You and Your Sales
Let's talk about a breakthrough there's a big big shift in sales I've gotten really good at not looking at how it looks on this monitor and I saw the re watch later realized that fine there's been a big shift in sales and here is the very very, very, very good news for us the shift in sales is that it used to be for the very longest time that sales was somebody shipping their wares going slip in there where? Excuse me, going from door to door and selling encyclopedias right? They had another product and they had to sell it or they call company after company after company they were the one who knew the product they are the one who told somebody about the product and then they then they got the sale if somebody bought their run it that has been sales how we've known that forever right? This new breakthrough it's kind of referred to in the sales community as sales two point oh is in this new world where the middleman is being a race because of the internet the clients are learning what th...
ey need the client's air figuring out the products and they're educating themselves and then they need to go to an expert a consultant to get the finer details worked out so they could make a sale that is a huge shift in sales you don't have to go door to door to sell your encyclopedia when someone can log in to wikipedia in eight seconds that's a major shift and so what that means is the guy the huckster and the pushy spend pusher the one who goes around and says you would buy this you want to buy this one by this he's being phased out and he's being replaced with this new person who's just going to be the one who finishes the deal every most of the work is done and so what we're doing is we're holding on to the old sales mentality and shying away from it when that is not how sales are done today we're hiding from something that no longer relieves thiss isn't that interesting? That's that's I think a wonderful point for me because it means that our buyer is newly howard they're newly empowered to have a lot of education, their fingertips and so by the time they get to us we just have to facilitate what they need to get the products they want which we're going to talk about in great detail but I love how that knocks down so many of these antiquated concepts of what a sales person is ok a bit more education about white education is so significant one of the things we found out another study done at depaul university discovered that people who come out of some sort of sales education program versus the bulk of people who never knew they just jump out there in the sink or swim and figure it out as they go. People have gotten some sort of education and trading and get some idea of systems and some idea of how to relate to clients some understandings of what it means to get in a sale situation and actually turn it from start to finish into an end goal that satisfies everybody there's a thirty percent boost in how how long they get to their break even point so when people start out in sales hundred side commission, they're not making any money yet they've got to get to the point where they can break even till they start making money they get their thirty percent faster if they've got some education under their belt. Even more interesting than me is there's a forty percent uptake in stamina, which means lasting power, which means how long you can survive and stay in sales sales one hundred percent that's all you do you're not the producer or not the seller we by the way of the producers, the sellers, the producers and the sellers. But sales as a stand alone has been a tourist lehigh burnout rate if you're going door to door to door, you get tired forty percent longer, people stay in sales when they have some education in some perspective on what sales means, so from my perspective when I'm talking people, I do a lot of one on one mentoring sessions and workshops in such one of things. And hearing all the time is how do I stand out my market? More specifically, how do I stand out in my saturated market if you get really good at sales? Not very many people are good at sales man power, which is the I think the largest recruiting and workplace. Was it it's, a workforce company ranked sales as the number one most difficult position to fill of all the jobs they have to fill. And I come out of recruiting, I'll tell you a second a little bit about that. A second u come into recruiting to agree specifically, I don't know that monster dot com. Yes, yes, yes, but were you recruiting? Okay, interesting. So I came out of recruiting. I know that if I had to job rex, so basically job descriptions to feel like creative. I've is filling their marketing manager one for a place to work. Truly, if I have two job descriptions to fill and one of them is the head of technology that called the director of technology, and one of them is the director of sales. I am thrilled about how easy it's going to be for me to fill a director of technology position. Not that they're a dime a dozen by any means but I understand it it's more tactical you could sit down and say what you know what have you commanded what kind of language is have you oversee what kind of programming groups with sales it's all this like how what are you going to be at this really you know it's a much harder thing to pin down so if you want to stand out in your market get good at sales is that huge differentiator how many people here have kids wow one hundred say did you notice that I work life balance course the kids people here were here and then non kids people here young kids at least I think if you have children and you have ever said eat your broccoli put on your seat belt get in your car seat please take off that underwear it's been days you are in sales