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Large Sensor Class

what sets these apart from other compact cameras that we talked about earlier? Well, the biggest thing is they don't have zooms. Okay, so they've got nice big senses. This is a PSC in the Sony Rx one all here as a full frame sensors actually inside it every second. But they have fixed lens is okay, so, you know, they are not as flexible as a zoom camera for that reason, but they have other advantages. The biggest one is they are still very small and compact, especially in the case of impressive design. Sony. But they have really big senses in the great in low light from tens of image policy. Really, really nice. Can Mr Views so, to an extent, least, these air closely related to mirror less cameras as they are to conventional compacts we talked about earlier. You can't take the lens off, but as Bonnie says, you know much bigger sensors. Actually, cannon makes one with a zoom lens. The GX Well, that's right. Yes, be out. But for the most part, they offer a single focal length lens, which...

you know has its advantages and disadvantages. It means the camera could be small but it does mean you. You know, you're stuck with one focal length. You decided you wanted onder the most. Partly the options are there are a couple of models with 28 millimeter equivalent lenses at this, Rico G R. And then there are a couple with 35 million of these diseases. Those two. That was kind of a 30 year gap in development of cameras like this. Starting here. Get well? Yeah, in the film days, you know, you have Olympus Siri's and they had they had nice 35 mil nine lenses on, but they didn't do. Seems it didn't do much else, but they were very small. They're very discreet, crucially. And they had they took full film in most cases so that nothing really happened. But now you get these. There's a lot of movement now in this class. You know, Fujifilm came out of the X 18 months ago, two years ago, Onda. They've just come out of the 100 s here on this year, which improves it in myriad different ways. It's only going on the game with the Rx warning on the youngest one are on day. I mean, recovery. Actually be making really good fix sensor compacts for a long time, but with smaller senses? Yeah, So for for many years we have made the grd Siri's, which have always had the same side sensors as the infusion compacts we spoke about earlier this year, they released the G R, which is essentially the same size as those cameras, and yet they've managed to fit on a PSC sensor in here. It's quite astonishing piece of engineering. Even with the lens extended, it's really not a very big camera. And can you hold it up? Maybe next to the other compact? So even even compared to something like the, uh, Sony Rx 100 it really isn't that much bigger. The sensors percentage bigger ish, a BSC vs significant any respect about 2.7 times larger off the top. So Nick on also produced a model very much like this. Also 28 mil equivalent of 2.8 lens through the Coolpix A. In fact, the two of them go head to head in almost every specifications we found. The Rico's lends his tiny bit sharper corners. It's still got one of our favorite control systems of any enthusiast camera way. Just Finally, the Rico just edged the nickel in almost every respect, including price, which is important. What is the price range we're talking about here? Well, this is around $800. Yeah, that's the higher up. I mean, really, Typically, with all these things, you pay more for bigger sensors. So the iris, when our is very costly compared to the others, this is almost $3000. Okay, About £2000 of your in the UK andan. The future for makes 100 s and the core picks a there about 1100 $100. Okay. And so again, what? What? You're paying that much more money for the bigger sensor size. In this case? Yes. It's a beautiful lens as well. Okay, on that Does that does cost a lot of money because it's got to cover a larger emerging area. It's a beautiful, quiet, discreet cameras, a lot of fun to use. It's not quite as nice and low light as the Fujifilm. It's safe systems just not quite as accurate in your light. But you know, is a traveling everyday camera. This thing really is really is beautiful. It's just a lot of money, but you get what you pay for. So we're talking about later, we're gonna be talking with the John Gringo about the different scenarios that you might use thes different cameras for. But would you kind of categorize these in the street photography? Think something? Yeah, definitely candid in social stuff. Yeah, Quiet. They're discreet because they're nice and small. Their cameras you can have with you at all times, which means they were great. I have a next 100 myself, which I used just to really just to document my life for my own interest because creepy. Very interesting. You can't see pictures every day. I have the same camera and I really do love it. Um, we should probably give credit to Sigma who were really innovators in sector. They were the first company to really put on a PSC size camp sensor into a relatively small body with a fixed lens. They make three models worth considering. We're not huge fans of their sensor technology, so I think most people will be better served with a more conventional model, I think a new ones that saying from an enthusiast point of view their senses. Their