The First Shoot!
Uh, so what we're going to do here is a quick exercise of one of the most basic things, uh, that any, uh, documentary filmmaking crew will do, and I think it's safe to say that pretty much any filmmaker at some point, we'll interview someone and we're gonna walk for the first time, the students for the steps of working as a team, having specific tasks and a specific hierarchy. Um, they will learn to communicate, um, they're gonna hopefully make mistakes. Um and you, hopefully we'll hold back your criticism on the chatter and allow me to guide them through some of the key mistakes. I want them to make mistakes on purpose because it's, very easy when you run a workshop to make yourself a zone instructor looked good bye, spoon feeding everything to your audience. The problem with that is the moment they leave your workshop and they try to do it themselves. Uh, they were taught the way you did it, but they didn't learn the mistakes that you had to learn yourself in order to teach him how t...
o do it right, and we'll go ahead and miss start making mistakes and getting very frustrated, so the idea here is to give their first rai run is working together as a team. And so that when they come tomorrow they're better prepared for the challenges ahead tomorrow uh there'll be very little lecturing it's going to be almost entirely a day of a live shoot that's going to be documented uh here in this studio uh for almost the majority the day until we reached the postproduction part how this workshop in the afternoon without further do uh what we're gonna do today is we're going to interview quigg uh he is not a roadie that just comes on in front of the camera before we started section he's actually one of the masterminds behind uh this experiment that isn't turning out quite well over the past forty eight hours um he's going to talk about our creative lives for the purpose of her interview is to talk about why we're here we're gonna have christopher interviewing him and we're going to have cynthia right over here she's going to be our director um and we've only kind of like david out the different roles and we'll get to them one of the time um and this is very basic you've got a two camera interview with a third cameras well doing some fancy moves for some strange reason so cynthia um I would like you to talk to carson your first eighty your first assistant director about how you'd like to set the scene up and you're also gonna work with your dp that we do we pick a dp here we go dale there you go, eh? So the three of you are gonna talk amongst yourselves out loud as to how you'd like to set up the room first and how you going? You know, place things around and then we're going to take it step by step in terms of setting up camera setting up lights eventually dropping in ahh the interview e and the interview are and rolling away and seeing what happens so cynthia it's your show and you don't have to say that much you khun speak through carson or be very vocal okay carson I think that I got from, uh vincent's direction before that we ought to start by getting the let's get the chairs set up and then set up the cameras first and then we'll deal with the lighting second so let's get the cheers facing each other a little bit more cheating so that the, uh, chairs or cheated inward to each other and then I want to send the camera one camera on um I guess it would be what side you're the best taste left okay, I want to set up one camera on stage left and one camera on stage right on the opposite side so we'll we'll try that will make every mistake okay, so how about you want the other came over the other camera what I first start with the seats oh and you guys uh carson you're going to pick some volunteers to kind of help you thank you way cannot see what you are chatting about us don't yeah on about five feet apart that's looks good that's uh square away the cameras now okay that's grow the cameras and get uh do this camera aimed at uh let's give so uh we're going to put the intern way want the hero in the bigger chains a bigger chair okay so the hero will be over there you know which would be craig will be in the bigger chair okay and uh interviewer scott will be in the smaller chair so that means that the camera should move so it's pointing this way way get the camera moved out over to this position right yes please you wantto take over the positioning of the cameras so is sydney gale who's our dp and um I'd like to make a very simple comment is easier to move the chairs in the camera here with well the common I'd like to make and just keep in mind that not to block the only cover we have um did cynthia confer at all with the dp no in terms of visuals I did not uh it's much easier to move the chairs than it is to move all the camera lights around that not only because of moving things because you've got to really look at your background, don't you right? So, uh why don't you guys confer a little bit about what are some of things you might want to avoid and some things you want to include and why okay, if, uh heroes here yes. And if you want to put a camera here the nets are backroom okay? Yep. We don't want that because we want to clear not we want more of this nice would I think it's up to you we can do it either way so well what's the clean us what we wanna pick is the cleanest background you do the wood okay? What? Let's go for the wood, right? So I'm going to overrule you for the purposes of the class because our main camera for education is over there. We're going to use that background over here in this background. Okay? So we're not worried about it. Okay? All right, but you aren't worried about it. Don't worry about if I was doing it myself, I wouldn't have shot us front of the fish tank. Ok, but so would I, but we can't. Ok, alright, logistics end reality's uh, so, uh go ahead and, uh I want you you're gonna put where we're gonna put the two the two chairs first of all, this is a good setting right here. I think so I think so and I just want to and as obvious as this is to perhaps everyone here I'm not sure if this is obvious people that are watching uh this is one of the single most critical decisions you will ever make in that everything builds uh on a foundation the positioning of your two chairs the distance from one another and their relationship to the national environment uh is critical because you're gonna build pieces around