already if you want to borrow the car when you were younger to from your parents you were in sales if you ever walked up to somebody in a bar and said hey you sold if you've heard stood at the bar and try to get someone to walk up to you you have sold you have been selling all your life we just don't call it that you understand what it is is persuasion and it's not manipulative or terrible to say no dude washing clothes you really need tio that's not terrible thing you have the best of intentions you want to raise healthy children that don't run into traffic I mean that's by the way that's my mission statement I mean, you have great intentions when you're interested in someone you're interested because you think they're you know you're attractive there's something about them that draws you in and you want them to also see that you are you're you have an agenda is it evil? Well, hopefully I don't know you guys all that well yet but hopefully it's not the point is you are already thinking what do I want my outcome to be? How do I get there? What kind of things can I do to move this along in a way that meets everybody needs? So uh my background is actually I've come out of sales but not not initially and I have talked before when I did the taking care of business program, I talked about how I got into photography on dso you know, I'll do a quick recap on that, but what I've never shared is what it meant for me to move into one hundred percent commission sales and how awful I was at it I was awful at it, so I came out of school focused on mass communications, art history, american literature and then I went into a mansion consulting where I coded kobol for a year so it's a perfect transition in there have been educated for that it made no sense I started and they taught me how to code and I sat at the martin marietta power plant uranium enrichment plant coding kobol for a year in a suit with pantyhose well, I washed uranium go above me and orange tubes s so that's how I started and then I moved into organizational design and development development which was all about systems and processes and helping clients basically get more efficient at the work they were doing when I left that I walked into a company in downtown san francisco and executive recruiting firm that had been a boutique recruiting firm for twenty five years. And I walked in with the intention of them finding me a new job because I was tired of one hundred percent travel and as I looked out at this like gorgeous view of the bay where in the fifteen four and write down a market and second in san francisco for any san francisco peeps yes andi I was like, I could do this. This is a nice tell me what recruiting this and so they basically explain the position which is that people need on a certain level of people v p directors et cetera to fill these jobs and we go out and find the people to fill the jobs and they pay us a commission on the starting salary of the person who takes the job it's pretty straightforward on and it's a huge business. No, you came out of monster dot com you get my phone like fourteen years or is that right? Before I went before monster dot com actually purchased this company, I was in a recruiting boutique as well a very small organization where we just out companies would outsource their recruiting tow us. Okay, so mine was not one hundred percent commission our position, so until now I don't see I haven't heard one hundred percent, you know, commission, right? So, yes, I was a recruiter again with them, right? Ok, so when I learned about recruiting, they said, ok, you're going to leave this job where I had been paid a salary and I got bonuses. Andi, I had security and you're gonna move into this position where you've never done this before, but you know, if you're good with people, you'll be fine. So I said, ok, so I took the job. I got my awesome office with my mahogany desk and like, my beautiful picture window of the day and I was like, I'm going, I'm gold and I said, so how do I do this? And they're going no problem take these videos, this will teach you how to be a sales person and then you can just get started. After that, you just start calling people here. The jobs here, the descriptions learned the company's learned the jobs. I find the people all right, so took these videos home, and I started watching them. And five minutes into the first video, my heart sank. It was just remember this, like a guy with, like, a suit in a mustache was exceptionally large mustache remember, at one point, getting so caught up in the mustache, I couldn't hear anything he was saying I was, like, must ask myself and but what he was basically saying was he was teaching the principles of selling, which was quota driven, hard sale. You know what? What is it gonna take, etcetera, etcetera. And I watched, like, the whole way through, and I said, I made such a mistake, and I committed to myself and to my husband that I was going to give it three months. Let me give it in ninety days. You know, you can't for me, it's the idea that failure is fine, but you have to try at least try. So I tried, and every day I went in and I did what the videos were telling me I did, I made the calls, I said, the words I I kept thespian sheet notes and I made the next call and I said the words that he kept the spreadsheet notes on and after about a week I was like, maybe three months was a little too much. This is nuts, so I get to the end of the first month doing that every day, and I hadn't not only did not have a sale, I didn't have a lead like it was wretched bill, I get to the end of the second month, and I am very, very aware of how much it cost park in downtown san francisco and how much it costs to go get your lunch and down conferences at all the