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Pattern Interviewing Roleplay

All right, so let's talk about, um, pattern interviewing first. They were looking to hire anybody right now. Okay. And so why don't you tell me about the candidate? We're gonna do a little role play with you? You can sit there for now, but they will bring up in second. Tell me who you're looking for. Aziz. An employee. What's this person gonna be doing? What's their responsibilities? Number one. I need them to be listing thing so they have to pay attention to detail. Okay. What? Zuraimi listings. Your title for this job, by the way. Uh, Lister there a lister. I love it. Okay, so we're hiring a lister. Okay, so they're gonna list things that means they're gonna post advertisements. They're gonna post the items that I have for sale. So detail inequality to do. This task is detail warranted. Whether tasks will they have to do, uh, they will have to photograph the item photograph. They'll have Teoh type up the Adam, so they have toe like a summary of it. A summary. Okay, um, read labels, b...

ecause if I'm selling a ah little model Corvette car in 1963 on the bottom, it will have all the serial numbers and the things that the collectors, they're gonna Okay, So they they have read and copied on details. Okay, Anything else? Be able to analyze the condition of an item. So if something is uh, used, it has a spot, like a jack of that I'm selling. And there's a spot on the sleeve. They have to be able to notice it and put that into the description. Okay, good. So infers more things, and this is this is perfect theater. The task. Now let's talk about the qualities were needed for listing for you to do listing. You'll be very detail oriented for you to do photography three. Artistic or what's What's the terms? Identify that, um, they need be ableto take something in focus. It's not really high high product photography, but it is something that's clear. And you can pick it up because you are the eyes, the photographs of the eyes of the buyer online. Okay, so they have to be able to photograph the proper angles and stuff to represent the product. Is that it? So Okay, so it's you need that photograph skills, but sounds like you have to understand positioning and, uh, angles Eso You might put a shirt on a mannequin and and take the front and back and the label on the on the caller. Okay, so the quality. Okay, so you have to understand how product represents itself and just pretty sure enough on a table versus a mannequin may be different in the angles are different. So the positioning and angles of Tyree lighting maybe lighting the ability to just lights. Okay, Um, what about summary writing? To not be over? Uh, you know, they instead of it's a beautiful pumpkin. Instead just really describing the 12 inch pumpkin. It's orange. And to really just be factual. Okay, factual. That's a great word. Doesn't put mechanical factual is even better. Okay, And we can keep going. But I think I understand the process here. When we start looking for candidates, most of its ignore this part. We sometimes say we need a detail or in person that can do listings, take photographs, summary and stuff thes air the tasks we really want the qualities and this is the intangibles. This is what we can train them. This side. This is the stuff they come into the interview with. Yet 90% of interviewing is around tasks, and about 1 to 10% is around qualities. So now what we do is we would do what's called a pattern interview. Andi, I'll explain that Mabel Brakes went up and actually interviewing for this job for you. Um, I found this. I discovered this a couple of years back when I was working with a perspective client. He came to me and they wanted to do a big project with With Me is actually before Dawn and I started consulting practice. They want to do something outside that, and it was interesting on git was within my niche. So I was really interested, and why I decided was I wanted to interview this client first because the commitment that they would make financially was significant and be over a year's time frame. So I wanted to learn about this guy's behavior and stuff. Well, what happened was presented stuff. There was an opportunity for us to go out and play. There's a charity going on and play pool or not poker on and the rule that table, not stuff. It was this for charity, so you put in like $50 that went to charity and you got these chips. And in the night they have some prizes like, you know, golf outing or something. So we did this. What was fascinating about this? Guys were playing roulette. I saw that there was an extra chips on table and he's grabbed him and starts playing chips that weren't his. They were just kind, see on the side, and that caught my attention. And I think, What's he doing? What? Later that night, he took chips from somewhere else and did the same thing. And at the other night, I asked him. So I took some chips. He's got Doesn't matter. It's a small thing, is just having some fun? Who cares? It does matter what we do in one instance, we do. In all instances, we, as humans are, are animals of patterns. We repeat our behaviors over and over again, and what we did today, we're likely to do tomorrow. The phrases in terms I used today I used tomorrow use them repeatedly. The ways I act, the way responded. Things repeats itself. I decided not to do business with him. It was like If if in that one little instance he's wanted take a few coins off the table When doesn't matter what if it doesn't matter how many coins are gonna come off the table? And I walked away from that? Well, the truth is, and when it comes to interviewing, the same thing plays out. We should be looking for people's behavioral