Working With & Training Second Shooters
At this point what I want to start doing is digging into second shooter's ifyou're doing weddings that's where your second shooter comes into play if you're doing senior's families babies anything along those lines we don't have second shooters that are working with us it's just on our wedding day and so this is one of those segments where I think it's there's a lot of information there are a lot of questions come in constantly about just the nuances of working with a second shooter and how to and the why and the management of them and so I think this is a really, really important segment to really hone in on especially if you're growing your business right now because your second shooter really can make or break what you're doing with your business you don't understand how important that is to your business what we do is have a listen come on out here one out eliza welcome thanks right thiss isn't melissa's forte so she locked like this the whole time all right so this is my second sh...
ooter full time dedicated second shooter with everything we do and so I learned a long, long time ago and I'll take you through that that process that having having the right people on your team is so so very very important on so what I want to do is talk about who owns the images is that you are that second shooter uh the gear payment options? How are you paying them? What you're using for them? Are you letting them just come with their own gear onto the photo shoot? We'll talk about training them noncompete that's interesting. So I'm working with some studios right now that are having some serious non compete issues where their photographers have left and are starting to steal business from them and their it's actually causing causing financial issues for their business on then feed, giving them feedback, and then, of course, wedding day responsibilities. Who's doing what? All right, you guys just walking around haphazardly not on this team. Everybody's got rules and responsibilities, you know, when it when it comes to that so let's dig into it copyright. Who owns the copyright for this second shooter? You do your job, you own the copyright, do not let them walk away with those images. Do not let them use those images on their website. That is problematic, unless, of course, you have an agreement with them. If you have an agreement with them where you're saying hey, if you work for free, I'll let you build your portfolio that's fine, as long as that's the agreement, if that's not the agreement, you've got massive problems when it comes to all this they cannot, they cannot do this, and so ultimately you're paying for them for their services, they are being contract it by you. And the worst thing that can happen. The absolute worst thing is you have a wedding. You do, that person takes those pictures, starts using them in their marketing. Collateral takes those pictures, starts using them on their website. You understand the confusion this creates in the marketplace. So now you create this iconic picture. You pose it, you set it up. And now, if it's the same photographer event, who should be taking a picture of that that's, what you're paying them to be, therefore now starts using that picture in their market material, massive, massive problems. And so I'll tell you about my nightmare. This is before elissa was on our team. This is what ultimately led me to start, just realising I had to hire somebody I had. I had extra hands coming in all the time. If we had a wedding tail would go shoot hers. We bring in attempt second shooter for her. I would go shoot my wedding. We bring in a ah second shooter for me. And I had this guy was working with. He was doing his own thing, I didn't really control what he was doing, what he was shooting on dh, he one day my bride contacts me this is like six months after her wedding and she's like someone stole your image is my images are on some stupid website why're they there she's freaking out on me I go out to my second shooter site and it was a shot we were using in our marketing material so now we're creating confusion in the marketplace there was just beautiful shot I had the bride is standing in the window I'm laying on the ground shooting up so we've got her dress going up to her with her back silhouette and looking to looking away what do you done was as I was laying on the floor taking the shot he came around me he took the same shot and continue doing what he was doing why would I think anything different of it? There's not he's my second shooter this is what he should be doing right he's getting alternate shots but now he was using in his marking material and that was it that was problematic. Now I've got a bride who's livid that that image is being used and I had no agreement with him previously there was never any discussion about who owned images or or how that should be handled and so from that moment on I knew I had to make a change and so I don't talk to that person anymore, right? Because from my perspective it's just it's an unethical thing to do we didn't have an agreement where he was going to use these in his marketing or I was paying him so if you're paying someone money you're paying them for those images okay? They're not doing it for free if they want to work for free that's a whole different type of agreement that you can have with them is this making sense? What about the equipment when it comes to the equipment you've got to control the quality of your event ultimately it's your event are you letting second shooter's roll up and they're using like cannon rebels on your chute? So now you're in a church in a low light situation they put the risotto eight hundred or even higher and all you're getting back his noise guys this is dumb that is just straight up dumb you have got to control the quality of imagery coming out again these are all things I learned the hard way so I don't have a shooter no one can be on my team and be a nikon shooter it's not gonna work all my gear all my equipment is all cannon if you're a nikon shooter, you should want to make sure you've got nikon people on your group because then you can use you can share lenses, you can share equipment things like that so you got to think logically about this um I think you have to have the gear to lend to them ultimately and so you want to have that gear with them you want to be able to lend it to him and so we started building are our gear box right? So we have extra cameras so now elissa is my second shooter when she came on board, she didn't have a camera right? I'm like hey, don't worry about it we've got an extra five d and that's what she she started using so then you know, as are busy this was going now I have an extra one d so she's using she uses that that one day I'm at least I know now when we get into that situation how it's, how things are gonna happen from ah low light perspective and so you won't tell everybody how how you got hired, which you were hired for when we hired you? Yeah, I was hired on as a studio manager originally I found him on facebook so at the time I was in between jobs is what they say. So I was really unemployed and my friend told me so I grew up in o'fallon where the studio is and you guys launched your studio the year after I graduated high school with those three years now yeah, um and I'd never heard of there studio before and she's like hey there's this awesome photography studio and all found they're looking for a studio manager I applied that night and then I think the next day they called me in to have an interview and that night it was like midnight so in the interview he's like uh we'll let you know tonight I like seven o'clock and so it's midnight and I'm like I still haven't heard from him oh my god I didn't get the job oh my god I'm freaking out so I emailed him and I'm like, hey, I just wanna let you know that I'm still very interested in the job and he emails back and he's like shit I totally got sidetracked we want to make you an offer but uh I'll call you tomorrow and so they called me the next day and it was just like to me it felt like fate it was like interview hired go and then that was the rest of it and I think I managed the studio for yeah, you never managed studio about two weeks yeah, well, I guess where I was going with this is we laugh about it now in that interview what did I tell you about shooting? Oh, that I would I would never second I would never shoot yeah it's not my future don't get my hopes up yeah, so when she interviewed I told her she she tells me this all the time because now she has no saturdays in her life she has to work weddings on dh so she tells me this in the interview she says, you know, you remember when you told me I will never shoot that don't even get my hopes up scenario is how sprays there's no scenario you're into shooting that is my phrase, I love it and so it's just interesting the evolution of your staff and the people around you on where they're going to be having a dedicated second shooter. So this is my dedicated second shooter, lauren