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Worth It: Negotiation for Creatives

Lesson 10 of 29

Design Meeting Example

Ted Leonhardt

Worth It: Negotiation for Creatives

Ted Leonhardt

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Lesson Info

10. Design Meeting Example


  Class Trailer
Now Playing
1 The Dilemma Duration:42:18
2 The Resolution Duration:35:44
7 The White Board Process Duration:31:16
8 The Dyslexic Advantage Duration:12:38
  Class Trailer
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1 Core Principle: Inquiry Duration:31:49
4 Turnstyle Team Example Duration:30:02
6 Time with Karen Moskowitz Duration:43:53
7 Core Principle: Time Duration:34:03
8 Core Principles: Behavior Duration:26:20
9 Interview with Keith Brofsky Duration:30:34
10 Q and A with Keith Brofsky Duration:15:41
  Class Trailer
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1 Core Principle: Context Duration:21:07
2 Interview with Devin Liddell Duration:28:06
3 Context Exercise Duration:33:45
4 Core Principle: Planning Duration:31:54
5 Pounding the Table Duration:39:24
6 Core Principle: Bullying Duration:28:55
8 Core Principle: Conclusion Duration:49:22
9 Core Principles: Recap Duration:17:26

Lesson Info

Design Meeting Example

Endorsement very very important so your virtuous cycle is working the messages were going out and guess what happens somebody specs and recommend you for an opportunity and when your recommended it's really really powerful I'm gonna tell you a quick a quick story when you are recommended your experience basically is enhanced so I was twenty three years old I was working in my first job as a design illustrator in house of the boeing company uh had a baby on the way with newly married had a baby on the way ah wasn't make quite enough money to afford the baby and everything else and I kind of asked my supervisor in the art group that I worked in if there's any way I could get any extra money could I get a raise? You know I was only like six months into my first job right out of art school and he liked me and so he said well I can't get your raise but maybe I could get you some freelance action and then lo and behold he called me into his office one day and said some friends of mine who wo...

