FreePreview: Building a Pre-Production Book
Once we really talk about the concept is we build a pre production book, and this preproduction book is something that we're going to share with our client or with the ad agents, your ad agency and client, and I'll share it with my crew and it's really just making sure that we're all on the same page and and it's it's all about checklists, right? When you get to that location, if there's something that you didn't think about it, it's mission critical toe have that piece of equipment to have that prop and it's not there, you're in trouble because, like the production's underway, so we're very thorough. This is where you need to be. Anal retentive as a photographer, as a filmmaker, you've gotta be buttoned up like you've got to show up with all the right documentation and equipment, so we'll do an overview of the schedule, so here we are, you know, and this again are mock shoot, but on the twenty fourth, we're going to travel to seattle. Twenty fifth is our prep in tech scout, so prep me...
eting, we're going to unload all of our gear in the garage, we're going to build out cameras were going to setup tripods if we need to buy waits for the jib, we're going to buy it were going by water. And then we're going to tech scout, which and we're going to do that tomorrow we're going to walk down to the dock and we're going to physically look at okay, where we going to put cameras where the shots, what our challenges do? We need to solve any problems? Because there's a big difference between looking at scouting photos online versus physically being there and looking at your location and you've got a budget time for that, you know, if we can, we want today to do our tech scout. This is a simple location, so half a day is fine, but often times were doing shoots where we're going to multiple locations over, you know, multi week period, so scouting each location is key and then getting on the ground doing a tech scout. So then on the twenty sixth and this this really isn't true. We're not going to split into two days still photo shoot on one day than video shoot the next than our rap day wrapped day is in the vault packed bags for the airplane, where you somehow manage to get exactly fifth pounds of clothing and gear into it, but it takes you three and a half hours to pack it because everything is precisely packed packing year, you know, we brought eight hundred forty pounds of gear with us. The seattle in like twelve different pelican cases it takes time to put that year back inside of those bags in cases so we will really try to plan a wrapped and that rap days so that we can download all the footage correctly make darn certain it's backed up in triplicate years pact correctly ideally recharge batteries so we're ready to roll into the next production and we're not rushed getting to the airport then we break out everyone's role and again this pdf will be in the course of few download it's you can use this template for laying out your own preproduction document but it's who's our client if there's an agency involved looks like we have our senior vice president from the agency is going to be john doe and then the director broadcast publication is john dear and then we have the executive creative director is john rae but you want to really break out you need to know who's going to be on the location and on really big productions will even try to put a photo of everyone in our production document so that you don't feel like an idiot when you're trying to remember like is this the main guy or is this the hair and makeup person? So then I'm the production company corey rich productions and then we break down all of our responsibilities I'm going to be the photographer and the director josh merry in l a is back in my office he produced the shoot and he's running my office we have dane henry who I introduced earlier he's going to be our dp and he's going to be showing this post production in the aftermath rc helicopter pilot and camera operator is sean haverstock jordan is going to be our lighting tech and then bligh's gonna be our first assistant now all of those slash marks that's kind of new like an old school production you were one hat and that's all you weren't in new school production at least the jobs that we dio really everybody should have the slash next to their name blye should be first assistant camera operator jordan is going to be first assistant or lighting tech second assistant sean rc helicopter and camera operator dane dp and video editor the bottom line is like when you build a team you want to have a group of people that everyone's willing to like trade hats put to get their hands dirty do what they need to do to get the job done and that makes it a lot more fun and you produce a better product so here we go now here's some larger scouting photos so we're you know, this is our client's going to see this we're showing them okay there's some lawn to stage there's that doc photo in the lower left you know, there and by the way, this also when I see this trampoline up there in the background, you know, I think to myself, that's going to be part of the wrap party there's gonna be a lot of barbecue beer and trampoline ing going on back there, but I'm not concerned about that shot looking back at the house because the reality is for the spot we don't care about the house, we're always going to be looking out at the lake, not back at the house, so but we share that because often times, you know, if we were going to do the chute here, we might have our clients staying in the house with us it's a large enough house, and