this if you make a mistake now uh twenty minutes down the line um you're gonna be killing yourself so is this where you want the chairs I think we should flop the chairs ok ok can we swap the tour stop chairs is there a reason for that? Well I just want to put craig in the big chair I mean that crack stood over there well because he could I suppose but I just I like him thinks that his best okay, there you go. Good answer right? So that's why don't we just have the interview in the interview he's facing each other well, I think you want to cheat out toward the audience because you don't want someone looking what audience camera audience that doesn't exist that's for educational purposes the only audience you have right now are these two cameras and a third camera bringing later so where's your where's, your audience camera and it's going to be the cameras that are shooting this scene correct. So where do you wanna put him looking at you, pal? Okay, I think we're good here with the chairs I'd move the cameras back with longer lens with a longer lens on each lens are each camera okay um why is that uh all right. Why not shoot this with a twenty millimeter lens? Well, that subject is going to be smaller, you know going to include more of the no just bring the camera closer. That's true, I am trying to set you up. Ok, so why do you not want to shoot with a twenty four millimeter lands on an interview? Um generally because your field the view's much wider that's another reason distortion is number one no one looks good looks shot twenty four and number two um uh the field of view when used a wide angle lens you're going to see everything around that share where's the compress lands where we were talking about all this you're going to kind of try and eliminate and they're done your field of view. So I'll spare you the whole thing of shooting one of the twenty four and the other one hundred hopefully you guys can follow along ah, please never ever shoot interviews with wide angle lenses unless you absolutely have to it looks incredibly unflattering for just about anybody, so we're going to shoot with two long lenses and excuse me and they are what would you like to place the cameras that's probably one of the second most important um things you can do um I'm gonna take ownership on this one because so I would like one of the cameras on that side and the other camera on the opposite side okay, great. So that's going to be the role to positioning to each other it's probably a good idea let dale uh visually inspect that um so why don't you go ahead and aylin and kind of fine tune who is our first camera operator? Okay. And who is our second camera operator so why don't you come with this camera? Dale are you gonna go go ahead and move the cameras around I will let the camera operators move it exactly. Uh so why don't you go ahead and marcus um no you're cool marcus um why don't you go ahead and that place the cameras so have they got you need I'm sorry, geoffrey geoffrey once you come back bring it back here. Can we'll do a, um basically what the one thirty five on there that is one thirty five things coming from you beast you're shooting over the shoulder okay, okay uh probably about mid yeah, we talked you remember how we discussed about talking, you know about what we're gonna do and what type of camera I support you going to use uh stick stick so it's gonna be fixed? Are you going to move it or you're going to keep it locked off? We will lock this one down. Okay, so where exactly would you like the camera? Um all right. We're here okay on the floor. You want the camera on the floor? No, this sticks on the floor there. Where do you want the camera? Uh, camera high level. Okay, so camera all the way up here a level our level pointed down uh, point it down then. Where exactly are we talking about? You can't talk to you just got fired. Uh, terms of it's like a cowboy. You want cowboy okay? Or, uh, what's mid shot you're from waste medium shot mid teo uh here. Okay. Uh are anywhere and we want it to be able to push in to face if we need to. If the interview gets interesting. All right, so do you want a dolly to be able to push it in or you want a zoom lens? Assume? Well, actually, can we use like, a because the weather on the dollies, these new terms you learned today and so I want to be able to push in that implies that the camera is itself pushing, wishing if you're saying zooming in um and you got to realize this that your crew based on what you just said you're the professional you're the director if you say we're going to want to push in there going around around trying dolly ready for you so for the for today I think we should just zoom in how about we make our lives simple and used fix lenses six lengths okay all right just to save your little grief okay so we're going toe delegate this to dale for one second because I think you've determined the location dale I'd like you to tell your crew members exactly where you would like that camera b using as much of the languages we've learned today and communicating very precisely two people where you want the camera and how you want oriented okay jeffrey uh we'll take camera one here on the sticks uh right here and at eye level and a medium shot head shot to the hero okay um so one thing that you should try and stop doing um in general as a director of dp is pointing okay you khun give general direction but it really helps this is why you see all these directors do this and what not it's toe walk over here yourself and say jeffrey I would like that camera right here this is the hand is the camera this case eye level point it this way in this orientation uh with the lens jeffrey it's not his job to know whether you're shooting close up extremely that's your job to know what lens at this distance going to look good and one of the key points I'd like to make is that that problem requires quite a bit of skill on the dps part to know exactly what looks good with a hundred millimeter lens on a one day mark for where the one three conversion and exactly that framing and with a panavision camera that's heavy it's gonna take five ten twenty thirty minutes whatever it's gonna take the pain on the quality of the crew to set that camera up and changing is very heavy cameras is not an easy thing to do one of the most beautiful gifts that were given with these cameras is that you can have your own handheld camera