I was definitely paying a lot of money to work there. I came back, I think it was about one week into the third month, and I basically came back and told steve, I'm like, I can't do this, I'm terrible at this, I, you know, I one hundred state commissions and saying I feel basically more and more like a failure like I suck at this, and every time I call somebody, I start out the call thinking to myself, here's, the beginning of the next failure, time to start my next failure, that's how it felt, so this is like a very standout experience. I came back, we opened a bottle of wine and this it wasn't this bottle of wine. I actually shot this for photo ignite. You can see the photo of night videos total side if you get a chance, look it up. The fascinating truth about lying. I actually loved building this, but we open about online, and even though that picture wasn't taking this, it was really, really close to this kind of feeling, and I was just like, I do not know how to keep doing so much of what is it me me say that again? I do not know how to keep doing so much of what is it me? Do you guys ever feel that way? Like yes, like it's supposed to be doing this? How how am I supposed to know how to do this? The videos didn't teach me because I'm terrible. How are you supposed to know how to be a sales person, especially if you don't have a sales background and you eat it? Like, why is the why is there this magical assumption that you should suddenly have all these tools lined up at your disposal? And you know exactly how to use them? You shouldn't, and I didn't, so I told him that evening I said, you know what, I've got another few weeks left. I'm going to quit all this nonsense I don't have a huge mustache I don't I don't know how to do all the things he said I'm simply going to go in the next day and be myself no what is me I'm going to do the part that is me so I started out the next phone call the next morning and it was the first honest phone call I had made in months it really wass I talked to I talked I made the dumb jokes I softened where I normally would soften instead of saying I understand that but I just said, you know they say something that was in the form of an objection and I'd say oh, I get that I got no follow up I get that and it became a normal phone call where I had no intention to sell and I turned it around one of the things I was supposed to be doing every time I talked to somebody who is a good candidate for the job is for all intents and purposes I was to say what's it going to take to get you into that new job like what do I need to tell you to get you to sign on to this job so I can get my paycheck because I just got you in that job that's that was what my goal was supposed to be instead what I said was you know what? Take everything at equation blue sky picture what is your perfect job? What does it look like? What are you doing? How long does it take you to get to work? How many people are you overseeing? What kind of ours are you keeping? You know, when do you go home? What? What are your goals in a year in five years when you want to see yourself getting into after this job or with with this company or another company just let's start there and that started out a dialogue that became transformative. It was very interesting people got excited and even thought about her in a while and they would start out by saying yeah, you know, I want something where I'm heading sales sure, what exactly you're doing and we drill down and we drill about it by the end of the conversation, I really felt like we were friends. I really felt like I was building great conversations I wasn't at my agenda was simply I need to understand this person and see if they're fit for this job, but also I don't need to close them on this job all we need to do is find out who this person is because we have a contact, and at the end of the conversation I was just a cz likely to say this job is definitely not a fit for you but now that I know all this about you, let me keep this information because if I hear of this job, you're the first person I call and then I hold on to it, and then that was so a week into month three, and it was three actually write all this down my journal, I've been journaling my whole life, and so I have amazing notes from my past life what I found that was sitting at that mahogany desk that was gorgeous, there was a little drawer and tucked inside the store was nothing else but one small piece of paper, and I'd written down my first day on the job what I wanted to make it the end of the year, which was about triple what I've been making it my previous job, which was a total stretch and became more more of a joke every day when I opened up that door, so I had that little piece of paper and it put on it, you know, three months the dollar figure and what happened was two of the day three months, and I closed my first deal, which, by the way, means nothing because when you're recruiting, that person has to stay in the role for a certain amount of time for you to really get the dollars. Because if you hire them and it's not a fit and they quit two months later, you make no money. They have to stay three months to a year, depending on the job or a month to a year, some some of the guarantee periods. So I sat there and three months into the day I made the booking and I looked out of the piece paper and I said yes, and then three months later, I knew I'd actually secured that at the end of the year, booking after booking after booking after booking, I made three and a half times that dollar amount that I thought was shocking. By the time I actually left that company, I was making that four times over here that sounds innocuous. I feel like it might be really like fit in writing into your ideas