is my wife taylor dedicated second shooter and we talked about this in a previous segment I like the guy girl team and so taylor lauren is a guy not to be just because it's lauren doesn't means a girl s so it's, lauren he's a guy and taylor obviously female, so I like having that, uh, makes up team so let's keep going with this if you don't have that here take can't afford it that's totally fine. In the beginning, I couldn't afford it either. If we had multiple weddings going on, I didn't have enough to have three or four fifty one point two lenses in my back I just didn't have budget for that great we rented and so very early on we figured out that we have to rent if you've never rented looked a lens pro to go len's protego absolutely amazing to work with so I wish I had you know discount code for you something to share with you to give it a try I don't but lynch party go you'll order what you want online you can order what you want on your on your phone boom it's there on on your friday for your saturday wedding monday you put it right back in the box it's shipped back off to him super super easy yeah it's gonna cost a couple of hundred bucks to get those pieces of equipment but what's I'd rather pay a couple of hundred boxes I'm growing my business then come back with my my shooter coming back with a canon rebel x t I noisy images at thirty two hundred I mean you're shooting in a church we're not using flash during during the ceremony we're shooting natural light in there so you need a camera that can shoot semi noise free of thirty two hundred er and you need fast class fifty millimeter one to eighty five millimeter one two and unless you're gonna start going to buy that you need to rent it you need to have this equipment in your stable um, memory cards holy cow by extra memory cards do you know how inexpensive memory cards are at this point? Even in the beginning, I figured this out after I got burned that one time, even before I had my own extra equipment. Well, the next thing we did, we had extra memory cards, so the shooters have to use my memory cards. Have you guys lost your mind? All of you out there, you're letting your second shooter's leave the event with those images, you must have lost a frickin mind because if something happens to those memory cards, you know who the bride is going after you? She doesn't care about who your second shooter is if they lose a memory card. If that memory card gets corrupt or whatever happens to that card, your on the hook, you're the one holding that contract, the client paper, you're the one who's got to deal with that now, man, do not let this stuff out of your sight. And so, at a minimum, even if you're gonna let them still use their equipment, even if you can't afford to rent, get extra memory cards. It's so inexpensive thirty two gig guard card from being h super inexpensive, so get a couple of them we're starting to now is the minimum card in our camera is a thirty two gig card. Right, because I don't want to have used to shoot with the cards but now that right the memory the images were getting so much bigger and a keycard I'm swapping cards it seems like every twenty minutes and so the more cards you have, the more risk of something going wrong and losing that mostly and so I also don't want to get one hundred twenty eight keycard and shoot the entire wedding on one car that's also concerning to me, right? So I want to mitigate my wrist so just get about thirty two good cards and that should give you enough room where maybe you switch two or three cards during during the day right? Mitigate that risk anything here I highly doubt many of you were doing this what's your situation michael when you have a second shooter rarely do, but when I do, I definitely make them use my cards and whenever possible, try to make sure that they're using the same type of gear that ideo just to save me time and hassle once I get into a post yeah it's a nightmare in post russian when you're trying to edit things and you're dealing with two different camera profiles, it is an absolute nightmare rob, what you doing? Len's protego I have are you really yeah my second chair today as my fact I wanted to add lynn's part ago has a quote unquote wedding package which you can get like, you know, they put like twenty four to seventy, seventy two, two hundred onda body in there and I think they actually refer to it as their wedding their wedding package but that's really a good idea. I didn't even know they were doing. Yeah, and it's about roughly, I think it's about maybe two to fifty something for the other weekend? Yeah, it's like a four day rental on dh they ship it to you comes in the nice pelican case it's like old secure so I'd always know I'm getting the top gear yeah, take it right out its set up, you know, work. Yeah, and like you said, you could switch lenses back and forth and, you know well to that point, let's, I don't even really think about it. What should your second shooter have at a minimum in your team? And we'll talk about what a listen I are doing when we shoot, they need a camera body right? A good camera body that can work in a little light, but then they need a long lens seventy, two hundred to eight amid lines may be a prime fifty millimeter one to eighty five one to want to get to the reception and things like that you want to have something fast and in the church on then kind of ah wide wide lines maybe a sixteen thirty five or twenty four seventy that's where I'd be looking for you don't you don't have to stop him with everything just make sure in your gear bag you have the ability to speak to switch lines is right so for example on a wedding day we're not rolling around with two, seventy two hundreds we have one, seventy two hundred are back so if I'm seventy two hundred I don't want her along I want her wide if she's if she's long I'm wide right we'll talk about how we get these complimentary shots in a second but in that bag you have to have this equipment and that's why if she was using a nikon camera about here and I was using the candid camera camera back that would be problematic we can't we can't share gear on so you that's really important all right this is gonna get interesting we're gonna talk about your salary here alright yeah so your mom yeah underpaid overworked uh so how do you pay them now? I haven't obviously have a full time second shooter on my team that's not the path many of you were going to go on until you grow as you grow that might make sense your hire someone as your studio manager you hire somebody is an office manager and now this person is also shooting on weekends with you that's actually a realistic growth plan you can get there, but for many of you starting out when I was starting out, I didn't have that kind of budget to do that, so we're going to talk about where I think many of you are now verse where I am, but if you have questions about that, please ask first and foremost, how do you pay them trade? Somebody asked me when I was coming up, maybe not now. I couldn't afford to give up a saturday to second chute for someone, but when I was coming up, I wass I would second shoot if somebody needed extra hand second shooting, I would second chute, albeit I was the worst second shooter on the planet because I cannot be quiet. I just want to do I want to direct, I wanna pose and when I was watching it, so funny, he doesn't talk to me anymore. He my body worked at microsoft, so many of you know my story. I was working at microsoft in one day, I just punched out, right? Well while I was there, I was still doing jobs on the weekend, and I really didn't know much about wedding photography at the time, so I'm going back like nine years ago at this point ten years ago, and my buddy microsoft got me back into it. We shared a studio space for a short period of time on he invited me to second chute form at weddings he only let me shoot two weddings with him and then he stopped talking to me after that on the reason was on both weddings I hijacked the wedding from him so I didn't even know what I was doing so he should have just told me to shut up but he never did he's very passive personality but he just stopped talking to me after that and so he would go on impose people and do things and I would be like, you know, I would just go no, no, we should do this and I would start taking the group and just taking control of group but it was at that moment in time I knew I loved it I knew I was gonna love wedding too tired because I love the energy and the creativity that went along with it but, um how did he pay me? He did pay me money way traded, so if we needed extra help for a short period of time, he was helping us shoot right? So that's one way to do it, I don't need an extra couple of hundred bucks most of you don't really know a couple of hundred bucks isn't what's gonna make or break you more than likely what you need is extra hands you need help on a photo shoot you need help on a wedding that should probably be more valuable to you than the two or three hundred bucks you're gonna get from second shooting