an extra camera and as a dp instead of just randomly pointing why don't you take this camera look through the lens yourself with your own I were going to have to stand ins sit down across and you can go and do that for now uh you can start barking orders in a bit matthew sit over there and now dale as the dp look through the lens that you actually want to use and do what you've done as photographers if you are photographers for a lot of time and find that sweet spot and then when you get there physically stop the camera and say I want the camera right here way don't have enough crew members so the first camera operator will physically mark that spot right underneath the camera and take a measurement as to how high it isthe and physically set some really hard marks that you can't deviate from so why don't you go ahead and do that with this lens? Uh marcus can we get some tape for him please do not yet know so dale's mark vii the v is a symbol for the camera and like a lens and its orientation or the the angle the lens is pointing the direction in which it's going um can you go ahead and pick up the camera with your first day c and place its center exactly where they'll put it so we've spent twenty minutes marking on this spot our people are coming in any second and now dale and cynthia realize that their second spot is right where the tv is right ok so what are your options let's pretend that tv cannot be moved well way could move the camera around the other side but that's not um thank you uh no that's I think we wanted to keep it on this side really rather keep it so um let's see working removed so uh if you can't move it far enough want use a wider angle lens ok ok so go ahead and uh we're gonna go ahead grab twenty four to one on five for you um because both the hunter macro marcus twenty four one oh five please and uh dale you're gonna have to frame this one up really quick okay we're gonna get you the lens we've gotten past the point of no return we can start moving things now the interviewing people are coming in ten minutes but set it up for ten minutes wait twenty four one five okay he's got it they were gonna put on the camera eventually right so guys what are we talking about here wei need to make a small mathematical adjustment now you could make it okay or he's gonna be taller way need to come down nearly foot okay all right so why don't you go ahead and do that for the purpose of inefficiency dale you got thirty seconds to tell us where your camera okay yeah you consume in the one or five or going out yeah yeah right or or I moved to left and I get our uh our key light on this side in the frame all right let's pretend that the lights not there because that's really like just light us here let's just set your frame is cooking as you can there uh who is the first day see for this camera that jared jared you're gonna work with that tape measure and measure exactly want that that that lens right I'm gonna help you guys beat up a little bit who's my gaffer dale dale your dp he's the gap hasn't got a dp and he volunteered the two different jobs another mistake uh, andrew you've become our gaffer. Okay, dr mark no gafford like they're lighting, so get ready, okay, okay just told on you're on the sidelines while your thirty seconds of the laps that's gonna have to do all right, so we're going to use a slider right now we'll explain to you why we're using a slider a little bit later but they all can you can tell them what height and exact place you want that camera okay, we're gonna move this slider uh, right here and approximately this high okay, let's, move on. So the reason that a film crew has a hierarchy is so that as they're lining up the cameras the electrical team the gaffer should also be lighting up the lights in accordance. You can also see how dangerous it is when a director and dp don't really know what they're doing and are making mistakes that required the entire rest of the crew to sit around and sit wait around, sit on their hands. Okay, when you know what you're doing, you work these things out, you have a pre production meeting, you talk about these ideas, you scout the location and by the time you show up everyone knows what to do all right so right now while the second camera crew gets the camera ready andrew here our gaffer um and as part of your electrical crew uh we're gonna get some volunteers um come on in and, um you're going to be the cushion and andrew you're going to be the gaffer so pick a light this'll all right? So wait have no that doesn't count nor that that's your main light lawrence so andrew you're not handling the light that's lawrence's jump tell him where you're like the light I'd like to light carson's right side okay, right so you like to write eyes their problem and that the light is actually physically plug into an outlet longer need an extension cord you know there's a court hearing put fucking director should not be handling electrical wire's not your job it's dangerous you're a battery pack on that one. All right, so how about we switch this to battery packs were going kind of fast for the obvious for the obvious, which is that cables are big deal having the right outlets in the right position will save you a tremendous amount of times we're going to switch to battery power which you really cannot do with film crew back it off. Okay, right that was your and you with your second life here, okay, you're talking to he's talking to the camera and him yes facing each other for the face of the cameras. So where is everyone facing? Well, they should be facing the camera so this he's looking this way he's looking at that camp okay, get that andrew I know I don't understand like direction okay, great. So I'll put that like that when lawrence panel here matthew so in the same way you communicated with the camera I'd like the camera stationed here at x height, etcetera ploy tardes your seconds not that you're talking about. Okay, grace um well, fine tune the lighting in a second are both of these cameras live on the air? Wei have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, eight people on set and it's taken us thirty minutes to set up two cameras and two lights not a good sign. Whose job is that to keep that in order way hustle us up. Wait good on there. This camera so okay, that as a first a d going when you're in a rush and things are going well and someone tells you to hurry up because