senses are not as user friendly, perhaps a small conventional technology. We don't need to go into the differences, but I mean, there are people who really do live and die by these cameras that they do produce fantastic images. But they're just not as user friendly as the models higher up. And how would you categorize that person who lives and dies? Just people who need really, really, really good color resolution, which is a complicated subject before reading to get into. But they do some things incredibly well, and if you want to get into that, you can just go to DP Review right? There's a conversation going on many active forms, things that disgust so rich is quite right. Sigma did really pioneer this. Fujifilm popularized it, and here we are. Fantastic. So what again? Let's go through to the different ones in this category and what you recommend. Well, I think really, it splits itself down by focal length. If you like shooting quite wide angle, you're gonna want to go with one of the 28 mil equivalent models. So that's the Sigma D P. One m. The Rico gr Coolpix A As I said earlier, I think really the GRS would jail would be our choice to use. I've seen people ask whether you buy this or or the next 100 s. I think because of the different focal lengths, I think you're either going to be a 35 mil shooter. We're gonna be a 28 shoes. I would agree with that. I mean, one of the reasons I like this investment. This is actually one I've been carrying around for ages. Start drugs. I can't wait to get off. But you know, the one reasons I like this so much is that there is a very high quality lens adapter. You can get to go with it, which turns it into a millimeters lens. It's much bigger and heavier at that point in the Rico, so you do lose that advantage. But you know, it's not stuck a 35 mil. And that's true or not true. 28. Yes, that is actually no, it's minimal. Equipment on the X 100 s also has thesis aim lovely hybrids. If I start with none of the others offer on, it's a beautiful find it very high resolutions, which is doing optical electronic view and less than a second. It's It's a really, really nice experience. You don't have to do that all the time. You can use the camera to your right. You can get next when I find out for Sony. But at that point, the entire camera packages really increasing in cost. Okay? Plus it does have a lot of Volcker's with Fujifilm. That's all bills is there? Yeah, you really have to experience that. You find her to understand, literally like a heads up display. If you've ever seen one of those, Have you ever been in a jet? It's basically a mirror in their that allows the LCD to project an image on to So you're actually looking through and you see this projected image on the screen. It's really, really smart. And then you switch to a fully right in front of you with the flick of The switch has a lot of advantages, and when you get used to it and the effect really is luxurious and you just deliver the camera like I do guys around every day, Alright, awesome. Well, I think it's time to move on to our last category of our round up. So we're gonna talk about. Fortunately, this is a really small category U s. So tell me what you mean by this category. First, the enthusiast full frame. So the busiest full frame is a new category because it used to be dominated by $3000 cameras like the d 800. Did you end up? I mean, Teoh. Exactly. So full frame is finally coming down. We always kind of been predicting that it would be coming down to a more affordable rate. And so, you know, Nikon and Canon both produced models two D 600 and now the D 6 10 and Cannons came out last year, and now Sony has added the A seven and a seven are to the mix two and $3000 which doesnt, which is a lot of my still a lot of money. Yes, and really the tomb back. The Nikon and Canon have come down to 1700. I think in that in that range, which has gotten more affordable than you know, Sonny's new camera, is it Is it the two prices we have our make it 16 99 for the A seven. And then this one is, Yeah, anything that's ways just to briefly, I guess Jumper had. The other thing is that is that you end up having to buy a lens with it because it's not an existing lens range. That's true so that the cameras are a fraction to $2000. I think in both cases, maybe they said you're gonna have to violence with it. That doesn't play the price. That's a good point. Yeah, Christy didn't then mirror. This is the big difference here. Well, in the fact that it's mirror list makes it easier to use adapters with it right as well. And so you can use a lot of people are very, very excited about using the lenses that they have already order some hobby lens that they think is really cool. So, like see, is like, really, really going to start using their life on something halfway affordable, avoid long tires, another another really popular thing to use. So as you can see there, there's no mirror in there that's very, very large sensor that's almost too big for the mount itself. So the advantages of full frame. Richard. I'm really just as we've been saying all along, there is really very little substitute for having a very large center. And if you compare the A P S C sensor in refugee film to the full frame sensor that basically the differences image policy on price, I need you get different depth of field quality changes as