so what you want to consider doing is trading with a studio or somebody who needs extra help aol second chute for you a few seconds you for me and then compare calendars don't you say openly out second for you a few second chute for me and then everybody goes yeah great sounds good no hey, I got four weddings can you commit to these four weddings meaning don't go on book another wedding and then I'll commit to your four weddings right on those dates so everybody's comfortable is that make sense like just just trade it's easy the other way of course is to pay cash cash is king so I'm not cutting business jax when people shoot for me any of that stuff I'm just I'm giving them, you know bottom line second shooter for me two hundred fifty bucks many of you may not want to hear that number I did ah post on behind the shutter one time we did post about what second shooter should make average second shooter around the country's about two hundred fifty bucks someone getting mohr somewhere getting last but on average it's about what they should get paid and all of a sudden there was this uproar off second shooter's in the community you've devalued the value of what it means to be a second shooter were really important hey hey everybody settle down take a deep breath all right? I'm not devaluing what it means to be a second shooter I'm just valuing what it means to only contract at the end of the day the second shooter if you're that second shooter and I'm paying you for eight hour day ten hour day it's called ten just keep number simple and I'm paying you two hundred fifty bucks for a ten hour day you're getting paid twenty five dollars an hour cash I'm sorry am I living in bizarro world? What job are you working right now where you're making twenty five dollars an hour cash? I'm gonna call bullshit and you're not making that anywhere you guys want drink yeah you should drink we're drinking their time sal drops a little word were drinking together celebration they didn't catch it just slipped it right in there that's the way you do it, just slip it they're like wait did he said yes he did alright so right I call b s on that because twenty five dollars an hour is a lot of money no matter where you are in the country and that's the bottom line so take that off the table it's not about want to cheapen the value of what it means to be a second shooter that's not my goal it alright? I'm paying someone full time, so obviously I see the value of a second shooter here's the challenge though if you're making a thousand dollars on a wedding fifteen hundred dollars on a wedding even two thousand dollars on a wedding and you're paying that second shooter two hundred fifty dollars or more three hundred four hundred dollars or more your telling me on a two thousand dollar wedding the second shooter gets twenty percent of the gross money coming in before expenses have ever happened you're not business owners, you're nuts, you're absolutely nuts, it cannot happen the mathematics don't work, so I'm not devaluing what it means to be a second shooter. I'm just having a real talk with you as a business coach, I'm telling you you cannot afford twenty percent off your package to pay a second shooter you can't afford it and it's not about whether you can afford it or not taking a step further you own the contract. That means you did all the marketing you did all the advertising you have to deliver the album, you have to deal with customer service issues, you have to design the album why would I give anybody more money than I'm getting when I'm absorbing all the risk if I'm the second shooter and you're telling me I can get four hundred dollars on a saturday that's forty to fifty dollars an hour depending on the length of the wedding you're gonna pay me forty to fifty dollars an hour you guys understand that's eighty to one hundred thousand dollars a year at that hourly rate that's nuts and all I gotta do is show up, take some pictures for six, eight hours handed the city cars and I'm like deuces I'm out of here! Yeah, I'll sign up for that job meanwhile, on the back end of this were absorbing all the risk, so risk with that risk comes reward you've got to find second shooters who can process that twenty five dollars an hour is a lot of money to me to be paying someone and so that's about where you should be two hundred fifty dollars, so if your second shooter you want to send me some hate mail sent it to I don't care dot com senate there on dh we'll go from that it's an e mail address some valid so we'll go salad I don't care that document there we go from surprised you didn't say send it to elicits and cut it you should know now just your email they are going to send me to sorry that's how it works all right let's keep going. So this is where I think elicit will come in come in two you can tell being on my team it's like nonstop you guys see it on the brake it's it's nonstop trash talk all the time and that's what makes life interesting? I think you know you gotta be gotta be fixed going to be on the team and kat here training them. This is where I really do want a list of kind of at some back story, I think because I concede here and tell you what it's like to train uh all I want, but I think hearing it from her and how these bullets lend to, you know her experience. We'll make a little more sense and bring some clarity to it. So on a minute out of minimum I want my second shooter to be on the back for four events. I just want them to be on the bag. I don't want them to say anything. I just want them to sit there watch observe that's really, really important because as you as we've been going through this what's the one thing that that should be resonating with you everything we do there's a system to write there's a progression too, so let's see every one of you are just the best photographers in the world any leave words right and I go hey, andy, I need you for a wedding he's like great sal yeah, I'll be there is never gonna happen right there's a hypothetical she's like great I'll be there and he would not know what the hell was going on at my wedding she would know and nor would I I think I'm a good photographer if you had me come second chute for you I would be completely lost as to what was going on in your system, right? So at a minimum I want this person on my back for events doing nothing just watching the flow just listening, just learning just paying attention to detail. Now the whole time I'm not expecting her to be on the bag and just say nothing I'm expecting her to be on the bag and ask questions why'd you do this why do that? So when you started and you were on the bag can even remember any of that like what? What what what were you processing from the other side of this equation? The biggest thing for me was the understanding the lenses so he would go and set up a scene and then he'd be like, I need my sixteen thirty five and I'm like, okay, I know what lens that is because the numbers written on linds but I don't understand what the shot is so I would ask him like how do you know when you're walking into a scene what lindsey need for some reason that sticks out to me I remember it took a while for me to understand how you learn visualize that and you walk into a scene and you know exactly what you want going into it that's interesting feedback isn't it right way didn't pre pre rehearses she found out last night at about eleven thirty p m I'm like hey, you're gonna be on the air tomorrow she's what? Okay, so that's an interesting piece of feedback on what she what her experience was there and what her questions were so she's here she's a second shooter she had been doing photography previously kind of doing photography I had one lens and I didn't really know what it did that's why this sticks out to me someone your iphone doesn't count so she had one camera except when I went to shoot off so that's right eso anyway, so we're in the spirit of that she's looking at this and she's going I don't understand what's happening when or why it's happening right and so that's the importance of being on that bag so she's sitting on that bag she's paying attention to it on she's learning but she's asking the right questions if you just have a second shooter who's sitting there and they're on their iphone the whole time during the wedding they're not learning they're not processing, they're bored out of their mind and so you've got if you're second shooting for me and I catch you on my on your phone I'm going to flip out and I'm going to flip out in front of the client like I mean embarrass the crap out of you and then that phone will never come out again okay, so, uh that's really, really important we've got to coach them on everything that's happening that entire time we've got to coach them through it here's what I'm doing here is why so we would walk into a room okay, the bride's getting ready we walk into the room where the bride's getting ready I go okay? We walk right in okay? I want the bag over there stay in that corner and so elicit would just walk over there, put the bag down and she would