Mentorship and Advising (with guest Bay McLaughlin)


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Lesson Info

Mentorship and Advising (with guest Bay McLaughlin)

We've got been waffling here joining us on it he is an awesome friend and mentor of mine from san francisco we've known each other for about a year and a half or so on dh I've learned a lot from him and continue to learn a lot from him um and have really seen him in blossom as his transition from his last curd apple into what he's doing now which I'll let him talk a little bit about bae's been working and start ups and technology and in the ecosystem that supports entrepreneurship for over the past six years on he's worked at multiple work inside multiple start ups at various stages on most recently transition from apple where he created a partnership channel with dozens of species and incubators and accelerators that represented hundreds of start ups in silicon valley based based your passion and where I see him come alive in that inspired is what he's here to talk to you all about today is connecting people helping people become the best feel that they can be on dh he's here to tell ...

us about how you can become a better person and achieve more by using and developing mentorships and adviser ships so I will let they take it away thanks still thank you guys so much for having me today it's on absolute honor and completely humbled to be here with both the studio audience and everyone that's here at home online watching especially to talk about a topic that is so near and dear to my heart, I know that I'm an absolute direct result of tons of hours mentoring tons of advisers that have invested time and me and I am so excited to help you guys figure out how finding and using mentors might be useful for you. So the first question that I usually like to get off the plane and ask quickly or tell you guys quickly is why did I make this class anyways? I mean, this is something that's very personal and see what you can do on your own, but I really realized in my last job in apple that I was kind of continually hitting this wall and I and I realize that and you just solve it because when your mentor coach a teacher and adviser to people all either one of two things you're doing, you're either really developing them and affecting their lives or their career both are incredibly important and you need to take that really seriously. So after I had been an apple of the last couple of years, I started getting into that problem where after having a dozen and then two dozen employees, you can't really spend the amount of time that you used to with every individual and given the amount of time they actually need tio kind of developed the way that they want tio so unwilling tio make the mistake or ever even get close to the kind of the the edge and not spend the right time or do the right thing for people which I wasn't going to dio I decided to create a framework that would help instead so today I'm gonna walk you through some of that framework and help you guys figure out where you are in your lives and then see what you can do with you probably already have a lot of great resource is yard you need but how do you actually formalize that process and get the most out of it so in teaching this course and helping lots of people throughout my life I've realized there's generally three scenarios that you can find yourself in so the first of which I'm sure a couple of you are here today and that same scenario when a lot of people at home are in the same position are you probably already have a couple of mentors or have had a mentor in your life or a couple of advisers and if that's the case you are so unbelievably lucky should be very thankful that you've had that but for me you know in my past I had a very interesting background with this I think a lot of people might look back and say they might have had their first meant for maybe in college or maybe their first sort of boss that they had in their career where is in my prep school? Dale and I have talked a lot about how odd this is in retrospect that I was actually given an adviser which is more of a mentor actually when I was fifteen and I have schools have assigned us this person and I feel so fortunate that they did that because it allowed me to realize early on in my life that this role of a person that's really not your parents it was a little bit more experience or much more experience than your friends are that person can play a really profound part of your life and our part in your life and I could actually start very very early so in my life I've had probably four five just mentors that we're the kind of life changing mentors I had one that started with me mr duffy and the middle school time frame and then had another one later on miss u s was like my second mom and then moving forward I had professor felten in my master's program and then my kind of we'll talk a little bit about this you'll probably have one meant toward that's a little bit more long lasting than some of the others maybe not so focused on a specific time or event in your life and for me I've been so fortunate that my best friend elliott hauser is also my best mentor so that's an amazing kind of experience of able to develop a relationship with him throughout my life. So advisors so having had this advisers is great, but our sorry mentors is great, but advisers are really important when you're trying to inform something you're trying to achieve so a goal or it was something very specific, not not so general, in terms of I'm searching for may be what's important to me as a person or what all do of next five or ten years of my life, but more specific. And my first adviser for me came in of seventeen again somewhat early, but I was able tio, create a hydroponics laboratory over grant that we had in our prep school, and it was one of those moments are like, I don't even know what I'm doing. I need information first, and I end up realizing be a biology and being a real big passion of mine, but moving forward, I've probably had at this point more heavy on the career side, but at least a couple dozen I mean that's, you know, that sounds like a lot, but I mean, some advisers will last years, and I've had advisers that just last a couple of weeks. They're generally available forever. They're not someone who just goes away, but so scenario one I actually love to just kind of not going talk a lot right now. It's always get your feed back in the next section. But how? Raising hands quickly. Have any of you had a mentor advisor in your past and we're done? No, no, no. It's that's great. So everyone here has had some experience with that is awesome. I can't wait to hear about that. I'll be calling on you guys momentarily. So a lot of you are in scenario a that's. Great. So you kind of