well. If you put a really fast prime lens on a full frame sensors do you get much better ability to blow backgrounds, Not a big deal all the time. That can really help the portrait. It's only introduced to cameras at once, so the A seven is a 24 megapixel on, you know, lots of light gathering capability, really good high eso performance. And the A seven R is 33 36 33 game. It's a reverse the same or very similar sensor to the Nikon D. 100 a round in the Exactly. I want to ask a question about Sean. You said that that with the Marylise, once people are excited to be able to, it's easier Teoh to use different lenses than the DSL ours just because they make more adapters Or why is it that it's easy? It's easier to make an adapter for that because normally for a full frame, the limbs would be mounted out here. So there's room to build an adapter that can work with more merit will be there. There's no mirror now. So so, so need has had to design the lens, especially to work with the fact of the back flanks. Distance shorter, back Flash's distance. So that's, you know, that's really the advantage. And that's what people are getting sizes by you. Even five years ago, when the first anyhow scam was much smaller, senses it. Yeah, you could just get some cheap but absolute and put your old like a lenses or year old contact centers or whatever you want. And that's true of almost all of the mirror list mouth. Even the US am actually just to call the outrage briefly can and does have a mirrors camera on. It's been out for a little while very small lens range, and they're not really sure what they're doing with it is the feeling I get. But even for that camera, you can get adapters to put anything you want on it. It's got a great sensor. So people do that. Did you pass us the D 6 10? Yes. So the size difference is really quite pronounced. This is but by far the smallest full frame interchangeable lens camera we've seen. Well, if you exclude the like m serious, which cost eye watering But even even even if you're not yet willing to dio Marylise And this was mentioned there rash out, there were only a couple of lenses for the soldiers. So far, both Nikon and Canon make comparatively affordable full frame models. So this is the D 6 Canada then makes the and they offer a very similar feature set to the cameras. We looked at earlier things like D 7100 on the d, but with that larger sensor, so that's what you're getting for the extra money. So still, lots of external control. Uh, LCD, yeah. No, not quite the same build quality is maybe the G of the Canon five D mark three. But you're getting an awful lot of camera for a price tag that you used to. You used to only get in a PSC camera for So we've seen a lot of interested in cameras both the conventional SLR on the perilous and the reason they anyone I called full frame the Holy Grail for Matt on. The reason for that is that it's the same form as a piece of 35 mil film. So the reason that was hugely important for people kind of a historic interest now. But if you had lenses for an SLR for Phil Mesilla and you put them on a dish less allow, there was a PSC Former, you get the crop factor, your foot becomes a 35 mil. Your prenatal becomes of 35. There is a full friend. Disallow means you get your focal lengths, backs your wide angles wide again, right Crop factor Wonder one. Yeah. So that was always the reason why people were like, Oh, I'm gonna wait from the frame right there for years and years and years And now it's suddenly come. It's finally come down in price. These less than $ body only still a lot of money, but it's acolyte less than it waas. Great. So any anything else within within this range are we talking about So again, we've got both mere lists and DSLR. Yes, it's fantastic. So who Who is this camera for? I think it really, To be honest, I think you'd agree. It's the It's the people that we were talking before We really know what they're doing. I want to take complete control, have a little more disposable income. Let's face it. Yeah, but also perhaps have some older legacy lenses from from I mean, certainly if they're Nikon Canon shooters who got lenses which are designed for full frame that they've always lost that Kat factor to four and yeah, I always want better record. So you know, they are still we do still give better images. Yeah, being able to get that lovely, shallow depth of field that you get with with full frame in a fast prime. Um, it's just fantastic when you when you look at your photo on the screen just after you shot it on. Even even on the small screen, you can see the effect of that. That shallow depth of field on the photos just look nice on you. Just lose that progressively as you go down Sensor size. Okay. What would you say, then is we talk about the sensor being the biggest impact on the image quality. But right, talk to me about buying, um, the body and versus the lens. And when you're gonna focus on in this category spending money on the body versus the lenses, that's really good point. I mean, the Sony Lenses air fairly extensive now, and a lot of the full frame lenses even the later lenses that are being introduced recently from Nikon Canon are fairly high as well. So costs are going up. I mean, you definitely want higher quality optics, so it's gonna cost a little bit more with full frame to You can use old legacy