rked for nicholson manufacturing uh need an illustration of a log eating machine and they called me and asked me to recommend an illustrator who could do an illustration for this machine that they were coming out with and could you go down there and and meet with them so I called up I called nicholson manufacturing and made an appointment and went to their office is a few days later and you know, it was one of those classic I mean it basically looked like this it was one of those in dust real settings and they were meant building these giant machines and had an office that was in like a little old house and was out in front of the factory and went into the little house and had the dusty wood floor and the receptionist he kind of behind the old desk and she immediately ushered me and to meet with a group of engineers in a conference room and when I was carrying my portfolio and I was worried about, you know, showing my portfolio because I really didn't have any work that fit this particular opportunity and my illustrations really weren't particularly good and I was a little uneasy about them and I think it I think that's a recurring theme here and uh uh and I was planning to, you know, show them my work and, you know, explain my credentials for how I could do do this job. And but I noticed a zai walked into the room that the drawings for the machine were already spread all out on the table and pinned up on the wall and these two guys were wanting to tell me about their machine, so I didn't show my portfolio I simply began asking them questions about this machine, how they would do the illustration, how with how they would use the illustration what they expected, what their timing wass how it actually worked did they wanted people in the illustration did they want it to be in color or black and white? And they opened up and told me excitedly about hold the engineering behind this machine and why it was going to be a big success in the marketplace and we all got very excited about the opportunities and I described how I would illustrate it and I would put trees in it and we'd have a logging truck and maybe a crew and they really described the machine carefully and gave me all the material and photographs that I could use a scrap and I said, okay, um uh I think this will take me about maybe six weeks to do and, uh, one thousand dollars um how does that sound listen, great to do the job. So basically, the endorsement gave me all the credentials that I needed to get the assignment and thousand dollars was about what an illustrator in seattle charge for an illustration at that time not a student, you know, right out of school, but because I had showed interest in in their drawings and their machine and what the opportunity was plus the endorsement I was in and if I had showed my portfolio, I probably wouldn't have gotten the job because I had nothing like it, and I was pretty much clueless about how the illustration would be done, so that just shows the power of the endorsement. It also shows having the sensitivity to pick up and change your plan in the moment when you see that the context has changed from what you expected it to be. So I expected to show my portfolio and make a presentation of my work and what I did in in in instead was asked them about what their needs were in what the opportunity wass so by showing interest and the endorsement very powerful, I had the job. So when you are recommended, your experience is enhanced. So lesson number one, my virtuous cycle was working even there even then and number two make your presentation fit. The circumstances that you encounter make your presentation fit, the circumstances that you encounter. All right, we're going to show another video now, and this is a complicated one, and I'm going to everybody has to really pay attention to this. This is a scenario that was filmed in a studio as you khun steve from the still shot uh, alfa group, which is a gigantic corporation think of it being like general electric. A gigantic worldwide organization, that's very old dates back to the industrial revolution but makes jet engines today as well as light bulbs and everything else alfa group has purchased charge it which is an invention for an astounding fifty billion dollars charge. It will dramatically this extend the use of anything powered by a battery. A better world design, which is a design agency, is one of two finalist for the product and brand design assignment one of two finalists so there's a competition here and what you will see in this clip is the alfa group team. In other words, the corporate team, the buyers of design services uh you will see the alfa group team and later tomorrow you will see the better world team prepare independently and then they will meet to negotiate a deal. So the first clip is alfa group's team doing their planning that's what you'll see and the members of these teams, uh the alfa group team lower right, ted is the senior vice president of marketing. You probably recognize him, charles, you probably recognize him as well. Now charles is the senior v p of purchasing and purchasing. Agents are always tough, so you can see that charles is frowning and tabatha is the director of design and she's brand new to alfa group and the three of them are planning how they're goingto what they're going to do in their meeting with the design agency okay, so this is a planning meeting, so I want you to take note of the questions that I'm going to show you in a minute I'll put them back up after I run the video and prepared to address us with your answers to those questions, okay, so the purpose of the questions is to get you to really focus on what they're doing, what they're saying, what they're trying to accomplish and think about it analytically so it's not a test so it's it's forcing you to kind of just think it through so and we would love to have also the folks in the chat room also pay attention to those questions and analyze them and tell us what you've learned about what kind of questions to ask, yes, exactly so here alfa group prepares for the encounter with better world designed so there's ted marketing, charles purchasing and tabatha design question number one is how do there is interest differ and I'm talking about how does ted's interests and different differ from tabitha's, for instance, how does being new affect tabitha's behavior? Why is better world a finalist? So remember this is the alfa group team and they're talking about better world and what are they most concerned with? What's the big issue and what was most notable about their conversation what was most notable I will put these questions back up after I run the video you guys sorry I'm late I have been waiting long wait fine we got started a little bit we discussed a few things good good this is a big one so yeah this is like huge so what do we know about these people that would justify a million bucks here I know you guys have worked with them before I have not I've just heard what you've told us I mean, they sound like a great company and if you know great mission um but from what I've heard you know from the competitors we looked at they are comparable on dino that they can give us really good results so a million dollars extra I don't know I mean I'd love to hear what you guys have to say you know, that idea could give us good results too don't we? Yeah well, they have a track record with the company you know they've they've they've done some they've done some good work absolutely there is a track record there. Okay, so if I'm gonna have to go sell this deal um upstairs what what? I don't want to have to go in and say um we took their first offer we did didn't negotiate bad for us and I think bad for the relationship uh between us and uh and uh better world so what khun what can we ask of them today that would enhance um what they could give us or what can we ask them to subtract uh that would look better in terms of money because that's where I'm that's where I think we need to come this is about that issue in the negotiation to me I've got problems with design yeah problems with them and their mission and all that kind of stuff but so it's just the money well I mean it's what the money represents were saying