pattern and interviewing always set him up for victory. We interview someone say, Hey, you know, we're looking for a detail or into guy. Are you detail oriented? Yes, of course, right. And we say, Well, good, that's great photography. You know, one thing is you need to take pictures and stuff and always different angles so we can represent a product. What? Your capabilities in this area I'm very good by way of a fine artist is perfect for May I mean whoa to for what? Over two. Let's see if this guy's factual. You ever write down details? We need really detail running to the stuff. Sure, I would have lots of facts as the doctors, I told him, six foot two. All the date doesn't need. I'm like, Oh my God, hire this guy. That's the normal interviewing process. We actually set up the interview it to win. They know what the answers are. Just answer the way that the employer wants us to hire. Well, I'm telling. Don't interview around the task, interview around the details and ask them about behaviors. In the past. A different interview would run like this. Now this is This is a pattern for a different view, But let's do it for Anne's. We need someone's detail oriented. We want to see how this person demonstrated detail in the past and when you interview the person. This is true for employees or contractors or a virtual assistant you're using two days of a month or two hours a month we want to do is see if this person show this behaviour in the past and show that they show this behaviour repeating. So I'd say something in Travis. You don't mind booting university on an interview for suspicion? Would you mind coming up your about Teoh? See if you're a lister, You may not be a rock builders there a rock assembler. You're a lister. So I want to learn a little about your background. Ok, um um the high school. I'm sure. Right. How was I supposed? You like it? Uh, no, I didn't like it. Really interesting. Why? Didn't want anything high school. I'm just a lot of forced stuff that I wasn't relevant to my life. Yeah, like what was forced in high school? Just everything. The whole curriculum was forced, and I didn't want to learn any of yeah. Not to imagine most of very mechanical. Did you have, like, English class and math and the basics. Right. Which one is the worst of all? Those from your experience being your creative? Definitely maths. Did it really? Why don't you, like you're just trying to stop me on this, but I just It's just my brain doesn't work. Think that I don't think analytically. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about structure in the English. I remember my English class. My teacher, actually, family wants got me very upset because I think I wrote something was really good, but she said I didn't follow the structure she wanted. Did you ever have experiences like that in English? To everything I always kind of go. Not where I'm supposed to be. Okay. Yeah, I've actually served you well in life. I mean, I know you're fine artists and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I stayed true to myself with that. Yet at the same time, it's not what they wanted. Yeah, interesting. Interesting. So in the interview, continue like this. But here's what's forming is, you know, I'm trying to get some information out, so it's a little bit uncomfortable in an interview. Zach sitting position. They know we're looking for something. The key is to ask questions where there is no wrong response. He does anything wrong. He's talking truthfully about himself, and I'm discovering something. I'll tell you one thing. He's not a good lister because I'm listen factual like in rule telling in detail. He's like, No, I don't like math and English Not good for this role. Amazing for what you dio and good job. You're doing it, But I'm looking for patterns. An interview like this would normally go for 30 minutes, 40 minutes. If he is a good candidate based upon his historical behavior, I would then invited back and do it again about around another interview, just to see if he was trying to game the system a little bit. Yeah, I just like to offer an example where I used something like this when I was on a committee for an organization that was hiring someone that was going to be in a role of significant responsibility. And the interesting thing was, this wasn't actually an interview situation. It was more of, ah, casual get, like, kind of get to know the person situation. So it wasn't a formal interview, but what I noticed as we were getting, you know, we were kind of asking questions about his life and his former jobs. And I noticed a pattern of a lack of taking responsibility for things. So every kind of everything that we discussed, it was, Well, this happened and it was somebody else's fault, and that became a red flag. But if if I hadn't have spoken to him about a number of different areas of his life, that pattern would not have showed up. