Pitch Panel: Lisa Shaffer, Marie Muscardini, & Elizabeth Madariaga
So I'm so excited to have these three women next to me to be able to help us talk about your pitches so I would love it if our three panelists would introduce themselves and just tell us a little bit about why you're here what you d'oh that kind of thing or anything anything else that you want to add in your intro we'll start here with marie so my name's marie mus cardini and I started a craft school in emeryville about two years ago and I help create and host workshops through the studio I'm lisa anderson schaffer I'm a fine artist and fiber artist and I'm best known for my jewelry designs for my brand selma rose and also my needlework finer and I teach all over the bay area and the pacific northwest to and here a creative life yeah, I'm elizabeth moderate gaga I'm the head of the craft channel here at creative live s o I worked with people like lisa nationally to put classes together thank you guys yes so you can you guys had already tell we have such a nice a range of experts here w...
ith us today so we're going to actually start by hearing some pitches on dh so yesterday you know, if in case you weren't here with us we talked about writing lesson objectives and writing lesson plans and then we talked about how to craft a pitch you know, if you were going to approach a venue or you know a conference or somebody who runs a retreat or somebody who runs a space that does workshops, how are you going to kind of sell and promote your class to try to you know, convince that person that hey, you need to have me teach in your studio, ok? So we had a bunch of people sending e mails and then we also have our lovely in studio audience so we're going to start with a few pitches from our audience is there anybody who wants to just like jump in there? Edna great ones here it stands stands for a while you read your pitch okay? My pitches students will take their art to the sky with their own up cycles kites made of use vellum drafting paper in common household materials using personal matif in a cut glass window style students will explore color in line in a fun and exciting way great thank you s so does anybody want to just jump in with question are clarifying question or just be back? Well, I'm curious is that class just for adults or is that for adults and children? What were you thinking of for kids two teams and so it is it how long how long would the class b a couple hours it does a couple of mean to our power and with the up cycle materials with these the things that they would be bringing with them or you would be provided I would provide everything every would be prepped yeah, that sounds like a really cool cool activity for kids so I'm wondering if anybody has any maybe any suggestions for even for converting that into a class for adults or teens or I don't know any any sort of feedback that we want to give give to edna on her proposal you know I like how specific it isthe I think it's really good like you know exactly what you're going to get you know exactly what what the student is going to get and finish because I'm assuming they'll be able to finish the project in the time allotted you know what would also be kind of fun is I don't know if you can guarantee this everywhere but I feel like you could probably guarantee it in the bay area is if you have the class somewhere near a place we could go fly the kites because we have so much wind all the time like I feel like that could be a fun way tended to and also I find with kids often they finish a project quicker than you think so sometimes it's always a nice idea to have an additional project that can be a little less hands on to something that they can do by themselves or some additional part to add to the kite or something it's just always helpful because everybody just works at different speeds some piece that's a little bit advanced that maybe even you don't break out immediately it's kind of a little bit of a secret weapon to give to kids when they kind of breezed through something really quickly but I think it's a really nice and unusual idea to have a class where there's an ending activity this is really nine there's a product that then you get to do something with you. What you mentioned also is the embellishments could be an additional thing. So making tales with recycled materials, that type of thing that comes to mind thank you. What? I guess the other thing tio this this would probably come into the whether there's a like a graphic or anything that comes along with the pitch the esso when you first said it, the first thing I immediately pictured was just a normal, you know, like a kind of anoca what does that shape even tio wow, yes about that. So that's immediately what I pictured. So you know, if there's something that is like if you're kites were actually gonna be something really different or very customizable, I would put that into the description too thank you that yeah that's great and I also would you guys mind if we jump in with questions as well as we call our s so if you guys have a question as we go along as we're doing pitches feel free to jump in, and that goes for online as well. Um, great. Thank you, edna. Who else so actually wrote this as an email to murray? So that was what we're supposed to do, but, uh, I'm marie hope you're well as it's near in october. I want to tell you about the class I mentioned to you at a crafty garage sale it's a class perfect for halloween, it uses needle faulting, which I notice isn't currently being taught at handcrafts studio school. The class I'd like to teach is mask designed with needle felt ing fundamentals. This is a beginner level class. Students will learn techniques to produce soft sculpture items such as a mask. Students will walk away with the felt that sleep mask designed outline they've created themselves for an animal animal mask and materials to complete a mask outside of class using their own design. Here are two links showing how I've used these techniques for my own costume design smokey the bear shasta clause the below you'll also find a class proposal with additional details. I think these masks are an adorable start to anyone's costume and they can easily be made child size. Please let me know if you're interested, including this class on the fall roster, but so yes, I'm happy to follow up with materials and teaching costs and then there's more but with the proposal well, first off, I really appreciate that you it was very complete email. There was images attached, there was the class proposal attached I that's such it makes it so much easier to follow up to have all of that information back and forth e mails with a lot of questions on dh, then later on, when I need that information to put it on the studio website it's all right there in one place, so that is great and any email should be that complete really when you're proposing a class, um, as far as the idea, I think that's a fun idea, I do like to do some holiday related workshops without doing to go overboard, you know, still kind of keep the classes that on kind of the rate regular schedule going and put some of those in on dh it's a class that can lend itself to but it's not just, uh hollowing things class too, and I think that students really like being able to like we were talking about earlier having a project that they begin and complete in the time of the workshop but then also you provide them with materials to then take home and continue I think is really nice yeah, well part also too because all of that was three hours but it would be much longer if you wanted to do the whole you know thing, but I think it's one of those things where people could would want to work on it on their own anyways, I also like the use of the time to really look at what classes marie offers and said I identified this hole and this is how we can fill that hole rather than you know, not even taking the time to look at what she's already offering I think that's I think that's a really smart thing to do and I think that most teachers should do that, especially when they're pitching specific venues that do all different kinds of classes definitely know who you're pitching that is an instructor and a designer it's really important and I know a lot of us will put together a bunch of classes and then maybe pitch variations of that class tio a handful of different places, but when you go in and you send those e mails, be really careful, make sure you have the right person, the right school and for location and that you're really tailoring it specifically with little kind of movements around the class to be really specific to the population of the location, the style of the location or whoever runs the school might have a particular style versus another one. Those are all really good things to think about. And then I find it helpful, or I hear from stores even and also schools that when I send a pitch to just include a small photo within the body of the email, just a za quick