I love that model of staying in a house with clients and crew because part of its becoming friends, and then the more you get to hang out with your clients, the more you hang out with your crew, it feels organic, it feels real, and it makes for a better product is my experience. In the end, we decide we're going to use gym as our fisherman, so we go online and actually pull some images of jim and action, you know, pulling big fish out of the water. And we actually of course we build a little bio because we want the whole crew to be knowledgeable so when you meet jim, you need to know that he is the host of the kayak fishing show on the world fishing network lively personality one of the most recognizable kayak anglers in north america and so by the way so jim of course is going to show up tomorrow and he's going to be our model for the shoot and so and that that there's really confidence for me and having jim because one he's a great guy eric's vouch for him he's on the team he's an expert and get on the phone with him in advance of the shoot and really do a discovery call with him I described what my expectation is hey jim, I want you to like tell me if something's ridiculous that I'm asking you to do I don't want I don't want to force you into doing stuff that's not authentic and then of course jim laughs and this is what I've never fished in a lake like this okay, that's enough you're going to fish in this lake but it's communicating with your talent we also build a proper list that's what are the things that we need in order to do our shot with jim so it's of course we have the cuda kayak is pft personal floatation devices fishing rod his paddle whatever that is some kind of a device for finding fish and two of the items that are missing when this preproduction book was built before I called jim I said, hey jim, you know, one of the shots that we want to do is actually the fish coming out of the water and you know, you like reeling in a fishing he says, well, I can't guarantee that I can catch a fish so I say okay, well, should we buy a fish and he said, well, if you get a fake you know if you go to pike's market by fish it's going to stink and you know you don't want to throw that in the water so in the end we decided we were going to buy a fiberglass fish from hollywood so we have a three hundred fifty dollars fiberglass fish that we brought actually bought it from beer shoot that we did years ago I don't even know if it's the right fish for fresh water but it doesn't matter it's suspension of disbelief I think our goal is gonna be bly is going to be in the water flopping the fish around and jim was going to be on the boat you know what the rod flexed trying to pull and it's creating illusion right it's creating a scene and making it look real that's how we're going to shoot that fishing scene and the other thing that eric jackson said early in this discovery calls you know, part of fishing and kayaking part of any adventure sport that lifestyle is at the end of your fishing day the end of your ski day at the end of your climbing day you sit on the tailgate of your truck and your practical beer open and you you take a swell of a swig of your beer and you reminisce about your fishing, okay? And are you comfortable with us ending with a beer drinking shot? Eric says absolutely it's part of our culture that's how we're going to sell it so also on this prop list we need a beer you know either a beer bottle or a beer can because when jim is done fishing in this thirty second segment is gonna crack open a cold one and take a drink of it so to props are missing and that comes out of building these documents so that we can have a dialogue around what's missing what's there. So we actually asked jim oftentimes the clothing of the wardrobe that the talent owns it's the best wardrobe that you're going to get your hands on its authentic they use it all the time fits them perfectly so we actually asked jim hey jim, can you show us what you own so he sends us you know the dry tops in different colors I mean I'm sure he pulled these off the web he shows us the bibs or the overalls shows us the synthetic pants and so then we have a really good feel for what we're working with he shows us different if he's not wearing a dry top the different colored tops he has the shoes that he wears and and then I notice after we share this production document with jim he didn't show us photographs of his hat but I thought that was a lot of the character in gym it's like I loved actually seeing that he had that cool like you know salty fishing hat and I'm envisioning he has like the different fishing hooks in the top of it so I of course say hey jim make sure you bring your fishing hat because that adds a lot of character to this shot so that's our proper list that's on the production document and then now this isn't with every shoot that we'll do this but I wanted to take you through what storyboards look like one of our friends actually drew these story boards for us and it was all based on a single phone call so I started the concept ing and this is these air this to still photographs that were going to do so one of the concepts is fish in the foreground cameras half in the water camera half out of the water jim's on standing on it screwed a line is, you know, he's pulling on the rod it's flexed you know, he's shouting or whatever you do when you're catching a big fish you know, hooting and hollering and the other shot is going to be kind of an environmental portrait of jim he's standing there looking like the crusty old fisherman the kudos floating in the background and