Delicious Food Doesn't Have to be Complicated with Julia Turshen
Mm hmm. Mhm. We love you. Hello, Internet. And welcome to another episode of the Chase Drivers Live show here on Creative Live. Hopefully you know the show by now. This is where I sit down with the world's top creators, entrepreneurs and thought leaders. And I do everything I can to unpack their brains with the goal of helping you out of your dreams and career hobby. And in life, I am over the moon with our guest today before I get to her. Just a little bit of housekeeping. I want to welcome you from whatever platform you're viewing on whether that's Facebook instagram YouTube, live stream to a bunch of them, uh, and let you know that if you are typing in the comments, I can see those comments and questions, and I will do everything I can to elevate them to our guests so that this can be an interactive, interactive experience for you all. And I also will put a little Astra's in there, which is the place where I see those questions. First is at creativelive dot com slash t V. So if you'...
re watching out a bunch of different platforms and you want to go there to make sure your question gets seen first. That's the way to do it. Um, but I know you're not here for my housekeeping. Uh, you're here for our guest today. Julia Torshin. Amazing woman. She is a best selling cookbook author of a bunch of books, Small victories, which was named If I'm not mistaken, I think the best Cookbook Cook Book of the Year, Something from The New York Times and NPR also feed the Resistance Eaters. Book of the Year 2017 now and again, another best selling cookbook, one of the best by 2018 named by Amazon and her latest Simply Julia, which I have right here, um, is a barnstormer. Today is the launcher. Yesterday, Rather was the launch. And so it gives me great pleasure to welcome Juliette, please tap on your desk, raised the roof and get your fingers ready to type some questions as we have Julia on the show. Julia, welcome. And thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to talk to you about just all the creativity that goes into this work and I have no idea what day it is. I'm also realizing we're matching, which was not planned. Well, we have people tuning in from all over the world We're already getting. I've got an Italy. Uh, this person is a They're interested. They're here for the food. Um, we've got a New Jersey in New York, uh, Southern California. Be more specific. Give me a city. Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm looking for international Dublin, Ireland. Um, Ali Wheels and warriors hacking. Nice to see some familiar faces in the show in the audience today. And so, Julia, folks want to know, um, first of all back story, because there's a great little line in the longer bio and some of the research that I have read about you and again, we share a bunch of mutual friends. You can talk a little bit about that, but but it says something like you skipped the easy bake oven as a young and went straight to the real thing. So this has been in your soul. It sounds like for a long time to take us back to how you got how you got started. Because so many people there like wandering in the wilderness right now, trying to figure out what they want to do with this one precious life. Hearing origin stories is always a great place to start, and it helps orient our audience. Sure, Yeah. You know, I something I admire about the work you do on your show is like sharing all this like very practical stuff that comes with creativity, because it can be hard to describe. And I wish I had some moment to share with you about becoming interested in food, getting involved in the kitchen. But I really don't because I don't remember ever not loving to cook. I mean, since I was such a little kid and the easy bake oven thing. I mean, it's true, like I have been in the kitchen like the adult real kitchen since before I can remember, And I think that that is just something I'm very lucky. You know, I can't really describe that to anything in particular. It's just sort of this innate interest and curiosity and passion. I do think there is something hereditary. My mom's parents I never met ran a bread bakery. Um, I feel like there's something there on my dad's side of the family. My great grandfather ran out of flour mill, so I feel like there's like, gluten D N A. Yeah, but, you know, Yeah, exactly. Like literally. Um But I think another thing that really just set me up for the career I have for, you know, living in life like this. I mean, you can see is quite literally surrounded by books is both. My parents worked in publishing, so I grew up in a home, specifically the magazine business. So I grew up in a home where I saw my parents, you know, making, um pages with images and words, like assembling them like my parents would. I'm not that old, but like on the weekends, they were cutting things out and pasting them. Um, that's what they continue to do. So I've, you know, I was exposed very early on to printed medium to printed matter. You know, I saw that these books and stuff that you know I love and that I now make They're not just things that appear like there's people whose jobs that is to make them so, Yeah, I cooked forever, and I studied, um, English as well and I was an English major in college, and I actually studied poetry, which would be happy to talk more about, if you like, because I think it informs a lot of my cookbook writing. So that's kind of the path. And then I worked with a bunch of people and have gotten to do my own books too. So yeah, well, part of the poetry. Oh, sorry for interrupting that. There was a little leg. The poetry part of your back story, I think, is interesting because one of the things that I noticed immediately when I got got your book is, you know, sort of the the inclusion of the personal essays and photos from your life that go beyond just recipes. I know it says, like the sub. Here is 110 easy recipes for healthy comfort food. But it's the sort of the intertwining of your life, your life story and the personal p. O. V to me, which sucked me in way beyond most of the cookbooks that I'm familiar with. So was that that part of you know, the part of what makes you different is your background in poetry and maybe English literature or you know why the decision to include those things for me, it's just it's made a lot of the difference. Like it sucked me into the book. But for what reason did you did you do that? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I mean, I think you know my background and studying poetry and stuff. I don't know if it sets me apart. I mean, but I know that it helps me. It helps me just look at the world very closely. I think, you know, I don't write poems that much anymore every now and then I do. But you know, I'm not. That is not my career. But it is definitely, like an identity identify with, because I think if you are a poet or you're just someone who likes poetry, it just means you're paying attention to details, and you're kind of looking at things in that way. And that's very much. What I do is a cookbook author and in terms of incorporating all the personal writing that's in this book, I mean, this is definitely my most personal book yet, and for me, that's what I love most about my favorite cookbooks there is, like such a clear voice. You do feel like that person is with you in the kitchen, and it's why I have been interested in food my whole life and continue to be interested in it. It's I love food. I love to cook. I'm happy to talk about, like whatever recipe you want, but it's It's not about the food. I mean it is, but it's not. It's about all the stories that come with it. It's all the feelings that come with cooking and eating all the interactions I've had with people over meals and in the kitchen. It's the stories that matter to me just as much, if not more than the food just as much. They're both important s. It's necessary, but not sufficient. You couldn't have a cookbook with that food, but to me it's the part of the sufficient like what makes this, especially this recent book so special is that the interconnecting this and it's sort of like food the way that we talk about creativity on the show. It's not just art creativity with the capital C. If you widen the aperture of what, uh, what creating does whether it's building a business or painting or co creating this conversation right now, I just think of it with a capital C. I think you've done the same with Capital F food like it's a mechanism around around convening people. It's, uh, cultural connections. And those are so many things that I we want to get to. But before we do, you you said a couple things in your early description of your early life and you started in a grown UPS kitchen. Uh, easy, big stuff. And there are people right now, and I'll just refer to some of them. There's Charlene and Soul and Hawking and Ali and Susan and Wheels and Warriors and Ali that if