we're going to give you a million bucks on uh we're gonna give you three million bucks but we're going to give you a million bucks more than we would have to in this situation and I don't know what we're going to get and I've seen you manage my asks to see what the competitors were charging they're gonna want to know why we spent that way yeah what did we get for the extra money I don't know so would be nice to him when we do meet with them to see if they could match ideas incorporated at least first to see what they say because they want this you know this product's gonna put them on the map and it's a big deal I mean it's a big deal for us and it's a big deal for them so if they could match it that would be the best case scenario which probably might not happen if not then we can see if they can start lowering their costs and see if they can at least meet us in the middle I would think and showing more detailed breakdown because I saw their budget and a couple things on their little if he I don't know why there's so much more I know that they're generally faster but still I just I need a little bit more information about that great great and you like him right? You get it from what I've heard of their great um they have great mission, great morals and everything but I worked with ideas before and they are I mean they gave us what we wanted they gave us what they what we needed and had I just had a really good experience with them so if there are a million you know fifty per cent for them to charge us fifty percent more I don't know if it's worth that difference well, you know I'm a fan I am like a total fan of a better world total fan and the experience that I had with the uh with the l e d project was so fantastic and the result was I mean imagine senate selling a fifty dollar we're selling a fifty dollar light bulb fifty dollars like can you believe that it's crazy but the last fifty years the last fifty years and they got that message across yourselves out of that business they got they got us selling trees they got us they got us to market ahead of schedule they got market acceptance that you know was unbelievable. I mean when I was first given the assignment of of marketing a fifty dollars, life all hate me I'm a marketing guy fifty dollars what what we pay for light bulbs fifty cents I mean you only not quite but but I mean it's ridiculous you know, fifty or light bulb? Well, they came up with a way of dealing with that impossible impossible and so I'm you know I'm a fan and you know, it was a huge lift in my career here, you know? I mean, I've been here a long time and I would have to say that was the most significant project of my career with alfa so I'm a fifty buck like fifty buck like now so on we're making some money on those balls you know, and people are using them and by the way it's it's reducing elect use of electricity all over the world so it's a good thing so that's you know, so I'm a fan so to me to me it's it's like okay and and charles I get it, you have to go to the c suite and you have to explain why we're going through these guys and why the extra million or whatever um and so I guess I guess what our approach should be is to get them to explain it to us uh okay you know they've got it they've got a gun explain it it's their it's their job yeah it's theirs to lose right now we're down to two people we went how many people do we look at how firms all right so we're down to two it's theirs to lose okay, I think that I will fight for them as obviously I just want to be honest about that well are you going to be you're gonna be on our side hope right? Yeah, just checking now I mean, it would be great obviously best case scenario is we work with them because it's good for us if you even look at publicity because there's such a you know, there's such a green company they're looking to better the world so and so is so is our products so great so we could get them to come down closer ideas like that would be ideal? You know, I mean that that's um I'm really glad that you brought that up tabatha that that is a really important aspect of this um we're an old company where part of the industrial age in effect I mean there's great people here we do a lot of great things we're totally in the twenty first century obviously but our roots go back to the eighteen hundreds on dh we are an industrial giant from that past and so there's a legacy public opinion about us has the results of that history what I see as the opportunity with us with this project because it has such a world shaking opportunity is to begin for people to think of us in a different way on if we align and so my belief is if we align everything that we do around doing it in a better way it's their name by the way uh that it will advance cause they're larger cause so that's why I'm not so I'm not so caught up with the money but I definitely get the fact that you're you know you gotta go upstairs and deal with those guys well I think that I think that gives me good information in terms of talking to them about where they see the long term positioning of this company okay? Because this is not just a fifty dollars led light bulb here this is we're talking about every every electronic device on the planet right? So we can use every day and senior management might be a little more skeptical like you are because we have been criticised by you know, the public and financial division because we spent fifty billion dollars on this product on the prototype and it is an amazing product I mean we all agree with that and just I mean we had to get it that's what we had to do to get it but we have had some critics so I feel like this even though this is minor in comparison to that I feel like it's really important just to prove ourselves so we need to make the right decision with this company you're cool all right are we ready tio already ready I just don't I don't want this to be the segway of products I don't want this to be a great idea and a great product and it's going to change the world and everybody is gonna have one well put and now people get it if they're on the boardwalk in los angeles well put never again clothes officers so okay all right all right all right thanks thanks for meeting me so what do you think what's going on it's good question by question okay what's going on there question number one how do their interest defer uh if you wanna get um I was going to say well tabatha doesn't really seem to have her own opinion she's just kind of working off what everybody else is saying and she says like well I've heard this and but she has no riel concrete experience and so it's yeah it's related to her research and she like even flubbed and the like producto I mean prototype and then said product again like right out why why why was she why was she like she's probably nervous I mean she's new and she's working with like you know as ted was saying like all his experience over this old company and all these things and oh I did this product like way back then and she doesn't have any of that so she's new to it she's probably too scared I mean that's that's kind of insecurity yes, it definitely seems like tabatha doesn't have the confidence to like really state what she she truly believes she wants toe you know, be on the right side no matter what but I think the one thing that paletta tabatha has caught up on more than anything is that money issue it's like what she kept on bringing up like oh, we need bring it down we need to bring it down and ted was like, hey, you know what I'm really looking at is you know, the money is you know, we have the money for this when I really want is the best job and like I've worked with these people before and I know that they can kick butt so well brought up uh you brought up over yeah very uh you know, valid point that since you were such a big you know klink lama never company like dating back to eighteen hundreds thought this could change public opinion about you, which is significant, you know, that's something you feel like the rest of it's kind of small compared to what this could do as a large large scale very good why and why was why why was tabatha? Is that the way she wass mallory and I feel like one? It was interesting I loved