So what happened was my timing sucked. Within months of me moving there, the dot com bubble burst. I lost everything. And the next thing you know, I was renting accounts from a Berklee college student because I couldn't even afford an apartment. So I was sending a resume to every job. I could get a graceless. And I get this call from a guy who had volunteered at the same nonprofit I used to work for and he says, Look, everyone who works at this non profit. It was a non profit dedicated to world peace. You know, you've got a good soul, I'll hire you. But the only job I have in my company is sale. So you need to pick up the phone and sell technology to lawyers. So he I was justice, creative person, this person who loves creating. And now I'm in this boring job, picking up the phone, interrupting Malia's in the middle of their work day. And and you know what happens when you interrupt a lawyer in the middle of this work day? You will hear more fuck off kids than who dead when agin you will hear in a given day. So one day after I think it was 12. Or the 13 lawyer told me the back off for interrupting his work day. I sank into a depression. I had no money. My car was a wreck because I had I couldn't fix the brakes. I crashed into another car and I didn't have insurance. Um, and my life was just a mess, and I knew that this couldn't continue. So I got on Google and I think I type I can't remember what I typed it was something like, Why does life sucks so bad? Or Google? Please help me. Back then, Google was new. We thought it was like some natural engine. And I found a class of meditation. I took that class, and now the interesting thing about this classes it was about tapping into intuition to increase your your creativity and your level of inspiration. And it didn't actually publicly say this, but it was also about developing in shooting ability what we sometimes refer to as psychic potential. So I go back to my sales drug now, back then, we would go to the San Francisco Public Library, check out the Yellow Pages, and I have to call every lawyer from A to Z in San Antonio, Texas. But I learned how to go into the space of just thinking within right to move my hands down the Yellow pages and know intuitively who to call. Okay, Now I'm gonna ask that your audience just has an open mind here, so I can't explain it, Chase. But overnight I doubled my closing rate. I was making 2.5 grand a month, right? That's one. That's what That's what you made may be closing three sales a month. 2.5 grand is barely enough to survive in San Francisco for the night. I double my closing rate and I was making five grand a month, and my sales continued doubling and doubling and doubling and doubling in four months. I got promoted three times with no experience in sales, they mainly director of sales. They sent me to New York to stop their New York office. I continued with this company for 18 months, but then again, my intuition said, I have to do something more with my life and I remember reading a quote by Nelson Mandela and you'll resonate with this. Mandela said, If you want to change the world, change education, so you started created light, and I thought, I want to start away to get more people to meditate. So I became a meditation instructor. I became a Web designer. I taught myself how to build a website. I taught myself how to teach classes, and I started my meditation practice, and that was the birth of mine value. Did you quit your job before training? Or did you? Was there a transition when you were lying to your boss and your sales numbers were going down because that is the magic for so many people, right? They either don't have the luxury of turning off this source of income. And so they need to have a road map, weapons of sorts to to be able to transition from one or another. Or, you know, I don't know what your case is. Some people are just like, OK, great. I don't have any kids or dependence on my costs are low, so I can afford to just go for it. What was your situation? While? So, in my case, I figured out what I call when I advise people who want to shift from a day drop to becoming a creative. I tell them you got to know your ML I your minimal livable income. So back then I was living in New York. I was married to my wife. She was my then wife. She's European and she didn't have a green card. So we were basically one household. Only I could legally work because I had a J one visa right, which authorized me to work. Now I figured out I was earning maybe around 8000 month. I figured out that between me and Christina, we needed four grand to survive in New York. So I started this little business on the side to sell meditation CDs. And I remember the first month I lost 300 bucks. The second month I lost 500. The third month I lost 800. The fourth month I was making full bucks a day in profit. Now I celebrated this four bucks a day. You know, that was a venti Starbucks. Maybe you know it in month by I'm making $5.50 a day. Now get this. That's a Wendy Starbucks with whipped cream and hazelnut flavoring. And so that was a big fucking deal to me. I remember bragging to my friends. I have this side hustle. I have the side gate. It's getting me through the Starbucks everyday. Now I continue celebrating that building that up in my in my nights and weekends, and it went up to $ in $8.10 dollars a day. And at the end of one year, it hit $4000 a month. That was what I was making now, As soon as it hit my Emma Lima minimal livable income, I went to my boss and I quit. I quit my job, right. And and, um, I quit my drop. But the problem was I was an immigrant. When I quit my job, I also had to give up my US visa and I couldn't figure out how to stay in America. That's how I ended up back in Malaysia. Uh, all right, so that is I love the, um the minimum income. As a concept, I preach the same thing. And as a vehicle, I say, What can you do where you actually have a chance to work your side, hustle around a flexible schedule? That's why