I know our listeners and watchers, they probably didn't have this sort of what seemed to be like a free and open and encouraging households, which which to be brought up in where it was steering you to pursue your dreams. Now I could also be mistakenly overlaying I heard onto your actual life, and maybe there's a gap between what I'm describing and what wasn't. But if you felt it from your earliest time that it was in your bones was that part of the family and if so, fantastic. But what advice would you give? Someone is who didn't have and is trying to pull off the threads and understand a little bit about how they want to spend at least the working part of this one precious life they had. You have any advice for those listening and watching? You know, And I appreciate the I don't know, sensitivity. You're expressing in this question, too. And, you know, I'll say that I have felt and continue to feel so supported in my life by my family by my friends, who I consider my family like that has been a through line in my life, and I understand what a privilege that is and how much I wish it wasn't a privilege. Like, I wish that was just a given. So I just you know, I appreciate how you said that. And yeah, for anyone who has any creative interest, any particular passion, whether it's food or whatever music painting, talking to people like conversation. Um, yeah, if you if that wasn't clear to you early on, or maybe it has been, But you haven't gotten that support you know if there is some roadblock there of any kind. I mean, that's hard. Anything. Just acknowledging that that's hard is, you know, Step one. And for me, something I think about a lot. I actually have it written down my justice right there. You can't say I surrounded by notes and something I wrote down for myself. That I look at every single day is I don't know. I don't know if someone said this to me and I thought of it. But the long game is the short game just over and over. And I what I mean by that is like, Oh, we have is our day to day life. And I think often, I don't know, I'd be curious what your thoughts are on this, But I just think creativity gets romanticised so much, You know, if I'm talking about food, it's like, Oh, my God, this beautifully laid table and the organic artisanal, you know, authentic chicken and, you know, on on and on. And, um, I dug these carrots myself and all of the stuff, and I mean, that's wonderful, like I'm all for it. But it becomes, in a way, like the idea of the thing and not the thing itself. And I just feel like the more I don't know, aspirational creativity seems the more romanticized it seems like the further we get from just the day to day making of things and thinking about things, I think we forget that we're making decisions about how we're spending our life. And so, you know, I just really, you know, if you're not getting the support you need, I think figuring out if it's, I guess worth it like, Are you doing something that you are you enjoying it like is the price of making some wonderful creative thing? Is it causing you to lose sleep or to be more stressed or you know these kinds of things? And I think figuring out how to make these things work in your day to day life and just really assessing what is most valuable to you and for some people, that includes spending a lot of time on social media and engaging, and that can be really fun and positive. And for some people, that's a terrible thing, like, you know, So I think just checking in, Yeah, I think checking in with like Okay, I have this big idea of this big creative idea, but what does it mean on a day to day level and maybe from me? That's because I write recipes for living like I love breaking things down to the elements and just like, how do we make the thing, like, not just the idea. So yeah, that's something I just think about a lot. I don't know if that totally answers, but there's so much wisdom in there. I remember when you were talking, I get conjured up a video I made one time after having you know, done a live call for the podcast. Someone was talking about how you know they have all the stuff. They've got the latest camera and they've got a script, you know, they have like, they've they've basically stacked all the things to do the stuff around themselves, but they haven't actually taken the step to the doing part. And you talked about romanticizing it and that while that is nice to conjure up these emotions and wellbeing feelings of well being. But if you don't actually like the process and I think I used an example of, you know, if you've got a cigarette, zee beret, and you're doing all these things and you're studying films. And if you're not actually making a film, then what? You really love the idea of the thing right? That thing truly fall in love and to truly be able to express your heart. What you need is to love the process, and you just think of what you just described Deck. I love the process of breaking things down. And what are the staple ingredients and what are building blocks? So I think, in a way that that is absolutely fantastic. Advice that you've given is, you know, for the folks that are wondering, like, what do you actually love spending your time with? And then there's one kind of thing I want to poke at, which you talked about people having people around you who support your ideas. And so, how active did you have to be? In we're curating is a little bit of a snobby word, but in like deciding who you're going to hang out with and who you know. Did you have people that were not supportive along the way? And how how are you able to navigate away from them. And And if we think about it in a positive sense, are you able to gravitate towards people that what your ideas and lifted you up and said, You know, actually, being a chef, that could be an amazing way to live your life and express yourself. Go for it, Yeah, that's such an interesting question. I think I don't know. I think my answer to that question just has evolved and continues to evolve. And I mean, as a young person, I don't know if I realized maybe how much agency I had and picking and choosing who was around me, and I think I had a lot less agency. Um, but I do think I don't know when I think back to my young self and middle school and high school and stuff like, I was always a person who I went to a very small school, too, so this might be part of it, but I just I feel like I was very friendly with everyone, but I wasn't particularly close to anyone like it took me a while to find, like I would say, my people, and by that I mean the people that I feel like I could be my full self around. But that's not a dig at anyone like high school with. I think that I didn't know my full self at that point. I don't know who does and it took me. It took me time to get to know me, which is something I continued to do every day. And the more I get to know myself and be open to how complicated and messy person is, Um, the more I find myself drawn to other people who are unafraid to be honest and open. And I enjoy that, and I find a lot of support in that not like direct support, like Not like I don't know, my parents are helping me put together like Ikea furniture support or like picking me up at the airport like That's wonderful, but like the kind of support I feel when I, um I don't know, I feel like this is a different topic, but it's coming up for me as we're talking about this. But I think a lot of what I attempted to do in this book, you know, you were showing the subtitle of the book. It's very surreal to see you holding the book like It's so new, right? Like I'm used to just like it's on my computer and now we're holding it like this moment just does not get old, no matter how many books you work on. And I think something I tried to do in this book it is a book of healthy comfort food, and I really tried to take a very wide and very generous definition of those words. This is a healthy book that has nothing to do with weight loss, and we can get more into that if you want. But for me, I grew up in the magazine business, which is to say, I grew up very much in diet culture, and that's something I've had a really hard time with. Be happy to talk about it more. But in me pushing against that and just de tangling that for myself, I have a really helpful thing which I think is applicable to any shift or change. You're going through career change or just mindset. Change or value change is changing what you consume in all forms, like not just food, but like the podcast. I listen to books I read and I find support in those people, whether I know them or not, you know a lot of them, like changing who's, like, literally in your ear, like on your headphones. And for me, shifting out of diet culture has very much been it feels to me like learning a new language. Like I was brought up speaking this language of, like, the best thing you could possibly be as thin. The worst thing you could possibly be as fat. That was, like the