that tend to help you as opposed to say, how can I help you do your job? How can I help you make this work because you're running over schedule so you think I could do tow move that came around that's good let's go ahead and, um I'm going to save these people a little bit thank you trouble and I'm going to ask the two of you to look at each other and conduct a very basic interview carson to be here with you you doing today not bad enjoy the trip down here. So is this your first time you know, been here a couple times but, uh you know, a good coffee always uh brings me back so you love the cock let's go ahead and talk quickly about where the cameras were spaced one that actually diagonally space from one another right shooting at one another which creates lots of problems and that you shoot with another that is what you selected to do, right? Right, right. And that is what I asked you how you would set up a camera when you love you it's true. So there's two problems one as you're shooting into each other like crossfire and the second problem or talk about the second uh we're going to go ahead and switch to camera b there you go. Okay has a few things happening? People are looking off access. You have no idea they're interviewing each other and switch from a to b to a to b so go ahead mathew asked a question camera b carson, you are a coffee lover timer, eh? What is the best cup of coffee you ever had well I have to say is I like it just right and it's a half caf skim milk but with whole milk home extra hot chai latte camera a sow would you consider yourself a coffee connoisseur? Uh nope if it's brown and warm I like it I hope that besides witnessing one of the worst train wrecks I've ever that you're picking up on the fact that these two people above looking in opposite directions did you got yeah it's pretty funny except that we wasted thirty five minutes of time and effectively the director would be replaced on the spot by the producer thank you. The dp would also be sacked and you'd now have someone getting promoted very quickly. Um this is a one of the most basic fundamental rules in filmmaking it's called either the one eighty rule for crossing the line what you need to do when you have an interview it's a draw a straight line between both subjects thie cameras must always be on the same side of that line so if there to the left of this person they're going to the right of the other person on the same side of an imaginary line drawn between both faces the moment the camera crosses the line you enter this really horrible zone of torture now keep in mind that rules are very simple rule in terms of interviews correct right it's also important in every camera move that you will do from now on as the camera moves a steady camera across the room when you cross that line you better keep that in mind because you saw what happened on the live broadcast there he was epic disaster of disastrous proportions all right so now we're going to go ahead and pick camera b and place it on the same side of the line uh am I thinking this through with uh whatever we'll get pick out camera three in the second so let's go ahead and move that over weii now need to have the gaffer move that light to a different location. Damn whose cat burglar we get this uh, booth cameraman yeah okay so okay uh somebody cynthia you've just been downgraded to gaffer so if you could come the other side which which which side over over here. Okay, okay forget about it and so far from color temperature they actually get anything recorded today would be a miracle um so you now have two lights on the opposite side, right? Okay, great. Uh we're not, um all right let's move along and, uh, realign the cameras will quickly as you'll notice where you placed the camera's gonna have a big effect on how these people look like when they're facing each other it sometimes helps to keep the shoulder of the other person in the frame so you have no idea of the relationship between the two depends on your style uh in this case I've kind of lost um uh everything um let's go ahead and uh go ahead and cycle from you set with camera and be there great let's switch to camera b perfect way we're focused on the wrong person okay let's zoom in front of there you go perfect okay uh now let's go ahead and uh punch back out and uh let's go ahead and uh do the same question and answer thing back and forth ready alright carson coffee lover do you ever make coffee at home? Uh yes ideo prefer toe crying the coffee use a french press for you uh caffeine decaf uh normally first couple cups of the day I do of course caffeinated because why bother? Uh but if I drink a couple pots ok better relatively better please we have the cameras on the same side how's our composition way don't have one now you're the you're the dp do you like those frightened those uh if you if you were a portrait artist uh and that's what you were going to put on the front page of the new york times how do you like that frame from that shop? Let's go ahead and switch the camera be that a nice frame will step out of it we're so far beyond that right now yes I'll go ahead let's uh let's forget all the rules and just try and get this in the bag and the next five minutes that's better isn't it already? Okay let's switch the camera a um not bad you'll notice that you're keeping the subject's uh off to one side of the frame not centering them that way as you switch back and forth uh you have a better idea they're communicating together we're going to quickly introduce a third camera which is a terrible idea given how we're doing we're goingto enter camera c which is house is really frightening uh entering and jib into the situation marcus why don't you save us all a lot of grief uh if you're still around come on in um and why don't you talk to us about where you would want to or would not want to put the jib in terms of crossing the line or not for the third camera on this interview set up on that side why is that? Because if you put it over here you're looking past him okay across the line across the wife never cross the line okay, I couldn't do that example but we just don't have time so why don't you guys go ahead and put the chip so that the head is over there want you help him out marcus what is the purpose of that third camera perspective it's an mtv interview. It's that master shot it's the shot that establishes that these two people you are not