lenses, but there's definitely a little bit more. That's a really good point. Actually, we told about this constituency of people who have lenses from film days. You know, they might get a bit of a nasty surprise when they put him on a 24 or 36 megapixel camera because they were never designed for that kind of resolution. Eso You know, the lenses that are coming out now, the zooms and primes for full frame cameras. A lot of people out there complaining. They're very pricey, and they are very pricey. But they have to deliver so much higher resolution maybe in the past. But with the with these slightly more affordable, affordable models popularizing full frame again, companies like Sigma have started to produce produce more affordable lenses, so signal produced it 24 to 105 gotten 35 mil F one point form. They're still not cheap, but they're often cheaper than the manufacturer's own lenses. And some excellent quality lenses in quality always, always costs more. But which is going right? Is the eyes. The former becomes more popular. We'll see people throwing lenses into the space because when you're when you're using the full frame that you have to use a full frame capable lens, right versus toilet tissue. Perfect way. Don't really want beginning. This is a heavy lends a lot of glass in that right. It's yeah, it's pricey, and it's it's a beautiful quality putting. I don't really envy the manufacturers, really. They challenged by the megapixel race resolution, now far exceeds film, so lenses for film look not so great compared to what they're having to produce today. Prime is not so not so much a problem. It certainly some of the zooms that would be perfectly happy with on film. Put on on a modern digital camera and get a nasty surprise. You look at the pictures. That's really great point to consider. Awesome. Well, any any other considerations for this final product round up. And before we move on to the next section, we're gonna take a couple of questions. But any final words, anything I would say it's affordable, affordable full frame is that this is one of those segments where you spend the money on the camera driving a little less and the camera there under $2000 now body only. So you spend it, find a camera that rose view, and then spend the money you save on exactly. That's great compared to the problem of the higher instead. Great. Well, for those of you who might just be joining us here, this is a glow. There's a global audience that is watching us. There is a chat room that folks have been in, and if you're just joining us again, you can get there by clicking on the chat button that is beneath the video player, whether you're on watching on DP Review or on credibly dot com. And we have our co host, Susan Roderick, who has been chatting with folks in there and collecting questions also with the DP Review team. So before we move on to the next segment, Susan, tell us what's going on online. What are people talking about in those chat rooms and give us a couple of questions? A couple comments have come in. Douglas Gottlieb says. DP Review is a fantastic site. Great to see these guys live. This show is gonna cost me money. I can feel it already, so that is very true. Maryland says. Wow, this is the course I needed two years ago. How wonderful creativelive. So a couple questions have come in actually had way more than a couple. First question I'm going to give to you guys is, someone says. I hear that compact cameras are going away or will not be manufactured anymore. Now that the Marylise cameras with changeable lenses are here. Is that true? What you guys think? I'd say it's probably true that conventional compacts are dying out. It's not so much the muralist cameras that putting pressure on them. It's smartphones. Um, uh slash new things called smartphones. It turns out everybody already has a camera in their pocket, so it doesn't really make sense to then by a conventional compact camera for a couple of $ which isn't quite as convenient in terms of putting your images on Facebook or sharing your images with your friends. So that's put tremendous pressure on the compact camera market and really put pressure on the low end. Yeah, yeah, So I think I think it's not so much that mirror less cameras are challenging it. It's, I think we'll see cameras that don't offer a significant image quality step up above smartphones. I think those are the ones we're going to see. Go, I think cameras like this. I think the reason we've seen such an explosion in interesting cameras in this sector of the last year or so is because manufacturers realize the people are gonna have to target to the people who care what their pictures look line, which is great because it means there's more choice for those of us who do. And as a shift, you know. I mean, the question is quite right, but there is a second of comfort market, but he's going away. Smartphones are voting on bond. The manufacturers have finally belatedly realising that smartphones are the entry level compact off the future. I also think that these are designed for people upgrading from smartphones. Prices were dropping so rapidly that they were gonna be hanging out shortly. So I think I think probably manufacturers don't mind so much. Well, the class that sort of really dropped away. We've seen manufacturers just stopped producing cameras, blows and have