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So with his interview, we continue knows will continue on a little bit. That's okay. Uh, what was your first job after school or Rumi during school? Maybe actually a machinist. Like working on a Les than stuff like that. Okay, I'll quote. What, were you going cutting, like steal or would Yeah, both actually was making these huge shutters of for up in Aspen. Okay. How did you like that job? Something good job was good, actually taught me a lot of hard work ethic in tow. Like, um, finish the job all the way through. But I definitely did feel like, like, kind of a robot. And I do not like, yeah, I suspect, like, were you able express creativity and kind of change things up or is it has to be? Well, I mean, because I didn't have that experience really was kind of someone that just needed to do the task. I kind of felt that I was a little bit kind of hampered at that company where there have been a better position. Like a designer, maybe, or cat guy or something. Um, there could have been, but it was kind of a smaller company. And it was just this one guy that needed this extra statue. You had to do that role so you can start seeing his pattern right? We got a creative type here. We also in the Travis's in April. There's no question. We have a player, but not for this role. And this is what Donald tells the right person doing the right things right? So through this behavioral pattern interview, we know where he's not. If it but we also are building our local the batting box. But the reserve, someone said. Interview, interview, interview. I got a rock star here that I'm putting massive creative. If I need some artistic work done, call Travis immediately an interview again. That's how it works. Thank you. You can sit back down. Thanks to appreciate. Thanks for an interesting comment. Come in from online, Misty says. I get incredibly sweaty hands during an interview, and the reason I say letting you know about her comment is because I think a lot of people get nervous and interviews. And how do you take that into perspiration? And I get nervous, right? And maybe she is the right person. But she's so nervous. How do you know she's the employee or the employer sees the entrepreneurs? I'm thinking that in this case, when she's saying when she is being interviewed, when she's the employee, she gets very So here's the gun industry on either side. We are seeking the ultimate relationship. I mean, if he is true to who he really is, and I'm true to who I really am and we don't match. We want identify that now. So he confined where he's a rock star. So as an employee when you're interviewing, you want to just reveal the real you like how Travis's interviewed was awesome because he filtered. If I have tried to said, Yeah, you know, I took, I took school and I started a little bit here. But, you know, I bear down and I'm a detail guy. I love details. I love me and Mr Robot. I was like, I would may hire this guy and he would have been miserable. He would never excelled. So as an employee being just truthful, truthful and honest about how you are, you'll find a better job for yourself. Faster you filled yourself out. Ironically, is an employer being truthful about what you're looking for? The same thing happens. There's so much dancing around and showmanship and interviews because we want toe work. No, we want to find the right relationship. That's what's about, and we have to know that employees may be non educated in being truthful about themselves. Most people think they have the plane to the facade of society. Therefore, as the entrepreneurs who know this, we have to look for their true behavior behind with the presenting. They're not bad people, we've just been told. I mean, there's whole classes about interviewing. It's insane. Where the suit like this do exactly that. Don't be yourself be this mechanical machine that interviews. That's what are in perspective. Employees have been taught, and we have to get behind that and this pattern interviewing. So here's a couple areas you can look at responsiveness to, and you put in here whatever you want. Detail oriented, everything you're qualified for factually responses. Person to being given fax and expected to comply with facts. Then you go through just how I started telling about your high school experience. High school. Every employee that you ever interviewed has probably gone through high school. It's a great spot start parent Erin has a parent. Tell me about your relationship. Your parents sometimes a little dangerous, and you gotta make sure you speak with your attorney first because there's some relational issues. You can't talk about. But if it's fair game, very interesting stuff will be revealed. Do they play sports or something like that? They participate. What was your relation of you if you were the captain? What was your relationship to the team? If you weren't? What's your relationship? Tell me about your employment. So we hit thes two spots and there's more. But Travis's pattern and every single one of our patterns plays out in all these spots solving problems independently, and I go through the exact same kind of scenario. Say, Hey, tell me, Look for problems. He's experience of school work and I want to know in this interview Is he ableto address it independently? Or does he need someone to come in and give him some kind of management to help along? And I go through all these different spots. I look for a recurring pattern. Sometimes you get a one time blip like Travis has said, You know, I just high school was horrible, and I found out I couldn't stand it. Then I asking about the rest of his career and stuff, and I see wow every single time. He's actually is very detail oriented. He likes repetition, repetitive work. What happened to high school? And I find out, well, someone has finally passed away during this period or there's some grievance or something dramatic that happens life, and it forced his behavior to change during that period of time. And then he readjusted. So that's why you don't just look for one instance. You look for that pattern to vowed to validate itself over and over and over again. It's called Pattern interviewing any other. Any questions about that comments? I think I actually one of my own cause. I'd really like to know about this because you're talking here about asking questions about sports team, pair of team captains, parents, etcetera. I was in an interview situation once, where Lady I was interviewing said something about her husband. So I