speaking from moscow and new york city to one another that they're actually in the same room. It's the establishing shot. They give you a sense of place, right? So while they do that, uh, we're going to go ahead and get ready to the interview. Let's, talk about a little bit about the lighting. How could I have my gaffer? Um, you realize that you are basically backlighting? Both your subjects was sending them across. Well, what happened? This camera. Okay. Good. Well, we're going back in time. All right. Um all right. I guess you could do it. I would probably suggest that this light try to overpower a little bit in the background. The first place. Okay. And go ahead, do that as well. There you will notice that. Is that camera on that side is not going to shoot straight into your light? Correct. Okay, uh, gaffer, uh, is this is light coming from eye level flattering or perhaps his light, always coming from above. Flattering. Okay, cool. Um, in general, when you have a light source coming from below, that is how you make a horror film in hollywood because light comes from below light coming from above almost is almost always significantly more flattering you won't go much beyond that at this point it's just like ok, you will notice now that having that white background the back is related um and what we can do to quickly fix that it's perhaps just really quickly with the camera forward you want tohave the cameron generally is close to if you switch to camera one uh the eye line of your interviewer and you could notice that if we switch back the camera that exact same background now look significantly better correct we're shooting significant tighter this one's good to go for our purposes what do you guys think of that shot it's not it's horribly distorted? Um having a jib arm that close your interview subjects is kind of disasters given how well things were going. So we're just going to go ahead and kill this one altogether. So go ahead and remove that out of the frame, blake but then I just have a quick question and from the chat is could you just tell everybody witch model which camera is which that you're using uh that's a five d mark to camera b camera a's and one d mark for and camera c which is no longer part of the picture was also anymore for thank you okay we're gonna go ahead and quickly add uh two more lights very talk he's will be fill lights on you can see how camera a actually maybe I'm sorry would bring the other light panel over here is well right there we're gonna use these as two very quick fill lights if you switch to camera b you'll see that matthew right there has a very harsh shadow if you hold his hand there um you can see more of a reflection just off of his hand alone and that's where if you don't have a secondary like you's a bounce card or a piece of styrofoam or a whiteboard uh it's a much easier way to do this okay there you go. I'm gonna go ahead and step in here real quick so we can get this going you can see feel like that's too much feel like two little look straightforward that thea there you go where there is a little bit of an accent all right with and without fill light switch the camera a no so I had them down okay same thing with the light right there just a little catch light in the eye all right, that is the end of our camera set up now let's really quickly run through a shooting interview okay, what we need is the uh interviewer taking his place and we need craig the interviewee taking his place as well one of the wonderful things toe have done would have been to realize the height of both people prior to having standing sit and take their place okay let's see what happened which had the camera if you will not bad camera b okay, you can look at each other real quick perfect. Okay, um let's go ahead and have the first a d take over from now um we're gonna have dale switch from being the dp now tio doing the slate and we're going to spare us the concept of doing sound uh because you're doing it you got it, matthew matthew uh you'll notice that both gentlemen already laughed so they should be taken care of in terms of sound you've got another technician right there with a boom mic if you go back to camera one testing one, two, three, four and if you go back to camera one on a wide shot you'll notice that matthew can go ahead with this boom and go from one person to the other by rotating the boom. Okay, is that what you have to parts of audio on that means that if the labs were to fail or get interference you have a backup. I want to make sure that someone takes a quick last look at the frame is that a good frame? All right, so how about we tilt the camera down slightly wait. Right, right. Obviously, the fact that he's so much small in the frame is an issue. Let's. Quickly, pick that up. Move it closer for ready to roll. Let's. Have a director. Um get things ready and let's roll cameras quiet on set camera rule. Uh, it would be helpful to roll the camera. Craig, interview slate. Okay, so we're gonna slate camera b slate. Okay. And cynthia get the honors acting a fool one hour from the time we started its exercise. I'm talking with craig. Uh, wait a chance. Coming here today. I'm talking with greg swanson he's, one of the creative masterminds of creative live. So hi, craig. How you doing today? I'll tell us a little bit about creative live. What is it? Well, you're experiencing crave life to some extent right now, but creative life is an online worldwide training classroom. We're broadcasting classes on all shapes and sizes and there's a lot of moving pieces to this place. So how long have you been doing? Creative lives. Way started. My company started working in training for about four years ago and basically spent about four years tweaking the model. Just trying different approaches really struggle. What you guys can hear right now is a garbage truck backing up uh, in a real interview, he would have to cut the internet. There's actually, no way of doing all this entire process we've done with cameras going, but the slates had to start from scratch with new slates. New rolling sound, new ruling, two cameras, in fact, three cars that we had it, uh, again, you know, considerations you have for our purposes, we're going keep rolling through it. But I want to give you an idea of kind of how this thing gets more and more and more complex as you go and just keep, uh, keep going quick, what's the vision of