literally just standby that back because I'm putting her in a place where she's out of the line of sight from the cameras. The last thing I want to do is I'm shooting my bride and I've gotta listen in the background just doing nothing okay that we don't we don't want that it looks really bad and so I put her in a place where she's out of the line of sight first few times he's like why do you need me over here explain it to her. So now she understand. Now we go to another location or another event. She starts understanding sightlines. Jonas starts understanding. She's got to be out of the way. But yet she needs to be close to me when I'm calling for a lens. Hey, I need my macro boom she's right there. Ready to go? So now is it my sex as being on the bag? She sets up in the location opens up the back and it's just ready to get me the glass. I need she's cleaning the glass all day. Making sure there's no smudges, no dust, no fingerprints on this stuff. That's what I need her doing. I need her it's. Like starting a company and starting in the mailroom. That's, that's, that's the only analogy I can give you if she doesn't know how to run the bag. Okay, get me the right glass. Have everything in the right position. Then you go to your bag. Have have any of you done this? You go to your bag and you start pulling things out. It's like the shell game. You're looking for something that's because your bags disorganized. I can't have that man, I open up my back, I know where everything is. Ledges are in the right order, right? From white. Just to titus. I need I need everything in the right order so that I know where everything is. I don't want to run in my bag and get lost in what's going on. Train me from the beginning. And so now it's crazy. I'm obsessive about it. And if anybody else touches the bag, I'll lose my mind. Yeah, and you do so warning. Every once in a while, lauren will assist on a shoot. And when I come back, the bag is completely disorganized. Right? So our lens caps. What is it? By black rabbit by wrapping. So, yeah, if you guys ever heard of, like, black. What is it? Rapid. Rabid. Like a rabid dog. People. Fat black. Perfect. Okay. Yeah. So the, uh, bag have these lines caps with numbers on them. Have you ever seen those? I love them. They're amazing. Okay, so taylor hates them. I don't care. I love him. Its my lens, but drives her nuts because, lauren, when he's in my bag, he will put the seventy, two hundred lands on the fifty millimeter. It right, lynch. Cats are all over the place. And she gets back and she's just like cursing amount under her breath, right? Just hate when people are in the bag. Right? She's neurotic about it. That's what I need I need somebody who's gonna pay attention to detail in the back. How many times have you ever had a lens handed to you? And the autofocus is in manual? Oh, man, that happened one time lost my mind on her in the middle of a wedding because I didn't catch it until we were walking away from the scene and I was shooting super wide. And if you're shooting super wide and it's even close to focus your mind, even catching that it's not moving the focuses and adjusting and I went to hinder my camera, and when I did, I saw the lens was in manual focus. I'm like son of a bitch. I'm like where I'm screwed. Yeah, we should drink good times and so I go into panic mode. What do I do? I don't wait right? So when stuff like that happens, I don't wait. I put it back on auto focus explain to her what she did wrong by handing me the lens that way and I grab my bridegroom and I go hey guys so sorry I'm looking at what I got my camera right? I'm not gonna throw my team under the bus I'm like I'm looking at what I got him a camera I don't love it can you give me ten more minutes and then I went back and took those wide shots now thank god I saw that then and not when I got back home right then what do you do? It's just it's disastrous so this becomes really important then when she finally gets off the bag her first event she's not going to be the second shooter no way she's going to be the third shooter at the event and so that very first time I'm giving her a camera go you're I don't care what she gets and so what was that experience like? Well, even before that it was I was still on the bag and I had no I mean I was under the impression that I was never going to shoot at this point so I remember sitting in the church and we have like thirty minutes before the ceremony and he comes up just hands me the camera and he's like uh go make that candle look interesting and I was like, what? I don't know what to dio cannot compute like it was horrible, and so I took it and he looks at and he's like that's horrible, but he doesn't leave it at that he's like this is why I let me show you how you should do it. Let me show you how you should frame it so it's always a learning experience with every every task he gives you see what I'm doing, I'm putting pressure on her in a situation where the only pressure is coming for me, not pressure from my client it's a really interesting way to ramp, and so, you know, here or back home, if you if you're on a husband wife, team that's exactly the same way you should be training you're working with right a lot of times wife's, the photographer, you're trying to drag your husband into the business? He's reluctant. You've got this power dynamic between a husband and wife team don't tell me what to do right now kind of thing, but you've got to coach him through it, right? Don't just look at it and be like it looks like garbage, because then you're fighting about the way you're talking to each other and that's that does no good for anybody instead, here's what I don't know I'd be the first to say this is garbage but here's what needs to be done right? Don't you say it's garbage let them go fix it but it's an interesting way I put her on the spot then she moved to another story along those lines and this happens to her has happened to her when you were second shooter I'm doing a neve ent wedding, right? I'm getting all my creators the hardest part about being a second shooter is directing I think when your second shooter you're not used to directing, telling people what to do, you're often in the side, right? You just like kind of a sniper you're picking off shots and moments and things like that and that's perfect, but I think it's a second shooter, you have to understand the pressure of being the primary shooter even though she'll probably never be a primary shooter for us, right? So we're sitting there one day at this event I'll never forget I got everything I needed and there's about ten minutes left and so I tapped her on the shoulder right in front of a client. I said you're in charge, dr and you could see the look on her face she went into panic mode and my client she didn't say work but my client because we'd already been with him all day now my client's picked up on how on how panic she wass and they started cracking up laughing right and it's funny because they had trusted me they knew like you know, some clients could get really upset because they think hey you're handing me over to your second shooter what's wrong with that they knew what was going on they knew it was a training exercise and they knew I had everything I needed so they actually started posing for her without her telling them anything they were just using the poses that I taught them to do and I'm like whoa whoa, whoa stop don't make it easy for her if she doesn't tell you to do something, you don't do it and so she had to start creating her own shots seeing her own shot and that was my way of bringing her up right trial by fire but you're not going to do this when you just bring some random person in to your group that's why it's so important have somebody that you can work with and mold uh and really shaped the way they're the way they're doing things. So when she first started as a second shooter so now I was relying on her there was nobody else there it was me and her at an event I didn't have anybody else to relaunch is not my third shooter I for the first few events shot like I was the only shooter that's really important as a primary, you need to understand that if you're secondary shooter isn't getting it it's okay, you have to operate under the assumption they're not getting it. And what do I mean by that? I mean, if I'm taking this wide shot of a group, okay, I'm hoping my second shooter is getting some tight candids, so what I would do in the beginning is I would take this wide shot of the group. Okay, now, she's off on the side. I know she is, but I can't guarantee at this point, she's getting what I need, so I'm taking the shot and I would be okay, guys, just keep talking to each other had come rolling over here and I start shooting with my seventy, two hundred them looking off, getting the bouquet, the flowers of them looking off, I would start doing stuff like that to ensure that I had what I needed when I got back, and then what we would do is we would take a listen back and review the work and that's where I would culture, so you