look, because links or great attachments are great, but sometimes when people are really busy, they just want to see a quick image, and it helps us attach the class in the instructor to the project where then later the location or the owner of the studio of the school's going okay, I remember that was the needle felt ing and went with this and that, and they have that image in their head immediately, nothing too big, and that makes the file to let you know you have to be kind of careful, but just a little quick image can be helpful. Yeah, yeah, those are all really good pieces of advice, and I'm gonna throw in a question because I think it's related to what we're talking about, so when you guys are accepting proposals are likely said making proposals is there kind of a range of the number of class proposals to include in one email like versus somebody sending a really detailed proposal for one class versus that, you know, receiving an email with seven class proposals, they might all be relevant and my all fit the hole that we're talking about filling in the studio. But what is there? Do you have any general feedback about about that? Um, I I appreciate when an artist says these air the, you know, these classes I have been teaching or I've been creating tio working on teaching, but I really want the artist to choose what they're the most inspired by an excited by right now, because that makes a huge difference in how that teaching goes so it's not only about what's on trend or, um, you know, what sold well six months ago when they taught a class, but really what's inspiring them what they're really into right now so I would rather the artist pick opposed tio meet shoes I mean, we can work a little bit with that going. I think this class will probably work better in the evening opposed to a weekend and maybe it was priced at this point, those kind of things, but that really comes through and they're teaching the enthusiasm that's a really good point, yeah, I have I come from a slightly different perspective, so you know it when I do when I talked to instructors who do hands on classes like like lisa who's going to do a couple of classes for us in a couple of weeks I'm looking not only for the topic that she's that she's excited about but I also from because you know this we're teaching marie teaches in a beautiful studio in oakland on and our studio is very big and it requires a lot of other people to be here a swell all the camera guys, all the guys in the booth all the producers and so when I'm looking for classes I actually like the idea of somebody who has more than one thing so lisa is teaching for needlework classes they all they all work together very cohesively there's two on embroidery into uncrossed ege and so that works very well as a multi pitch kind of format. What I've seen a lot is similar to what you were saying marie is people who they're they're multi passionate and then that actually leads to their pitches being all over the place so it's like here's a quilting class I want to teach and I also want to teach paper making and I want to teach you know how to do bath and body and this other one thing as well and that to me means like hey there they're really excited but that doesn't cohesively called together for a place like creative life I would say is an instructor it's really important to show expertise in a specific area, no matter what? And that's that's just a tip for pitching anything, anywhere, any time, and your cattle, this course catalog that you're building is so valuable to you, it has value because these classes were going to be sold and you're going to be making money for yourself and a location, so I would say keep it limited interesting enough to start a conversation with the location or the person you're interested in involving in your class, but not you don't want to put all your ideas up front, and also to what happens is when you start engaging with a location or a studio owner, you may start to generate ideas together that becomes specific to their space, so just enough to draw interest. A really great thing to say is I've got so many great ideas to share with you. I'd love to start a conversation and that's actually what? We sent it to me like we we talked a little bit about one one particular kind of class, and then it evolved into what she's what she's teaching in a couple of weeks, thank you, guys was a great, great, um yeah, and I was just going to add on that we were talking about photos I had an experience recently where I was proposing some classes, some teen sewing classes and I had photos for all of my classes except for all proposals except for one and sure enough, I had evil back do you have a photo? You know this was not so it really does make a difference that you include a photo for any sort of project or class that you're proposing in an email especially um thank you guys so much so I think we're going to take a pit we're going to go toe an online pitch so we had a lot of people send us proposals so this is really cool we're going to get to see so I'm going to read this one for everybody this is from connie by learning six basic embroidery stitches the student will have the ability to easily create a variety of lux. Whether the interest isn't is in stitching iron on designs on pillowcases or tea towels, creating decorative designs on clothing and accessories or embellishing seems on a quilt they will walk away with the skills to accomplish these goals with confidence handouts will be provided as a handy reference tool as they peruse their new endeavor not only is this a learning opportunity for the beginner, this is a class to enjoy thank you connie e three s so I think this is great I like a lot of what you said I'm looking at it now one thing that might be a little bit confusing to someone looking at this who is running a studio or if this was an advertisement on the list service and think for a class already teaching is because a lot of us skin now it is unfortunately we're not really readers we do skim I'm talking about the different possibilities that you'll be able to do once you take the class could set people up with an expectation that you will actually be doing these things like there might be a tea towel fabric provided or there might be a pillow click case we'll be doing this things so and if that's what you want to do that fantastic and then you can say oh teetotal provided or bring your own pillow case or something like that but just to make that very specific about what you're offering maybe in a bullet point or even if it's just organized differently just because like I said, people skim and you always want to make sure that you're being really clear about the expectations I do like that it's um um a short you know you can skim that and get a just of what the class is going to be it would be nice to say um what the what materials they're going to be provided and what they're going to take home and that well might they would understand the students expectation you know this is also this is this kind of class is also a really good example for things that work well at creative live because we're teaching technique rather than project which is which is how most of our classes are taught on the question and I like that they use the word beginner because I often get like e mails I'm not sure this is the beginning class even if it is an intro class people get intimidated so it's nice just to have it there yeah that's a really good point in it and we talked yesterday a lot about including trying to include the level and generally the time you know the time that you think that this causes or you know obviously for the creative life format it's going to be slightly different but because that also is establishing your sort of expertise on this class right? You should know who your your your ideal student is and how long your class is going to be right because it's your class and you you've gone through the motions now so you know um that was great you guys thank you and thank you to connie for sending that in that's great yeah and I think you could also connie you could come up with a really cool name for your class to which will also be a sort of attention grabbing that's great on dh so I think maybe we'll pause for some questions does anybody in the studio audience have questions for this amazing panel or maybe we have some online questions related to what we're doing or or related to some something else in there when I want to rewrite my pitch well, why do you want to rewrite it? Well, because I noticed that in my pitch I'm not I didn't put down that it's for a beginner and um I don't I don't think I created a visual for the reader and I think that that's really important e think that's a good thing to think about because, you know, I personally am a general crafter so I know the big ones like I'm a sewer and I've done paper you know, on paper craft stuff, but I will often get pitched things that I've never heard about somebody in here was talking