creative life. What are you trying to accomplish with it? Well, chase services spoke about the democratization of creativity and about production. Basically, we're entering a new world where thie tools of being able to communicate all the barriers are breaking down and there's. A lot of people that don't have access to some of the really great information that has been kind of kept in in one place. You know what is happening right here is. It used to used to take a trip across the united states, a dedicated weekend thousands of dollars to get the type of information that we're getting today and here. It's just being broadcast freely across the entire planet. We've got people participating from australia, new mexico, new zealand, all well, I guess I'm can't picking just united states in australia, but all over the appointment and it's really exciting. Give us some idea of the breath of the classes that you offer way are covering all sorts of creative topics, from software programming to traditional computer graphics software like photoshopped and illustrator to traditional fine art watercolor painting, and I'm sure I'll be doing the acrylics know things like that, including a huge number of classes in photography and other related visual arts, will be coming in with video editing and all sorts of other classes as they come up. So let me try your mc uh, these two gentlemen are actually in a really good job of being an interviewer, interviewee and some quick tips if there are mistakes made in terms of what someone says, just go ahead and ask the question a second time, just keep going. Um you know, it's quite a natural with this he's very relaxed he's got the answers down. Most people that you're going to interview are gonna could never have done this before, and you can imagine how intimidating this setup is all these people around them and, uh, you know, chris's job is to try and put him at ease, uh, to make us go smoothly and one of the most important piece of information I can give you if you're interviewing someone, just ask one question at a time one thing that I see people do time and time again it say, okay, so I'd like you to tell me about where you were born and what happened the year you were born. I'd like to tell me about the city you were at and they were going to transfer over, and we're going to some really big words to confuse the person we're interviewing because they're trying to analyze the big word. You just used a sort of communicating very clearly concisely, and when you're done with that, I want you to relate how that relates to point a because eventually we're going to talk about point b and then when we're done with that, we're gonna jump over to point e in reference to point c and that can happen and what happens? You'll see the person being interviewed you'll see it on camera gets so absolutely overwhelmed because they're trying to keep track of what the first question was and we're onto question seven or eight do one question at a time go through it don't forget that all this, uh, lives due to the power of editing I think we've done a good job uh, you know, salvaging something out of this and I think we you know, I think we've done probably as good of a job as you possibly could to illustrate how difficult this is how a simple interview with two people sitting down could become very, very difficult for a team that's never worked together uh for people they've never done these jobs and how much dressed this is you know, dale, I saw you a few times look pretty stressed out weii did not look like you were having fun, right? Just suddenly not very fun, cynthia uh, you look like you want to hide somewhere in a few points as well, yeah, and suddenly you realize this is a job it's a craft that you learn and, uh it's ah it's something to be respected and, um, I think you all saw live how things can go terribly wrong how important isto have teams working simultaneously, albeit in order you can't start lighting something unless you've picked the camera angles you can't pick a camera angle unless you've chosen where to put the seats and the actors you can't do that unless you've taken, uh look around the environment and try to predict a few steps ahead of time what's gonna happen when you press camera angles so we'd have ah lot more discussion beforehand between the director and the dp on how this interview is going to go and then some simple single worst that can happen is a director who made a simple mistake that you know they crossed the line they allowed the cameras to cross that line and from the very beginning the entire interview was absolutely doomed to failure and um I think I don't think we could have been a better example of how that can all go wrong. It's six o five uh thank you very much for coming in and watching us implode and uh we will come back tomorrow with the entire crew members or serious of crew members here the students having experienced what abject failure feels like uh as a team and understanding how important it is to talk about these things ahead of time so that when you're on set everyone has a better chance of working together effectively pulling something off that forget about getting an interview in the can barely got this going how about a creative film? How about a film that actually has uh some sort of cinema and cinematic language to it right now we're just trying to desperately get er two cameras shooting simultaneously with two people talking so you can start to understand the complexity of this and uh for some of you may have seen this gun oh my god there really is a lot to learn and it really isn't as easy it looks so with that said I think it's been a really interesting day uh we've ended on a difficult note as a team but tomorrow we have the chance to teo bring this right back and show that with a little more pre planning and forethought I could go up onward and upward so let's open this up tio uh the shadows fear well first we have to excellent comments on his creative life has done a great job of making us feel like a part of the studio idea so uh people are really excited about it uh specifically prevents that the chat room wants to know how you would have spent how you would have let this scene um you know there were so many other fires to put out that I've really got to think about it uh what you have to go back to is you have to look at people's faces uh this is like basic lighting