language, the vocabulary. And now I feel like I'm learning this new language, and I think like learning any language like the best thing is to immerse yourself in it. And so, you know, I just yesterday on my instagram I shared a bunch of these resources books and podcasts and stuff that have been really helpful for me because I think, yeah, I love the logistics of like, How do you find resources? But also within those resources is support. That's what resources are its support. It's like the scaffolding. No, that is amazing. I appreciate you sharing. No one to go a little bit deeper on that. I'd be happy to. These are ways in which your and again the folks who are listening and watching you can easily lift and stamp this onto your own life. What I hear you say it like that was a part of what you were, You know, the culture that you were raised in and now bringing that new vocabulary, this desire to be bringing that to food is actually your innovation. That is, you know, that is a lens that you have that unique experience. And when I was saying earlier, like the personal essays and all of the like that made this cookbook different for me, then the other 40 that I have above our above our kitchen. So to anyone listening or watching like that is such sound advice like, what are? What's the thing that you you know, that whether you think of this as a win or a loss or your it's a bag of bricks or it's, you know, the fuel for your fire you're carrying with you and you might as well, you know, double down on it. I don't know if I put words in your mouth, but how does that feel when I say it? Yeah. Oh, it totally lands. And I would say, I think I'm thinking about two things. One is So I've had the, I would say, pretty like unusual, not unheard of, but unusual experience of having both authored my own cookbooks like a You know, a few of them. And I've also collaborated with a ton of other people on their cookbooks. I've been, you know, a co author and a project manager and all these different things. Um, so I have just helped put a lot of books into the world, Not all of them mine And the advice that I, you know, if anyone asked me about the cookbook process or anyone I'm working with, if we're talking about it, I give the same advice everywhere. And it's the advice I try to follow myself, which is to only write the book that only you can write. And so for me, like simply, Julia is only a book that I only could have written because it is so personal. And it does take years of my both passion for cooking, my love of it, the calm and confidence I feel when I'm cooking. You know, I try to give that to my readers. I want you to I just feel like the world is really stressful and like you shouldn't feel stressed out in your kitchen. That's basically like my goal, Um, but it also comes with my years of just experience of being a daily home cook and my years of experience of someone who's had a difficult relationship with my body and just being honest about it in a healthy cookbook. So all of that is particular to me, but I'm not alone in any of that. So I think that is big. And so that's one thing I'm thinking about when you bring that up. And the other thing is, I don't know. I'm really just kind of having a moment here because I don't know if we had this conversation a year ago or something, let alone longer than that. Like, I don't think I could sit here as calmly as I am right now. Like my heart rate is not elevated like I feel very relaxed, very comfortable. I mean, you make you make me feel comfortable and safe, but also like I've worked through a lot of this stuff and I for so long this conversation would have, I would have been sweating. I would have been nervous. I would have maybe said like maybe we shouldn't have this conversation like it was something I felt like so much vulnerability around, like a lot of shame and guilt and all those kinds of things. And I think, you know, I think about that acceptance speech that lean away. They gave or I can't remember what award it was. Um, whatever. She should win all the awards. But when you know, she said that you know the things that make us feel other or like our superpowers. Like I really identify with that. And I get that from the perspective of you know, I'm an openly gay woman. I write a ton about my wife. Um, that's really important to me, but also like sharing the stuff about my body and body image and stuff like I felt so alone in it. I felt so like it's not something I can talk about, and I've really you know, the book is only just come out, and I already feel this deep sense of connection with so many readers that isn't about the food. But I also think the food is the way in. You know, I didn't write a memoir about body image, which there's nothing wrong with that. I've been so moved by like Roxanne Gay's book Hunger Changed My Life, like along with so many other people. It's I just think there's I just think we need these messages everywhere. You know, diet culture is everywhere. Fat phobia is everywhere, like we need to push against it in so many different places. And I think cookbooks are welcomed in people's homes and lives in a way other types of media aren't. And I mean one joke. I make a lot. I don't know if it's funny, but I just always feel like a cookbook is like one of the only books you can read. And you know it's going to end well, like no one's gonna get hurt. Um, so I just think weaving these messages in like I'm a big fan of Trojan, horsing a lot of stuff through cookbooks like, Yeah, those are just some thoughts that came from what you just said. So Well, that's thank you so much again. And you said something, uh, grabbed the James Joyce quote that bring, which is, like in the particular lights, the universal. You know, it's like this. This the thought that you were alone in anything is if that is a reason to share it. And once you do, I think this is a recurring theme for the show. You talked about it. I've experienced it as soon as you share what feels like the most vulnerable aspect. That is a way to capture a reclaim some personal power because you realize that you're not alone. And whether you're reclaiming personal powers to feel good about yourself or to advance your vision or mission for your life or it's that is there's a connectedness. And whether we like it or not, we're social animals, right? And so finding our path in this world and doing it through vulnerability and authenticity, bringing all of those things those stories that we have about our lives true hand falls along with us for the ride is actually the ticket. Uh, as you talked about having experienced that with with your, um, your work that makes me talk about equity at the table. Sure. Yeah. Please. So this is a project that I'll let you describe it. But please share with us. Yeah, yeah, beautiful idea that when you find this path that you're supposed to be on, how many interesting and adjacent seas come out like, You know, you mentioned Roxanne Gaye, who's been a guest on the show. She's a friend of Creativelive, Debbie Millman, her wife and also guest on the show. I've been a guest on her podcast. There's just so much on the family, but, you know, I'd love to hear you know this theme. But when you're doing the thing, there's so many anything. Adjacency is that weave in and out of your life, which is why one of the reasons I want so many people will be doing the thing they're supposed to be doing on this planet, despite what their parents or career counselors or spouse says. But this is like an interesting you know, uh, addition to your work. So talk to talk to me about equity table. Sure. First, I'll just tell you what it is, and then I'll maybe share some thoughts about how it very much ties to all this. If I can remember everything that's on my mind right now because you just, like, really sparked a lot. So equity at the table, um, is a website equity at the table dot com. You can, you know, go to it right now if you like. It started in April of 2018, so it's coming up on its third birthday. I guess I'm just realizing. And so equity at the table is a digital directory. It's a database. Um, I started it that April. I started it with a wonderful advisory board and a Web developer. It was very much inspired by another website that I imagine is on your radar. And if it's not a I'm happy to put it on your radar called Women Who Draw, which is a direct a digital directory of, um, illustrators. And it's amazing. An amazing resource. And so equity at the table is a database for, um, women and gender, non conforming and non binary individuals. In the food world, the food world is a huge umbrella term. There are so many industries within the food industry, and it is a place that very much prioritizes and champions. Anyone who identifies as a, you know, a black or indigenous person of color or and or as part of the queer community. And there's also resources for those people. But it's It's an incredibly simple website to navigate, and