Identifying Your Tribe
Is everyone ready, man? Thanks for hanging in. I mean, so it's a long chuck to go through a creative live course, so I really appreciate you all investing in yourselves and taking the time to do it, and that includes everybody at home again. Can I just like it's magical to think of where all these people might be? What kind of chair they're sitting in, a kind of what kind of thing they're wearing, what kind of art they make? It's really kind of really amazing took to ponder that when I talk about is where does your thought your tribe celebrate? Okay? And that's ah that's an ode to seth golden, who is a marketing genius. And he wrote a book called tribes so I'm borrowing his word their tribe and I think somehow it's easier to connect again. You know, we call it the business plan. People's helmet starts to turn right? You call it the making money plan. Everyone starts to brighten up, so I'm sort of just only referring to it as a target market. I refer to it as a tribe, and I'm gonna tell...
you a little bit of a little story about because we like, I heard we like stories with you story is about bali, ok? And so in bali, there was a time before, um before the hindus arrived and they were in another neighboring island. I don't know what that wass but the muslims were coming to slaughter them and they only had so much time and they only had so many boats and so they obviously put the royal family on the boats. The royal family owned the boats and in the royal family also put to other categories of people from the entire tribe on the boats. Can you venture a guess who that wass who do you think they put on the boats? Priest inscribes priest describes. That was one. Yes. And who else off artists? Any artists? Why would they do that? Serve their culture? Yeah, to preserve their culture because they had to flee their land. Exactly. So, can you see how valuable artists are? Look, it seems like a museum, right? All the art art stuff from right old tribes were there. So during a political revolution, who's, the first to be commissioned and the first to be executed artists, right? Because we're powerful were thought leaders we move people, we inspire people. I just was listening to npr the other day and learning about how popular jazz wass in the thirties and forties, I'm not sure exactly when on dh. Then the chinese government banned any western music for about thirty or forty years so that's how powerful jazz music was in their eyes that they went to all the time and trouble to ban the music so the reason I refer to bali is because it gives you no understanding of the target market in the perspective of a tribe right really what we do is we celebrate values right really that's cheryl you're celebrating the value of relationships right what you celebrating vernon uh would probably the value of how much joy you let into your life exactly my nickname for vernon is the joy meister because he's really he's just naturally very joyful and it's contagious and it is what he's trying to spread in the world so good on you right so let's just experiment a little bit with this and I know you're all at different stages but let's just go down down the row what are you celebrating I'm not sure what I'm like through my artwork okay so good start where you are you're not sure and better for you to just own that and admit that so that you can find out what you're celebrating you do this exercise tonight it's going to get you closer to understanding that all right so let's break for everybody at home and you don't have the answer that is cool it's fine better to know that you don't have the answer and you need to fill in that blank then to just pretend. Okay? It's fine it's good you know what you don't know right? Great guess what are you celebrating tara what do you think let's just we want to say you're going to go with the value proposition of what we talked about on the phone your blue ocean strategy of the you know, taking the family lineage and chart making an artistic work out of it with your photography and your skill right for those who've gone through we're going through or have gone through a similar journey. What are you celebrating if you if you pursue that blue ocean strategy what are you celebrating? You're actually celebrating a story even missing pieces you're celebrating even the missing piece right? And I think a lot of people can identify with this so I'm averse generation american my family's from england I had some family moved to south africa and most of but I my immediate family is all we had in this country I have a lot of missing pieces I don't know my family growing up I didn't know a grandmother or a grandfather or aunts and uncles or cousins growing up it was just us so there is an innate hunger for that we want to know who our people are right? Who is my family who weird why belong in the world right? Did you struggle with that one hadiya and when you did find the pieces of the puzzle, how did that feel it's hard to articulate their, uh, work on that okay, it felt like a homecoming friend but in an existential way great how did you feel? I felt like I belonged uh you felt like you belong is that a basic human need to feel like you belong is a basic human need to celebrate your relationships? Is it a basic human need to feel joy? Right? Ok, you see where I'm going with this he's based in like, you know it's really about there's a heartfelt mission everybody is on a heart felt mission that they feel so strongly about that they're willing to be of service in this way for the rest of their lives. Joining mcgee is not going to change her mission she is remember when we when I define the blue ocean strategy for her, I remember her saying distinctly I know you're listening, jenny, I feel like I'm on fire I feel like I'm on fire and she is and her tribe is not everybody, right? Not everyone is so concerned about expressing their love for one another they don't have any pressing moment or event happening like an anniversary or wedding, so not everyone maybe, but people may think it's a cool