learning earlier that the the prefrontal cortex gets turned off when you're in that fight or flight and almost was if she was functioning in that fight or flight and I don't know if she's bringing her own personal relationship with finance and opinion and gender I don't know what was going on with her, but she wasn't really focused on the big overarching vision and focused on the money wasn't on the money and it it was kind of almost life second, but like listening, teo oh my goodness we could change the shift of people the way people see it that's like larger and and the money will come um so I don't know it was something that I'm very good really quick great comment from maureen shaughnessy says how do their interests differ? Tabitha seems mostly interested in learning the politics of her company, fitting in not being too opinionated right off the bat just getting a feel for it ted is definitely on the side of better world, he states he's a fan he's confident and quieter because he doesn't have to fill the silence with words it's actually something that I really noticed this tabatha I had that I don't know like word vomit you know it's like I need to get my word and it's like these two old guys yeah two old white guy yeah it's not it's what we're talking about it earlier it was like what she probably should have done was taking a step back let them like stay quiet let them speak build on what they're speaking and then have a reply instead of just like you have a comment um well if if felt like the table was very divided between charles and tabitha and ted it's like those two were all about the money and you were trying to fight for the better good and why was uh why was charles all about the money? Well he's the heavy hitter is meant to be correct maybe not yeah yeah he said he would have to justify it to the people upstairs make anybody else angry and come back down on him. Yeah, a couple guys been there a long time we're talking lifers right? What was most notable about this conversation? It was most notable what was most notable asking folks online? What was the most notable thing about a conversation? What was most notable about this conversation? We're inside a gigantic corporation thes air just regular people but they have their positions in the organization and they're discussing uh a fairly minor amount of money in this scheme of this you know, fifty billion dollars purchase but what was most notable about this about this conversation david says the most notable thing for him was how ted open the door to seeing as something other than just numbers I'm bringing it beyond what everyone else seems to be focusing on which was just the cost two potential beyond that yes max you had a thought for me what the most notable thing wass is you how how much confidence is a key and this is not not letting yourself you know, not having that confidence it's like you need to believe in yourself and speak up maybe you know, work work on you know with us just going going going she's trying yeah, you know she wants to be a player we can't give him give her a break yeah, but but she's you know this is a little bit beyond her yeah tell mark committed from online johnny noted that the hierarchy was a very noticeable thing in the conversation. Yes, we see elle woods most notable to me nothing really happened the ball didn't seem to move forward all that much rightly fourteen very incredible all were driven by their feelings all were driven by their feelings so here we have a corporation this is the typical client for us creatives and guess what these air people all driven by their feelings that's the real deal all driven by their feelings and then jeff may I love this this one may be the last one most notable the lack of vision of what is needed there is no unified vision, no unified vision right s so I thought it was interesting that the value subject him off at the end and it's kind of an after thought that oh they're green company we're a green company we could make this it's kind of obvious or I feel like that would be kind of something to start with on the fact that it just kind of an after thought it wasn't the most notable but it was definitely notable that it wasn't notable are a big part of it we human beings in this the circumstances that we all live in and all grew up in we get caught on the money whenever there's an amount of money being discussed that forms a framework or a box around the conversation and I have seen this my whole life as a creative person dealing with clients and budgets and negotiating money it doesn't matter whether it's you know, ten thousand dollars five thousand dollars or five million dollars the box gets put around it and we immediately focus on the money because money is power money is acclaim money is confirmation of that were valuable you know money tends to be the default thing why didn't you get the assignment you're too much money money is the default so money ends up being the framing of the conversation naturally and people are a little nervous stepping out of that framework so one of the things you always have to do is try toe look for a way to get beyond discussing the money you need to get to the place where you're discussing what's going to occur that's going to be good for everyone because really what we want is to help people that's really what we want and you could tell that this product would really help a lot of people it would help a lot of people yeah max you know going into maybe going into climbing like this should you have that maybe go in just saying the kate what's table the money this discussion now let's just focus on this vision might just push that out away like should that be something that you don't go into a quiet meeting doing yeah yeah yeah let's talk about what we want to accomplish yeah and then talk about money okay yeah absolutely yeah so there's three more segments to this that you'll see in the next two days the next segment is the better world team doing the same thing having a planning meeting about how they're going to approach ted and charles and tabatha and they'll talk about what they're going to do and and what's gonna happen now did all ofyou note that better worlds bid was one million dollars higher than the comp than the competition yeah, good that's important fact to remember their one million dollars high yes, super quick questions of those three teams troopers duty? Well, the team's coming in when you have two teams in around yes, what's the dynamic usually who runs the conversation and starts it and ends it and the person I'm assuming it's jim campesino guys like jim cappuccino are smart enough to run the conversation in that room. If you're not good at that, the client runs it. You could see how jim would run that catcher he's a nice guy he's generally genuinely interested in the clients succeeding you could hear him talk about that he really means that he would run that meeting so it wouldn't come across as the client is trying for the agency is trying to take over or I don't know it, there wouldn't be a controlling well those air underlying those air certainly underlying factor exactly right? Yes, there is a power struggle going on, but a really good creative director like jim, I would find a nice way to show how by controlling the meeting he would be helpful to everyone and that's really the goal as a creative you must control the meeting because if you don't control the meeting, you don't control the opportunity and you don't have the creative maneuvering room to do the assignment the way you need to do it. The client will take over. Clients are full of powerful people, and I think that's a great sentiment to end the day on, because, again, it reflects back on what we've been talking throughout the day, about how you have to have confidence in the value of what you're providing, that you can feel confident taking that control, providing structure to the discussion. Because you're the expert, you have the expertise, and you have the value in what you're bringing right now. Of course, the better world team doesn't know what these guys talked about. Well, they know one thing these guys talked about. Don't they what's? The one thing they would know about the million? Yes.