technique ah model with perfect lines could be lit and pretty much anyway and look beautiful on older person with you know, harsh lines in their face it takes a bit more time, toe light them carefully and you have to learn on how exactly to position the lights. Uh, teo, make someone, uh, look a bit better on camera that's part of an art form for people they're a little bit more heavyset. Um it's a good idea. The light half of their face from the side because you only see half of their face. They look a little bit slimmer, whereas if you like them from the front, you can see the entirety of their larger than normal face for people with really long noses light from above could be a bad idea because it's going to cast a big shadow beneath that nose in the same way that people with very sunken in eyes uh lighting from above could be very dangerous. What? They looked like chipmunks so you'll learn to study light if there's one basic really should take away is never, ever light someone from below because they look like they're from the goonies uh at most, a lower light should be nothing more than a film like so kind of a follow up to that is a rule similar to the one eighty rule for lighting in other words, stood the hot side of the face will always be the same for both people um originally it was lit where one person was hot on one side and the other I'm so tired right now but actually thinking that through is one of the most difficult things I've been asking my entire life and the answer is yes okay. Yes, yes and uh another question from the chat room when you do you also dp when you direct so this person has worked with some dps who do both I mean, depending on the size of the crew ah, you could be the director dp camera operator first assistant and sound technician uh on average on a crew uh you do not have the person doing both because as you can see, there a wide variety of challenges that being seven and commercial world it's actually pretty common it's called a director cameraman um and that's kind of ah, a title that's adopted for people that are very visual uh that do both. One of the questions from the chat room that kept coming up is why did you cut with the truck noise as opposed to just pausing the interview and then continuing on after the truck noise that was actually a big rookie mistake? The reason I did it was to try and, uh bring that to the attention, but I don't think most people in the audience could hear the truck going on because we've got this place pretty well might but on almost any interview of that they're commissioner comes on or truck a garbage truck outside cause everyone will cut the interview pausing would absolutely work but er you could hold an interview, but most of time you just cut because to roll again with the average camcorder is just a matter of pushing a button and the editor has a clean take to go back to there's no slating there's no camera speed sound speed it's just you know ok cut wait for the sound of suspend and roll again is one but you're pushing twice in a row in this case with two or three cameras two to three buttons it's not a big deal when you get this more cinema setting where you're working with cameras that were not intended to do this I don't have time code um you know you know you need slates and it gets quite a bit more complicated which is why when people ask me is the cannon five d mark two or the hd solares in general the single best camera to use today to do interviews? I say not really it's probably much better to do something with the camcorders that we're shooting us this series with right now can you shoot an interview like this is from chat room uh using only one camera and kind of basically how would you do that? Yeah if you only had one camera you would basically cheat and you could do one of two things you can have interview where you have one angle and you can see both people in it not the most flattering that's the simplest way of doing it uh two you can shoot it over the shoulder shot where you can appreciate the person asking the question you can see they're outline and kind of cheap things a little bit so you can see a bit more of both people or you can go all the way back and shoot uh all the syriza questions from one angle and then shoot the interview all over again from the other angle of the same camera uh and people do that all the time. Not everyone has to entire camera systems to go on do this with and I this is kind of in chat room we still have some folks asking about backlighting and there's not really a specific question, but can you talk to backlighting in that scenario? Um I mean, at that point you can understand that uh backlight is when the light is behind someone and get rim light and you get silhouettes uh, an interview probably is not the correct environment to be doing creative lighting uh that's more drama and in terms of an interview you just want to have light that's flattering to the person that's consistent and that, frankly is not a factor um you don't want the time that the interview leans forward for them to fall completely into shadow for backward um, so you want to keep it simple as you saw, you really want to keep things quite simple so that you could keep moving along and likewise, I would think that with the twelve minute limit, it might be hard to create a cover for free for a nephew depend who you're interviewing, what the topic is if you have to keep it breaking up in a section to keep reminding some of their being interviewed as opposed to having a conversation it's almost uncanny. How during a long interview ten to twelve minutes seems to be the really perfect time where people start to really talk to the camera and forget they're being interviewed and that's. Why about twelve minute limit? I can absolutely be a killer. Um, interviews are all about drawing things out of someone don't forget this was an easy interview this's a willing person who's sitting down who wants to be interviewed, who wants to promote creative life when this is a very conflicting interview where someone is trying to catch someone in an ally or put them, you know, in a corner um you can't have issues with technique, you know you can't interfere with that mood and it's not uncommon to be given one or two minutes with the president united states for one question and the crew better nail it because there's no telling mr obama, can you please stay here where