sales jobs or restaurant jobs or bartending or some of the more flexible jobs they provide a little bit of ah ah, an opportunity where some other, you know, 40 hour week jobs weren't. I think it's fantastic and interesting that we prescribed the same thing. But I'm really enamored with your willingness, and this is what I want to poke at. Next is your willingness to give up your status as a with your visa in order to go on your own because for some, they would keep that. And so tell me what the state of mind was that I have been instructed to say. I would love to say that I was brave and I was bold, and I was willing to quit my job and give up my visa. But the truth is a little bit darker, so so it get own mind me sharing the truth, Let me just, you know, but people react to it differently, but allow me to be open. So Donald Trump is, you know, has spoken about a Muslim watch list. In 2016 he tried to launch a Muslim watch list, and everyone from the founders of Twitter to the founders of Google marched on the streets, and the most of watch list was disbanded. But the reality of the situation is the Muslim watch lists was instituted in 2003. After September 11 I don't blame anyone. America had been attacked, the watch list was instituted, and 72,000 men between the ages of 18 to 45 were born in Muslim countries, where added to that watch lists, I'm not a Muslim, don't know do I even think my religion should factor in? But I was born in Malaysia, which is a country with a 50% Muslim population. I was added to that watch list, and all of a sudden I have to report to the government every four weeks for fingerprinted, for them to take my mug shop and to go through an interview. I could not board a plane without a two hour interview. I could not get off the plane without a two hour interview. I was not allowed to use certain airports. I was suddenly living my life like I was in parole. I loved America. My then wife and I. We wanted our first child to be born in America. I was ready to live here and make this my country. And I love the country. And the funny thing is, I was a Fox news watching George Bush loving right wing American immigrant. All of a sudden, I was added to a Muslim watch list and the illusion broke and I realized that you know, I couldn't live in America. I couldn't live like I wasn't parole. And that's why even though Mind Valley is an American company. We still are. I have to relocate to Malaysia because I could not live in America. You couldn't operate clearly. That's Yeah, That's my God. Hurtful. Now, this completely changed my political views. Like Like, I completely changed my political views. Like I was hooked on Fox News. All of a sudden, I'm like, it was so freakin confusing. Okay, um and so my entire world shipped it. It was the most painful time of my life. And I had to rebuild my company, rebuild my life from Malaysia, a country I really had lived in for almost a decade. No. And okay, let's you've made this decision up for obvious reasons. It is a light bulb that's going off. You've changed politically. Your orientation is awake. Um, relative to how you identified before then. And you're like, All right now I'm going back to Malaysia. And while the company Mind Valley was started in New York, you now have to, like, operate this thing. So presumably you had a co founder or some connection to the US And what was that first chapter of mine? Valley? Like as you were. You're living in a complete, different world. That you haven't even been a part of for a decade. So So it was really It was really funny, right? So Michael founder was a German immigrant. Um, now he he had just graduated from Stanford and he got a job in eBay. So he worked at eBay and then my then wife, Christina. She was also part off the co founding team. So it was three of us, me and Christina, one Malaysia and and Mike might. The German dude was in had graduated stamp, but And he had just caught in a drop in e big. He was working evenings on Mine Valley, which were mornings in Malaysia. Now, what was really funny is we would use this tool called Skype to communicate. Scott had just being released. Now Mike fell in love with Skype, and he went to Meg Whitman of eBay. And he's like Meg, I think eBay needs to become a community company. I think we need to acquire Skype. And this happened because me and him were using Skype to run the business across to different geographic locations, much like we're talking right now. Now, here's the crazy thing. He makes such a great pitch for Skype. He flies to London with Meg Whitman. They acquire Skype for something like 33 plus 1,000,000,000. Skype becomes part of eBay. Might get awarded most valuable employee at eBay, but the stock options they give him a minimal. He gets pissed off. He's like, Screw eBay. I wasn't really appreciated after, you know, leading them to acquire Skype. He quits, eBay moves to Malaysia, and now my entire team is in Malaysia. It's kind of funny. Our founding story led to the acquisition of Skype. Now the story gets better. My wife might, my dent might. My, my, my partner, that is Estonian. My Children are born in Estonia, Estonia's the country where Skype was created. The so all of this billions of dollars infuse Estonia all of the sky programs that become really rich, and they start funding other start ups. And now Estonia is the country with the highest number off entrepreneurs. Tallinn, the capital, is the city with the highest number of entrepreneurs per capita. So it's easy how all of this gets connected. Now, the moral of the story there is this sometimes shit will happen in your life. In my case, I was kicked out of the U. S. Will not really kick up without added to this horrible watch lists there. But I realized that it led to so many beautiful things. It led to the situation with Skype. It led to Estonia, which is my other home, getting such an infusion off startup capital now and then. When I moved to Malaysia, what happened was I didn't realize it