you can look people up by, um, not just their profession. And people can choose whichever professions you know they identify with. You can also look them up by location. And we have members all over the world. I think, in every state. And you can also look up, you know, and you can look up combinations of these things. You can also look up by how people identify. So whether that is by, um, you know, just like their background or race or whatever it might be. And the reason I wanted to start it was because I was looking for a site like it, and I couldn't find it. And being the recipe writer, I am. I just, you know, and I love lists and and organizing things. Um, I just thought it would be like a pretty simple thing to build. I am not a tech person. I worked with someone great to do that. It wasn't as simple as I thought, but no matter. I'm super happy it exists it is free to join and free to use. And it will always be those things that has nothing to do with money. There's no I'm not trying to sell it like anything. Yeah, and it is really something that is rooted completely in community and not capitalism. And, you know, I've been asked a lot like, Well, what's the next step for it and how are you going to scale it? And I'm like, No, it's it's a database like that's what it is and what it always will be. So that's sort of one interesting thing, And then I think, to kind of tie into what you brought up before two thoughts come to mind. One is so everyone submits a picture and it can be a picture of them or something they feel represents them. I know not everyone wants to put their face on the Internet, Um, and within all of those images, and when you go to the site, you know you can just scroll and scroll and the site randomizes so you know it's not. You're not seeing the same people each time you open it, and there is a tremendous amount of power in just the visual representation of seeing this many faces and names who belong to categories that have been so other for so long within the food industry, within all industries. And I think it really speaks to the power of just the mindset of going from like scarcity mindset to abundance. Um, you know, something I've heard over and over in my 15 years of working on cookbooks is like, Well, I just don't know any I don't know black person who works in pastry or something or like, Where am I supposed to find someone who's indigenous, who knows about you know, certain food ways or and on and on someone living with a disability? And there's that. So this makes it very undeniable, like, No, there's so many of us like multiple multiple options. So there's that, and I think also, I think, scarcity mentality, which is so interwoven with capitalism, and I think is so against all the stuff that is so wonderful about creativity. I think it really puts us in a position where we are just constantly comparing ourselves to each other, constantly, feeling like Well, if this person is doing this, then there's not room for me to do it. And you know, the kind of guiding principle of equity at the table that, like aphorism that's on the website that, like, inspired the whole thing is that it's just better to build longer tables instead of higher fences. And I think that equity at the table really shows just what abundance looks like. And the other thought that comes to mind is when I started it the way I was, the way I thought success for the website would be measured would be and how many people were hired from it or featured, um, you know, how many jobs or connections it would create between basically like gatekeepers and members of the website. So magazine editors or conference organizers? You know, people have podcasts and shows and stuff like Who are they booking and what I've come to understand? And it's been such a powerful lesson for me is that the other you know that's super important is definitely a measurement of success. I love hearing Oh, I got this job through someone reaching out to me this way. But the other unit of measurement, the other barometer that I have come to just so embrace is how much connection members have had with each other and the community that has come out of this database. And that, to me, is just such an important unit of measurement, just using community as currency more than anything else and for people to know that they're not alone in doing what they do. You know, again, coming back to like, as I was talking about with diet, culture and all that stuff, like, It's just I just think not feeling alone is really important. And I think a lot of the creative work that we all have the potential to make can really foster connection in that way. That just leaves us feeling less isolated, which I just think it's really crucial, absolutely, and thank you for saying all of that and also for making the thing. I think that's another theme from the show is we all have an anticipation of some of the value or some of the benefit that our work can be in the world, but you never actually know. And just the idea you thought that the measure of success was going to be, you know, getting jobs and you know, hiring and what you really realizes its community and or even, you know, pull back a little bit. Just it's so hard to be what you can't see. And if you can provide a picture, you know you're not alone. Look how many other people in this we're in this together that's so valuable and just a consistent and effective reminder that whether the work that you do it affects two people or 10 or 10 million is you don't know until you do the work you're doing in and of itself. And I think something else you're pointing to that just feels really important to me personally is, you know, the value you just might not even know you're adding. And when I put out my first solo cookbook, which was called Small Victories, you know, I had worked on a bunch of other books with all sorts of different people. But I had never put out my own book and promoted it, and I thought my measurement of success was like, How many people can I help make dinner tonight? You know, like that felt really important to me. Like, how many books can I sell like those were the things that were kind of drilled into me like, this is how you measure your worth. Like, what's your Amazon ranking and all this stuff that I frankly, just no longer care so much about? And what happened to me when I put out that book that I just didn't know what happened was as I mentioned, I talk about my wife so much because I talk about what I cook at home, and my home is me and my wife and our two dogs. So, like, they come up a lot And, um, I I cannot tell you I'm not saying this in a bragging way. I'm saying this in a way that I just I I'm just so moved by this. I cannot tell you how many conversations I've had over the years with, like, especially young queer women, but all sorts of members of the queer community when they tell me what it means to see, you know, me as a woman used the word wife over and over and something as just ordinary as a cook book, you know? And it has just led to so much connection, and you know that I think is part of what made me feel so safe and encouraged to include more of myself in this new book and simply Julia than I have in the past, because I've been met with that kind of response and it is truly so powerful and I didn't plan it. And I think if I had planned it or gone looking for it, like I don't know if I would have found it. Like, I think sometimes you have to make the work that's true to you to find out. You know what comes on the boomerang back to you. So I want to see the whole staircase rate. But you can only see a couple of stairs and it's been doing that work and taking those steps that boomerang come back to you. Um, well, again, thank you so much for sharing those insights. I feel like that's a that is embedded in the work, and you can just feel it when you feel like Why are you attracted to a particular film or story or podcaster? And in this case, your books, it's like that is so It's like, so present, um, so thank you for doing that and well, let's just let's let's destroy, uh, equity at the table dot com. Yeah, all right. For you. If you want to learn a little bit more about that, have access to that database. And you also mentioned your instagram handle. I would like to get that in here too, So, yeah, um, it's just my last name at Torshin T and I r s a g n. You got it are out there and it's it's awesome and beautiful and it's fun to hear again. You've put so much into it. Um, but I also I want to dive into food for a second. Part of the benefit of the show is that we get to talk about so many things and, for example, your creativity. You process your history. All that is just that's part of what makes us, hopefully a rich conversation for folks listening and watching. And yet, as if there's recipes someone who thought the the idea of healthy I I like to consider myself a relatively healthy, mindful person and loving comfort