that's probably going to be a pretty high contrast let portrait now the reason that we did these storyboards is partially just so that we could go through that's not what I meant to do partially we're doing the storyboards so that we can talk about them in this course, but the other reason is with clients where you're not certain are you on the same page? It really helps to actually kind of try to draw, you know show them in a black and white what are we trying to accomplish and get a thumbs up or get a thumbs down? So and now with video, especially when it's a commercial spot just move this when it's a commercial spot, it really helps to kind of try to pre visualize what are we trying to shoot? We only have one day to do this production and we're trying to shoot stills in motion simultaneous so you say, okay, work backwards we have a thirty second spot that we're trying to put together if we put two second shots in that's, only fifteen shots, so you have to be pretty conscientious of where you're going to put your time. So this is something that I developed. Eric had nothing to do with this. I sit down with the guys in my office or with bly and dane and sean, we might brainstorm together, okay? What's this story gonna be and here's what we come up with it's going to be just a quick fishing experience? We're going to see jim tight shot of his face he's looking out at the lake, then he's going to grab this kayak and start dragging it into the water. We're going to go to a detail of jim shot three words kind of pushing his kayak out or pulling it out, then we're going to go half submerged underwater and we're going to see him paddle away from the boat there from the shore. Then we're going to go to an aerial shot of the rc helicopter looking straight down or some big cinematic sweeping shot of the kayak. Then we're going to go to a wide shot that establishes he's out on the lake and he's fishing, maybe he's standing up, maybe is sitting, then we're actually going to then we're going to go to a longer lens shot where we compress him against the background maybe shot number seven and I didn't draw this but maybe we put something in the foreground and we can actually kind of get the camera moving on a slider and I'm not breaking down the technical right now it's just more kind of conceptually what are we going to try to accomplish then we have that shot number eight long lens compressed mountains in the background or you know this greenery in the background he's out there fishing and then holy cow you know shot number nine he hooks up a fish blind still in the water shaking the fish around and it's important for the video sequence that belies actually like flopping the fish because we're going to see that motion I want to see like water splashing off the fish and then you know we were back on shore I think it's onshore maybes on the dock he's holding up this big fake fiberglass fish he's excited he smiling next thing we see is the detailed and cracking a beer open I'm thinking maybe it's a bottle and he does it in his teeth and then he's taking a swig of his beer and there's going to be just a simple you know and again we're not trying to make the most creative thing in the world here but then he's going to read a line as my vision I think he's actually going to say something like you know life is about fishing kayaking and beer jackson kayak I think we have the lines somewhere in here so then we'll break out the storyboards individually and and the next after lunch what we're going to do is look at these story boards and really talk about how do you shoot to these storyboards like how do we actually how do you make this shot happen tight shot of jim's face and how do we get what are we going to do exactly what camera we're using what movement devices are we using to do this shot of jim dragging the boat into the water so think about this stuff I'm not going to reveal how we're going to do it now but think about what could we do to make this interesting that's always the goal how do we do this in a cool way they seem like simple shots but how do we make them look dramatic with the kit that we have to work with details shot and camera's moving these aren't still photos the's air kind of video sequences two to three seconds of pop and a half in the water half out of the water of jim paddles away and I instantly look at this shot and I think boy that's the wide version now we should push in tighter and get like a tight shot of you know just the paddle coming out of the water with you know water dripping off the end of the paddle. So good that shot the rc helicopter that's gonna be cool, you know, knock on wood, I can say that of the ten times we've used an rc helicopter, I think five times that crashed so they're not guaranteed piece of equipment and it gets a lot scarier when you're over water because of course, when it crashes over water everything's done in the aftermath, the camera, the helicopter and, you know, an hour of time trying to recover all the gear, so then we're going to go for this kind of wide shot. It would be great. I mean, I love the reflection on this water, especially past that wind gap out there, you can see the wind blowing on shore, but just where those fishermen aren't there's this beautiful reflection of the houses there's a beautiful reflection of those guys in their boat. I want to leverage that like let's try to get the camera really close to the water or maybe it's pulled back from, you know, almost this living room, and we're shooting that beautiful reflection so it's, you know, that's that's really the wide establish her? Um, I'm