then, but Malaysia was a hotbed for creativity. Some of the best universities for graphic designers and artists are right here, and so mind Ali was able to tap into this talent, and we were a digital marketing company and Internet marketing company. But we rapidly became known for a beautiful aesthetics and design and photography, and that gathers an edge over the competition. So several years later, when YouTube had come out and all of these other publishing companies that was selling content were being invests aerated because off the new Internet sites coming out, we could thrive and survive and continue groping and reporting and growth. Everything worked out. Now in my book, the court, the extraordinary mind I talk about a concept called the Beautiful Destruction and I think it's very relevant to what's happening right now. I believe that we are souls having a human experience, and I believe that every now and then our soul will guide us into a trial by fire. I call this the beautiful destruction. It's when the world that we know has to collapse around us for a new version of ourselves to emerge. It's the metaphor off the Phoenix emerging out of the fire. My first beautiful destruction was in 2003 when I have to leave the United States. My second beautiful destruction happened in 2008 when I almost lost the entire company during the recession. I'm going through my third beautiful destruction right now as a lot of divisions of our company, because we are big and events have been completely wiped out because Uncle Team and I wanted to share that message there because I think that as painful as this time could be, and I empathize with everyone who's going through the stress, the fear, the anxiety, I wonder if this is a form off global, beautiful construction, and that's something truly elegant, a new way of operating for a species, a new way of us expressing ourselves is going to emerge from this chaos via in right now. I think we have no choice but to believe that. And you know, also it's fair. And we as humans are capable of both recognizing and holding in one hand or one piece of our heart and our soul. The fact that there's a tremendous amount of suffering happening right now, both with death and dying with sickness. But of course, a lot of businesses and our, you know, many of our peers as we were talking about their businesses, their eviscerated so many of the creatures who have built the business on a shoestring, you know, they're the first and hardest hit, and all those things can be true. And something good can come of this. What amounts to a complete reworking of, well, so many things one culture like the fact that we're ah, connected social species. And now I was just went for a walk where we are in Washington state, we have, um we are governor got on the, um, social distancing very, very quickly. And while we are not locked in her home, were permitted to go for a walk. It's fascinating to watch people on, and I live in Seattle. You're familiar? Seattle. You've been here and worked at Microsoft and other places. It's it's gorgeous, but and it's very, you know, I'm just 11 exit north of the downtown. So it's a little, um, urban suburban. But people are crossing the street so that we don't see one another, and that is totally antithetical to our nature as human beings. We're social animals. So, you know, even at the most fundamental level, our d n a level were being challenged. And I'm fascinated to see what good will come out of this. And how long will we reckon back to this time? Will it be a lifetime? What you know is this the 2008 Is that 9 11? Is that all those things combined and more because it's a global, um, affectation? I don't know. I'm just curious of what? Your what? Your senses of how we will look back on this time. And if we can't clearly as you said we can. Something beautiful is coming of this destruction. But what your perception of how we'll look back on this time. Well, I think I think they're two really remarkable things, But you're going to happen now. The first is I was just on my on my podcast, interviewing Stephen Cotler. Right? So Stephen Kotler is a dear friend. Yeah, and dear friend loves even boats. Yeah, abundance, Bold. The future is faster than you think. And I said, as a future is, what do you think is gonna happen now, he said, one of the most of the things that's exciting him most is that never before have so many scientists so many researchers collaborated to salt. One single thing, right? So many entrepreneurs come together to solve one single thing. It's amazing to see scientists all around the world trying to find a vaccine as off as of last week. They are 40 potential vaccines under clinical trial. As of today, Jack Dorsey announced that he's getting a $1,000,000,000 from his equity in square to fund research. To help end this pandemic, Bill Gates is building seven factories. Elon Musk is donating tools for respirators to hospitals around the world. All of these are all entrepreneurs at some level, are doing everything they can in collaboration to solve one problem. This idea that we in competition with one another has been eviscerated. But it's not only that, it's not only that, not only is there cotton assist he's never seen scientists and researchers collaborate this well across the world, that's the first thing this will become a habit. This habit will not go away. Once you move towards greater and greater collaboration, it's hard to go back to your old way of thinking because you see how much faster you can move. You see how much more lean you can be. You see that other people are the scientists and other prep that they were so much good we can do when we are working together. This, I believe, is going to create an acceleration in exponential technologies, and it's gonna ship the world. You're going to see an acceleration in technology's across the planet, but that's just the first thing. The second thing is this. I have been working on a secret project