about a quilting technique and I've forgotten what it's called already because I had to look it up maybe sign of quoting technique it's a stitching take oh this the plastic sasha sasha co yeah that susan was actually perfect on s o that was something that if somebody came to me and said I want to teach a sasha co class, I would be like, I don't know what that is and when I google imaged it there's so many different kinds of things that it doesn't give me a clear view of what exactly your version of it is on dh so I think that's like painting a picture both with the words of your pitch as well as you know, here's the here's like here's four five examples of what we could d'oh maybe that's too much you know, maybe you only have one that's fine but just something to give me because I'm a visual person as well so being able to really lock onto that is really helpful the thing about beginner classes just says someone who instruction is a part of what I d'oh my brand in my work and everything it's always great to teach intro and beginner classes because you have this wonderful audience of people who may be a little nervous they're worried about trying it but you get to take them on this journey and then they become so supportive of you and whatever you're doing whether you're a designer you're an instructor you're an artist they really sort of become part of the team of your work and they will follow you onto other classes more advanced classes or they're the ones that are telling their friend like I just tried this really cool new thing last saturday and oh my gosh it was awesome and now I know how to do this so sometimes I think we might get to the point in our instruction we say we want to try this or kind of move forward with more an advanced student population, but I always they keep going back to teaching introductory classes because you get this hole amazing web of support around you as you move forward it's a great thing to dio like what you're saying about introductory that's different than a beginner because you might have experiences and embroider but you haven't been introduced tio sasha style, so I like I like that too, and I also just you know, I was shooting a class with an instructor recently and it was the first time I've been sewing since I was a kid it was the first time I ever truly understood the anatomy of the fabric and what exactly on like cross grain meant and like all of that stuff like that because she really explained very clearly how to do it. So even though I wouldn't necessarily consider I'm certainly not a dancer like amazing star, but I wouldn't consider myself a super beginner. But those kinds of skills are really fundamental and often the ones if we're taught by a parent or a friend that you miss out and just in my experience the introduction tree kind of beginner classes are the ones that sell the best so sometimes when there is like a next level two or there's just no seems to not be as much as much interest, so there's a lot of people that have been, you know, kind of tiptoeing around, trying to do something and haven't jumped into it and those just seem to be the classes that do the best is there such a thing is like two she's sorry too short a class like that to take a specific technique? Um, I don't know, I think people like being able to sometimes, like all I have in the freedom in my life right now is to give three hours to a class or even two hours to a class I don't think there's too short of a class, I do think sometimes when the class is might be too short or might be too inexpensive, people are like, oh, I'm not really gonna learn much, you know, techniques to say, like many slightly using the magic loop technique so it's a way that it could broaden you, learn tow, knitting circle, you can turn a corner, then you could have all your needles just be forty four inches long and make anything you wanted, whether it was, you know, a circle that was this big or, you know, you're going to wrap around a tree, you know, kind of thing, but I don't know that's like two small causes a very specific technique but it could go and how long do you think your class would have been? I mean, I can teach show somebody how to do it probably and fifteen minutes but you can but by the time you show them and their new with turning and they get things front to back, so then that's where it's more like the student takes it to a longer space, but I think it could be done like in an hour if you had like sixteen but it's a very specific but it's fine, but it moves on to like you can make socks that they make a sweater with it and you can narrow down your needles so you just had you didn't have to have three of the three point double needles is taking away from my well, I think in that instance you can it can be a class, it may be you make it an hour and a half or something so they know what they're getting some kind of volume of information and then it's kind of open ended, so you're teaching them a technique and then they get to decide what they want to create during that time and you're their toe answer all the questions so you're still available and I'm sure and also people you know we'll learn a technique and then go home with materials and never complete the project so there's something to be said they can actually sit down and complete a project with you and then maybe but when they see it in completion they're more inspired toe take it home and continue to do it like open ended like I just gave you a gateway tio something and I would also suggest having he's finished samples of things I definitely like many as many options as you as you feel like you want to show because that gives people a choice to kind of take it where they want tio it's nice to have a technique like that in your catalog is an instructor that then you can turn a class from it could be an hour it could be forty five minutes it could be three hours because depending upon location I do classes at all sorts of places I just did a class at west elm in emeryville and that's a totally different kind of an audience totally different kind of thing so I had allotted two hours it was a very simple project and some people did to it was like, you know, it was a saturday morning we're just kind of hanging out to this little kind of easy reason embroidery project so it's nice to have a different time pieces for your classes so that you can pitched all different kinds of locations like uber long like I think also you can see to the difference between like in person classes versus online classes, which is what we focus on obviously and s o something that's just one technique that in the online video education world is probably more of like a youtube techniques so that people if they're just looking for that one thing they can go and they can just find it and you know, see it in you know, ten, fifteen minutes whereas it works really well for an in person class conversely, something that would you know, something that could work is like it's like going back to what we're saying is like an introduction to knitting and it's like everything from how do you cast on how do you you know, how do you incorporate different colors? What are the different stitches and then that becomes a technique in the broader scope of an interest in an introductory class that's a great um does anybody have any better? Why don't we check online there's a couple of questions? All right, bri there's a question for you do you determine the price of the course or should the craft or suggest the price? Well, the first thing that we do is we discuss what the material cost is going to be per student on dh from there we kind of based the cost of the class so that's where we start with, um and I do sometimes we go back and forth a little bit what I think this a three hour class would the kind of population of the studio would pay for like the demographic that comes the studio it's interesting because sometimes like I was saying the classes is that are less expensive don't get as much interest and I think there's something to be said forthe people will think that it's not a specialized of a class so it's there's like kind of the sweet spot and it's a little bit of a dance um I s oh yeah so we worked together to figure out what will be the cost of the workshop and it's really based on the materials and what they walk away with great and then we have a question for elizabeth are there any specifics that someone should include in a pitch to an online platform versus in person workshop like suggesting interaction or engagement or thinking about how the camera is going to pick something up? Yeah, you know I've been a tv producer for a long time and so the in general when I am looking at a pitch I don't assume that anybody else it who's pitching me is going to take that into account it's a very specialized way of thinking and it's complicated enough to figure out how to teach your own class so I don't think you should worry about that I think that what you should do is