a couple of it tends to be the $100.100 and $50 compacts, which used to be 50 or right. Yeah, really high volume, but quite low mountain. Well, that was a great question. Got a conversation going way one of the topics and talk about that for a while, I think. OK, so second question that's coming, if you ever you so many cameras every day. If you were to buy a travel camera for yourself, how would you decide? And most importantly, what will be the five main factors in terms of priority and any tips for us, like a bigger sensor is often equated to a higher price. Things like that. I want to many Richard. Okay, I'm not sure if I can come up with five factors because try census eyes senses pretty much so, Yeah, Largest sensor is associated with a higher price, in part because it's also associated with a larger and better lens in many cases. But for me, if I'm going to if I'm gonna travel somewhere and I want to come back with photographs, I want them to be good photographs. So my first factor would certainly be image quality, and that means a larger sensor that probably means a larger camera. So, personally, I would be probably spend a little bit more and move up something like the stylist one, or even have we got so new. Xrx 10. So this has a one inch sensor, but it also has 28 200 milligram zoom. It's it's a big lump of camera, but image quality is very, very good. Zoom ranges very, very flexible. On this has WiFi, which means that when I'm off somewhere exciting, I can I can transfer the images to my phone and, you know, email them or put them on flicker and share them with people who haven't goes coming way. Haven't really talked about that too much yet, but just can you again explain a little bit about what the WiFi capabilities are really? Very, that some cameras have the ability to control them remotely from your smartphone. Others just have the ability to transfer it. Selected images off the camera onto your phone. Um, I didn't think I'd ever used that feature. I you know, I tend not to use my smartphone photography. I just want if I'm going to take a picture. I wanted to tell your friend. Yeah, but I have found that if I get a photo I liked with a camera with WiFi, I will transfer it to my phone and share it whether that be Facebook or whatever. And it's got to the stage where, actually, when I'm reviewing a camera that doesn't have wife, I find myself thinking I would like to use that image. Now I have to wait till I get home. So particularly when you're traveling and you're not going home for some time, the ability to just get the camera, get the picture off the camera on on something more usable. I've actually really handy. So I get the feeling that your response will be somewhat different. I know you love GM warm. Yeah, because it's no big. Yeah, that's one of my priorities, really a size even something just a little bit bigger than this I find, I noticed, is in my prayers. So I'm getting around. Oh, yeah, it's It's so tiny. Yeah, so that's a big factor for me and the G M one has been something I've been carrying around for a little while. And it was just so compact that I can carry it on my shoulder and it doesn't feel like a weight on me or I can throw it in my purse. And that's actually a zoom lens. Not yeah, yeah, and that actually pulls comes out, but you can collapse it, and it's very portable package and WiFi, which I like a lot. It's micro 4/3 lens mount, so you you can Pakistani Lindsay's as you want. The other factor that people should consider it, zoom range travels in. I mean that that has a long zoom range, but pocket travels ums are awesome. There's that they may have smaller sensors. I don't think there any that have won over 1.7 sensor sizes. Yeah, well, again, it's not really possible, pocketable ones. They're all smaller sensor, but some of them have pretty awesome zoom ranges, and the image quality comes out great time, sometimes having to do 20 times. Zoom. It's pretty stunning. Yeah, it's surprising. The great news is that you can actually spend less money and get a 10 X, and you'd probably be happy with that. Well, that is actually, that question is a wonderful Segway in to what we're gonna be in our next segment, which is talking about those different scenarios, whether it's travel or sports of my kids or what have you, um, and talking through those different scenarios. So I think what we are going to do now is, Actually, since it is almost 10 30 we're gonna take a little break before we move into that segment instead of going directly into that. So what we are going to do is well, first of all, say thank you so much. Teoh, the four of you. This is a great great session going through who these cameras air for What is out there and the different price ranges. If people want to find out more about each of these cameras, tell us, you know we have. We have a big DP Review audience joining us today, but we also have a big, creative live audience. Join us today. So talk to me a little bit about what people can find out more about these anti people. We have announcement stories, full specifications in depth. First look previews where we have no time to do a full review on and indeed, for reviews off most if not all, of these products. And the best way to find them is to enter the camera name in the search box on our home page, and it should all just pop right out.