won't talk about that when we view in light room and go through your shop, my shot, uh, there were I think we only got to do it a couple times, but having that kind of feedback is I think crucial to the growth of your work so you know, on camera on the day of the wedding I'm taking pictures I'm like wow, this is awesome this is awesome and then we pulled up and it's like this is not awesome this is horrible actually and he would show me because you know, he's like he said he was taking the second shooter shots as well so he would show me this is what it should be this is what you were getting this is what you need to change, so having that real time feedback I think was really important and it made me you know, I would see your pictures and I would feel like I needed to be at your level, so it was like an internal competition for me, but how many are you doing that with your second shooters? Many of you probably aren't you let them go off do their things that they come back and you're not giving them that feedback on what you need when I don't know if they're bad, you know, if you don't tell them they'll never know they'll never fix what they're doing wrong but it's not about being back she could she could be taking a good shot it's just not assailable shot right it's just not a shot that I can't that complements my shot and that's really, really important her photography has to complement or the second shooter's fotakis to complement with the first photographers doing all too often. I see second shooters, they're standing way off on this side and they're getting shots that look like their second shooter shot. Do you know what I'm talking about? They're cropped wrong, there's no composition there's no interesting story being told they're just off on the side. They looked like snapshots that's probably the best way to say that's useless if you come back to me and you just show me a bunch of snapshots, what am I supposed to do with this? So now I've got this big, wide dramatic shot and I want to complement it with a tighter shot. I can't because in order to complement it, I'm cutting to a shot of hers that looks like it was taken on an iphone compositionally it doesn't matter if it's twenty megapixel file matters if it's composed correctly exposed correctly, all these other things that go into a good shot, I had to train her how to see the world that way you had to trade me trained me to start shooting with a purpose. So shooting for the album, you know, like you said, like the big wide shot. I would I would start off in the beginning I would be shooting from the side with the seventy two hundred I'd get the cheesy shot of the bride and groom like looking off in the distance not looking at me and it's just horrible nobody wants that picture it's nineteen eighties right well and let's talk about that for a second I have to set her up to get success is my second shooter so I direct everything in the day if you're working with second shooters and you just let him wander that means you're second shooters are now shooting without purpose and we've already talked about this multiple times we can never shoot without purpose so in a typical wedding day, regardless of what we're shooting I'm going to set my bridegroom let's say right up in front of me okay, I'm gonna show you some pictures that have come off my camera and her complimentary shots I'm gonna have her stand right here or my bridegroom right there I'm going to be here doesn't matter what lens amusing ok, maybe I'm using my I'm taking a wide shot okay, melissa, I want you to go over here. I'm going to say that to her on the wedding day okay, I want you to be right over here, okay remember the progression, right? You two I want you both looking at me pop pop pop I want you looking at each other pop pop pop I want you guys looking away when they look away if my bride's here do me a favor looking right eliza susie now would you set up eliza for the shot susie looking away not getting nothing right the two of you I want you both looking away the same direction but do me a favor looking right eliza so now I'm getting the shot where they look like they're looking away and I'm creating this dramatic shot right there not making eye contact camera but when they're looking away she's getting that portrait that's tight and looks like they are literally looking right a camera I'm setting her up for success or I could be the knuckle had shooter and be like hey guys I know willis's overhere dewey if ever look over here this way so now this is taking a picture of the back of the head you've got to think I'm thinking about my album I'm thinking about my sale at that point that's the way you've gotta drive stuff like this so is good is making sense questions I'm sure everyone at home is got like a million questions around this so what? Yeah jonathan when you're setting up photos and teaching eliza how to do the posing because at some point you're gonna be taking over okay he'll solve the company too I don't know that but at some point she's gonna be doing this, are you? How you actually training her to set up the poses? Are you eventually going to say, pretend this to embody this way? Are you going to let them fall into the climb poles? I'm never going I'm never gonna let her set up opposes I don't do that. I really have no plan at all for her to be a primary shooter and let it spin off. We tried that once we'll talk about that on about standing up a separate brand, but I'm never going to do that, and I don't think that's something she necessarily wants, but to that point, I do have confidence in her that she actually would be able to do it like if I put she's been around enough that I think she could. However, what I would rather do with elissa or my second shooter is when I'm setting up the bridegroom here, okay? And let's say I set them up to look at each other and they're holding hands and they're looking at each other she's not taking pictures of that, she flips the switch and she becomes an assistant. At that point, I don't have to say another word that's actually also very important that your second shooter. Becomes an assistant they're not just floating doing nothing that puts a lot of pressure on us is the primary shooter the second shooter has to handle that when I say assist elissa is now walking up fixing the hair, throwing the dress right making sure the bouquet looks right fixing the groom's collar okay fixing his jacket if it's rolling up that's what I need out of my second shooter so that I'm focused on the task at hand and don't miss those details how many of you if you go back and look at your portfolio you see weird things like the dress is screwed up the veil is screwed up she's got a chunk of hair coming across her face the guy's jacket is flipped up or a button is not done if that's what you're seeing that's because your second shooter's not doing their job my second shooter has been trained to look for those details that's why I believe if she ever went off she could do it it's just not in what you're road map not necessarily something you want to do and I know the second you set up a specific pose I know that it it's not set up for a second shooter shot so I know to put the camera down and go get the hair get the veil it's just it's our process and that's probably good way to put it process so like I said if I were to bring in one of you two second chute for me you'd be lost you wouldn't know what to do because you don't know what's next she knows because we've been working together for three years now she knows that when I start setting up this scene she knows exactly what she has to do and she goes and she does it and we're gonna talk about each part of the day I'm gonna get to that on what her responsibility is or what your second shooter's responsibility should be and what yours is in that moment bridal prep room perhaps ceremony reception who's doing what noncompete absolutely must happen now you're not gonna be able to do this when you're bringing in temp help when you bring in a full time photographer and asking him that do for you well that's just not gonna happen but you're setting yourself up for problems and so all my staff who are second shooting for me are under non compete okay? And we've enforced it and we'll talk about that I've absolutely enforced it in one and we'll talk about what has to go into this now like I said, I'm dealing with somebody up in chicago right now I'm trying to help them through this their business is literally getting destroyed because one of their second shooters left and is now stealing clients wedding clients are calling canceling their contract, giving up the deposit on their contract and signing on with this photographer that worked for her so to give you an analogy it would be like eliza leaving starting her own business contacting all my wedding clients for twenty fifteen saying hey, I'll do you I'll do your wedding I'm south shoot or whatever whatever stick she comes up with and doing it for half the price now my clients are going to leave me right and now I've got a problem