not even sure what I was trying to illustrate in this maybe it's a, uh a tracking shot low to the water long lens, compressed, he's working cool, clean background this is this is going to be a complex shot that's going to take time where we have the fish half in the water cameras emerged jim's doing this looks like jim already has a beer in his hand in that sketch what is he doing or maybe that's his cell phone he's texting his wife at the same time like I just caught one okay, so then we're going to get jim on the dock he's holding the fish it's gonna crack his mere open takes a swig of his beer and probably the voiceover is going to be happening at that same time so now separately actually we're going to have his talking head on camera so you know you have to have these ingredients when we shoot video of the visuals you have them voiceover voice you have the natural sound and then we can add music and graphics you kind of have five ingredients, right? The visuals you have the voice if the ambient sound you have music and you have graphics like those air, all of the ingredients that we can work with to build out our little thirty second spot so what we're going to do on day three is in the morning we're going to have jim read some lines on camera and, you know, I told you that we had some really creative dialogue these air the two lines I love fishing, kayaking and beer not necessarily in that order jackson kayak so that's option one and then the alternate line is life is all about fishing, kayaking and drinking beer I'm living the dream with jackson kayak I want things to be corning right? Like we need to have fun with this so so those are the two lines will have him read those a few times and they'll probably on the fly tried to get him to just give me some lines about his passion so we're going to set this interview up on day three in the morning and we're gonna have to work with the weather I mean, it's overcast out right now, there's a chance of rain so we're going a worst case scenario we're going to pop up a tent around them so that we can keep him dry and keep the camera's dry, you know, make it dramatic lighting and try to get jim comfortable in front of the camera reading the lines and then of course we're gonna build out this whole video spot on day three and in adobe premiere. Okay, so then we go into every day that we're on location, we'll build a call sheet and that's just so that everybody knows exactly what's going on that day and so that call sheet is just it's kind of a one sheet typically it's who's on location. First of all, it starts with what's the weather going to be what time is the sun coming up? And what time is the sun going down? What's the weather forecast what time we need to be on locations a crew call time is six a m and then you can see talent arrives at seven a, m wardrobe starts at seven fifteen and on down the un down the line crew on set and then we're actually blocking out our time to shoot like we're really trying to make every moment count. We're planning for us planning to make this day really valuable, and we really want to leverage every minute of the day, so we're not wasting time you can see is breaking out the shots even so still shoot one still shoot too, you know, from nine a m to ten forty five then we take a lunch break than a twelve forty five we go into video shots one through three, then four through six sixty nine nine through twelve until it's six thirty it's dark and then we're back on this deck, barbecuing and drinking beer with jim, so one of one of the things we're going to do in the next session is we're not going to shoot these in order because just because they're going to sequence that way on the final video doesn't mean that that makes sense in terms of howto logistically do the shooting right once I'm in the water with the water housing, we want to do the still photo, and we want to do the video shots that require the water housing that's the beauty of using the same camera for still in motion, you khun toggle back and forth between still in motion, we alter the lights we accomplish both, and then we move on to the next scenario. So for example, andi, we'll focus on that in the next session, really trying to build a road map for a plan for how we're going to approach this shoot. Now I keep on talking about paying attention to the details when we're packing for a shoot. Um, matty who's sitting in our audience is responsible for this incredible spreadsheet this's far more sophisticated than we used to have in our office, but every time we go on a shoot, we go through this spreadsheet and we check elektronik lee, what equipment needs to go on the shoot? And I would highly advise you to do this. It doesn't have to be this sophisticated that could just be a text based document, but have a document that you work off of so that you never accidentally forget something that you need because that one cable that connects your monitor to the camera the microphone to the recording device is the difference between pulling it off or really screwing it up so it's everything from our cameras, water housings, lenses, flashes led lighting from light panels, pro photo strobes, underwater lighting kits, ports, uh, microphones, audio recording devices, pocket wizards, blimps, recording devices, camera movement devices, everything from motors for the sliders, teo tripods um, filter's minutes, every little detail, all of these things like missing one nd filter for a certain size lens is the difference between shooting hd video and not shooting hd video because you can't manage the exposure, so I'm gonna