of what a terrible sales person is, to quote the dollars, but I'll just say it was crazy money, it wasn't expecting it, I didn't I was shocked at it, and it all came about because of the fact that I was just quit trying to be somebody else, so that was my rocky transition into sales and what I did with it, what I've been doing for the two first two months in a week, I have been uncomfortable, unconvincing and extraordinarily unsuccessful. This, by the way, is the perfect trifecta for being a crack sales person if you want to find it, I've got your equation right here do you ever feel that way uncomfortable, unconvincing, uncomfortable? What about unconvincing? You ever feel like you're trying to sell something and you feel like you're falling flat is you're saying it? Yeah and of the cameras on that they're all nodding, so if what you're doing fis who you are, you are in the best position to thrive obviously the inverse is also true. I showed that by my spectacular failure if what you're doing fitz who you are, you are positioned to thrive when I started switching it to talking how I normally talking, being how I normally am that's when everything turned around here is about the number one question at the top of every list that is going to do define how well you do or do not do in sales does the act of selling your work boost or deflate you know what I mean by that is when you think about selling your work when you're in the act of selling your work do you feel empowered and excited and behind it and passionate about what you did or do you feel like crap? I have to do this again and this is the worst part of my job and I hate it when I have to do this when you go in to sit down for the first time, where is your mind set? Literally we were grabbing microphones, go around, does the act of selling your work boost or deflate you? I think at the beginning, it's inflated me because I was so uncomfortable and I felt when you say you're getting you mean, at the beginning, when I first started, you know, when I first started doing in person sales, but now I feel I feel better. I feel more confident about what I'm producing and what I'm sharing, and so if I get excited it's so it's boosting you were is on the way to the studio, it isthe it isthe definitely good, but at the beginning, when I first started it, it felt very awkward and uncomfortable and all of those bad negative sales person things were going through my head, and I didn't want to be pushy. I never wanted to feel pushy, so I would hesitate to offer suggestion sometimes or, you know, help clients make decisions. I didn't quite know how to do that. So in your words, how did you go from being deflated to feeling like it was boosting? I think with practice, I think just the more times that I had the in person sales and sitting with clients and I also started doing in person consultations ahead of time, so I really learned I got a feel for what they were looking for and so when we came back to the sharing their images, I could say I'll remember when we at the consulate I remember you were he's arrested in this so it brought it back so I was I better understood what they were looking for, so with practice with experience why, like I've done this, I've done this I've done this you build confidence absolutely perfectly boost you or deflate you the act of selling your work my answer is very similar to lori's I did it used to deflate me but one thing I decided to do was tio ask my best clients what they liked about the services I provided and I was really surprised come back and to see that they love the in person consultation I almost felt like I was bothering them putting an hour of their time it was taking my time, so but when they I got the answers back and I said, oh, I loved how you came to our house we had so much fun and my husband you and I you know, had the glass of wine together and we talked about what I actually should put up on my walls I started to have the confidence that I needed to actually know that I should be there and then I should sell, so that gave me a boost. So you gained your confidence do your direct client feedback because you made a point of asking them yes, okay, wonderful, I have to say that deflating part isn't the time limit that I'm that I'm struggling so much with at the time limit I'm giving my clients to make their decision, okay, that we'll talk about that I feel to completely deflated by that, yeah, very well a tw first relative to photography, I was shooting weddings and families and things that I I I knew I wanted to be a photographer, but I didn't I wasn't shooting the right things, so at first it was kind of deflating because I didn't feel like I was being genuine and if I didn't love but I was doing, I felt like I was doing them a disservice. You are right because it was exactly I mean love shooting, but it just it wasn't the genre of photography that I wanted to shoot. So for me there was a shift when I started doing head shots and I worked with a lot of my number. Traffic is I work with a lot of women, and one of the things that I specialize in is I spent a lot of time educating my clients and they love how they feel during the shoot. So the minute that started happening, I started seeing that what I'm doing gives another person a positive experience right then I started saying, this is great, you know, I like what I'm doing. Other people are feeling great about what I'm providing them, so now I'm kind of at the point of all right now, how do I really turned this and do capital, you know? So when you're doing the work, you feel this boost a huge boost when you're selling the work, you feel deflated because I don't know how deflated because simply because the lack of education, lack of experience absolutely