The Art of Being a Second Shooter

Lesson 24 of 24

General Q&A

 

The Art of Being a Second Shooter

Lesson 24 of 24

General Q&A

 

Lesson Info

General Q&A

We have we have some more scenarios coming in that people have wanted to seek your opinion on it. Well, so this one is from abc? Is it okay to ask her for a shooter to see how many? How to see how she edited my images? I was a second shooter I didn't get paid, which I accepted uh shot over four hundred photos but I never had to see the final product and no, I didn't get any recognition was I naive? No, you agreed to the terms of that now if she can, she can ask to see the gallery but then it's the prerogative of the first if the first ones to share it but she should not feel embarrassed to ask she shouldn't, but again she may or may not be able to see them and definitely asked. And in the future you know exactly what to ask that's not exactly all right, well, let's do some questions so did anyone else have a comment? Ok, let's, ask a couple questions here unless you had some more stories you want to share, we'll see if we have more but go for it. Okay, so beck had asked if the second s...

hooter is using the photos they shot for their portfolio should they be allowed to do their own editing or should they only use it? Edited photos that the couple sees again what? Go ahead boo you answer this question how do you think I wouldn't answer? Because two days together and you're not know my answer, I would never they would they would only edit their anus, they would edit their raw files like that's their picture because our editing is our brand and that speaks to who we are. But I mean that place into the fact that if we have a second shooter when we've heard assigned shooters, we edit everything right? So we bring on but this comes back to this general rule that whatever the terms the first shooter sets is entirely oh, okay, the second shooter needs to agree with it, so if that second shooter can only use the images that the first shooter edited, can I see that perspective? Why somebody would say you shot with me therefore I want old images online to look the same I can see that now whether or not I would agree with it or I would me personally by but that is something else but communication state what you want a beginning and nothing is right or wrong it's simply what you're choosing simple is that all right, we have some more kind of bigger general cross straits that we want to review from the from the old days hold it this thing looks like dr bailey, judge judy up in here. Okay, well, this is a question from sam cocks in colorado is in a normal first second shooter relationship. Does the first ever ask for expect feedback from the second on how the shoot went? And do you talk about what went well and what didn't work? Sorry, you would, but if the first is the first asked the second no, no, I wasn't actually say that you should give the input when you when you were a second when you were a second shooter, would you get it as a second shooter? But we are a couple I do give, I do give feedback to jasmine, do you give her a great I don't give her grade, but I definitely give her I I do, uh, critique her work, uh, if if needed, not always, but, you know, I look at something and say, you know what? I saw that you were in a rut at this point, I saw the photos that you got, and I think that had we just kept going, are you know how we've done something just a little bit different, you know, you would have definitely gotten out of that create a funk, so do stuff like that, but also heal critique on the layout of the day we'll just be like, you know what? This didn't work, so we have to remember that we can ever do that again and hearing it from a different perspective, but of all the thirty five, forty weddings that I shot as the second shooter, I never had a first shooter come up to me like so how do you think I'm doing like, are you ok with how things were fooling? How is the progress? I never had that so I don't necessarily think it's a norm, however, I think it would be cool if a first year opened him or herself to it, but martin, I was just going to say, I've I've done a few handful weddings is the first shooter and I had an awesome second you're with me and one wedding we were out of this park, it was gorgeous and there was a frisbee golf course right in the middle where we wanted to shoot and these guys were throwing disks through there and there's just about a brawl, and so I was kind of like, thrown off kilter and my second was like, all right, hey along let's, take it back to second, why don't we go over here, take another look on and help with that, andi? I'd asked him I said, hey, can you you have any ideas, anything like that so that do you ever see any situations like that? Where the first say I'm kind of kind of stuck in something like this? Can you grow some ideas in a way even have a code built in so like the code is oh, I don't know it's late in the day on the second day I had like, for the sleep so I can't leave him actually sickness but whenever I actually have my client twirl like a like okay now just hold her and twirl her like that's his code to be like joe read shane got nothing in her bag trio mito move around we need to do something different because she's stuck so I mean that's what we learned over the years because we know the twirled like for the sake of the client they may get one twirl photo but that's not what we do. We don't do the twirl but that's like code for we need to move or you need to come up with an idea. Stat. Yep. So yes. Okay, I have a question from sarah connor. How do you best build trust with your second shooter? Hubby slash hubby? I'm training mind at the moment and I am finding it difficult to let go um I didn't let go until after working with after working the jd is a third for a while because I understood that my brand had to state what the business had to stay intact and so I was continually paying a second shooter and j j d would come along and he would shoot just the freedom to shoot under no pressure. And then when I saw that his body of work collectively was strong enough to stand in his own yes, I was a bit scared on his first wedding shooting on his own, but after I did that it was only because I was confident like giving him like a big nets to begin with I would never just take somebody out on me like you have freedom because I would be like, what are you doing? So I need to make sure that I protected our relationship first. Second shooter's trust comes from your from getting better at what you do as you know when you become a better photographer that builds trust so with time as as we develop your craft as you start shooting in manual mode and you start getting through it and getting your settings right and shooting things that first shooter we're start trusting you know to give you more responsibility so trust comes in the form of getting getting better time time and a follow up does working together all these years has that built trust and your personal relationship we have that already wait, you have that already I think I think that whatever we would have done, we would have been extraordinarily trusting of each other but I do think that it has improved our our silent communication you know, I think that it's become so honed that, you know, just anywhere on a wedding date I have this like, oh, it was like j d is looking for me right now like it's, just this thing. So, yeah, I think this nonverbal communication looking up in a person and having, like, little colds or not in being like we got this, we're moving on or help me. This person is talking to me during cocktail hour. You know, those types of things really has homed. Yeah, I agree. I think jasmine at first, like she said, uh, it was hard for her to just relinquish a certain duties to me. So in regards to that jasmine would develop, you know, trust has come with time, right? All right, well, let's finish finish portion of great antar lasts okay? I know. You know, like we could see the finish line okay, way are at the point where we can honestly say and I think that you guys have been sitting here being like, kid, is there anything more we talk about second shooting in the answer's? No we have to have to put everything we know we could possibly say about the subject, and we hope that at the end of the course, you feel confident you feel enlightened and you feel excited to go out and start shooting weddings on your own. But so often what we see with these courses is that people are amped and they're stoked, they're like I'm gonna go do it, and then all of a sudden they're like, I don't know how so depending on where you are in the spectrum of this, we want you to plan an action plan because we're all about doing I believe that in the process of doing, you're going to fail, but without doing you will never succeed. So wow, thank you hashtag okay. So first we're gonna go through a list of things that we would love for you to do in order to start second shooting the way that you want to second chute, we want you to join the j star second shooter group on facebook. I'm sorry first identify what type of second shooter you are, right type one type two or three, then we want you to join the j star second shooter facebook group because one it's free and two, you're gonna meet some really awesome people. Be prepared to send a list of your gear to a fruit shooter if you want to reach out to them don't wait for them to ask then the more information you give them out front the less they have to think about later we want you to become personally invested with first shooters they're blog's social media get to know and find ways that you can actually help them as people we want you to present your portfolio in a professional manner and we talked about all those things we want you to use proper etiquette we know what the do's and don'ts are now the only people who can keep us accountable ourselves we want you to use an agreement to outline the terms of service so that you never have to call the second shooter hotline we want you to complete the complete the pre wedding day checklist so that you're not running around like a chicken without a head or re accidentally reformatting cards on wedding day we want you to dress professionally so no tank tops or flip flops or running to target at the last minute um we want you to create a wedding day shooting that love reduced to know where you're gonna be with your first shooter and second we want you to be proactive think about the things that you can do before you actually need to do them we want you to deliver the images in a timely manner we want you to enjoy at the end of the day, enjoy being a second shooter and relish the fact that even if as slow as you are moving, you're actually moving in the trajectory of your dreams. So for all the second shooters out there, continue this amo mentum going, meet up with other second shooters, go out to lunch with them and just pursue. What is it that you love, which is second shooting and your passion? So we encourage that. Thank you very much.