talking about the engagement portion of their question one thing that we have struggled with on I teach in teaching online is there is sometimes part where we're actually watching paint dry when we're doing mixed media classes sometimes we're just sitting there watching them drive their pain and that's not terribly interesting television on dso what we're always trying to find is how do we actually make these hands on things which sometimes take quite a long time to master how do we make that visually interesting so that's something that I work with the instructors on but not something so I don't necessarily expect you teo worry about the like how we're going to shoot it I'm much more concerned that you know your content and that you have an idea of how to teach and then we work is a partnership, right? Thank you that was a great questions I hope that we maybe have some more in a little bit but let's look at another one of our online pitches and get some feedback from you guys, so we have one from marie another murray this beginner's sewing class will give you the skills to use and understand a sewing machine, perform basic maintenance and work with fabric the students and I will work on cutting and sewing a small throw pillow so their skills can be shown to others my expectation is that students will have fun, a fun, time beating like minded people, and that I will instill a love of sewing. Thank you, marie, I like a lot I like that is covering how to use your machine, but that can also be kind of like, well, a lot of people, when they get a machine, they want to just immediately dive in and just be like, oh, I'm so excited, I want to start selling, but you actually do need to understand some basis, and so I like that that's all combined. I feel like I've heard people say many different times, I've bought a sewing machine, I have a home, and I have no idea how to use it. Have you ever thought about doing a beginning class? It takes and it takes a skilled person? I don't know, I don't know if marie can answer this question, but I would people with the students bring in their sewing machine because I know also machines function differently, or is are the sewing machines provided at the studio? That's it it's a good question? Because we've done that here before, where we try to give everybody the same machine because otherwise it's tio, you know, when you're saying ok, well put the stitch setting at two point five on some it's a knob that u turn on some it's you know people that you can so yeah, the different ways yeah, I would say also as a sewing teacher it is one of the biggest challenges when you have different sewing machines with in your classroom I know understanding that you're the expert, but you don't know every single sewing machine that's out there and then I also want to say to marie too that this is a really cool idea to propose if you if you use that angle um to have a class where people bring in their sewing machines and you kind of walk them through the basics because that's another big thing that's in demand like I just need somebody to walk me through how to use this thing I mean, even some people have, you know, aren't comfortable even with the bob in so that's something tio in terms of like uh appealing to your audience, I can tell you that there's a big demand for that out there. I think this is great, I would change and this is such a minor silly thing, but it does stand out to me I would change part of the language in the last sentence about the expectation instead of making it personal and saying my expression, which is what we all do that is the expectation we have is our own and we want to share that in the pitch but I would just keep it more concise to something that students will have a fun time meeting like minded people and this classical and still in them in immediate love of selling something like that that makes it more generals it sounds stronger to me and that's kind of we talked about this in our class to about how you want to make it all about this student right your classes about your student and that's obviously yeah like you're taking it out taking the I and my out of it helps helps of that that's great um any anything else for marie before we move on okay great. So I think we have one more pitch. Perhaps so look at yes we dio great. Okay, so this is from lindy. We will spend the day learning the basics of making vessels and having fun experimenting with necklace designs warning basil making can be addicting but you will discover a whole new world of possibilities. When you see how easy they are to create and this workshop you will learn how to make unique vessels with sauntering iron I promise you can do it. We will also learn about materials, metal stamping, ice resin and helpful tools to get you suffering like a pro thank you, little lady this I think is a really good example of where will definitely like for people who don't know what battles are they will definitely need a picture and there may also be um uh it may help in addition to the like you know, when you for those who don't know vessel is like a you know like a stone with a thing around like a metal around it some people might not know exactly which part they're making you know like if you send a picture of the whole thing what which part is the bezel um so I think there's I think it's just a little they could think there's a little bit too much specialized language in there but I like the whole tone of it like that the tone is very fun yeah really enthusiastic I would think about making the second part the beginning of the pitch starting in this workshop you will learn how to make unique vessels with suffering and and maybe adding a little bit more specific information that like elizabeth was saying and then putting what you have first second I also would question a little a little bit about we want to be encouraging to people perfect perspective students about like it's not going to be too hard but you can reach a point where you're encouraging too much that people say, oh gosh, can I even do this like this sounds way beyond what I'm capable of so I think it's really good to be enthusiastic, but there's a fine line between saying you can do it, you can do it too many times where people are like, I I don't know if I can really do it, it's going to be that hard? I have a question for you on this one, actually, the this is because the jury making requires a lot of really specifics tools and the skills, yes, but also like there's, a lot of tools just involved in all of this. Have you done workshops like this at handcraft? I haven't done any saw during workshops at handcraft studio, but I think that the class that could be the most comparison to this one is the wooden spoon carving workshop, because that took a lot of specific tools on dwi started that workshop one way and it's kind of grown into being operated another way, and with this, that specific instructor she hadn't talked before, and I contacted her and found out that that was something she was doing as a hobby went to visit her studio should really beautiful spoons, and I asked if she'd be interested, and so we worked together to get all of the tools and materials might one of the goals for this, my studio, specifically is ten minutes. Lend itself to a cz many different kind of mediums as possible so I'd be totally open to doing a workshop like this if it was but again, I don't even know exactly what it is so I would have to, you know, do a little b should shock to the instructor more about what we would need to collect to make that kind of workshop happen, but that's, one of the reasons why I got the space that I did toe hopefully be able to do a variety of different workshops that were being presented. So if you guys haven't been to marie space and anybody online it's in oakland it's can craft studio school it's a beautiful space and it was and I've taken a couple classes there and it was super fun e I would concur with that and also follow her on instagram to see to see what's happening. Um anything yeah one thousand say about this I do think way said before it be really nice to know exactly what the what I was going to walk away with as a student and even if that is a list of tools and materials and where to collect those things, I would just know that I walked away with some resource is and then this one thing that I created it just that expectation being that I think is important awesome um so I think I'll take maybe we have a few more questions I know we have one more pitch to look at, but let's do a little break for for questions I know that we potentially have some from online yeah, questions for lisa do solicit feedback from the venue in the students after your course? Absolutely yeah that's really, really important every everyone I work with has their own way of doing things, and I teach it so many different kinds of aeneas which I love doing because that kind of keeps things fresh for me that it's really good to know beforehand, tio what