yes, which is completely normal. Thanks. Congratulations. So I got a boost from sharing my work with my clients. Sharing is showing them the images and on dh seeing their reactions, and that gives me the boost feeling like I've done something great for them. They're happy their hearts are melting, looking at the pictures of their kids. But then when they asked me, and I just really just want the disk, I don't know, I don't know what prince I want that's what I get deflated because I don't know how to help them navigate through the decision process so that deflates may I don't know what to do so the sharing part, the act of sharing the work you produce, major business, the active let me actually walk through the process of how you can acquire these. Exactly. Ok, exactly. This is a great question really got me thinking about just because I realized as I thought about it, sometimes I am deflated, sometimes I'm totally boosted, and the difference, I think, is the lead up to the sales, like if I have an idea of kind of what they're looking for, if we've touched on that during the pre consultation, or like I, I have a clue that they were interested in something for the wall or they're leaning more towards an album, then then I'm boosted by I I love going to the sale sessions and like, all right, we're ready, you know, we're going toe mocked up this wall, galleries jodi idea, and and it goes really well, and I leave it is great, and we love it. It's the ones where sometimes where maybe I didn't take that time or before I was getting this much information prior to the session where we get to the session we go through the images they love them but it's like, oh god, now what do we do with them? You know so specific right? Right? And then trying to continue to believe them through the decisions of oh and album oh well and not knowing their budget for do I push this one there are for this one or offer this I don't know what you were exactly exactly and that's when I'm like oh, so yeah, well, that's helpful I think I feel when I'm going into the sales I feel very definitely did just because I don't do in person sales, I've only done email exchange and it has always been a long drawn out process and just look at it that first email putting up the gallery going and this will take three weeks like it just takes a deflating it I'm just so I'm going to see money never but I do get a boost when they see their images and they do of them like maggie was saying and I really get happy when their oh I found these two when I really really like him and they're raving about that and then they only order five to seven and in my head I'm thinking this is like a twenty thirty like air going toe it's going to go over the fireplace and then all of a sudden it's like, ok, so take three five by sevens like, what do you know? That thing is carry along with several? We're going to have a section tomorrow where we go through everybody specific sales process, most everybody specific sales process, and you showed the transcript of a normal exchange with a client I believe was their awesome client. It was, but that was so helpful for me to see, and I think it would be incredibly helpful, tio two share when we step through it, because from my perspective not being you not having your heart, not having your investment in it objectively third party examination of the process, I can see exactly why what happened happened on I'm going to be really excited to step through that with you, but I also know why you might be feeling that way. I totally get it because again, who's going through sales training, why would you know any different that's exactly? But I think it's perfect that you said you start out by feeling deflated and you feel very akin to what I was saying I started out by thinking here goes the failure all the time yeah, all the time, yeah, so good that's wonderful! The number one indicator in sales when you study the genre of sales of how well you're going to do is the answer to this question do you feel like you have a mad rush, a passion for the your product or service? Do you believe in it? Are you excited about it? Do you feel this massive level of enthusiasm at it? Or do you kind of feel like you got to do it because it's part of the job and let me just get through it or let me figure it out as they go along or let me stumble through this path because it's dark and murky and I'm kind of scared it's also cold, I want to go home that I mean, that is a big, big part of determining whether or not you're going to fail or succeed. I hate using those words, but in this exact concept yes, selling the act of selling is so neutral, it's it's a process you're doing it or you're not doing it. You're doing this way, you're you're doing it that way. You're offering this information or you're not it's how you feel about asking someone to buy something that you made, and by the way we're going to talk about this in the second when you're asking someone to buy what you made, you have the added major advantage of selling them something that you guys made together that should not be for gotten you partnered with them to create something that you're now positioning them to buy. That is a wonderful difference about photography versus most all products and service sales, so if you feel bad or ashamed or like you're doing something wrong and you're guilty or you, you feel like you're making people give you money that will come across all the time, that is why this part of what we're doing and we're going to keep digging through this morning. This whole part is to start at the biggest problem people have, we are going to talk about sales, we are going to talk about process, we're going to dissect exchanges were going to do a shoot, we're going to sit