chase. Um, in that project is to create a flag for the human species. Now we're not ready for that yet, because today we still identify ourselves as Americans formulations as Britain's or Somalians or Pakistanis or Indians. But that day is coming to an end. When I was young, I used to watch the show called Star Trek, and I always was curious as to how in Gene Roddenberry he's the creative stop wrecking his vision. It's one planet there is. No, it's the Earth Federation. It's one planet. People don't wear their national flag on their shoulder. They were the earth flak, and I believe that as a species we have to move to what that level of South identity. We have to start seeing ourselves as a singular, connected species. We can get sick together, but we can also heal together and on. Lee, when we stop thinking that way, can we truly solve some of the biggest problems facing humanity right now, like climate change, like cold in 19 like deforestation, like how our oceans are literally dying. But to do that, all of these problems require mass collaboration. Yet most human beings I'm not at that level yet because national governments brainwashes. They make us believe that our biggest threats of Mexicans who are sneaking across the border they make us believe that our biggest threats are Muslims. The makers believe that our biggest threats are trade wars with other countries. Know the biggest track so that the air is getting fiddled with too much carbon dioxide. The oceans are literally dying, our soil is being depleted, and diseases and pandemics like Colbert, 19 will kill a lot of people. Now, when you start understanding the lies that are imposed upon us by our leaders, right to keep us boxed in to keep us separated, you start awakening, and when you awaken, you will never again vote for any leader, any politician who was anything but unity driven Greta Thornburg when people. But she came on The Daily Show and she was asked, What's the number one thing people could do? She's very polite about it. She's both wisely. I believe that what we're going to see what we come out of this is human beings ready for collaboration across culture, religion, nationality. We're gonna move towards an earth species. 10 years from now, we will have an a black and what will happen This what you're seeing right now with Brexit with Trump is the last dying gasp of nationalism and separation. We can't continue down this path. This is the second big awakening that's gonna happen in our planet right now. Now it's a species we already moving towards that. There was a famous study that showed that in the 19 fifties, only 4% of Americans believe that it was okay for a black and a white person to marry. 96% of Americans believed that it was wrong. Sammy Davis Jr was a supposed to perform at one of JFK's parties. He was uninvited because he, as a black man, dared to marry a white woman. By 1991 the hordes had flipped. 51% of Americans believed that it was now okay for a black person and a white person to marry. We moved from seeing separation to going like, What the fuck? How is this even a thing today? If you pull the average American, maybe 4% would think that it's wrong for two races to marry. 96% would say that it's right in a span off 80 years, 70 years. Actually, we went from 4% saying it was wrong. So 4% saying it was right to 4% saying it was wrong. That's a huge tidal wave. But this is how fast we're moving towards becoming a unified species. This just got accelerated. It just got massively accelerated. The Republican Party will probably never win an election again unless they stop the separatist bullshit. And I'm not saying this as an American. I'm saying this as an observer of what's happening in your country. Brexit would never have happened. In this time we will see a temporary closing off borders, but people understand that that is toe. That's to create better isolation, like what we're doing in our homes right now. But the only way we can beat this is for scientists across the world to collaborate. And once that happens and we see that it's OK for people across the world to unify across petty little boundaries, there is no going back. I love Steven collar, his big thinking, and I love this story that you just shared, um, in your conversation from with him. And I know you've got a lot of your own beliefs in there, having researched a lot of the way, think and talk and I couldn't agree more. I I believe that we are, um, we've seen this in other industries. You recognize that in, um, in race relations. And while there still is work to be done on all of these especially like I was just Martin Luther King Junior's birthday yesterday, I believe it the day before. Um, so his thoughts are very timely impression. Right now, um, we see this acceleration, and we've seen it in, um, the human genome being solved. For example, they said we're going to solve the human genome in 10 years. One year in, they were 1% complete, and everyone started throwing in the towel two years in. I think they were two or 3% complete three years in in the short story too long. Here is is it exponentially accelerates. And you actually don't get the benefit of solving for what technologies? They're going to be around in 10 years. And if you apply that same logic to the transition of, um, our planet as divisive to towards something that is unified and I like the idea of the earth flag, I think that's brilliant. Um, you can see, um, a golden era emerging on the backside of something right now that we you know, we almost can't conceive of it because there's so much noise in the system right now. Um, I loved your love. Your story. I think it's so, um so appropriate and so well, time then, especially in a moment where you know, if you watch the news, you believe that this is scary and violent. And the reality is if you read the book Factual nous, which is one of Bill Gates's top reads from last year or, ah, if you study the data carefully, it's the safest time it's ever