I've got a real bonafide business problem and so these are the kind of things we've got to be concerned with this is also why I don't like working with random shooters I really like having my own staff that I can count on as you're growing your business I know what you're doing you're sitting either here or at home and you're going dude, I can barely I could barely make ends meet on weddings but here's the reality we're already having conversations where you're saying you can't do it all you're already having conversations where going well my turn times are slowing down I'm not my customer sats down I'm not able to answer phone calls I'm not able to answer email that's what that second shooter becomes for you you hire somebody who's an admin slash studio manager slash second shooter and that's how her job began her job started with her as our second second shooter or as our studio manager and then evolved into that the other tasks needed her to perform um now most states air right to work okay, so you're not gonna be able to just block someone and say, hey, you can't be a you can't be a second shooter anywhere you can't be a photographer anywhere you will actually not be able to enforce that here's where the enforcement actually comes into play I can't say you can't be a photographer can't say that I can say you can't be a wedding photographer in a fifty mile radius that's actually enforceable and we know because we've enforced it and so that's the difference so from a noncompete perspective from any of your employees but for that matter as you grow your business uh you can't just say you can't be a photographer you could be a wedding you could be a senior photographer, a baby photographer plant photographer you can do whatever the hell you want you just cannot be a wedding photographer and I have to determine a radius so I can't just say you can't be a wedding photographer anywhere in the world you can't be a wedding photographer within a fifty mile radius for a time period that also makes an enforceable one year one year is reasonable so I would say ten years courts would rule that's unreasonable okay, so one year my non compete for one year mile radius in a very specific niche that I'm saying you can't and their give get there is because I'm revealing to you trade secrets, so because I'm teaching you how to be a photographer and I'm giving you trade secrets behind the behind the scenes, you can't do that, not make sense very, very important that you protect your business that's all I care about I care about you is business owners not worried about random second shooter's more about you guys, you're the one holding the contract. You're the one who has the responsibility all making sense. Let's talk about wedding day responsibilities so this is this is what we do when we're talking about wedding day responsibilities, so wedding day responsibilities first and foremost shooters don't separate, we do not like the elissa go with the bridesmaids and sal goes with the groomsmen. It should be for obvious reasons the main reason is second shooter has responsibilities in the room, but the other reason is because I'm the director of the day. I don't want the guys having a different experience than the girls are having. Okay, I want to know exactly what alice is getting. I want her to know exactly what I'm and we produce a slideshow that day and so that one person has to drive the day we never, ever separate the team. So we walk into a room bridal pratt it's typically the first thing that happens we walked right into the room for bridal prep we walk into that room she's gone I don't even have to talk to her she knows exactly what she's supposed to be doing her task your second shooter's task everything when I'm referring to elissa I'm referring to your second shooter this is what they should be doing and your life in your wedding day will go much much easier if you're husband and wife team figure out who's the main shooter figure out who's the second shooter and stop being nitpicky with each other right the biggest challenge taylor and I had when we first started working was if I said something can you get me that lens can you say please no I can't say please we are working right this isn't about just being polite to each other I got work to do jonathan's laughing right because when you do you yell at him for that no wendy wear at work we are not married at this point right it's not personal all right I'm not I'm not talking down to you that way when he's getting already right she probably that's what tower would be like she's like I don't like the way you're talking what am I saying? I just want the freaking lines go get it for crying out loud you work we're working right now and so you've gotta you know, if your husband wife team man laugh about it, put your big boy pants on and just get toe work that's what it's all about it's not personal now if I were being nasty to her or or taylor yes that's a whole different conversation but I can't worry about like when I'm in the heat of the moment and stuffs falling apart I got back can I say please pretty please can you get it for me? And if you're fighting with each other before you walk in that room which married couples fight if you're fighting with each other before you walk in that room it stops the minute that door opens okay? So there's been times man I'm all over a lissome and maybe there's something going on in the business back home that door opens with the bright hey how's it going everything good right everything's fine shelve it there'll be a time and a place to deal with that issue it's not right then and there at the wedding should do like a marriage course creative live marriage and work together no way walk in main shooter I walk in, I'm working the room I don't want to worry about where anything is I'm working that room I'm talking to mom, I'm talking to the bride I'm talking to the bridesmaids cameras not even up put it down on the table has a redoing everything going great in my bride, a hug? Oh my god, your makeup looks beautiful, right? Hopefully it does on dh so this is what I'm doing when I'm in that room I'm working the room elissa walks into that room she says hide everybody but she's on a mission all the details it's a quick introduction so they know who I am and then after that it's, just get the bag set up, get all the details gathered in one place and this allows south teo form a relationship with mom with the bridesmaids, and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if they have that relationship with me, he needs to have the relationship right and what I'll say, what I'll say is when way walking up like a ruddy this eliza she's, my second shooter take she'll be with us the whole day, because at this point no one's really met elissa, right? The family might know me from from booking, but they don't really know elissa soo's eliza she's, my second shooter, she'll be with us all day. Who's, a maid of honor today, susie, susie community of everyone you work with elissa real quick sure what do you need and then boom, they're gone they're going to get all the details. So this is going to get me all the hearings, the shoes, the guard about everything I need and find a place for me to shoot, right? To remember. We talked about the previous segment. If we're saying the day's about reflections, she knows when she walks into that room she's looking for a table that has a reflective service so and she's going to go get that table. What do you think's all over the table? Just crap everywhere and it's dirty and it's sticky and it's got food. So now she's running into the bathroom, she's getting a wash rag and she's cleaning that table for me so that there's no dust there's no. You know, sticky cup marks any of that stuff I need to work. My job is to work. Not what is my my second shooter, by the way, we can't pay our second shooter forty dollars an hour to just wander around the room and have no responsibility, her responsibilities to go in and make sure everything's ready for me so that when I step into that scene boom, we're firing. Okay, thirty five dollars. Twenty five, twenty five they're getting their looking for a raise. Then I'm going to start shooting those details I'm gonna put them on the table I'm gonna start shooting all those details uh I'm gonna get that when I'm shooting the details I don't need her watching me take a shoe shop right so what she should be doing candids so now she's got me set up I start shooting boom she peels off she starts taking candids in the room this is when I do get to know the bride and the bridesmaids in mom but this is my opportunity now just making sense it's a machine at this point when we go into a wedding it is a machine not every wedding is different we know what we're doing who's doing what on what should be happening next the groom prep same concept walk into the room hey guys this is elissa she's my assistant today should be with us all day right now she she's going to go in get all the details from the groom his bow ties cufflinks ah a note maybe anything that's