the expectation is to be really clear about that because like west elm has a totally different expectation and marie does and the people that are coming to that class of a totally different expectation than the students that come to marie school so it's good to be really clear about what the expectations are beforehand and then afterwards get feedback I'm always asking, how did that go? Are also how did it sell? Sometimes things sell really quickly. What then you worked best for selling the class? Was it instagram? Was the newsletter list? Was it you know, how many tickets did we sell in a day when we both promoted different things like that are really important and venues love when they haven't instructor that's invested in selling the course to which you should all be but you should all be we want to have partnerships with different places where we teach on the best way to say that you're serious about having a partnership is by talking about the class and really trying to sell the class and promoting the people that you're working with feedback is great if you I was getting email lists to after the class and I tried to email photos photos were taken so that's a really great way to connect with students afterwards asked them what they thought, and a lot of times when you establish great connection to their students, you don't even need to ask their telling you oh, that class grade where I really like this part the best the classic did it west down, people went crazy for the french not that was like the whole wouldn't they it's great, but everyone's like more of that, my could do a whole class on the french thought, well, now I know apparently I could teach his entire class on the french not so I always ask people are really wonderful about telling you what they think and can I ask you just a quick follow up on that? What about negative feedback like have you had an experience where you've gotten, you know, kind of out of not unsolicited but kind of unexpected negative feedback I'll me always any time you do anything on the internet I think people are going to tell you what they think whether you're asking for it or not so that's part of just having your art and what you teach any anything being out there for the masses you know there's there's negative feedback and then there's constructive criticism I try to really look at everything is being constructive and then we'd out like ok, what is about my shoes and what is about actually what I was teaching two different things so and sometimes negative feedback is not something you can hear right away if I get negative comments during a class or after a class sometimes I don't I don't think about that right away I need to kind of get the class out of my system I need to be in a place where it's not so immediate and maybe a week later I can think about it really cost you know that the person might be right maybe that part was a little too long or I should re evaluate or then I can look at the big picture picture and say ok, I've taught this class fifteen times this is the first negative comment I've gotten about this section have I given it wait have I not taught you know a time to move on have a marine elizabeth how do you give and get feedback we tio so I do a postmortem calls with all of my instructors after every class on dh there's a there's a very specific set of questions that we cover we cover all of the metrics like you were saying what worked and what didn't andi because I really like to hear from the instructors specifically creative I've also sends out a post course survey so if you have if you purchase the class you'll get one and if you are a repeat for the class but you did not purchase you'll get a separate one and that's really just because we like to say see, you know if a class connects why did it connect and if it doesn't commit why did it not you know was that the content was that the price of the class? Was it the length of the class things like that? So I'm I agree with lee so like I um I tell the first thing I say when I when I do post calls with the instructor is you know I'm not going to get my feelings hurt maybe inside a little bit but you know for you know for the most part like I want to know and everybody here accretive live we want to know how to make things better on diff if something doesn't work I would rather learn from that then continue to make the same mistake over and over and over again so I'm not quite as formal about this whole process, but I'm often there tio kind of co host the workshop with the instructor, and so I mingle with the students and we talked we I asked them how they heard about the workshop um, have they been here before? I often recognize that somebody's been there been there been at the studio and another time, and then often there are repeat students, so when they come in, they'll say, you know, I really I really appreciate this about this class last class was missing this for me, so I do have that interaction with the students often, but it's, not a very formal process. One thing that lisa, you talked about promotion in partnership on dh that is something that's really important for my studio is that I do want to have ongoing partnership with the instructor, and if we're both promoting that workshop and seen where we know who's drawing like, did you hear about this from lisa's instagram? Where'd you do hear about this from the newsletter from the studio? It's it's I love that there's, that collaborative process, and I think people really appreciate that kind of the community that's grown out of that, so yeah, that's a really all really amazing points, and I would I would add about the feedback that and just kind of reiterate what lisa was saying it's really about taking a step back from from them if you get any negative feedback because in the end it's all about making your class better right? So what can you learn from that experience or what can you learn from that comment and taking it with a grain of salt like you know was the person just may be unhappy with that part of the class for some other reason potentially but you always want to listen to that feedback that you get in some way you might need to wait a little bit of I know I know that for me sometimes I have you know, just take a step back and then like read it the next day or you know, we used to get more formalized written evaluations I think it's hard I think makers in particular you know you're you are so tied up with your own love of the craft and how and you know what you're creating because it's you know it's something that you're putting a lot of blood, sweat and tears into and it's hard sometimes to separate the any constructive criticism that comes tio from us the for you is the artist and you is the teacher and the project as a cz itself and I think that's the that's the thing that's always really hard to do and I would just say, you know try and listen to it with without being defensive and with and just with as much of it like an open mind as possible taking everything that we've said into consideration sometimes it's a bad sometimes is a person who's just had a bad day and sometimes they're pointing out something that is actually a flaw that can be corrected ten students about them that a match making a match I mean my designs are not for everyone and I know that I'm not trying to get them on everyone on my classes aren't for everyone and there's plenty of people other people that teach needlework classes that will be a better match for that students so it's about knowing that do you like what is a good venue for you what's what's a interested population and what you're doing and sometimes you just need to teach and teach and teach and get a lot of different places and a lot of different classes before you kind of figure out who your tribe is yeah and in that same I think you'll see you know, the instructors in the artists like some of them are like that then the workshop tell me what you thought was the best part and what needed what needs some tweaking and then other people you know you gotta wait a few days and then follow up through the email so you need toe know you're artists as well although the wonderful points so I think we're going to read our last online pitch and then we'll take some more questions after that so here we have a jewellery metal working workshop with patricia this introductory classes perfect for anyone who wants to learn the fundamental skills involved in making metal jewelry working and copper nickel and brass sheets and wire each student will be guided through the design and fabrication of several pendants skills covered will include sawing, filing, forming textures petit nas and suffering with a gas fueled torch wow this fun and interactive class will involve many demonstrations and lots of hands on work studio tools and equipment equipment will be available for use to our sessions for eight weeks teens adults level beginner to experienced thanks patricia sounds great anybody wanted to go first