just whip through this real quick, but just understanding what you're bringing on the shoot chargers and this also makes it easier when you have to go and re pack those bags. You can actually very easily. I'll show you and we're looking at year. We label every pelican case with gaffer's tape, white gaff tape, and we write what's in the pelican case so that if I'm not packing it of bligh's packing, ordains packing, everyone knows roughly how they were assembled when we left our office and how we're going to rebuild those cases to get them out the door, and we can reference this list of gear that came and make sure that we actually have everything you know, this is a great example of creative life there's lots of cameras, there's, lots of lights everything's kind of the same we don't want our gear to get mixed in with other people. A lot of my crew brings years on shoots I want to make sure that they're getting their gear back and that my dear is going back to the office, so we label everything as well you'll see a lot of c r p on my gear and that's just so that we don't lose track of it during the shoot. So anyhow, it's a big grip list, you can see everything from light stands, teo camera cleaning kit. So the other thing that every job comes back to no matter how fun it is, no matter how creative is the budget it's, you know, what are you going to make happen and how much is it going to cost? So every job that we do, even if it's a personal project, I showed you guys the crossfit images that I shot in tahoe, we'll still try to build a budget or an estimate for those jobs just so that we really know what we're getting into. We know what our investment is, um my agent, I'm represented by tectonic media group uh, and so any time we bid a job by agent builds an estimate for us and I'm going to share with you an estimate we've we've blacked out names to protect the innocent, but you'll at least get a feel for what an estimate that comes out of our office looks like so there's always an introductory page which really describes what we're going to do in this case it would be, you know corey rich and his team is going to shoot a fourteen I mean a fifteen to thirty second video spot and to hero still images to illustrate the new jackson kayak cuda you know they still images they're going to be high contrast portrait and a uh and a half in the water half out of the water fishing shot with the code on the background we're going to use jim is our talent he's a world class fisherman, the production is going to be one day we're going to bring a small footprint production crew on location four guys, so we're gonna outline all of that in this in this just summary, human readable paragraph just so that anyone reads it understands what are we doing and what is this budget attached to? Then we go into actually breaking down the budget and this is the part that's really important like if you're going to go and bid on a job, we go into great detail in terms of of course, all the obvious who is is to the usage what's the concept and then what's the use it or they're gonna own this content in the aftermath? Or are we gonna own? And they have the ability to use it for two years? We're going to define the shoot dates, and you want to get this all on paper when you're working with a client. So there's, no misunderstanding, because inevitably, now you have a phone conversation and getting it in writing solidifies that you're all on the same page and that's a big deal like the worst cases you get on location, and they thought you were doing one thing and you thought you were doing something else, but when everyone signing off on documents along the way and, you know, ad agencies are the kings of creating documents to sign, but that's it, c y a right? How do you cover your ass? And as as independent photographers and film makers, it's still in our best interest to just get the basic signed so that you're all on the same page, so we break down first there's fees there's two parts to every job. What am I going to make? What am I going to get paid to be the creative guy that's holding the camera, directing it leading the project, and we break that really, in general is being very simplistic about this as a director and as a dp and photographer that these I oftentimes were all three hats that's why we're on this class so as a director dp and photographer way of the shoot days which I get paid a lot more for than that travel days so travel in pre production days oftentimes I get paid half of what my shoot days are and the rationale is it's kind of like if I were a marathon runner it's the days that I'm really competing that's what I'm working the hardest the days were really shooting I'm using my brain the most we're working from sunup until sunset and the days that were traveling, I'm still focused on the job, but I'm responding to other emails and sitting in plans the pre production days were packing year, but I can feel the other phone calls, so I'm not as committed I mean, I'm not using the same brain power on those days so and when when when we look at this estimate that's that those fees that's what we're going to take come with us that's like the starting point I'm gonna make this amount of money, then we go into the expenses and depending on how much equipment you own, some of these rental fees rental expenses might come back into your pocket or you're just passing it on to a rental house so video camera package we're going to rent audio kit jibben slider hard drives they're going to mine men crew right so this this shoot is not actually this estimate was not for the jackson