idea, but they may or may not resonate with the offering at the moment, so how could she find her tribe venture guests, wedding wedding planners as a matter of fact, she's got a list of wedding planner said she is starting to network with and getting to know wedding planners are really what's really important to them is that they find a way to make the even the wedding memorable and meaningful, right it's not just picking out the linen that's what they're charged with. So if they engage jenny, if they partner with jenny, they will receive something of value right? To see how that goes so she could find her tribe that's one avenue that jenny can use to find her tribe. Does that make sense? Okay, great strategic partnerships are a wonderful thing, but there's, other ways you can do shows, right, which is what you do, vernon. You find your tribal church. Really? I mean, a lot of your tribe comes from people who go to glide right or have not all of them, but a lot of them that's a natural place for you to find your tribe. All right, so, um, does that make sense to everybody? All right, so let's, see if we could drill down a little bit further about where someone confined their tribe or find their target market. Where do you find your target market where that is it's just social visit social media. If it is, it is it in person I've connected with a lot of people through social media and I have a blog's I tell a lot about about my process and my things that inspire me things that are important to me so that's one one avenue that I found a lot of connection with you got connection did you get customers? Yes okay yes good our connection I think the reason they became customers was because of that connection, right? Okay, also through I'm from calgary in canada and so we're big you came all the way from canada. I did. I am thank you not then can your drive over the baby bird was not hard so we're big oil oil town so there's lots of corporations, lots of businesses and so I find that's another area of people who are interested in my work. Okay, okay. And do you paint landscapes of cow calgary or their surrounding environment? What do you want? Your canadian landscapes? Ok. Yeah. All right. Fantastic. Okay, so businesses in social media punk shows facebook actually has been a really great source of connection. Great. Ok, especially when I've done some, um community give back in december I did something benefiting the girl scout a local girl scout troupe and I couldn't believe how many people found me based on that so that's it it's referred to his goodwill marketing yes and it was on in town it was my intention was to do this I wanted to I felt very strongly about doing this but it wasn't to get new tribe members but I did great so that's fantastic so a lot of artists will be asked to donate their time or their product and they're coming from a scarcity mentality and they feel like and also feel social obligation to donate don't do it if it doesn't benefit you e I mean you think you wouldn't walk into mcdonald's and get a pile of hamburgers just because right there'd be some pre arrangement beforehand before they handed over there stack of hamburgers right? You'd be really deliberate about it and really strategic about it because you're at the end of day you gonna make a profit and you have to connect with people who are like minded but is it is actually wonderful when you can do that when you khun like colleen she's serving she's actually while she's generating lease and while she's building engagement in connection like you're doing she's also marketing her business but it's very strategic colleen's not going to do it just willy nilly okay does that make sense? Um vernon how do you cultivate your tribe what's one of things that you d'oh how do you actually get students to come and take private voice lessons which are expensive? Well a lot of it sometimes it comes out of my performances and blood is just like handing mike flyers out like going into the crowd and going come come come to remind you you also do gospel sing along sing along to right yeah inside a well that's away actually get them to the gospel great yeah so use those mechanisms the handouts and the tactic of having the handouts when after a performance you could hand them out and then you get them neither too private lessons or to one of your workshops or one of your sing alongs and then the workshops where the singalongs conserves a vehicle for private lessons so they're all different price points right and then I mean who does everyone wants to be your backup singer it's great getting a stadium full of backup at some point it's just going to rock the whole world it's gonna be wonderful all right does anyone else wanna volunteer away that they meet the tribe celebrate their tribe if not that's okay, I can give you some things. Okay? So I'm gonna very quickly describe way that I'm going to be this coming year reaching my target market so I formed a strategic partnership with the four seasons resorts and hotels and they had a marketing campaign in toronto. They're headquartered in toronto it's called wonderment and they were looking for something that's really a wondrous experience in each local market and then the intention being that they would cross promote the silicon valley four seasons property to everyone anyone who watches the in room viewing right so they get compelling content it's very unique known for my paintings of this look regional look local and regional landscapes right so that I'm I'm local flavor for them so that's how they that's what they get out of it what I get is a big commercial if you're going to be staying at the four seasons and watching the room viewing channel you're going to see me in all my shameless propaganda it's going great so you see how we both win no money changes hands typically and an arrangement like a strange like a strategic partnership not not necessarily never changes hands but usually it's really just identifying where is the win win opportunity so if you can look for that those get both could be golden