food for the emotions and the connections and the, you know, again, we're social animals and doing such a nice job of bringing us together. We're talking about food from in here. Why? Comfort food. And how did you did you start with the healthy and then decide that this that comfort food was underrepresented, uh, population in the food universe? Or how did you arrive at the concept of health and comfort food? Because, frankly, it's exactly what I was looking for and cooking out of it. And Julie, who is the producer of the show, is staying earlier. How much he's cooking out of it. How'd you come up with the concept and talk us through the creative process about the recipes that are in the book? Um, so I am about to just talk about my wife a bunch. I basically felt, you know, I mentioned I worked on other books and I felt like I felt like I had another in me, and I felt like that was that feeling was propelled by just the fact that I have been a daily home cook for a very long time. And I do a lot of volunteering in my community, like through food, and I just have a lot of things I make that I feel like other people would like, basically, And when it came time to really hone in on what that is and how to describe it, I was having a really hard time doing that because I love food from so many different parts of the world from so many different places again, stories attached to all of it. And I just didn't know how to. What is the simplest way to describe that? And I was going on and on coming up with different titles and subtitles and just I couldn't wrap my head around it. And as you can maybe tell by how I'm describing it, I just had a hard time coming up with one or two words. And so I was saying this to Grace, and, uh, and she was like Juliet, like enough already. You make healthy comfort food like That's what you make like if you specialize in anything, that's what it is. And I was like, Oh my gosh, Okay, Yeah, Sometimes it takes like having someone who you know, that moment where you're like, you know, for me it's my wife, but it could be your friend or your parent or your child, whatever but like when you have someone close to you who like in certain moments it's like, Oh, they're seeing me a lot clearer than I am right now Like it was very much that kind of thing. Um, So once I had this sort of healthy comfort food thing, it just all clicked into place because it helped me. You know, I put a frame around all this stuff that I was having trouble organizing, and the minute I had the framework, it all felt much easier to put into place. So that's kind of where that came from. And then in terms of the recipes themselves and how they're organized, you know, this is we've talked so much, and I so appreciate talking so much about how personal this book is, but it's also, at the same time, absolutely the most practical book I've ever written. These are the simplest recipe is the easiest. But also the way they're organized is very much a response to basically the most frequently asked questions I've received over the last few years of being someone who puts out a ton of different cookbooks. You know, I speak to people on social media, I speak to my friends and family like I speak to my dad all the time about what he's cooking. He's always like I don't know what this thing is in the freezer like, What do you think I should do with it? Like that's a very frequent conversation. Um, so the book kind of response to those questions. So there's things like, You know, there's a whole chapter of vegan one pot meals because I think a lot of people are, you know, trying to eat more plants and all that stuff. But, you know, I don't want to just eat pasta primavera over and over and doesn't do anything wrong with that. But, you know, to have some more things, but really easy. One pot, easy clean up. You know, there's a whole chapter of, like, really delicious but super simple, like salad dressings and like eazy sauces, you can just throw on, you know, both greens or like a rotisserie chicken from the store. You know, grill of this or that, like Super Super Easy. Just make it a little bit more special and make it more fun. Um, you know, the chapters really are about that. There's a chapter of just all chicken recipes. You know, it's like the most Googled thing like, but I also think like there's something about creating a cookbook where the thing that I am trying to create all the time as best I can, whether it's being honest in a conversation like the one we're having or like putting a lot of thought into how we write the recipe is like, I'm just trying to establish as much trust as I can like, I want someone to know if they open my book, you can trust like a You're in a safe space like I'm super honest here. Like I want you to feel comfortable and be like if you make my recipe like it's going to turn out and it will become your recipe like, my goal is for you to make it so many times that like it becomes your thing. Like you forget, even maybe where it came from, like that kind of feeling. So, yeah, trust just feels very important to me. Yeah, uh, well, the hard questions come from the audience, not for me. I'm here to have a conversation, but Susan is asking the tough question. Do you have a favorite, but being asked anything with this superlative, right? Your favorite song. The best movie that it was just, like, wither under the pressure. So try and feel no pressure, but maybe talk about yeah. How about I give you a couple, right? Okay. I mean, you know, they're all my favorites. I can't pick her favorite, but, I mean, for the first time, I really live. Okay, the first recipe in the book. I'll hold this up so you can see it. Okay. This is my friend you buzz recipe that she gave me for uber's green spaghetti. This is such a great recipe because you don't have to chop anything, so you cook your box of spaghetti. I use whole wheat spaghetti because I just I mean healthy. Yes, but also like it tastes really nutty. And it stands up to this really robust sauce. Really well. So for me, flavor is like the most important thing, and the sauce is fresh, raw spinach and kale. You put in a blender with some garlic and a little cream cheese and a little feta cheese. So you get, like, a little creamy, a little salty, and I just I just Man, my stomach literally just growled if you if the microphone was like maybe a little bit lower, you would have heard my stomach growl and he said, I'm so happy to hear that. And you just It basically looks like you've made like a green smoothie. But I mean, it tastes better than any green smoothie, and it poured over the pasta. That's it. One pot. That's it. Um, this is another favorite. These stewed chickpeas with peppers and zucchini. This is in the this isn't the one pot vegan meal chapter. Um, this recipe was born out of, um, Grace and I volunteer. I mentioned we do some community stuff. We volunteered to place, um, near us called Angel Food East, which is kind of like a local Meals on Wheels program. And in the summer, local farmers donate like crates and crates of zucchini and peppers, and we're always trying to make a meal like quickly, easily, healthfully and cheaply. You know, like all of the ingredients in my book are very affordable, very available, like that feels very important to me in terms of healthy food like it shouldn't cost a fortune, it's gonna be hard to find. Um, so that recipe. You basically throw those things in one pot, and then you make this like really delicious sauce with. You can use a vegan may or regular. If you're not vegan, a little garlic and parsley and you just drizzle it on. It can stay in your refrigerator forever. It's so it's like, surprisingly good for how easy it is, which is like, my favorite kind of thing. And maybe she'll show you one dessert. Okay, okay, I'm going to show this is hard to choose, but, yeah, there's all these super easy desserts. This is this cobbler. So this cobbler is. It's the any frozen fruit and cornmeal cobbler, and it's called that just literally, because you can use any type of frozen fruit, which, again easy, like frozen fruit, is picked when it's ripe. It's like frozen immediately, so it tastes really good. It's also cleaned and peeled and pitted and chopped. You know, like peeling peaches is so hard there's they're slippery, so this you mix it like right in the baking dish. You don't even need to like dirty. You know, many bowls, the topping is just like cornmeal and flour, like a tiny bit of sugar just to make it sweet. A little half and half that you could use it, buttermilk or whatever you want. And it's just so easy, like a kid can make it. And it's so good and it's again, surprisingly good for how easy it is. I think that's like That's the level. Maybe this is why I'm so attracted to your work. That's the level that I fly at. It's great. How can it be easy and good? And also, you know, we've We've talked a couple of There's two separate points I want to make that they're related