that's important on that day I'm going to go in I'm gonna start shooting it with the guys right? I want to get to know him I don't I don't know any of them where's everybody from start talking about things maybe people from different cities that I've been to just want to start developing that report with the group of guys guys around so you want it? You want to start developing that report because you're gonna need their cooperation later on in the day again, I'm going to start shooting details. She's going to start shooting? Uh, candids guys goofing around, maybe there having a drink, encourage him to play cards, whatever the case may be, get them doing something while all this is going on really, really important. The ceremony this I think is really interesting when we're talking about who's who's doing what? The ceremony I've watched other teams work, and I don't really know that I can call them a team. It just seems like there's two photographers there, I would say when we're working it's we are in fact a team, and so we go into the church main shooter is going to get all the church details, everyone coming down the aisle, first kiss those are the main things I need to get out of the church. The second shooter is going to get all the church details I let her go because she might take a different picture of the candle that I get. She might see some different details that I get, so we bring our gear into the church we set up in the middle pew. Ok put our gear to the side, she takes whatever land she wants, I don't I don't care what she does creatively it's totally up to her I take whatever lens I want and then we just we separate and so we have thirty minutes forty minutes in there how much time we have we're just shooting random details in the church it makes for a nice blend when we get back we'll do your shoot off with each other on the program so shoot off the audience knows who it is but out there they don't shoot off what we do is internally just keep things interesting we'll find some random thing it could be a candle, it could be a bench it could be a tree and then we'll just say ok, go take your best shot and forces us just to have a little bit of fun and be creative with it and so if we see a church that maybe has a cool alter or something like that, we start doing that would you start comparing shots with each other? Keep the day interesting? Um now from this perspective when check out my slides here so from this perspective what sending what ends up happening is uh I'm getting the bride coming down I'm standing in the middle of the church elissa is up at the altar, okay? She is not she's not going to be standing up by me and she's not gonna be wandering around she's up by the altar she's got to get that groom she's got to get the groom's first reaction okay? Church he tells no sets his groom shot first kiss so when that groom looks down the island's he's that bride for the first time, she better get that shot if she doesn't get that shot. Any other shot? I don't care what else she did. She doesn't get out of the church. If my second shooter doesn't get that shot of that groom looking down there is gonna be massive penalty when this is all said and done, I'm gonna lose my mind because I need that shot to compliment my shot. I've got a bride coming down the aisle. I need to cut to that shot of the groom seeing her for the first time member were trying to tell a story. I can't take that shot of the bride coming down and then turn around and get the shot of the groom. I can't do it that's her job. That is her main job in that church. When we talk about getting the first case, we're not getting the first kiss from random parts of the church right it's important that we get it from the same spot I'm going to show you pictures that compare what I'm taking off my camera from the same wedding and show you what she's getting off her camera and what she's getting off her camera is damn strong for a second shooter quick with the bride coming down the aisle I'm also getting the handoff so we're getting two different perspectives of that I'm up front he's in the middle so that's right? So the bride's coming down I'm in the middle of the aisle she's up at the altar that bride comes by me I now switch lenses I put on a wide lens I step into the aisle to follow my bride down she's getting the bride in the handoff from the front side right? These are complimentary shots if your second shooter's not in the right position, you can't get these shots. This is really, really important to grow your business and to grow your portfolio if you wanted to look right your second shooter, don't let them just wander around when we talk about creatives the main shooter me is setting in directing everything everything happening when we go off for creatives obviously I'm controlling in directing I'm looking for my second shooter to get supporting shots they have to be able to anticipate what's happening next, so for example when we get on that on that shoot okay uh and I'm doing all the girls together can we go through what I need from a shot list later on? From what my shot list looked like, but I'm getting all the girls together, right? I'm to start teaching the girls that trick, turtle, right? I'm gonna teach him how I want them to be a little sassy and playful my cameras down so as I'm talking to the bride and I'm going all right bridesmaids here's what I need you do nobody been their chin here remember we talked about that on the engagement session well, my bride knows how to do that but the bride's maids don't what I need to do is get your chin turtle for me pushing chin out okay, give me a little sass. All the girls like I feel ridiculous. And then he started laughing and they start getting getting that's a beautiful, candid shot. Do you think I'm gonna be able to get my camera and get that? No way that's her job she has to anticipate that's coming. She's heard that joke a million time over three years. It's not funny anymore, right? So the first time are to I'm okay if she's laughing but now if I catch her laughing, I'm going, I'm going nuts I had a second shooter no like we're sitting there I'm working with my bride and I'm cracking jokes with all the bridesmaids right there cracking up laughing I look at my second shooter off at the side she's cracking up laughing it's the fifth time she's heard this joke it's not funny anymore so I look at her and I had already corrected her once on the previous wedding I said look, I need you getting these shots these air important candid moments when I'm goofing around them so I look at her as she's life and I go hey tracy is not funny is that really funny and my bride starts cracking up laughing how did you get a picture of it? It was so funny right? I'm having this conversation in front of the bridal party but my bride is cracking like oh shit sal just called you out and uh and so she never did again after that she never did it again but I need those moments I need those candid moments because my style is so posed right it's so structured that I'm not getting those candid moments where people are laughing and goofing around he's the minute they see my camera come up is a primary shooter everybody changes what they're doing so if you look at my portfolio you see these candid moments where they coming from boom second shooter they have to be ready to do this after anticipate last part the reception, and so when we go to the reception, right, we're building the slideshow so me, I walk into the reception. My main initiative is to start building a slide show of the day, right? Because I want to show them those pictures. So I go off into a corner my second shooter he's going to start shooting room details, flowers, table settings, whatever they spent money on if they spent money on take a picture of it. Now, once I get my slide show going, I'm gonna come back around and help her get room details, just like we did in the church. I don't need to see what she's getting on a camera. I'm gonna take my own version of events, let her do her version and in post production will figure out who's got the better shot of table settings of flowers and things like that. But I like that because it allows us to bring a different sense of creativity to the room details then, as announcements are being made and toast, you don't need two cameras going, so usually as I'm building this still building site, so I let her handle toast, I let her handle announcements hey, back in the nineteen eighties and nineties, you would have a picture of every person walking down the aisle right coming down the aisle and then you'd have him walking into the reception and those would somehow make the album nor pictures don't make the album I mean ever them walking in to the reception and then walking down the aisle a church those do not make it to my albums ever but if I don't take it then you know that bride's gonna be the one who goes where is the picture of ah suzie coming down the aisle so we still take the picture but it's just not a priority and so I let my second shooter drive that