down with a client, sell it, we're going to say step after step after step, we're going to a very detailed do this don't do that let's talk about pricing let's talk about dealing with criticism and self doubt and confidence we're going to do all that, but we have to start here because this is the number one thing that determines whether you're going to succeed or fail when it comes to sales, selling the act of selling is completely neutral, it's the feeling you bring to it that makes it good or bad? Does everybody believe that if you don't believe that you just get up and what no no don't please please don't say ok who is the most complex person in sales the most complex person involved with every sandwich transaction you're going to dio is always going to be you and I mean that like we are within ourselves different people at all times that is such a fundamental belief for me about everybody I'm eaten all the all the times I photograph when I come in and meet with the subject for the first time if you've ever seen me dio a shooting workshop and stuff I address every single person like there's a lot of people in there because there are that's why this photo work so well way are easy going and very cool about a lot of stuff and then incredibly sensitive about little things right? We are terribly confident and also horribly insecure we are big adult in this grown world getting along and we're a tiny little child inside scared to death that is that is who we are and I look at anything that goes on with business or life if you can hack into your own brain, you are so set up to succeed because that is the most complex person you're going tio interact with it with the sales engagement for the rest of your career all right, we're doing this because every problem avoided is a problem double if you know that you're looking at your business and the clear issue is that you're not selling your work well or comfortably for enough money that problem is going to double and then triple it's not going to conoco away because you're ignoring it it's actually going to worsen because it's going to come up don't become a habit you know if it's something that you see that you're doing wrong every time and you're not doing proactive measures to fix it attrition mentioned talking to a client saying tell me about your experience working with me what does it feel like for you when you sit down you were very proactive about how do I look at this problem and solve it versus how do I make it worse and worse and worse by just continually doing it that's that was wonderful ok, so after much deep and profound brain things in my head madagascar there's no king julien for madagascar come on don't you love him who can do his accent? Oh no I am king julien does that mean that close? Ok, so you guys clearly haven't seen madagascar fourteen times each version now justin a that's embarrassing if you have any questions in the studio audience to start off with any any q and a from what we just did is that I mean that it goes that way so if we feel deflated are you to be able to help us feel boosted that is exactly my goal one hundred percent so there's her intention my agenda my smarmy agenda is that you were going to come out of these three days and you're going to be like I am actually slightly amazed that I was so trapped by inferior thinking it's not just a mindset shift it's going to be exactly what do you do it step for this process let's get you to the point when they say this what ideo lets us that steals the tactical things that's always a part of this but you know like anything I believe the best education in the best way to transform yourself is to have an overview of the theory the understanding be able to dress the most complex person in the room which is always you and that's the person who is between you and every interaction you have is you let's start there and then let's talk about all right day to day practical ideas of what we're going to run through and fix yes we're going to do that yes is my answer said with confidence and a boosted response um I just want to remark on what hit me really hard was the partnering together of this particular product so they have had all this invested time that they've spent in creating this with you so it should be pretty easier it's easier sell oh yeah oh, yeah, it's. Not a product, it's. Not a product that you just created. And now you want that you have to convince them to buy it. They invested all their their hope, their expectation, their time with you. Yeah, I have. Ah, section do you know if we have my book condition? Family is that he isn't in the room right now. Do you know if it's in the crate of live studio we could know nothing is a giveaway. I believe we should. If this should, I would love teo. You know, when we get back from break, read a passage from it because I sat down and wrote a passage of this in my book about everything that I would love for you to keep in mind before a sheet starts and what it is is the exact experience that's happening for your family as they're prepared to shoot if it's a family session, if it's an individual, if it's a wedding couple, et cetera. I wrote this from the books about family photography. So I wrote it about a family. But when you start to look at it from that perspective completely before you even get to the shoot what's gone into this, you realize that they are quite brought in. That is one of the number one things that takes off the table the idea of I don't want to push this on them they have come to you and you have done this together that's actually ironically kind of a self absorbed view I don't push it on them but they're already putting a lot into this is a lot of effort you are partnering on this absolutely okay question