to your won the beauty of the food and you know we're in a pandemic, so it's difficult to host and get to share a lot of what I make in my kitchen. Um, you know, maybe it's different for some folks elsewhere, but, uh, and yet when I can, I still feel the feeling when I'm making something of the beauty in it. If I see it and you know when you set that in front of someone else that is, you know that's a part of the experience you mentioned. The flavor is the most important thing to you, which is great. We can stack rank these these important things, but as a very visual. So when I set, you know, beautiful state that I've just done in a French style and the cast iron skillet in front of someone there, you're like, Wow, that is a beautiful thing. And you just slice it up. And so many, Like, I mean, obviously you're making cookbooks, so you make food look beautiful for a living, basically. But I was just shocked and like, so impressed and motivated and excited. But it also makes me want to mention Molina Hammer, who, thank you, is a co conspirator with you and and, uh, cheap photograph the whole book or just parts of the book. Or most photographed all the food. Um, there are also a lot of old family photos in the book. So obviously those came from, you know, albums and stuff behind me and another photographer, Winnie, who's awesome. She shot the cover of the book and a couple of portraits. We did that one day, but yeah, Molina is amazing. Well, she just just as an f y I she is going to be a guest. We have created life. Have another. Another podcast called We are photographers. And to sort of pair with this, we've got Molina, um, coming on our we are photographer podcast to talk about to talk about photographing this. So I'm so happy to hear that because it's quite a story. It is. Yeah, What a massive endeavor. So when we're talking, you mentioned a couple of the chapters of the book, like all about chicken and the Vegan One pot. Um, I have two specific questions that are related to my challenge. 11 is referenced in the book and the other is not. So I'm gonna ask it the one that we'll start with the one that's referenced in the book where this is a selfish chase question. Here you talk about pre made main dishes or and to me, that is where I always blow up, as if I I can't. I end up. You know, I can't forecast what I'm going to want or I can just this this, um making it so that I'm not completely time pressured And where cooking is not fun versus like just getting some stuff ready or having it handy. And so talk to I was fascinated by that chapter because it satisfies. I realized that that's where some, like frustration or, uh, or anxiety comes in hosting others. So even if it's just like planning for my wife, Kate and I are any, um, talk to me about that. Yeah, so that chapter all like, make ahead main dishes. Um, that chapter is there because I think sometimes making something ahead just makes everything much easier. You know, I'm thinking about something like a big holiday meal in the before times when we have a lot of people over and stuff like, um to meet like something like Thanksgiving, where my family is Jewish. We have a big Passover Seder, like making these big holiday meals. They stress everyone out so much, and I always just think about what's the best part of Thanksgiving. It's like all the leftovers you eat on Friday, right? So, like therefore, all that food tastes really good when it's warmed up the next day so you can make it all ahead, like you don't have to stress out because I don't think that I really I know that I'm saying this based on a lifetime of home cooking. So you know, I know some of this is easier for me than other people, but I just really believe that there is no element of like a holiday meal that is so difficult to make. The thing that is so difficult is timing it. I think that's where the pressure comes in and the urgency length of false urgency. And so I just think when you can just do yourself a favor, do yourself the favor. So like if you can make something, I had to do it. And there's a lot of food that I I don't think you can just get away with making ahead. I think it tastes even better if you do so like anything that's like stewed or braised or slowly cooked, like all those things taste better if they've been in a container in the fridge for a day or two. So if you know you're having people over or if you want to meal plan, um, or if you just have like I don't know a couple hours on a Sunday afternoon and you don't feel like answering your emails that you plan to get through whatever. And you just want to, you know, have like, a productive procrastination like you can make like a braised pork shoulder, and you can put it into containers or zip lock bags and freeze portions of it. And then, like on a Tuesday night when you're super busy and you forgot that you know you have to eat or something. I mean, that's never happened to me, but I heard that that happened. Like you can pull out your little Ziploc bag of the pork, you know, run it under some more water and heat it up in a pan, and you don't, you know, make some quick tacos or something like I just think there's a lot of joy to be found in the calmness that comes with just making things ahead when you have the time to do it and you're not rushed and forced. So yeah, that's a little bit. I not only do I eat the best, but I'm It's the most joyful experience when I planned a little bit, and I have some of those things that I can just sort of pull out and and get what would be like an unreasonably amazing thing on a Tuesday night when I've only 20 minutes to a good meat or something? So that's an amusing chapter. And we're seeing Rosemary Delarosa, just joined here in our live broadcast is asking the title again. I'm here, Uh, with Julie, Her new book, Simply Juliet. Um, so that was the 0.1, my self as questions here. Yeah. You can host a second. I'm just going to show you a picture on my phone. And I snapped right before recording, which I don't know if you can see that, but that's what this is. It's basically left over C s A. So we ordered from a local farm. And, you know, grocery bags full of stuff show up. And you know, in this case, you know, you get squashes and potatoes and onions, and I think there's some What are those things with the little seeds inside of them? Um, one of those things called you. Crack them open? No, that's an apple. Never mind, but yeah, but there's just like there's that mound a food on this tray that we've got that sits in the corner of the kitchen and it's like it is everything under the sun. And I can't like I'm I don't like to waste things And I'm guessing I'm not alone in the particular lies the universal and I'm guessing that there's a lot of people. You go to the grocery store, you buy a bunch of stuff you realize at the end of the week all this stuff is about to go bad, and I feel horrible and guilty, and I want to make it and maybe put it in those containers and put it in that. Help me solve this problem. How should I start to think about everything under the sun menu that comes after you've, like, what? The leftovers of my my farm delivery. Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that, because I think this is a situation a lot of people get into, especially people who, you know, are drawn to something like a healthy cookbook and, you know, maybe they want to buy a ton of produce or support their local farm like a C. S. A is an awesome thing to do. It's it's so wonderful super quickly for anyone who doesn't know what Chase is talking about. like community supported agriculture. It's like got history in like black farmers. It's like an amazing thing, and many small farms across the country do it. You give the farmer money up front, and then throughout the season you get produce, but you don't often get to choose exactly what it is. It's like farmers choice, which can be stressful because sometimes you get like £10 of onions. But it's also I find it wonderful because I love the creative challenge of like figuring it out. I love that, and basically, I will give you advice for maybe the next time you pick up your share. Like what I do when I pick up my share and also advice for the picture. You showed me what's on your counter. And so I guess, in the potatoes and apples for this stuff you already have. I mean, that all sounds really like kind of like fall vegetables like root vegetables, that kind of stuff, everything you just named. If you you can just scrub it, you don't have to peel any of it and cut it into pieces and all of those things tossed with some olive oil and salt and put it on sheet pans and roast it in a 4 25 oven like you can't go wrong like all those things will be great and you can mix them together. You can do it, separate whatever you want. And I'm a big fan of doing as opposed to actually get quite stressed out with the idea of meal planning, because I try to eat very intuitively, and I just I don't know what