Class Description

Core negotiation skills are essential for creative professionals, but negotiating can be fraught with fear, anxiety, and uncertainties. Join Ted Leonhardt to uncover the negotiating tactics that allow you to build the power and respect that lead to financial and creative freedom.

Throughout this course, you’ll gain a deeper understanding of the common anxieties and vulnerabilities around negotiation and build the skills you need to keep those fears from holding you back. You’ll explore negotiation not as a bargaining session but as a collaboration in which you guide those you are negotiating with. You’ll also learn how to use time and context to define opportunities, create contracts instead of proposals, and align people with your vision. Because dealing with difficult personalities can be a challenging aspect of negotiation, you’ll build strategies for coping with and disarming bullies and naysayers. You’ll develop a negotiating style that doesn’t neglect the importance of kindness and good manners, but that also allows you to know and assert what your unique offering is worth.

Whether you’re just starting out as a freelancer or you’re a longtime creative professional, this course will equip you to know your worth and confidently ask for the opportunities and compensation you deserve.



While I walked away with some amazing knowledge and skills to apply to negotiation, more than anything, I appreciated the authenticity and humility with which Ted crafted and delivered all of the materials in this class. As a fellow creative, every word spoken in this course resonated with me on a deep level, and led me to retain and integrate the materials far better than I expected. A most sincere thank you to Ted for sharing these pieces of his inner life with us.

Kal Sayid

Love Ted. His desire to help creatives shines through. Lots of great nuggets as well as strategies for both the newbie creative and the veteran.

a Creativelive Student

Another terrific course from CreativeLive. I would and did recommend it for anyone, creative or otherwise. Most negotiation courses leave one with a "bad taste"-not this one. I vastly prefer this approach. My life would be very different right now if I had this information available when I first graduated from college with a BFA in Graphic Design. Oh, and an unmentioned bonus-a design agency soap opera is included. Ted is a marvelous teacher.