been. There are so many things that were lead to believe, Um, about violence that are you know, um, extraordinarily, um infinitely the other side of the spectrum that we we don't believe that now, reporting on violent crime as an example up 10,000% violent crime, down 50% over the course of the last decade. But you wouldn't believe that. And I love your application of the human spirit and of the unity, um, as, ah, downstream effect of what we're experiencing right now. It's just beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. Um, I was curious. Now, um, I'm aware that you've got a new book coming out and coming out in June. Um, the title is extraordinary, the Buddha and the Badass, and it seems to me that there's a little bit of that in the story that you just shared. There's a little bit of Buddha and a little bit about house. Now. I don't know. That's that's not the necessary the framework for the book. But give us a little bit of color because I'm sensing this sort of. There's a fierceness about the way that you approach things and approach life. If you look at the founding story of mine Mallonee, for example, or the story that you just shared, um, give us a look into the Buddha and the badass, which is coming out well, yes, you're right. It's a It's a fierceness. It's in fact, my program with Stephen Kotler is called a habit off ferocity. That's that's the program that we created with Stephen Cobbler. Fierceness can come from passion. It can come from a desire to change the world. Dave Logan calls it righteous anger. It is this thing where you see situations, what you feel unjust situations where you feel you know this can't go on any longer, and you dedicate your life to fix it in that situation. I spoke earlier about the beautiful destruction. Right? And one of the things that the beautiful destruction helps, you see, is what in the world you convey educate your mind to fix it. Why do I want an earth flag? Because I was the victim of what I felt was a very unfair immigration policy. And I had to leave the country I loved, and I And by the way, I got off the Muslim watch list in 2008 when President Obama ruled it unconstitutional. Right? And the whole thing was scrapped. Um, but that became part of my passion. Unity. I want to bring unity to the world in the midst, off the pain, back pain off suffering. You can leverage that to find what your mission could be. What your identity could be you're suffering can often be the breadcrumbs towards your life. Purpose in your life mission. Now the Buddha and a bad ass explores themes like that the good and the bad asses. Ultimately, a book for entrepreneur spoke created for people who want to do the best at their work. But for the longest time, we're told that work is about the physical. It's about your knowledge. What if there's a soul aspect to it? What if we have these abilities within us, which we can address the ability off being able to be aligned without sole purpose, the ability or being able to tap into intuition, the ability of going within to calm ourselves down to control our minds. Ability to visualize outcomes that is represented by the Buddha, the desire to create the fix toe build, to build businesses, to make artwork that is the badass that is the direct disruptor this book is about? Unifying Boat holds its about unifying the internal aspect of our core wick, the badass aspect of our court. It bridges to different traditions, right, the tradition of introspection, which you see very common in maybe many Eastern cultures and the tradition off disruption, which is a very Silicon Valley West Coast American thing to disrupt, to create two, to build a new so the good and the bad. US explores tools to merge book together, for example, it shows you there's a chapter called How to Be Unfussy With the Boat and To Be Unfair, Equitable Means to be so into with who you really are, that you don't have to make apologies for your art for your writing, for how you are willing to go out there and challenge conventional ways of living. There's a chapter on finding your so pretty just like we all have a fingerprint. We all have a soul print. I believe we are souls having a human experience, and our souls need to express themselves in a certain way. Now, when you can identify what your soul print is, you're more likely to find the right career and to find the right personal brand and to live that. And the funny thing is Sore Prince come from often come from suffering. I found my soul print as a fighter for unity because of the suffering I went through on that watch lists and many other people find their soldier. It's true going through suffering, you know, I have a friend who was the victim of childhood abuse. She started a company in the core value of that company, compassion and kindness that it's got brand because she wants to ensure that what she went through, other people don't have to go through that. So the book talks about merging both aspects to become a truly remarkable entrepreneur and creator. It has nine chapters. You can read them in any order you want. Each chapter is like a singular, a singular essay on a particular idea with applications. So that's how I wrote this. And I wrote this because I'm fascinated by operating a business and acting as an entrepreneur and creator from not just a physical world but the inner world. And I wanted to drink all the modalities I could find. Across 50 years of running a company focused on the mind and spirit and meditation, I wanted to bring all of that together with more than day entrepreneurship, n b A programs and being a creator. I love the synergy there, and I also Harkin our mutual friends. Stephen Cotler, right? There's an aspect of floated that there's an aspect of alignment. The there's an aspect of oneness, of calm and quiet. That intuition is a huge factor has been a huge factor in my life, and clearly you've talked about it. Ah, bunch. And what point did you feel like your intuition was that