that was my first question like that when we got to the very end I was like, wow, this is not a not a one day thing no I know I made sure we kept that in because I don't think that that's something that we've talked we haven't really addressed the idea of a siri's yeah class so this is a good one and that's a good overview of what a class in that area would be first for a serious and eight weeks is eight weeks is pretty pretty I think I've seen it as pretty typical in this in this kind of why wasn't safe for my studio? I don't often do, um, a session like this, partly because I've found that there is a lot of interest in coming one time and collecting the skills and kind of the equipment you need to then go home and continue, but there are some there are great places that do things like this, like a lot of times, community centers will run sessions like this, and I do I do to them every now and again, but this is where you would think about who you're going to pitch this to, like, maybe you wouldn't come to me, but you would come to a community center that's more likely to have, and part of it is because I just have one big studio space I don't have, you know, they're not many different rooms toe operate a lot of workshops at the same time, but this is really specific, and you think you're the student and knows exactly what they're going to learn at the end of thes eight weeks, and I appreciate that there is this the length of the session, the eight weeks who it was for, and yeah, it's, well worded, that's, great, but I think as mary said, it's, very specific, getting I get a really good sense of what I'm going to learn the tools I'm going to be using I think photography and a pitch like this is key especially to engage people who might not know anything about metal work to encourage them this is these air the tool this is what the tools look like these air, some of the projects you're going to be able to make on dh have a skill level for at the end of the course and like mary said, I think site or location is really important with a class like this because you're talking about this is more of a call like a community college type of course, and I think that some for some instructors you know we can do of course like that and we can do a one day thing but sometimes it's different sometimes as part of your you might just be interested in doing three our trunks of classes or this is a whole different game. Bringing people on a journey for eight weeks is a really commitment and you have to have a lot of instructional skill level to take people through the ups and downs that happened just in group dynamics over a period of eight weeks for two hours at a time so no know your limits and know if this is you is an instructor awesome but it does take a lot to bring a group of people through a journey of eight weeks yeah, and I would also add in a pitch like this, I wouldn't be afraid of breaking down what each sex what each session would include so right below this, you could write session one what's the first thing we do design and fabrication or sawing, you know, session once sawing session to filing and then give maybe you could give a few more little details but that's really good also in the vein of doing the work for the person you're pitching tio so that they can have a really clear idea of what this a week session is going to be in each one I also took, I took a several week class I don't remember how long it was, and it was it was in the jewelry making field it was actually taught by a jewelry designer in his retail store when I lived in los angeles, and so that that's another potential partnership not you know there may be somebody if you are if you are jeweler and you're you're the wholesaling your items, there may be a gallery that has your work there maybe you know somebody else that's actually selling your work that may also be open toe hosting those classes too that's a really good point? Yeah, well, thank you so much, patricia um so I wanted to see if we have any questions I just wanted to make sure that everybody in the audience here in the in studio audience had a chance to get their pitches well, thank you lily do you guys does anybody have one who hasn't shared one that wants to I have ah have kathy both project and technique and I have to use my phone because you know your problem myself problem why don't we just hear one you're want tio that um and I would I'm going to kind of really embellished this now that I know a few more things I should have added but so the class name is vintage style bottle brush trees okay and the age or they're not age the skill level would be all levels and um we'll also started the description so students will learn to craft vintage style trees from sisal robe in various shapes and sizes they will learn to explore different methods of coloring trees including die in paint fibers they're going to fly in power tools will be used students will be excited to use their newfound tree skills for crafting a limitless supply of trees for holiday and everyday displays thank you I actually need more information about what the trees look like so this is always a terrible question for me I fight like if I've never done it I always want to know what it looks like so I have photos lots of photos it's been done and stuff so and then a lot of people maybe who again sort of like the vessel project if they know joy they might know what vessel is if you know something crafting your work with the digital flight you know what it's like a vintage bottle brush trees that were pretty populist sixties that we could actually make them by hand and make topiaries and so also demonstrations of a lot of different but these are things I would write in that that I'll have examples of ways to use them and different bases that could be used were you thinking that this would be a holiday bookshop? It doesn't have to be because the trees can be very themes holiday specific because obviously you could do a lot of christmas tree crafts with them but halloween is very popular with this and I also have created a technique to make small topiary trees so they're great for weddings centerpieces and it is that it really is a draft of spinning wire and rope to make the trees and then um manicuring them into shape because I know you're thinking yeah what do you like it like faisal peaceful way and I was like I got stuck back there yeah, I really kind of goes do the assume that your reader like don't assume they're a moron but assume that they don't they just don't know what you're talking about I said they don't have access to the photo yeah, well, you know, I mean, yeah, I think if you yeah, I think you're right, I think ifit's I think if the photos attached it's a totally different different thing, the thing that I do think just talking about the holiday versus wedding, I think, like, showing how they can be used in separate ways because it is the first thing I thought of two was that it was a holiday specific craft. I do think that with some, if you it might be good to get, gain an audience around a holiday and then maybe once there's the interest at the specific place you're teaching that then and they see photographs on, you know, whatever social media, then maybe they'll be interested to use it, just as, like, a general craft that they can use, you know, all those different fridays, but you might want to target that holiday because people are looking for that, maybe, and I am teaching an upcoming holiday class where in the morning we're going to do the trees so it's, sort of a two part, and then the afternoon we actually create a holiday display with that. Yeah, you know, and again, the photo really speaks, but I might want to work on a description that doesn't require a photo? Well, I think when you started to talk about the materials that are used to create the tree that's when I could kind of visualize what it might look like, so being specific about materials might be helpful and you can see two like everybody is very different and how they're taking it when something, you know, so some people, some people, like everybody starts visualizing the crafted a very different point in the pitch. I wanted to know more about the tools I was really curious. I like that you said rope was going to fly and power way about, so I think you could elaborate a little bit more about the race for the place I want to teach up so that they know because I think part of the mystery are part of the fun is in the mystery of we're going to use power tools what's that about, and I wonder if that the tease and that's good or not good, yeah, it's sort of to me, that might be the difference between, like, of course, description for the audience versus, of course, a strict description for the teacher because I don't want there to be any mystery when somebody was somebody usually a pitch I don't want I don't want to get anything I want you to tell me exactly what it is, and then the mystery part is a little bit more of a like a marketing