kayak shoot but I think it's really about thes line items just so you can see the way this was actually a red bull shoot that we did super basic crew is dane myself and shawn just the three of us in the field very basic line items we could have gone into a lot more detail what we wanted to keep it simple like we knew what the margins were we knew what we needed in terms of equipment so production crew is a first assistant shoot day first assistant travel day we had to pay a four by four driver and a motorcycle driver studio we had video editing we had two days three days of video editing we had a lot of production in advance of the shoot sometimes that's going to be used sometimes it's going to be someone that you hire and that's the person that's building all of these documents that's the person that's looking hotel rooms booking travel making certain that you actually the first assistant that's going to meet you making sure if you need to rent a year that it's going to be there on time and shipping to the right address and then of course all of our travel expenses airfare, hotel vehicles per diem and most clients they don't want a bill actual they want you to tell them, you know, I know we're shooting this in two months, but what's it going to cost you to get your crew to seattle what's the hotel going to cause because they want to sign off on this budget in advance so you make some approximations for example, every person it's going to be fifty bucks a day and for idiom for food that's what it's going to cost to feed everybody? And we know that on average rental cars one hundred twenty five bucks a day with full insurance on that car, and we know that a hotel room in seattle is one hundred eighty five dollars a night, for example, and so you're going to try to forecast all of this in advance. You can see our insurance, usually we bill insurance it's either we divide up what we pay annually where we look at the total budget of the job and we calculate in one to two I think it's one two three percent of the entire budget becomes what we build for insurance on dh, then permits that's oftentimes that's the one to be determined item that we have to put on our estimate it's really difficult to know until you lock in on the locations exactly where you're going to be shooting and then of course, we give him a final price and then some terms and conditions, and these terms and conditions are pretty valuable because this is what happens if it rains and we have to. Everyone just sits there and we have to shoot the next day. How do we build that? And I think our model is we get paid fifty percent while we're sitting there, and then the next day we shoot that one hundred percent. What happens if cancellation? If the client decides whoa at the last minute, they don't want to do it if they cancel a week before, how much debate us if they cancelled two days before? If they canceled the day before, what is the consequence and it's really important, that signature line of the bottom getting your client to sign that in advance that that guarantees that everybody's on the same page? And if something goes wrong, everybody has the same expectation for the creative. Everybody has the same expectation for if things go wrong and it's really in your best interest to get them to read this stuff, if it all possible, because the last thing you want to have happen is the shit hits the fan. You're sitting there on location and they say, whoa, I didn't know it was gonna work that when you said you signed a piece of paper that said, you know, I have your signature here that's the worst case scenario almost never happens, but it's that it's that safety blanket because where this usually as photographers and film makers where the small guys like were much smaller company than that companies that are hiring us and it's a lot harder for us to just eat the expense of a down day. So all right, so that's kind of the in advance of going to the location, the preproduction that we're doing it from a documentation perspective and that's kind of set up for what we're going to shoot after lunch, we'll actually really get into the storyboards and start breaking down the equipment and brainstorm a little about how we might even make the storyboards cooler than what they are. So with that apparently it's question time so awesome, so awesome cory it's amazing to me because, you know, people will really get into the creative side of things, and we tend to forget about all of the business that is in the background of all the fun stuff we d'oh so it's great to go over that, and it really is a lot it's very thorough all of your documentation and it's pretty cool. All right, well, let's start with some questions in the studio audience does anyone have questions? You talk with her about permits and stuff? Can you talk a bit more about some of the tips for the things you've learned through going to foreign countries and the permit you've experienced? They're going through customs with all your gear and every share is sure. I mean, I like to say that there's my experiences developed countries operate much like the united states, I mean, if you're really doing a large production in developed countries and again and it's more than just you with single camera, you really should be pulling a permit in underdeveloped countries, it turns out I mean, oftentimes there's no such thing is pulling a permit when in fact we there's a great story. I was with their folks from jackson kayak, we're shooting in bari, cruz, mexico and we're going to shoot it some ruins, some old ruins, you know, really spectacular ruins, and