you suddenly recognized your intuition was there a moment? Um, you know, you talked about being in New York where you recognize that you didn't wanna, um, do Or actually it was maybe it was in Seattle. And you recognize you didn't want Teoh work at Microsoft anymore? Was there one point or was it a series of small points? I'm curious about you recognising your own intuition. Well, it happened because I took a program called the Silva Method. It's a really popular program. It's an American meditation program that was started in the seventies in Laredo, Texas. It's literally text next Medicaid Tex Mex explication of meditation. It was what started. Yeah, but it's brilliant. So of that. The founder, Jose Silva. He died. He died in 1999 but he published tons of books on research on the human mind and accessing altered states. Stephen Coppola, our mutual friend, you know, he's written a book called Stealing Fire About Altered States So but Jose Cell, by in the seventies and eighties developed a protocol toe access alfa and beta levels of brainwave frequency. He even developed a protocol to access delta level frequency and then apply that to shifting the world now what happened was the program that allowed me to run my finger down a phone book and know exactly who to call. What's the Silva method? So after I quit my job, I approached the self. I met that the founder, Jose Silva, had died. The company wasn't a bit of a disarray, and I got the rights to produce their meditation CDs. That was how I started nine Valley now. Recently, they asked me to be the new face of the Silva method, so I just finished recording the new 2020 version of their program. Their problem that changed my life 20 years ago. That's coming out soon. It's called a Silver Ultra Mind system, and that's how I learned how to tap into my kitchen. It's a process off guided hypnotherapy and meditation to get you to access altered states, primarily al find Taylor levels of nine until leverage your your Your levels of being within these states did then create incredible creative outlook. Fascinating, fascinating. I want Teoh. Um, I've been asking all of my questions, but I want to also take a moment. Recognize that we are recording this live. It's not called Chase Service live on accident. It was founded as a live show more than 10 years ago and, ah, about I don't know and say three months ago now we made it live again. The process of recording it and so you can really watch it now, in real time we were making and of course, we publish a polished version downstream. But what I love is recognizing some of the, um, community who are timing in. We've got Denmark, we've got the Philippines, we've got Texas. We've got people from all walks of life. We've got some Scandinavia in the house and there's a couple of questions that I want toe ask and respect of the community who are listening. And, uh, Ash Jensen asked a handful. I want to narrow down to one. What do you see? Thriving in the future based on our current universal situation. If you could narrow down because you've talked about a lot of things, is there Is there a word or can you put something in the palm of our hands That would be an explication of all of these things are a simplification of them into one thing. Absolutely. What we're going to see arising in the future exponential technologies that are going to change the way we live writing. For example, I was talking to Ray Kurzweil, the D P. Of engineering off Google, and I asked a simple question. Not that all of you have seen Iron Man, right? The model movies Avengers and Tony Stock has his A I called jobless. He can act jobs anything, and job is answers. I asked Rikers Well, how soon before all of us have job ist in our self boats? And he said, You know, it's gonna happen by 2029 now 2029. It is nine years away, right? But nine years from now, all of us will have our own personal artificial intelligence in our cell phone. Now, when that happens, we effectively have a backup brain, but not just a back up. We have a backup bring that is more intelligent than any human being who's ever lived. Imagine having Einstein having, um, zero. Rosa. Well, having Abraham Lincoln having all of the smartest people in the world like just behind you at any given point, ready to help you make decisions, all of us will have that by 2029. Now, what happens when we have access to all off that knowledge at that speed while the world stocks operating through an exponential shift? If you think technology is progressing fast right now, wait till what's wait till you see what's gonna happen that but there will also be a disruption. Because of this many fields, many careers that rely on certain types of knowledge are going to get disrupted. AI is gonna replace lawyers AI is gonna replace, um um, copywriters. So many different fields are gonna be replaced by a I. Now, what does that leave us to do? Well, I think the one thing I cannot yet replace is human creativity and human intuition. Okay, I can produce. I've seen some of it, but it's sucky up. Yeah, terrible. Yeah. And what and where I would advise people to hone their skills for this future of AI is to learn how to bring creativity into whatever they do. Whether you're a musician, whether you're an artist, whether you're a photographer, whether you're a painter, horn your creative abilities and you don't have to do it solo, you can do it using algorithms using AI, for example. I'm a copywriter. I love writing. I use an AI based tool called Graham Early to write faster A. I becomes a compliment to what I do, so that's the first thing. But the second thing is home. Yours, your own personal growth, the knowledge that you learn from schools it's gonna become increasingly less important. The knowledge that is gonna matter is knowledge on health and fitness, on mindset, on human skills, on intuition, on accessing alter traits, the knowledge that you get from creative life that you get from mine Valley. Those are gonna become