Class Description

If you're an established second shooter or looking to become one, this course focuses on ways to strengthen your portfolio, be proactive, improve shooting technique, establish the terms of shooting agreements, become a vital asset to the wedding day, and learn how to book jobs. In addition to lots of content, conversations, and fun, a live shoot will demonstrate the first/second shooter dynamic and a portfolio review.

Reviews

Laura
 

Great course!! As a newly emerging photographer, I just got my first second shooting opportunity a few weeks ago. Since I had never photographed a wedding before (even as a second shooter), I searched Creative Live for a second shooting course and was relieved to find this one. After watching some of the free sample portions, I purchased it. I was happy to find that despite the few negative reviews left before mine, the course is an excellent one for those with no second-shooting experience. Here is what I liked most about it: a) It includes several segments where Jasmine and JD demonstrate how they work together at a wedding. I found Jasmine and JD to be very honest in their representation of how things actually occur during a wedding. Since I had not (at the time I purchased the course) ever photographed at a wedding before, I was desperate to get a sense of how things really work. Jasmine and JD delivered in this regard. I was able to see how things really flow...how to react and photograph in tight time frames...how to stay out of the main photographer's way and still take good images...and what to pack and how to preplan in order to truly support the primary photographer. b) JD and Jasmine were very honest in talking about some of the mistakes they have made in getting to where they are today. I think this must be hard to do - baring your soul and talking about things that have gone wrong. But in doing so, they give something to students like me that some other teachers don't - a truly realistic view (from the perspective of someone who has made them) of the errors newer photographers commonly make, and how to succeed and keep moving forward in spite of them. Jasmine has done this in other courses she teaches on Creative Live as well, and it is very much appreciated. It's such a relief to see that in their early days, seasoned and successful photographers make rookie mistakes too - and to hear how they pushed through them. Everyone makes mistakes. The question is - what can be done to fix them, and how do you avoid making them again in the future. JD and Jasmine address these things in this course. c) JD and Jasmine have different personalities and different approaches to certain aspects of their craft. It was helpful and inspiring to me to see how they work together in spite of the differences. I think their differences actually complement the other. Like JD and Jasmine, my husband and I work together in our newly emerging photography business, and have differences in our personalities and approaches to photography. I really appreciated seeing how Jasmine and JD use these differences to enhance their photography, and how they work through the sometimes tense challenges that can arise in fast-moving wedding photography scenarios. I also liked hearing things from both of their perspectives. d) JD provides lots of solid, tangible, helpful tips in this course, including a list of non-photography-specific items to pack in support of the primary photographer. His advice on second shooter etiquette is solid and includes lots of ideas and concepts that I hadn't thought of prior to watching this course. e) JD provides information about shooting angles and lenses to shoot from/with that help round out the main shooter's wedding portfolio for each client. Again - I learned concepts and ideas that I hadn't thought of prior to taking this course. I watched this course twice prior to my first second-shooting job and it paid off. I felt a lot more prepared, and comfortable, going into the job than I would have without the information presented by JD and Jasmine. I highly recommend this course to other newly emerging photographers who haven't photographed at a wedding before, and who are looking for solid advice for what to expect, how to prepare, how to photograph as a second shooter, and how to support the main photographer at weddings in general. Good stuff!!

Sean
 

Great course. Jasmine and JD did a great job of teaching this course. They were well prepared, entertaining to watch and provided a lot of useful information.