scenario b r I hope that no one ever has to go through this, although it it is probably fairly likely that you will at some point your life. That will be a time where you feel a little bit more lost and you might feel even a little lonely. And some people might not know that they have mentors. I mean, we might talk through the definition today as some people might have the life over go off where they realize that they might have that person already. But it could feel like you don't have these people in your life. And I know that I've experienced that in a lot of people that I've end of reaching out to teaching through the academic classes that I've really found. A lot of people say, I just don't think I have this people in my life and for me, even though I had those people starting his earliest fifteen, things happen, and unfortunately, you, unfortunately enough for me, no seventeen had a pretty terrible string of events, I have a grandfather, my father passed away, back to back, and that was obviously unexpected, but what was really hard for me to look back on was actually looking at the people that were supporting me. So these mentors, these advisers, my family and friends, and to see that they're not programmed to deal with that either, so it was really hard, but they wanted to help, and you have all these people that had the best of intentions, they cared a lot about you, but no one writes a script for that one, and it's it's, when there's moments I look back on, and although I had the support, I have these people that we're willing to be there, they did know how to help, and I didn't have to use them, so I felt in that kind of second scenario, b a had years where I felt sort of just where I am I just scrapping for what I could and in the last scenario that I find are those of you that are mentors and that you are advisers already view might or an adviser to anyone awesome that's great and you honestly god it is you said it already in the introduction but I found over the last few years that this is actually the most fulfilling part of my life it's the deepest passion I have if is to help people figure out what they want to be doing and then help them do those things helping them achieve success you know, whatever that is for them I had no idea it was something until I realized all my free time was spent giving it away to other people than I realized what am I doing with my career? Because I like to do this more so for those you that our mentor adviser thank you think I know the people that you help out or so thankful for your time and your energy but were you although I've I've been able to mentor roughly a dozen individuals at this point and I've advised a couple dozen companies I've um I really think that we'll develop another class will talk specifically about structures and frameworks you can use to make sure you're having that sort of profound impact that you want in people but I must spend most of today really talking about scenario and be so the people that have mentors and advisors have the best use them, and then the people that might not think they have those people and helping them identify who those people are and then howto move forward and use those people in their lives sound good. Awesome. So let's, go ahead, start. I'm gonna just frame a little bit of how I'm gonna run this class, so I'm going tio actually have you guys do all the work, which is great for may? So I'm going to be asking you guys quite a few questions and they're going really fast sort of situations, they're not going to take a lot of time for you to work through it, but what I'm gonna do is I'm going to go ahead and be doing it with you. I actually took the time to do it and again last night just to make sure I hadn't missed anything and I will then quickly caught to the studio audience. I'll have you guys chime in, probably get two or three of you to answer quickly and then I'll agree going to the internet right afterwards. So whenever I see you start talking to the studio audience, I'll prep. The internet and let you guys know toe go ahead quickly you'll get ready or start typing in your answers wouldn't go to the internet every time after we talked to the studio audience and the goal is at the end of the day or the class they were going to have a whole new working definition that we all have informed together, so we'll going to come out with a better definition, better tools if you already have them and a much more informed sort of scenarios, you can move forward today from everyone the internet to the studio audience and decide what you want to work on and get to it cool, great! So we're going to start with advising could be the about fifteen or twenty minutes jump into our sorry mentoring, then advising and they were going to really do the most important workers. Now what? What do we do afterwards? So for those of you at home, you should have a worksheet that I have actually sent out ahead of time, and if you want to check out, you know, you could just use this as a frame of reference. So we're going to take the first two minutes and I want you guys to quickly it's going to be a little pie harder than you think it is it's not necessarily rocket science, but having to really define what mentor ship is will take about two minutes to do this together, so if you guys want to go ahead and start working and I'll ask you guys for your responses, so again bay just for everybody online, maybe we could read those off again with the questions, absolutely so we're just going to one question at a time? I always I always feel like I shouldn't tell people the questions ahead of time, but we're just going to start with what is meant to worship. So it's ah it's really the definition of mentorship? We're going to get in descriptions in the next question, so I'm gonna take down some notes here and see if we can't get through kind of beginning of workings here, of what we think a mentor is, who wants a volunteer, you want to start way we're talking about defining mentorship, you know, I kind of think of it as a relationship where the mentor is somebody who's vested in the mentees success great, and I also put that that the mentor challenges the mentee toe reach further, so I really love both of those. So the invested is really important. I always tell people that it's sze kind of a joke, but it's true that you shouldn't find scheduling problems with your mentor. Because you really should have someone that's invested in giving you that time and energy it shouldn't feel like the strain of getting their time and then the next one when you talked about there you know the ability or the desire to challenge them I love that one of my best professors on mentors presser felt in my master's program he was I say this as a way to describe it but really took me off center all the time