did they reach out to you or did you find them or did they have so I was at an anniversary event for a luxury lifestyle magazine that I was featured in and the editor invited me to that party and then she introduced me to the marketing director of the four seasons and then the marketing director at the four seasons was tasked by their headquarters to come up with this wonderment thing this wonderment offering and so I was part of that and let me tell you I didn't do a long song and dance with the four seasons teo to get there you can start smaller uh please it's a good idea okay, so we are ready for a google hangout with kate bradley is not right okay hey hey is your room clean no is not made it a great job but my stuff is everywhere all right kate I'm gonna ask you the same question and remember why I'm asking this question I'm asking what I'm asking kate what what did you you know I asked people to answer the question what do you d'oh because the number one source of our business is going to be coming from referrals or direct introductions and you have to be able to articulate what is you actually dio and how it may be of value to someone either you know or maybe to yourself right? So kate before and you you and I met which was like I guess a year ago or so when someone would ask you the question hi kate nice to meet you. What do you do? How would you answer that question? I would say I'm the portrait painter e I don't need a portrait all right now how do you answer that question? I say that I help people celebrate and honor their relationships with their children by painting kids doing custard commissions of them with the focus on their individuality and their interests is that really what you say in cocktail conversation or picnic? Do you really say that some I mean I'll say like the first part of that or I'll say the second part I'll say like oh dio you know, paint children with a focus on their individuality and interests okay, yeah so you actually do say is we're not making this up she actually says so because eso so that it doesn't feel like an elevator pitch it doesn't feel like a pitch in any way you know we don't want it to feel they wanted you want it to feel authentic and you want to feel comfortable in what you're saying so that you can feel confident and powerful right now when she said when kay used to say I'm a portrait painter like yeah that's interesting now what she said I know what value she offers the world unlike well can't kids are important is good to actually celebrate their individuality and I know someone who actually I know this grandmother who just is bonkers over her six year old granddaughter I'm gonna put these two together right that's how the conversations just naturally flow they naturally evolve have you experienced that okay yeah yeah I think when you when you say it from a value like offering value perspective and it definitely leads to more questions like oh what does that mean what does that look like? Can I see some of your work that sort of thing right? Okay, so cate, would you describe your mission so my mission is to help people honor and celebrate their relationship with their children, right? Right? Okay. And, um, what is your unique value proposition or unique selling proposition? Just so there's no confusion there often used the same way and selling property value proposition what's unique about whatyou d'oh I captured children engaged in their passions children with a focus on their individuality, right? So you really do take some time to get to know this child really understand who they are and what they're about? She really is she she plays with them, she really gets to talk to the parents and really learns about that child. She isn't just a alright sit on a chair while I paint your painting didn't do that right, right. So what pain do use what pain dio probably problem do you solve or what pain do you alleviate? I alleviate the pain that mother's experiences original result of their children growing up very quickly who are parents who has that pain? You feel that pain? We'll go to cait bradley dot com that's a true pain the childhood is fleeting and this is one way tio not only capture it, but to celebrate it and honor that hunter that little being right do you have lauren? I do can I grab a real quick? I wish she would okay, so while kate grabs laura and you're probably thinking lauren lauren she she wasn't on the itinerary well, lauren is a ideal customer avatar and an ideal customer avatar is really just a fancy way for kind of like an fbi profile of your tart ideal your ideal client customer or fan and you the more you know about them, the more you could be easier, you can find them and connect with them. And so what I had kate do is I actually I was reading some of her block posts and I said to kate who are you talking? Teo she's reading great blawg post but they didn't said they didn't necessarily speak tio a really targeted profile. So um kate, what do you show? Uh, the audience hear what your ideal customer avatar looks like. Okay, this is lauren daughter maggie maggie is hurt. Okay? All right, let's, break it down. All right, lauren what kind of clothes does she wear? Toe workout, lulu and that's, right? And when she had the country club, what kind of clothes does she wear? She wears her. She wears like tory burch, trina turk or burberry? Um, yeah. Okay. All right, so just go on to describe a little bit more about lauren and what's her what's her daughter same maggie maggie, right, done tell us a little bit about them just describe what you know or what you could what would your fbi profile of those of your target market well, lawrence is stay at home mom she her house is very well appointed and it's very well decorated and current it's not old fashioned it's very modern but it's very homey her kids go to private schools there often involved in a lot of activities lauren husband often works in banking or finance and investment banker maybe sometimes yeah, sometimes um she and her family are they go to church regularly. Faith is a big part of