the new wealth, the most successful people in the world. It's not gonna be your MBA or the knowledge you got from an Ivy League university. It's gonna be the knowledge of personal growth and awareness. Those are two things which I I think people should really focus up. That is fantastic advice, and not because that you and I will both be beneficiaries of that. But because the world is already awakening to this, and I think other fascinating and 20 was either 2018 or 2019 at the world economic form. Jack Ma, founder and CEO of former CEO Rather of Ali Baba, um, one of the richest men in the world and arguably one of the most data centric. And ai focused individuals. Well, he was asked the question like, Oh, so your kids are, ah, learning to code, right? And he was like my kids Oh, no, no, no, no. You must have it wrong because computers already teaching other computers to code. So my kids art, physical health and wellness, spirituality, intuition, connection. You know, he basically gave all listed all of these. What would be You could articulate a soft skills in sort of normal everyday parlance, and it's really exactly what you just described. And so you know, whether you're recognizing and listening to you vision or reading your books or the Buddha and the battles were studying at Mine Valley or Creativelive, the people hard, the brightest in the most forward thinking people in our culture, one of which I'll just use again. Jack Ma. You can point to the the um so many folks who are in plant medicine or in um ah, gosh, future forward physics or the Richard Branson's The Entrepreneurs. There's a there's a universal sort of understanding that I feel like is starting to shape in a way that we haven't seen in, you know ever before, towards exactly what you're saying. Now let's play Devil's Advocate for a second. Let's try and throw rocks at our very own theory that were sort of cheerleading here. And what would the naysayers say? Because somewhere we just listed a bunch of corners of the globe better tuning into our broadcast right now. Somewhere someone's throwing rocks at our our precious little idea here. What are what are the haters saying? And what would you say back to them? Well, you know, when I first started speaking about intuition, I wasn't the Dave Asprey podcast and Dave Asprey, of course, famous bio hacker. I don't know if you've ever had him on this show, but it's a pretty big podcast. Yeah, bulletproof. He also bulletproof coffee. Bulletproof executive. Yeah, he's been incredible, of course. And the funny thing is, people went to my book from his podcast on Amazon and get me, like one star reviews for the court of the extraordinary line because how dare I say that all of us have intuition, right that we can tap into these DC's life forces. And the funny thing is, David, I go to meditation classes together. Dave and I go to intuition training classes together during like using a neuro training. He doesn't talk about it. Back then, he didn't talk about it on his podcast cause he didn't want to alienate his audience. But it's got in so scientific, so scientific, I go into, um so I used So anyway, yeah, I know it's a go there. I can tell you want to go there? Let's go there you use. So I'm saying that They say You say that this is bullshit. This is rubbish. But again, if you look at what people like Dave Asprey are doing, he's actually applying euro training toe access, data levels of mine to tap into intuitive ability. Stephen Cotler wrote the book, Stealing Fire, talking about altered states and how it's now a trillion dollar economy. When I first started teaching meditation in 2003 and my meditation the Silver, but that was about accessing altered states, I couldn't tell my friends from Michigan about it because they thought I have fallen, pray to some bullshit cult like scam talking about meditation and intuition. It wasn't cool them, but right now it's actually going through an exponential curve in terms of research. There's a new book that just came out called Alter Traits by Daniel Goldman. In the introduction for the book, he shows a curve off scientific studies on meditation, and it's going like this. It's exponential. There were a tiny number of scientific studies of meditation in 2003 that's gone up by about 100 fold right now. So if people don't believe in this, I don't blame them. They could be a 2015 or 2016 and looking at the knowledge, then it's been four years. It's increase. It's increased by a massive multiple right now, 44% last year. Actually, 40% 44% of the Fortune 100 have meditation classes for their employees. Now the next big shifts you're going to see are exactly what I'm talking about. Companies within five years are gonna be teaching employees how to tap into intuition and altered states. This is already happening. There's a huge movement towards plant medicine. I just didn't I Of what? Scott Trip. I got a new algorithm for my app during an Iowa Scott trip. I actually have programmers testing and deploying that algorithm right now. It came during an Iowa Scott trip. Another, another entrepreneur I spoke to, said any Silicon Valley CEO who is not using plant medicine is at a competitive disadvantage. And what is plant medicine doing? It's helping you tap into these altered states. More, more people are doing it. Few people speak about it because it's still judged wrongly in many parts of the world. So that's the 1st 1 But the second thing that you're going to be happening is a concept called bending reality. Within 10 years, CEOs at the top performance in the world are going to be using the online walk the fabric off reality to increase the probability off certain outcomes happening. That does not surprise me at all, I guess were cut from the same cloth, and we travel in similar circles. But I love that you are, um, so passionately sharing this with the global audience that's tuned in with us right now. Um, I want to be mindful of our time, Um and so I just have a couple