it just felt I felt really nervous. We're going to bring enough video gear into these locations and my name was going to be attached to the to the to the photographs and they were going to be used toe leverage a company, and so I thought, you know, we're in the city, we should just swing by and grab permit if that's at all possible. So we pulled up with this caravan of vans, and we went to actually go and pull a permanent some official office and vera cruz, mexico, and as we parked the van, we walked into this office and, you know, everyone to sleep. Nothing is getting done. No one could point us in the right direction, and meanwhile, our van got towed. I mean, I think it was like a setup like you park, and they just tell anyone pulls in to grab a permit. And so after an hour of fooling around trying to get apartment, we couldn't even figure out where you get the permit. Our van got towed, we had to go and reclaim the van, paid one hundred fifty bucks to get the van out of a parking garage, and I stepped back and I said, all right, apparently they don't like permits here, and we just shot without apartment but that's on ly in underdeveloped countries and nine times out of ten, you're going to do just fine. But if you're going to france, for example, you're definitely gonna want to pull a permit because that same ranger's going to drive up he's just gonna be speaking french and he's going to say, hey, where's, your permit, buddy there were a couple of questions that came up about permits modesto had asked have you ever been refused a permanent if so, why? And pro photographer also asked, you know, what is the best way to obtain permits and how far in advance to acquire them? Have you ever been shut down on a shoot? And if so, what were the circumstances? Right? Right? Um in general, if you're working on public land, you should give yourself three weeks would be my advice like and that's what you should have insurance and advance trying to go in and get that permit three to four weeks is like the sweet spot you're applying these air government employees if there's holidays, they're not going to be there very rarely do employees government employees feel the pressure, tio, you know, respond because you're having an emergency and that's just not the nature of our of our government and so give yourself time three to four weeks would be my vote. The answer is yes, we've been turned down sometimes we want to shoot in pretty sensitive areas and they'll just make the decision that no, like we don't feel comfortable with the crew going into that location, I do always joke that that's where it becomes a little bit of a who you know and how well you can rationalize the value of your shoot you know, it turns out when ken burns wants to go and shoot in a national park he can land a helicopter just about anywhere whether it's wilderness area and and there's a legitimate explanation for that can is going to reach the planet with his you know, his siri's that exemplify you know that really showcases our national parks is corey rich doing a jackson kayak shoot in that same sensitive area as valuable to the national park? I'll probably not probably not so um let's see what else would I say about permits? Did I answer those questions you yes you absolutely did not. All right all right, well, we're going to another question question came up and this is regards to your invoicing of the client the geek diver asked doing still and video something we're into now how do you modify your pricing for this? Do you treat each as a separate assignment, right? Well, so let me let me approach that from two different angles if it's just me and I'll show some examples later with no crew it's just may I'm shooting alone the answer is the price goes up I mean it's just my time becomes more valuable and there's more pre production and more post production work because and oftentimes more time you know that I should have said this right at the beginning of the class it's absolutely impossible to take the same day that you used to shoot still photos of the same day that used to shoot motion and do both well just period it doesn't work that way, so you have to decide you have one of two options you can spend more time actually there's three options you can spend more time you can commit, you know, do double the amount of shooting, double the amount of time and you'll create great video and great still content. But that one day shoot goes from one to two days. You can bring in more crew so that you're maximizing that time while one guy's shooting stills, the other guys shooting video that's how you keep that in one day you bring double the crew where you double the amount of, you know, hand feet on the ground or you khun the third option is you can still do it in one day and just do a crappy job both and that's what you want to steer clear of butt to do, to spend more time, it costs more money and to bring in more cruel it costs more money. So that's always what were thinking about which which model works best for that scenario. Last summer I did a shoot in pakistan and the carrick or mountains super remote it's very difficult to get to the location on ly, one guy could get you on ly. I could join the athletes up high in the mountains. And so that's, a model of it, was kind of a hybrid. I knew that were going to charge a little more. Let the reality is, the quality of work was going to go down because it's one guy trying to do two things, and so in the ideal world, we would have spent more time in the mountains. But there were, you know, rhea logistical challenges being up high for that long.