I'm going to be in the mood for three nights from today. But I like basically putting a lot of stuff in my kitchen that I know I like and that I can turn into other things. So, you know, when I pick up my C s a share and there's a ton of potatoes, I'll do what I just told you. I'll roast a ton of them and then, you know, maybe that night Grace and I'll have, like, roast chicken with roast potatoes, and I'll make like a little tahini sauce or something really delicious. And then the next morning or two days later, maybe I'll cut up an onion and cook it and add the roasted potatoes that are already cooked they're already done, and we'll have, like delicious homemade hash browns. We'll have those in the morning with some greens and eggs or something, so I'll keep the big batch things like simple. But I think it's but keeping the big amount of whatever you're cooking really simple so that you can dress it up later and you can, you know you're not eating the same thing over and over. You're not making like, a huge pot of chili and just having it every night, which there's nothing wrong with. And I'd be happy to do that. But like I think giving yourself the flexibility to add a different spices or sauces really helpful. And then I try to when I pick up my CSS. So next time so you don't end up with, like, the tray of stuff where something is kind of going mouldy. And you know, you spent this money and it's all this fresh stuff, but you can't get to it in time. I try to This doesn't always happen, but I try to build in time when I pick up my share for like an hour or two afterwards, like I want to like we got spinach and R. C s a share this week. Spinach like it takes up this much room in your fridge, and when you cook it, it takes this mushroom. So I when I bring it home, I immediately wash it and I cook it and I'll put it in the fridge, even if it's just like steamed or cooked with a little garlic or something. And I'll put it in a container and then, like it takes up less room. We have a small fridge, so that's important to me. But it also means, like I've already cleaned it and prepped it. And so then, throughout the week until we get our next share, it's so much easier for me to grab a container of garlicky spinach and, you know, put it into an omelet or eat it on some rice with some soy sauce or something like I will do that as opposed to like, Oh, like I have to wash this stuff and cook it like that just feels draining to me. So taking the time upfront to like set yourself up for success, like building a little time to clean things, chop them, put it like in a Ziploc. Just make it easier for yourself. This makes me feel good and not alone. That even, you know, I don't wanna I don't wanna that stuff. Yeah, I will. Uh, that makes me feel good. Thank you for sharing that. And I know I'm guessing there are people out there who are similar to me and whether it's siesta or just stuff that you don't want to go bad. This idea of roasting vegetables has been huge so that you can do that. We chop and we also don't go too crazy. We chop a bunch of vegetables and 4 25. It's a huge Sometimes we'll do two completely full baking pans are making pants pants. And I know I'm stepping in here, but and tossed in olive oil and salt And 4, 25 you know, like spatula them up a couple of times throughout the roasting process, and they feel like like Lego predicts there, like even with a big piece of meat, You know, the next day Well, you know, they will be alongside an omelet and then for dinner the following night. Well, gosh, we're going to steam some halibut and now And so this idea of creating building blocks is things that I noticed was in your answer right there was just inherent in the answer, like bringing these things along. And you just add a thing and there are a little bit different. You put them next to a different main or in some eggs Or, um so thank you for solving two of my everyone know you're very welcome. I know. I'm really glad you asked. Because to me, what you're talking about is just daily home cooking where you know, not everything has to be a recipe in a cookbook. Like sometimes, you know, sometimes I just want like, like toast and sometimes, like, you know, like I make a lot of, like, things like like hummus and stuff like that. I keep in the fridge and like, I'll roast that tray of vegetables. And sometimes I just have, like, a piece of toast with some Hamas and those vegetables on top that is, like, so good. It's so satisfying. And if I have the bread on the counter Bahamas, you don't have to make it. And the roasted vegetables in the fridge like that takes less than five minutes. That's such a good meal. It makes me feel like I'm taking care of myself. It makes me feel good and like that's very valuable. And I just feel like when it comes to cooking at home and eating like we have the chance every single day to take care of ourselves like that's That's a wonderful opportunity. Awesome. Couple speed round questions here coming from around the world. Think that thing I was trying to name earlier was a Palmer. And yes, that was the thing I was thinking and didn't have the words, um uh, Lynn saying hello from Desperado, California uh, questions around avocado oil or compressed extra virgin olive oil. Do you have a preference? And if so, why, Sure, I am an olive oil girl. I use it on everything. It's like pretty much the only oil I keep in my house, and I Yeah, I toss things in it to roast. I make salad dressings. I use it in baking a lot like like I love like an olive oil cake or, you know, I fry eggs in it. I just I'm on team olive oil, and I really love um, it's not like sponsored, but I really love um, California Olive Ranch. I think they're like they produce their olive oil in a very like, um, great way, which not every company does. And like very environmentally like aware. And I think, for the quality of the oil and the price, it's like it's a really good product. Questions from the community about gluten free options, and you mentioned, you know, flower and you like it and and so much, I think, the whole episodes we can talk about gluten and its history and why, you know, it's different in America than in other countries. Cake, any bread in France and you just walk by a bread here in the United States and she gets basically she has a reaction. That's a separate question. But you know, as you know, you talked earlier about, you know, vegan and one pot, and it seems like there's a radical sort of utility and practicality to all of your work. How if someone has some food intolerances, can you give general advice? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, um, within my family, just between my wife, my in laws, my brother, my sister in law, like just between that group of people, there's, like one type one diabetic, one type two diabetic, one severe allergy to wheat and soy, one vegan like and that's just in that small group. So, you know, accommodating different dietary needs is something that I think about a lot, just like not just as a cookbook author, but just as like a person. Um, so that's why all the recipes in my book are just, like, incredibly flexible. And of the 110 recipes in the book I counted, 106 of them are gluten free, or it can be made very easily to be gluten free. Um, because I know it is something a lot of people suffer from, and I just basically feel like my advice around it is that when if you can eat anything or but you're cooking for someone who can't I just really like making food feel very inclusive and not making like, a separate thing for someone like I make, like making something everyone can enjoy, whatever the issues are. So I think just having that kind of spirit of inclusivity is nice. So that's sort of my emotional response to it. But like on a practical level, Um, I would say there's I think Cup for Cup is a great brand of like, all purpose, gluten free flour. That works really, really well. And you can use that pretty interchangeably in most recipes. And I think also, like lean towards things that are just inherently gluten free, as opposed to like trying to find all sorts of, you know, your substitutes. Yeah, like, you know, like there's a recipe for these really delicious, like, really, really delicious. Like cheesy ranch grits, which are like, You know, it's It's cornmeal. It's grits and with some grated cheddar cheese. And like all the flavors and spices you find in ranch dressing, because ranch dressing is delicious and you know corn is not wheat like it's inherently gluten free. It's a delicious thing. So I think just leaning into things that just are exactly what they are and you're not looking for a substitute. You're just celebrating things that make your body feel good. So, yeah, those are some thoughts. Amazing. Like every it is virtually universal in the comments that I'm seeing here. Damn, I'm hungry. Okay. I'm often under the European folks who are eating dinner now hot can damage the great