said, Oh, is he in the same field? And third is real casual question. She filed a complaint. After that, I'd asked a question about her husband, and I was in big trouble, even though she brought him up. So how much of this can you really go into? It doesn't depend in different situations. The rest of stories your shoe slipped off in your foot whenever leg. I wasn't aware of that. Yes, there is a lot of HR regulation behind. You should definite speak with an employment lawyer. Even as a small business speak with an employment lawyer. It's worth the one hour conversation that will set you up for every interview. Often you can't talk about marital status. You can't talk about age all these discriminatory rules. So you have to be very careful about that. In fact, I don't know it all. And before we do serious interviews for any of our employment, we will do some research before interviewing someone because of that. Well, from the chat rooms we got, somebody was asking about on situation and then we have sort of a counter balance to that brute. Camp was saying that they be worried if you train this person this way, they will soon start his or her own eBay store. When she learns all the things that you do right. But I think that one right just saying on the on the other side of that, hiring people that are smarter than you always you need to abandon your ego, be humble. Your investment is in hiring towards the future, which will benefit you always. Yes, absolutely. Is exactly how you answered it. If I had my druthers, I would have somebody for about two years because it would take about two years to be a mentor for them to be able to have all aspects of it. And having known, you know, how long it took to get to where I am now, let him go for teaching Bay to really, really difficult to do. Yeah, I love that. I love that response. And there's a lot of truth. Yeah, I also say, if you were hiring the right person and you have a great relationship than that person may love working with you so much that they'll that they'll stay with you and even if they don't, you have a good relationship. But there is this fear that people are, you know, kind of have this ulterior motive. But I believe strongly that this type of interviewing filters those people out and brings in the people who share your immutable laws or similar things that if you talk about the team captain and you played sports and so the idea of ah work relationship for me is the team aspect. Exactly. And so it doesn't mean that you have to go be the fastest runner or you were the best tennis player. But it is. It is the idea that they're on board together and that we can help each other. Yes, if I fall down, you pick me up. Or if somebody isn't there that day, that kind of thing, that's excellent. And that's it. That's equality rights. It was in the old pager defined qualities like independence and certain ways. You want them behaves. You interview for that, By the way, we may want interview for very entrepreneur people, and I'll get to one section. There's people who come to me and say, Mike, I wish my employees were more entrepreneurial. Okay, higher entrepreneurs, but recognize the tradeoff? Entrepreneurs or people that also want start their own business. So your business is really not an incubator like and suggesting two years you're gonna get trained up and they're gonna spend often start their own thing, but maybe can change your business model, whereas they spent often do their own thing. You support that a little bit. Have a piece of the action if you really, if you want people that are going to stick with you the long you know for a long term for the rest of their life as an employee there probably not the entrepreneur type. Most people aren't were the weirdos, by the way, where the weirdos most people aren't sitting home right now are in the studio working on their business, most of our working for other people or the lack jobs, and that's cool so most people don't behave that way. Most people do want to work within a structure and like that, and you can interview in Aspen in another life. I was executive with Macy's free and 1/2 years, we did a lot of hiring, and I found if I took them out of that traditional interview setting and took them onto the cells for and if I bent over and was like holding a table of clothing, and if they didn't bend over and help me, I immediately didn't hire them because that was that pattern of behavior that you're looking for. And there's Ways Week, I think bring that into any interview, do something and watch how they're behaving next to you. Awesome awesome to be in on our online community sharing tips like that. That killer rate clearly didn't bend over and help me didn't hide. It. Didn't matter how awesome you were didn't make a difference to me. Remember, we said appeal. Speak the truth in a while. It's not their words. Yesterday, people speak truth to their actions, not their words. When I saw that guy stealing chips, I knew for him is okay to bend the rules a lot in a charity situation. You saw that someone wasn't willing to help out, or you saw people that just jumped down right and every serving huge. When I hire employees, I always suggest a trial run, and this is part timers and even virtual assistants. I brought in a virtual assistant. I say Have a project that's gonna last One week after one week, we'll sit down and ends. But Miami all future work for you. I can't guarantee it that way. After one week, I can observe their their work behavior, and then, after one week, I re evaluate. Sometimes I accept to three months over three months and then extended into a more permanent play. But by putting those default breaks in there, you can see how people actually behave