technique for the for the public, especially with electrical equipment, because, like tio, do you have to go outside? And then on the opposite side of that, I actually have a workshop space where I would welcome teachers in and so the last one that they were doing the jewelry, I just wanted to comment on that because that really caught me when that just a combination of teens and torches, I kind of had me a little edgy and so and I know adults had left them on and caused accidents in a studio, so I was, um I was just curious, you know? I don't do kid crafts and teen crafts, and I think it's I think it's just my natural mom thing about someone could get hurt maybe, and I'm not too worried about adult you and the kids that's something that is obviously something we think about, but you'd be surprised how how, how kids can do more than you think that they can, and I just haven't taught them. Yeah, yeah, and I know for example, like so sewing machines you you have you basically you slow down the there's, a button to slow down the speed and you like tape that thing that way so that they can actually move at a faster pace like government. I mean, so there's ways toe like, make sure you're not sending them out with, like, a chainsaw into the wild, you know what I was going to say about the power tools that a lot of people like kind of an introductory class to power tools, so I think see how you might be using as a tease, but I think letting them know what skills they're going toe leave with, including if that's going to be using the powers so might entice some people not only they learned that craft, but they're getting their hands on something they've been intimidated to do otherwise. So I think that could be a benefit. I have to say, maybe because it was the era that I grew up, I was thought I could do anything when I was interested in it, and I think, man, I know one guy set like, but I think you should learn when you're young so that you learn the respect that there's of the tool because once you're an adult and you don't know that, then you've already learned bed you habits, I'd rather get a kid. To show them a knife as sharp and says is there sharp and give them the right tool and teach them the right way to do it when they're little because there's people other than america there's little kids they do the dishes they do the chores they a lot of kids in rough classes do you know they're they're actually safer than the old yeah you know, because they're taught not to run with scissors where is some of the adults you know wander way adults pretty bad habit you think teaching kids at a young age to use sharp objects you actually are getting them at a good at a good time you know and still he's going to have it is there anyone you guys haven't shared a pitch to? What does that we're not gonna e gonna happen yeah part went on that yeah. Um okay, so maybe what susan has hers I know you said that you kind of wanted to change it change it and I'll tryto I kind of had a little little bit along the way as well um read it for you. Thank you. This is for kathy high caffeine this is for a project that's it's like three hours long um it was so fun to meet you at creative live and hear more about your inspired barn in petaluma the possibility of partnering up on a craft is so exciting and like you, I prefer to provide all the materials to my students. My segment of the day students will make a colorful sasha conspired pouch sasha coz and ancient stow stitching technique that looks complex but it's fabulously simple one students learn to follow the stitch path check out the link to our web site for a photo of the pouch project. Thank you for considering our proposal. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. Well, I think, like we took what, like we talked about before, that that actually is very that's actually really helpful, and that starts me again thinking about what, what we're going to learn, I always like for in person classes. I like doing a lot of those, you know, where you're just sitting in stitching because it actually ends up where your once you kind of get the technique down, it's also, it also becomes really social on a lot of fun, so I like, I like taking those kinds of classes with, you know, a friend or two, and then you make friends with everyone else. I think that's a really good example of being super specific in your pitch and who you're pitching to like exactly what you want to do is especially if it's someone that you've met and you've had a discussion with remind them that you know we talked about this or I've been to your location or I've taken a class here before that was really well done I would suggest putting a little photo of the project in there you can also have the link but just having something click that can be associated with the class is really great yeah yeah I agree that I like that you have a link it's always nice I actually do get e mails sometimes with you know I'm a needle filter and eventually teaching a class and I'm like oh ok can I know it's a little bit more not too so just even having a link to an image is great um and that you gave a tiny little background about what the method was and where it came from on dh what the project was it's a nice to begin the conversation between you two so let's say I send in email letter whatever it is and I don't hear anything and there's crickets out there I mean is it you know, in the recruiting world or if I was looking for a job you know there's usually a call to action for the person looking for the job and so should I say I'll call you next week or I'll follow up next week with another email because I assume you're all very busy people like I am so maybe you didn't see it in or being pesty by my following I think you should follow up I get inundated with e mails at certain times it's funny there's like a folk and I missed some for sure and I try to start the mall and get back to people but I do miss them and so I definitely suggest following up and I know sometimes it's hard I mean, I sometimes we'll reach out to an artist and not get at not getting me anything back and it's hard not to take personally you get you know, like oh, I guess they're not interested in the studio but sometimes they just have way too much in their in box so I think and I have followed up the second time they've gotten a response yeah, that is great and sometimes to approaching someone on a different that this is one of the reasons why social media is really great, right? If someone posts a photo say, oh, I'd be interested in in teaching here how can I get in touch? Sometimes someone will put their email up there I have a friend who's, a blogger that uses twitter all the time to work on getting emails for to make partnerships with companies just hey someone so how can I get in touch with you know how you work with bloggers? Whatever so sometimes if you send an email and the place or the person you're interested in is posting or active on social media, they hi, I'm interested in doing how do I get in touch? And then that kind of sets a reminder if someone contacts me on instagram or twitter or something and then they send me an email, I I'm remembering that on sort of a couple different playing fields I'm saying ok, okay, and don't worry about feeling like you're, you know, pestering because as long as you're being yourself and you're being nice and you're just being, you know, not pushy or anything that's totally fine it's like it's a reminder, it's just another hole that's, right? Of course, yeah, the only thing I would say is if you send it and then I get another email within twenty four hours that to me is actually a red flag of how to deal with that particular person because I, you know, I am like you guys like I can't respond to every single email immediately, especially with with pitches often I need time to kind of look at it and think about what questions I might have are so you know, for me it like it's helpful if, like a week or two goes by, and if I haven't been able to get back to that person, if they if they pop up again, then that feels more appropriate yeah that's a really good point and and I've always kind of been under the impression that the best days of the week to email people are like tuesday through thursday agreed so emailing on a monday morning or e mailing on a friday afternoon I would you try to avoid just because of the chances of it disappearing I think are much greater yes is there a time you know now it seems like everything's like a time I like I like I like where did they like? Yeah like a time of day yeah, I don't know I don't know but I think the tuesday through thursday rules actually pretty good because normally I could my work day here normally monday is you kind of deal with anything that is immediate for that week or anything that may have happened over the weekend that's urgent for a production and on fridays you're just sort of trying to catch up and get you know it's clean stuff up off your to do list