conversation. I'm getting very, very hungry. So thank you for making us all hungry. I mean, occupational hazard your stories of food, essays that you bring about your personal life into your work. Um truly differentiate you and your work from the other other cookbooks that I still enjoy and have on my shelf. Um, so thank you again for making this a personal experience for us to connect with you the work again, If you are, you are just tuning in now because we're live. You have just missed an amazing conversation. I'm sorry, Julia. Direction, uh, simply Juliet, which dropped yesterday. Um, and if it's anything like your others and the all of the New York Times, accolades and, uh, that you have received will be a chart topper. And it seems like I don't know if the rest of the world is also like me, but I'm cooking a heck of a lot more these days, being inside and cooking for a smaller, um, for my immediate family and less hosting. And it's been an amazing area of creativity and exploration. But before we go, I'm hoping to get a What do you see in the future of how the pandemic has has affected the kitchen and competing? And, you know, I can see it cutting both ways. And as someone who lives, um, you know this, you know, life around food and and cooking and recipes. And I got to think that you've got a point of view on this and just curious What? What do you see emerging from this time? I mean, I think I am just as ready as everyone else for this time to be over. And so many people have had gone through so many struggles and challenges. But I also think, like, I don't know, I can only speak for myself. I, uh I've learned a lot of things over this past year that I really hope to carry with me and have been very valuable lessons that I wish weren't at the expense they were, Um, one of those things is just really acknowledging what a hard time this is and that the last thing we need to associate with food is like stress or guilt. And I think those things come up for people with food. A lot for various reasons. And I think simple food is really good. And you shouldn't have to deal with any anxiety to make yourself or your loved ones and meal and eating food you love and that makes you feel good. Like that should never feel guilty. And I hope that we carry that with us. And, you know, I'm not the person to ask about food trends or what's next. I have no idea. Like, I don't Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think just like really embracing like, simple is is valuable and like, yeah, they're just when we feel our healthiest, it should have nothing to do with, like, restriction or guilt like it should feel pleasurable and joyous and fun. So yeah, yeah, and just find a way around creativity. So it seems like this is such, uh, as as an advocate for creativity. When I found it in one part of my life and started to, like, try and, um, unleash it in the other areas of my life, I felt like the quality of my life overall went up, and that comes with mistakes that comes with failures that comes with some totally some ruined pancakes. Everyone around and talk to me a little bit about how you think and maybe release a little bit of the stigma that aspiring pretend chefs like myself and others, others listening When we when we really mess up like what is this a? Is this a How should we think about it? Because clearly make a lot of mistakes on your way to the greatness that you experience? Oh, yeah, I've like, you know, like you said, every batch of pancakes, there's always the first pancake and just knowing that's part of it. Like meanwhile, I'll eat all the pancakes, but that's fine. Um, but I think I appreciate what you just said before about during the pandemic and being at home where and, you know, those of us lucky to just be able to just stay safely at home. Um, you know, we all have been cooking, and I heard that you when you were saying that, that you said you found it's a place where you can be creative and I really love that. And I think that the kitchen is a pretty like at the end of the day, I don't know, there's a lot of pressure put on cooking a lot of pressure put on food. But at the end of the day, the kitchen is like a pretty low stakes environment, like if you if you burn the pancakes like you know, if you have the ingredients, you can make another batch. You can order a pizza. You can, you know, like it's just dinner. Like I say that all the time, all the time. I'm like it's just dinner or it's just lunch or breakfast whatever. Like, how lucky are we that there will be another meal like And I also just feel like every meal we eat doesn't have to be the best meal we've ever had. Like like I don't know. This morning I had cornflakes for breakfast. We have them in our house. I was craving them, and it, like, hit the spot. It was so good. Like I didn't want a fancy breakfast. Some mornings I wake up and I'm like, I wish I was in a hotel and I could just order room service. Um, but sometimes I just want corn flakes, and that's fine. So I think, knowing that just if you are a creative person, which I believe we all are like. The kitchen is a place where we can remind ourselves of that. And we also have the safety to not get it right every time. And that's really valuable. And it's nice to have a place that's so accessible, like most of us have a kitchen in our lives. And that's a place where we can remember that. And remember, it's like Okay not to get it right, because I think that's not something we hear a lot or get reminded of and like, we can't get it right each time, like that's impossible, so just forget it. Amazing. Well, salt champion here, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. There you go. Thank you. Thank you so much for the conversation. Rosemary. That food should feel pleasurable. Love that. So grateful. Susan Simple is how she likes to roll as well. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. Others Lynn wants to give a double shout out for for supporting California olive oil. We've got folks coming in from all over saying thank you, and I want to extend a personal take a moment and say, I see your work as extraordinary. I'm grateful to have had you as a guest on the show, and my goal is to spread your work far and wide. Book Congratulations. It's dropped. It's incredible, gorgeous. And, uh, yeah, there's a copy of your book in Seattle, and it's just thank you. It's already got some greasy fingerprints here, so that's the best compliment. I just want to say thank you for from our community and, uh, thank you for joining us. Congratulations on the work anywhere you'd steer us or how what's the best way? In addition to buying the book and especially, I want to speak to to the community here this week like Let's support Julia for, uh, for when we can to pick up a copy of her book. Doing so right when it comes out as always helpful for the authors. But where else would you steer us on the Internet? And we've talked about a couple of your different projects, but anything else that you could direct, you have to ask our I'll just quickly just I don't know that I have the right words, but just thank you for everything you just said. I just don't want to go without saying that it really means a lot to me. And I just value the thoughtfulness that you brought to this. You know, your questions in this conversation, and I really enjoy this. So just thank you. Um, this was really pleasurable. And, uh, that and, um, thank you about asking where to get the work. So yeah, buying the book is fantastic, you know, And I hope it's fantastic for you. I hope you got so much use out of it. I would say one of the best ways to support the work and the way that I would most love to be supported is to buy it from your local independent bookstore. Like bookstore owners are just, you know, anchors of communities. And it's so important to support them to please seek them out. And I think a really helpful thing to do for me for this book, but for any author is also just taking the minute to leave a review on places like Amazon. Even if you whether or not you buy the book there like that makes a huge difference. And I appreciate that. And yeah, where else to lead people? You can find everything about me and my work at I have a website. Julia Torshin dot com It's just my name. And I have a podcast as well, so you can find all that. They're, you know, like I love conversations like this. So if you want more of those so it's all there. Everything about the book. If you want a signed copy, you can get it there. It's all there. So the podcast keep calm and cook on. Yeah, I couldn't resist. It's awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time and for being for showing up for us here. We're trying to learn something about about cooking and food, and, uh, and the role it plays in a rich life. So appreciate you. I hope you have an amazing day. Congrats on the book and signing off for our community until next time with you. Yeah. Mhm. Mm. Yeah.