their lives you're from memphis, tennessee I should add right a big part of the culture. Yes, very big part of the culture they're very southern very you know distinctly southern culture which is very much about faith and family and that sort of thing um she there often members of country clubs, they support charities, they're very involved in charity work and then everything else is yes, his family life home life tending to the home tending their families, you know, making sure their kids have, you know everything that they need and want and so yeah okay, so I got a really big laugh because I live I live in san francisco, but so what is the publication that everybody leave garden and gun garden and gun is a really popular publication you're going to be in it I know it I know it and it's the southern living contact you um something go talking with them okay all right. So you see who cates tribe iss is that the same is vernon's try visits amos cheryl's tribe cheryl do do your collectors read garden and gun and now they don't right exactly go both go to church but I'm gonna bet the churches are very different I'm gonna bet the church in memphis is not glide memorial church in san francisco glide memorial church is a big big church basically here in san francisco is kind of in the the ghetto in away really it's really but it's an amazing institution but it's not what you think it's just not how I describe glide memorial church so they're very different so so even though there may be you know a literal similarity church church they're very very different you gotta look deeper which is why I had her could you hold them up can't see lauren and bradley I love it so when she writes a blogger post she actually speaks to them when she thinks about how to craft her mess that she actually speaks to them yes good what's the importance of that because she's built a profile of who her target market is who her tribe is her tribe where's lulu lemon okay, but not everybody wears what everybody were that really it's not like you're using in her truck okay I'm from the south there's a homogeneous quality tio what what is all this ladies wear the same clothes that shaping shop at the same places kind of unbelievable yeah do they probably dio like at least nine out of ten probably do wear lulu lemon when they work out right? Because that's what you wear that's what they're wearing in the club oh yeah I'm not going to not be seen and live with me right? She see how she's identified her ideal customer our target market her tried whatever word you want to use she knows who she's going after she knows who she's speaking to more importantly, she knows who values her services right there's no mistake she's in if she's at church right, kate or if you're at a social event you probably can look at a woman a mother and think this one with her fanny pack not my market, right? I'm not disparaging fanny packs which is saying she there's no way her avatar would wear a fanny pack is not gonna happen or a pair of tva sandals right unless she's actually in the woods right right so she could spot him she knows how to spot him and she could get her a gun and shoot him I think this is really very instructive now listen, you may not know where to start yet right? You may not be able to build your fbi profile because remember we're going to do this in a sequence we're going to identify what your values your mission is is this that comes later on and so if don't be frustrated if you don't have any clue about how you would construct this right now just take the pieces that you do know like when the fbi is building a profile they take the pieces and bits of information they do know about that target and they build it okay does that make sense? So I really wanted to focus mostly on your ideal customer avatar but I want to say so to give you a couple minutes here and say what's your number one success so far kate what's so number one success well, I think definitely being able to do this full time and teo, you know, make a great living at it making more money than I ever dreamed was possible doing it yeah, I mean, it was always been my dream to be a full time artist and I'm doing it so that's definitely the biggest success you mind sharing how old you are twenty nine years old twenty nine years old so that's pretty good pretty good. Well, I got you early yeah and so what would you say has been your biggest fattest failure ah, well there's a lot but I think in general being really hard on myself because I know we talked a little bit about this yeah, just and being a perfectionist plays into that and you could just really limit yourself in your head and hold yourself back if you sort of don't believe that what you do really does have meaning and value and that is it it's worth something andan if you yeah if you don't give yourself any credit and you're just you're just hard on yourself you're just working all the time right? Even the factory has to close down for maintenance you know you have to remember that you have to you know, making art is a big is a big job and then marketing and selling it to is a big job so it's really important to pace yourself in remember this you are your best employee and your boss both at the same time so you gotta inspire that employees and keep him or her motivated right you d'oh or they're gonna quit yeah, but you also bless you you also have to show up on time and do the work or you're gonna get fired right? You have to balance that it's a very interesting balancing act and again I go back teo meditating is a way to find out what scripts are running in your head right it's important ok and so what would be the lesson you've learned so far if you could just name one lesson I know you've learned a lot because I've witnessed your revolution but is there one lesson that you think it's most important I would definitely say the you know it's making about them and it will be about you but it's not about you so stop talking about you know this great schools that you've gone tio and the b techniques that you use and the materials