for the weekend it's a really good point do we have any questions lily from online? Yes, we dio here one question was how do you measure success for a class you know? I mean for me personally I think there's a lot of different ways to measure success I think there's is the is the content good is the number one thing that I look for has the person been able tio articulate what we're what we're learning actually teeth and did the students really enjoy it? That's me is far always everything else on dh then after that there's always, you know, did it sell really well, did it? You know, was there a lot of chatter on social media is, you know, those kinds of things, but to me the content is number one, I think there's a lot of hits and misses in this formula, so we were just talking about this before in my teaching, I've been teaching so many different things for so long that just specifically with the needlework classes, I mean, I've had classes where three people have shown up and, you know, now I sell out classes, so my arc is an instructor really depends on so many to think sometimes it depends on are people who want to take my classes do they want to take my class because they happen to like, what I'm designing at the time? And maybe it doesn't have so much to do with what I'm teaching other times it has to do with what I'm teaching and not so much about what my brand is doing, so there's like kind of all these different burners on the stove at the same time so I would say, try not to get the number of students in your head, which can be hard because we feel is an instructor responsible for, you know, generating money for ourselves, but also for a location, so if you can find a location that says, ok, you know, hey, we want to run the class, even if there's three to five students, that for an instructor, is great experience, I would always recommend do it, you know, because if if you're feeling like not caught up in the numbers, it's a great experience for you, you have a totally different teaching experience than you would for fifteen or twenty people toe have five, and the students will walk away with a really personalized experience and it's, great for your skill set, because you're going to have time and space to go different places and see, ok, so if I'm talking about this stitch and we have time and I'm not tending to twenty different people, where can this go? You sort of follow a thread that sometimes you come up with a whole different class idea just on that experience. So from my perspective, it's always worthwhile, but it's really be like you were saying beforehand as well, like they can those few people can then also be evangelists for your brand, which is another big reason that people teach like a lot of people teach because they want to get their brand out there likely citizen, you know, if even if there's only three or you know three or four people, those people will then go away and say, oh my god, have you seen her stuff it's really amazing? Plus I got to learn from her and then that's a totally different relationship with an artist, then with somebody that you just purchased their, you know, purchasing necklace from a store. I think the number one way to judge the success is how satisfied the students are, and again that can be to students or that can be twenty students and my experience at the studio some of it, of course, it's really nice for the instructor and exciting for me as the owner of the studio toe see that a class is sold out and that there's that great interest in both the artist and the studio, but sometimes the best classes are those four or five person classes and I'm always willing to run a class even if it has a low enrollment because if two people come in the classes of super success, those two people will be back and hopefully they'll both bring a friend so I think it's that then, being sadist in being excited about what they learned and excited about experience is really the number and success more than the numbers, and also and also the instructor of being satisfied, like really feel like they shared a skill and it was well received and well respected and just that they, you know, I think you get excited about about your work again and excited that you shared it and so that's, another success. The other thing we were talking about before, before we came on there is don't necessarily get discouraged if you teach a class one time and it's not a like, you know, barn burning success, there's a lot of times where, you know, sometimes a craft will be invoke and it'll, you know, be really exciting, and then all of a sudden, nothing happens. There's also times of the year, like august, we were just talking about august, people are getting ready to get their kids back to school, you know, in december, people are worried about holidays and holiday parties and everything else, and they're not going toe they're not going to make time for those classes, so you know, don't I would I would hesitate to use that as a metric of success. Yeah I often if one class doesn't go for some reason often we try it at a different time of day you know different month of the year and then after it doesn't go twice maybe we'll talk about riek configuring it somehow are looking for another class of that possible in structure could teach but even if a class is canceled I don't think it's getting no it's not a success we just need a kind of be a lot more creative about how you present it may be yeah and I would also add also if you're doing a project class just because your students don't finish the project doesn't make it a unsuccessful class it's all about determining whether they had a good time on whether they've enjoyed what they've done so far and if they have to go home and finish a step to complete that project it's not a failed class by any means um lily is wondering if we had any more questions or how are you doing I thinkit's wearing great it's been an amazing panel super super helpful and the last question we have here a creative lives if you have any parting thoughts for people yeah they go forward and pitch venues and start teaching yeah do you guys have any last tidbits? Maybe you could even share like one thing not to dio are something comes into your lives well this is something to do I um I really appreciate as the studio opened I was contacting artists and instructors that I knew to come teach at the studio and at this point a lot of people come to come to the studio and I really appreciate that because you know they have a new idea and it kind of grows the what the scheduled workshops in organic way so you're not only teaching what is on trend or what you know there's interesting but all these other mediums that I didn't even know existed so don't feel intimidated to contact anybody on dh if they don't contact you back try again um and it may be successful it may not but really I appreciate when somebody comes to me because you know they're going to follow through you know they're really passionate about what they're doing so definitely have that confidence to go out and picture ideas I was you know, your limits in life and as an instructor know your limits it's really important you don't have to teach every age group you don't you don't want to teach kids don't teach kids you know when I teach two adults don't teach to adults you work best with five students say that's how you work best to work best with one hundred students say that's how you work best you work best in three hours over eight weeks whatever it is no your level of expertise and where your comfort zone is and sell that and if someone comes to you and says oh you know you pitched this idea for a pendant setting but we're really looking for someone to do this part of jewelry making if you're comfortable with that say yes if you're not say no or maybe it's yes I can do that but instead of fifteen people it needs to be five these are all things that are going to make for a successful class and that's what everybody wants and I would say definitely do your research like I think that the biggest thing I see with pitches coming into me are people who have done a very, very cursory perusal of the creative five website and it does take time like it takes time to go through and see what the place that you're that you are pitching to has offered in the past what they're offering in the future but taking the time then is going to make your pitch stand out and it will also make the whoever is receiving it take it more seriously that's great I would just want to say again to you guys thank you so much for coming in I know that our audience both in the studio and online has appreciated hearing from you guys that was such an amazing amount of information don't you agree lilly oh my gosh it was unbelievable thank you always a wonderful panel super helpful like I said before and red. Scorpio had a comment. She said, great tips. I'll be using them in my next pitch. Great. So you've already inspired people to go out there and teach.