of closing questions. First, what is the best place for people to, um, to test their intuition? I'm I really to me. This is the number one thing that we've been pushing on in our conversation, and it's it's what I hope people leave with is this idea of the power of intuition you've spoken so eloquently about it. I'm asking you to give people, um, a place in their life to look for it and an opportunity to explore it a little more. What would you recommend? Well, the first thing is I would recommend meditation that there two types of meditation I do not recommend pure passive meditation breathing, calming yourself down. It's great. It's good. If you're not doing it, you can stop there. But if you want to get to the next level where you're applying meditation for intuition and what I call bending reality, I want you to check out the six space Meditation. This is a meditation protocol that I invented, and I made it completely. Three. You can search for it, the apse on it, the YouTube videos on it. There's a free program on it at mine valley dot com forward slash learn dash meditation. And as I made it free, it got picked up by professional athletes. So professional athletes around the world, I'm now publicly talking about it beyond Con dress you when she beat Serena Williams at the U. S. Open and they asked her like she was 19 years old in September last year, she beat Serena Williams. They asked, What are you doing? And she held up my book, The Court of the Extraordinary Mind, which is the book in which I introduced a six face meditation to the world and what she was doing this. For three years between 2016 and 2019 she was visualizing beating Serena Williams. Now at the same time, Miguel, the R and B star behind behind you know, remember the beginning that the songs remember to forget and the music from the Pixar film Cocoa he spoke about in Billboard magazine. How he uses the six days meditation before his concerts with his entire team now made it completely free. It's being used by a lot of celebrities. Flock stars people at the top of performance because they find that when they do it, they're performing better. But what's really happening is the ability to tap into flow states they believe the tap into intuitive impulse accelerates. This manifest s being more intelligent, having better ideas, being more creativity. But the other thing that's happening is they start seeing synchronicity ease in their lives. Coincidences, the right people showing up projects going to moving faster and at ease. That's what happens when you practice the six face meditation. I won't say anymore. Just Google it. It's completely free. I love it. I love it. I believe deeply in, um in a lot of the flow states. I think there's a number of ways to access thumb. I think I'll check out your, um, six phase meditation, and it's just a great to know that it's at people's fingertips, whether through meditation and or synchronicity ease and just starting to look for them. Um, it is quite powerful to know that it is just how close it is and proximity to wherever you are right now. And I like to say the distance between where you are and where you want to be is probably closer than you think. Um, now the last question I have is much less grandiose. We finished that we focused on the intuition part, which that that was really, really important. And I want to say thank you so much. I want to recognize you and the work you put into my valley congratulate you. And I'm also high five years. Someone who's in the same industry is, um, as I am around trying to help people tap into their true potential, um so unacknowledged and say thanks so much. But importantly, like, what's the best place for people Teoh discover more about? You know, we've got the Buddha and the badass coming out in June. Um, we may try and drop this the finished podcast time with that book. So, um, I hope youll get me an advanced copy, but also is it mine valley is what was the best place to find you on the internet and give us some coordinates. If you would definitely check out Mine Valley. But I recommend you go to mind valley dot com forward slash learn, dash meditation and and get the six space program three my book to boot on the bad assets coming out in June. But if you're interested in my work, I wrote my first book The Code of the Extraordinary Mind. It hit number one on Amazon, a like number one book in the world in 2017 for around five days. You can find that on Amazon, the code of the extraordinary mind, and that is sort of a set of 10 principles to shift the way you think towards what I believe is a method off thinking and approaching life that fully lets you live life from the point of authenticity and to fully express your creativity. Love it. Thank you so much for being on the show for incense performing live for us as we're tuned in. Um, here at creativelive dot com slash tv. We're going into the homes and kitchen counters and, you know, I see the couch behind you. The bookshelf. It just really It's been really fun to step into the private lives if you will have so many of, um in our community and so thank you for walking us into your personal space. Um, and for those of you who are tuned in to create a lot of that com slash tv, get more performances. We get to go into the homes in the minds and the hearts and the kitchen counters, if you will of entrepreneurs every single day, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We're broadcasting at that channel. Um and of course, please stay tuned for more presents a chase Jarvis live and be sure and follow the coordinates. The vision just gave you for tracking down more of his work at Mine Valley and on the Internet elsewhere. Thank you. Fishing for joining us. And Ah, it's been a great treat. Too heavy on this show. We will have you back when the time is right. And I can't wait to help the world discover your book and all that you've done. Thank you so much for being on the show, but thank you. Chase was great.