because baby they like eyes glaze over and check out because they don't care about artists care and so that's the that's the the approach that were told to take because we're speaking artist language but like lauren doesn't speak telling position of care on so yes so it's not about you know it's not I'm so proud to hear you say that again it's not about you it's about them and when you make it about them then it will be about you okay, so what some one piece of parting advice that you would like to give to everybody I would say um piece of parting advice I would say that um you know to know I would say to know the value of your work whatever the work is that you make t know the value and who that that value serves and you know it goes and then it goes back to, you know, knowing yourself knowing being able to know and articulate your deepest and highest values and then then you just gather people who feel the same way you do and it's really that simple. I mean, it takes some time, but that's really the essence of it, as long as you're saying true did that. I don't know how it cannot work because you're always being true to yourself, man, I can tell you're my student. I am so proud of you. K you have done such an amazing job. I've seen this young woman blossom and really do what she loves and making good money and she's on vacation in which you have earned and you deserve and I'm taking you away from your vacation. So I'm gonna let you go, okay? Yeah, hold on. We did have a question come in from the chat room. Yes. Um, michelle flowers asked how? How do you find your clients? And how do you make that actual connection with their clients? What's the number one way you find your client's kate through referrals. Ok, it goes back to why I keep saying this over and over again, you're number one source of business is going to be referrals, so the way that you described what it is you do is critical to actually securing referrals. If you just say I'm a portrait painter, you just say I'm a photographer, maybe it'll work out, but you're really diminishing the chances that you'll actually get a referral is there any other questions before we let kate go back on vacation waken let kate get back to her vacation so kate where can they find you online? Kate bradley fine art dot com okay, everyone give kate around. Thank you. Okay, pretty cool, huh? She was so lost when we first started working together she just really had a crisis of confidence and she's just blossom so much and I'd say it's just really been amazing to witness okay, how you guys doing? Are you getting it? Are you understanding how you don't have to sell out it's just the opposite you don't want to sell out you want to marry me in true to your values and who you are and you wanna offer value you want to be of service to people that's how you get paid right? Your creative process might be interesting to other artists and other photographers, but your target market doesn't really care what they care about you maybe curious in some way what they care about is what value do they receive if you wanna get paid in this world you have to create value I mean, like I said, I like to take a bubble bath a lot but no one will pay me for it and I'd like to salsa dance but no one wants to pay me for it so I have to think past that all right you go past we talked about the fbi profile a bit um but I want to dig a little bit deeper so we talked about the this is this is a challenge but if we start to start to dig in where are we in the book and the action plan we're on number twenty six thank you. Page forty five all right, I'm gonna just start by giving you a little bit of my fbi profile all right? So usually it's it's it's a woman or man they're usually celebrating a an anniversary or they're celebrating a big birthday they are self made entrepreneurs where they might be attorneys or physicians uh accountants engineers do not commission may just not interested if I see a woman and I could tell you what she looks like she's got her nails manicured but show me those fake nails right? No press on no extensions nothing like that she's very well appointed very well educated she's very articulate she may be an attorney she may be a physician she may be an entrepreneur herself or she might be married to an entrepreneur I can't go on not about their wardrobe I could really tell by their shoes often times shoes are really interesting thing. Toe look at shoes actually speak volumes. You don't even have to look at the rest of the package. If you look at the shoes, look, start looking at the shoes of the people who buy your work. I promise you you will find a pattern that's easy to identify. And then when you go to build your ideal customer avatar cut out, you'll know what shoes to put on them and that will get you started in building that fbi profile. Great. So I'd like to just, um, go a bit around the room because some of you may have your ideal customer avatar described, and this is there's two ways to describe your avatar, psychographic profile and demographic profile, right? So the demographic profile of kate's avatar lauren is that she attends church and she goes to the country club and she works out, plays tennis, probably active and competitive and tennis. So some demographic details about her some psychographic details that are very important to recognize about kate ideal customer avatar is that she goes to church and she is charitable and her vet and her family comes first. Her children come first that's what matters most to lauren, bob and beyond anything, right? So get a sense of who that person is, and we could keep it. I mean, she could dig deeper and keep describing her but just give you an overall sense so if you had toe if the fbi had to catch her they'd have something to go on just got some trainer turks on lulu lemon she's got a tennis racket in your hand looks like she's headed to the country club and she goes to church with that lady over there, right? All right, cheryl, if you wouldn't mind volunteering, can you give a bit of a profile whether you're not you're