from the internet uh mattson photographers ask, is it worth it to hire someone strictly for sales? That's a great question my studio manager does a lot of my sales now, andi it wasn't like that before for the longest time I did each and every sale one hundred percent really enjoyed it again we're going to talk about that I actually really enjoy sales because to me it's the culmination of all this relationship we built it's a big part of it and I really enjoy it. However, when I'm out here creative I've for three days and there's a week on dh there is some client work in progress I love that I know that she can take it on dh so there's a lot of upside to that we actually she's on a commission scheduled for sales and I have talked to people in the past to say you know what? No matter what happens, I think I'm always gonna be miserable it sails even if I learned the whole thing started finish, I've looked at my business, I think I could make more money by hiring someone to do it. Brilliant. Amen. I think that's a wonderful way to go, especially when you're ready identified that that's not something you're ever going to enjoy, and I think again, if you do a commission model for sales, you haven't set up with a certain percentage, you can set it up like five percent, ten percent whatever the amount is that you have someone who comes in and say all they do is they spend an hour prepping for this sale, hopefully there in somewhere on the pre consul to some degree you sense in time, going over the images with them telling them what you really love and what you think stands out, they build some sort of again, we're gonna do this on sunday, but they build some sort of presentation for the client that involves really good ideas of what these images could be put together and delivered as when all of that is said and done say they put three to four hours in three to four hours and they and used a sale that's two thousand dollars and you get a ten percent commission they made two hundred dollars for four hours, work that's a really sellable job to get filled right would you take a job for fifty dollars an hour if say for instance, you weren't doing any other things and you thought I really fun to work a few hours a week or something those the optimal people to hire for that good personality excited come in for things yeah, we have a question from image of this in texas is it normal to feel different about each sale depending on the attitude and the willingness of the client to buy? Oh yeah, because you're responding to the individual in front of you it's very much a shared energy, right? Right, so if someone comes in and they're just grumpy and frustrated annoyed and they're bringing in all the baggage of other experiences that have been negative for them, you have more work on your place you d'oh? I mean, but it's the same thing with shooting you're dealing with the exact same appearance experience. Sometimes you go into a shoot and someone's really fun to photograph there up there into it they've come up with ideas everyone's on board. Other times they're like let's just get this done like oh, that I had an experience really recently about two and a half weeks ago where it was a couple whose wedding I'd photograph had done their engagement shooting and their wedding and I was photographing them with their one year old son and they were having extremely tough time scheduling the shoot because he was up to do his boards after residency, and they're about to move on. Dh I mean, just the best of intentions, but scheduled it's crazy, like trying to get something down where he could get a few hours and also being a relaxed state because he was waiting to take his boards. And so the day we chose was, like the last state possible before they were going to have to really get going move, and I'm a big advocate when someone sick or it's not going well, reschedule sometimes you don't have that luxury, like in this case, and so she called me mid day, and it was like, no, you do know in point million degrees outside is so hot and she said, look, just, you know, we just got a huge fight shoot her husband and she's, a very candid, fun person that way where she's like, I'm not gonna hide it, I'm so mad at him, he's such a jerk and and she goes, oh, and my son hasn't slept all day so he's in even crankier move! Impossible! I just want to give you a heads up the back and it was literally like it was like over the top. Phone call where I just said was there any way to reschedule shows nothing I looked nothing I said all right, plan b pick up some alcohol on your way to the shu kind of um and then we get there and I realize I realize going in and that was great that she called me so I could prepare myself to understand that I have got to deal with this and it's the same thing for sales if you know you're gonna be going into a situation, you just have to put more upfront work into controlling the situation. We're going talk about the word control later because I think that's a really big deal all right should take one more question before we go to break. Okay? Karen hacker asked, I feel I am a good I'm good as a photographer, but I'm getting the four hundred dollars, client in my door instead of the two thousand dollars client in the door. Is there a different way of selling to a four thousand dollars client versus a four hundred or client? Yes, it has everything to do with lead generation like how you're bringing them in and how you're preparing them from the very first point of contact we're going talk for that detail we get the process I think you know in some respects four hundred dollars clients khun b two thousand dollars clients they really can be. And other times he never are gonna be. We're gonna talk about identifying that.