you were out of focus? Not an option. Yes. Steel k b in the chat room is identified themselves as a young photographer and they want to know should they spend efforts on, you know, kind of honing their still skills before moving into video? Or should they, um, in a pillow track work on the video as well? Uh, there's no way you could never fault someone for holding the skills first before the transition to someone else. Um, you know, it's it's best to be the master of one thing than master of lot of other many nothing's, um and or not master of many things. And the point is that in general, I would always recommend that you do one thing at a time and do it well, uh, that being said, given the way things were changing, how fast they are changing today, uh, I might recommend doing something a little bit more parallel given the changing landscape of this business way had some questions and talking about the twelve minute cut off in the chat about what do you do at that point? Do you have to wait five minutes, hit record again and take you know right on and have you lost anything you've lost that period of time and went off to the period hit record again uh which could be right in the middle of a line the best line of the day and we have ah for whatever reason we've got an hour and fifteen minute limit on our multi track recorder and you'll know sometimes during the classes I'd walk over and I tried to get you guys to take a breather for a moment and sometimes if we're in a role we would just go ahead and lose it and not want to disrupt the class so how do you know uh other than just experience when you have enough coverage and when when you know when to quit that's what they pay you the big bucks for because filming is all about resource management um the more time you take to get that coverage uh the more expensive it gets and if you're a very fast and efficient and good director you're going to be in very high demand no one likes directors that to twenty thirty takes on every single shot same goes with actors if the actor cannot get their line uh you know I've had I won't name them but I've had some gps tell me that work on a big television shows that their pride themselves not television shows and having actors come in and nail the line on the first take if that actor comes in and fumbles or forgets their lines, the entire crew gives in the really nasty stare like this is not the way we jive this's you know, high end network television and you better come prepared and I don't think you'll have, you know, first day see say anything to that an actor coming in but they'll feel it you know, uh you're amongst a serious of professionals and no one has time to wait for someone to learn their lines on set, let alone director learn their job on set and that's why? I think you should be very comfortable and not knowing this stuff and going out and practicing that's the beauty of all this we've made all the mistakes in front of you plenty more than we wanted to in this example, but you've witnessed it and you now know how much there is for you all to learn in practice. So don't wait to shoot your very first interview on a real job or a real story you're working on and realise you forgot to add audio or it's not sinking or some very rookie mistake was made interviewer parents in every year roommate uh interview anyone that has enough time to basically say, you know what doesn't work out it's not a big deal and that's when you want to learn you really don't want to learn on the job and that's kind of what I'm going back to the first day as a photographer you do not learn on job you go out, pick up your camera and walk around and make mistakes and every once in a while you make a good image of filmmaking uh does absolutely involves that of course but uh it's a lot harder to learn on the job when three four, five or six or ten people are watching your every move uh people you know breakdown on tv sets and movie sets because they can't take the pressure they are very well aware that they've made a mistake and there's nothing worse than knowing that everyone around you is much more aware than you've made that mistake and sometimes says the humor is a great way of shrugging it out saying up it was likely one of the stupidest things I've done all year let's go ahead and fix that and uh good attitude never hurts I think I have a question that can wrap it up uh someone wants to know how you present your real to um clients uh it depends on you know whether or not you have an agent uh sometimes clients will call in er not anymore they don't you know ship of vhs tape anymore do you? Everything is online and generally just as simple as giving me a website having section there that has that shows you're real and the work that you've done and uh because of the internet that's gotten to become a much more streamlined process and do you have an agent for your commercial work I do and uh I am working on some other stuff and then that round but um that's you know, one of the first steps you want to make if you're going into the high end uh you know, commercial work but if you're just starting off you don't need to have an agent at first um it's important for us is you know what every student in turn and young person realizes is the hardest part is that you have to get some work to be able to get the rial and the problem is you can't get the work because you don't have the rial and that's something we've all faced and you just hit that wall and you keep pushing and pushing and pushing and uh maybe you don't aim for the high end jobs at first you don't walk up on the new york times near sixteen and say can I work for you? Maybe you work for your high school paper and learn on learn their and start building your portfolio at a more appropriate place and if you're not quite good enough to work at that newspaper or that you know television station or uh whatever it is you're using to broadcast uh you start by interviewing uh your friend and just start small all right? Thanks, thanks very much, everybody. Well, it's, been fun. I've been making my own notes on what we're gonna need to change in the overarching recording in order, be able to capture tomorrow's event, because it would be similar to this one in terms of, uh, format. Yes, and, uh, we'll see you all tomorrow. Bright and early at nine a, m and, uh, thank you very much for making this possible for everyone here. Thanks.