going to do it right? You going, tio what? How would you what are some of the details or consistent patterns that you recognize of the women who collect your jewelry? Probably the number one psychographic fact is that they all have an appreciation for handcrafted mostly one of a kind pieces of jewellery and teo give the democrats demographic information they're usually established our newly retired professionals that have the income to spend um they have I have some attorneys I have, um professors, I'm not really sure I haven't figured quite figured out that connection you see a pattern or personal so that's very interesting because I don't have any professors in my mix so that's interesting and I'm not really sure in there it's not that they all teach the same kinds of things no, but they say they're educated they're educated yes, all right. And so do you think they share your values of celebrating relationships wither with themselves or other other women? Yes, without a doubt without a doubt so that's a psychographic like aspect of who your ideal customer avatar is right? Yes, I mean that's a curtis I mean really it's is really of high value to you. I know you personally and I know that's a high value because cheryl's had the same best friend since first grade right? Kindergarten, kindergarten I mean, she really this is who she is this is this is who cheryl is she's maintained that relationship over I'm sure like this all sorts of ebbs and flows and life events you're still you're still buddies you see how it's what she does is so grounded and who she is and what she stands for is very compelling that's very intriguing and I think we all value that so we can connect with that. And even if we don't need a necklace, we can connect with that story with you connect with that mission at value proposition and we might know something interesting to talk about so we may talk about it and then someone might wind up going to cheryl's website and purchasing it because of the conversation you earn caught was I call what's referred to his conversational currency when you have an interesting an authentic story to tell because with conversational currency is is that someone else is going to repeat that story right and that's a beautiful thing you want the buzz writing right so vernon can you tell me what is your what's the average what's what's the what the avatar look like um let me be very specific the ones who actually sign up for private voice lessons because that's your that's your most expensive offering not the ones who come to your performances um just take a stab at it all right I'll do it for you no it's you know it's funny because you say this and I have to admit this which is why I asked the question was why is this important and I now starting to get a critically important because if you know that then you know specifically what your market and you don't have to bother trying to convince other people exactly you've targeted you've narrowed it down and you could spend far less time and energy because you know you recognize him or her when they walk through the door often by their shoes their hair is a really choosing hair and then everything in between that you got that's great I mean I know some of your target market and I would refer to her as thin in marin is kind of new age bent a bit right she's got the money to spend uh retired they're often retired I think they were eileen fisher I think that's their clothing line if it's not a hand made petite scarf they're probably, um you're probably wearing eileen fisher does anyone know eileen fisher what's distinct about that brand tara I find it a bit dowdy but I mean that's just it's a relative term right what's dowdy and what's not right that's how you perceive it but they're rockin the island fisher it's actually pretty neutral look it's a lot of straight themes write something there's something bad or actually I have an eileen fisher the sweater and I like it I like it very much I usually like things that really fitted in um tailored but I do have one I do own one. So all right the point is just to become observant and to build this profile just imagine that you are with the fbi and you need to catch the criminal and you need to gather you need to build a profile that's really it's kind of fun if you look at it that way, then you just make it into a game. I think where you could make this into a game and make it fun it's going to take a lot of the pressure off and if one of the things that kate said that I hope you all heard is that didn't happen overnight she's worked really, really hard and she's gotten some help from you know who but you know she took time it had to evolve so just start where you are today just start we are today some of the actions you could take a you can start working on this action plan yuk another action you could take easily as you can find yourself a mastermind partner or buddy could be in this classroom it could be a home just don't try to do this on your own too much it's way too much okay is this helping? Are there any questions in the chat room that burning specifically some of coming through in different subjects don me said what if you've never soldier are yet how do you know who will be your customer do you just look at yourself because you like your style of art start there like oh that's great I'm so glad you are not your customer yeah so that's actually where things go sideways is when you try to make start making assumptions about where you should price things and what's a value based on your own preferences in your own income you are not your customer so if you've never sold it before you know just that's okay? There was a time when I never sold anything before I still remember selling my first painting I had a show at a cafe and I remember this it was like really strange because it was this really eccentric couple in the painting that they wanted it's, old and I got really angry. And he had, like, a big connection. Fit right there. And the cafe was great. And I thought, well, good. You should have bought it earlier.