okay, take it and I'm building the sideshow then once after first dances ok, I'll be on the floor for first dances a little b on the floor for first dancers but after first dances we cut back to one camera there's no reason to shoot two cameras for just drunk people dancing. You start producing way too many pictures that will never, ever make it to the album just the reality of it and so we cut back to one camera let her go take a ten minute break I take a ten minute break depending on how the coverage is going to shape up is all this making sense? All right, what I want to do before we wrap up this segment is I actually want to go and show you pictures that have come off our cameras and so this I think this is going to give you some perspective so here we are in light room okay, so here's my shot so I'm taking this shot I'm setting up the shot right there's window like coming in I staged where they're going to be mom's behind her helping her get into her dress I've coached them on where to be looking just have fun just relax this is what I'm getting ok, I'm shooting it with a fifty millimeter one too I'm getting this shot I'm getting this shot right? This is what's coming off my camera these two shots this is what a list is getting so she's getting the bridesmaids reacting she's now getting the hands so I'm set up here this is kind of stepping back, getting the hands, putting on putting on the dress getting the bride's means reacting she's getting this shot from behind you seeing how these complement each other and so when I'm here I don't have that but when I start building that album, I need to have all these complimentary shots they're together is this making sense? This doesn't look like it was taken by a second shooter this doesn't look like it was taken by a second shooter looks like was taken by the primary that's what I need my second shooter to be to be doing typically if I would see a shot like this off somebody else's camera it be this big wide shot taken from the corner of the room. You're seeing the tv in the room, you're seeing the bed in the room. You seeing all the dirt in the room? This this looks like it was taken off the primary camera. That's what your your your shooter should be should be doing. Yeah, michael situation, obviously you're gonna cross paths. Do you have ah, linka air pull something like that. So or you just like, hey, you're in my shop move! Yeah, no, no, I don't even have to say, hey, you're in my shot if she hears me caller, she knows I'm not if I'm like eliza and she's like yeah, what do you think we're doing here? We're not going out for drinks if I'm calling your name, you're in my way that's kind of the signal elissa she just moves right wherever she is. If she says, if I say elissa, she just moves, you know she's in the way somewhere somehow saying for me, she's like south I just move. I don't even know where she is, right? But I don't move just calm down, all right? I don't know what to say so let's keep moving on and so but in theory I should move so when you call that person's name, they should just know to get out of the way and it becomes really important when you're running video on a wedding day. So when you're running video on a wedding day there's four of us in a room okay, so we're gonna we're gonna show a video in another segment and that video was produced along with photography and you I don't know that there's there might be one scene where you maybe see ah photographer stepping through the scene when the video's going because we're all talking to each other just across, you know, cross talk a lot of talk going on in the room, and so this is what's coming off my camera, right? So I'm moving, keeping track of mom while this is getting me all these supporting shots that would go in the album very, very important, right? Then I'm gonna get this picture. This actually is eliza getting this while I'm getting this? So now we've got this tight shot of her putting on her earring, and then this kind of creative shot in the mirror off hard putting on her hearing, right? This was a reflection day so this particular day the challenge for us was reflections and so we were looking for all sorts of reflections that we could use now these are complimentary shots would you if I showed you these and we weren't having this conversation you'd probably say they both came off I want the same for time for the main photographer because that's how they look that's why we do what we do there is a system to it this is not accidental right then we go in we do a first look so we go in we do a first look up on the roof okay, so I'm getting this shot the signature shot this is what I'm gonna try and sell ok and then eliza's getting this shot the complimentary shot wide in the type type metal wide still is in play so if I'm using a seventy two hundred okay she better be using the wide shot if I'm using the wide shot I meet her using a seventy two hundred but how do you know I couldn't switch lens fast enough right? And it just wouldn't happen she's getting this shot now let's go to the uh let's go to the church so we go to the church right? I got to get this shot of my bride coming down that's elissa shot now that brides going to step by me this is my shot I'm switching lenses right when we go to first kiss there's elissa shot or my shot one of us has got the type here's her shot that goes in an album that's money both of them look like they came off the primary shooter's camera right once tight ones wide there's no awkward angle we're not on someone in a weird spot we're in the end the ill so if we're doing this I'm down here on one knee center aisle I've got my seventy two hundred she's over my shoulder with the opposite lens right she's either got sixteen, thirty five or seventy two hundred were opposite that's how we just pulled off those two shots it's important if you're wide your on the ground actually so that your dead center there's no skew seventy two hundred go like right over my shoulder is that making sense super easy stuff but then I'm surprised how many people don't do it same here so if we look at this right we've got this is coming off one camera this is coming off the others the same moment right she's up there so you could see her hands those there it's the same moment and so these air coming off two different cameras but because we're both in that same spot you can tell that they're two different they're two different cameras all this stuff is really, really important now when we go off and do creatives I'm just showing you a sampling of images so you kind of get a sense, right? I'm taking a wide shot she's getting a tight shot that's how fast we're moving so I don't have my second shooter just off on the side doing random things go do something random we don't care we're working together her shots your second shooter shots have to compliment the primary shooter spot shot this making sense questions about any of this lot of it's common sense but a lot of you don't do it jonathan uh letting camera settings as to how you're doing what it is that you're doing and having two different cameras do you not worry about that? Like what studies are settings or also flash or not flash or using all available light, you know, throughout the events or what? Yeah, so when we're doing stuff like this there's no flash it's all natural light, especially in that room, if we go back to on look at the room here while she's getting ready that's, natural light coming in from the window so we don't have I set it up that way the minute we introduced flash into the equation shooting from two cameras becomes very, very complicated at best because you're dealing with all sorts of different lighting and exposure situations now I'm not talking about white balance I'm talking about if you're standing here shooting this way I mean let's look in this studio for the second for a second if I'm shooting this way well she's got great light honor my flash is only gonna put out so much power doesn't need it right but the minute we come over here from my second shooter's angle and I would start shooting at you in the audience well there's no light on you so now my flash is dumping right like full power three quarter power tow light you up now I get into post production it's a freaking nightmare image to image the image to image the image now you could start editing by camera you could do things like that but it just slows things down so we're possible I tried to set us up for natural light when we go in and we start doing off camera flash or anything like that we cut down to usually one camera so if I'm doing big dramatic shots my signature style shots where I get off camera flash well she can't shoot because she's the one holding the flash right that becomes really really important and you'll see some of those shots where we get these big dramatic shots it's only coming off one camera because from a signature shot I'm not looking for tight mental wide I'm looking for wide I'm looking for the shot I'm gonna sell is there thirty by forty they're twenty by thirty on the wall