put me this position of I'm going to push you make you uncomfortable almost every single time we talk but the point was to get really in there and get past some of the ingrained behaviors and thought process is that you accumulated my entire life but knowing that I was in this safe zone he wasn't going to go maybe tell my responses to someone else or or kind of get frustrated with me if I didn't have the right ones or didn't take all the strides I know he wanted me to um did you have any scriptures say mentorship is less structured than an adviser ship so that they can assist you and maybe combining your uh goals and your skills into something for a while instead of focusing on just one thing they can I guess look at the bigger picture and find out what you're good at and give you honest feedback I love that you talked about the structure so it's absolutely more free form that it would be within advising relationship I also wrote down that it's it's usually something that's kind of universal the person generally finds a way to add value in almost any scenario and I was talking to my mentors mr duffy s weekend wait a great hour and a half conversation and he kind of laughed that he sometimes you're mentees will come back to you and ask you for something and you're sitting there going I mean how in the world can I shed any sort of lighter experience on this they were talking to some of that ceo in a completely different world I'm in silicon valley and you have been working in the start ups and vc space and for apple and he's was my algebra teacher you know it's like what do you do in that scenario and it's you know it doesn't matter the experiences or more timeless and universal absolutely so that you're completely spot on yeah I think mentors helped get connected with resources and we'll kind of share their network with you I love that so I think that we're going to see this a little bit later I feel like you know let's say connected or you know let's just use resource is as a potential word for that too I feel like this I use a lot to describe advisers because it's more tactical and but I think what this really kind of underlies what you're kind of implication there is that they're willing to do what they need to to help you so it's a willingness to give you the time the resource the energy whatever it might be so that you can actually progress it might be making connections you know no offense to mr duffy is unlikely his connections are gonna help me in silicon valley but it's possible on dh but I still go to him for things consulate so I love that sort of underlying feeling of like they're going to help you they're going to give you the energy and time and resource is that they can do anything from the internet audience uh going online kelly j says a mentorship is someone further down a given path reaching back and helping along the next guy mentorships air someone that is where you want to be and have agreed to help you learn young shea says mental mentorship is helping someone to realize their dreams by steering them in the right direction mostly done by someone who has more experience I love that like this right here this is ah guest to nine eight eight five mentorship is when someone who has walked the path before holds the hand and lead someone else I was on that path and he's a great and eternal student loved that chat name mentorship helps you align your deepest soul calling with action steps and I love, thank you. Okay, I was just I was I was going to say that one more experience came up because the whole concept for me is support it's really? I feel like everyone in this world feels at some point that they just have to strike out on their own and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, all that kind of stuff. And at the end of the day, I feel like people that give you support allow you to actually accomplish more do more, try more, which the end of the day, the more profound impact on the world. So I love that, and I think when we talk about experience is really interesting, because advisers, when you work with advisers, we won't talk about the kind of very topical industry, you know, median specific sort of experience, but when it comes with mentors, I've found people that just have broad experience or different different experience than my own actually help inform this quite a bit for me, so it could be that they've walked an entirely different path. But it's, that willingness to share the insights and also someone from the internet said that they are you know, not only more experience but they're going to help provide you know, insight and help tio align people with their passions and I think I was just having a conversation this morning about this that that's a great sort of tagline of help people a lot of their passions but unless your mentor helps expose you to possibilities it's really hard to be passion about something you don't know how to do or don't even know exists did you have something else you have some really often one coming sure sure go for it I want to tell you that to the internet feel frito you interrupt me at any time that's totally fine all right cool. So this one is benji benji photo says a mentor is a compass nice they can point the way but they won't drag you down well said it's like a car great anything's on carbs people say thank you from the tea dad also known as toronto or hey eighty toronto says this is an interesting one our guidance built on affinity trust and a degree of friendship which is which is interesting point to think about friendship as relates to mentorship I love that I heard of my professor felten in my master's program he the compass concept er kind of a symbol has come up quite a bit and I love that because I always tell people you know you're going to be trying to get your true north at all times, but you're probably going to be going like this all the time is staying positive, you look at the other side that river like I need to get through those that river you're looking a single point, you jump in, you like all man here, you thing over here and you're over here and then all of a sudden you get to the other side. It wasn't nearly where you were looking when you started, but you're still on the other side and I feel like mentors help you come back to your true north and kind of re align that I tell people that when you're swinging like this, the goal is to start putting people in place to support you, and then you start swinging a little bit less and then you just kind of figure it out and the mentors I think of the best sort of more so than advisers help you start whittling that down little by little and keep you on task based on what you're actually good at and actually who you are as a person, which is a completely different kind of depth there level to the conversation yeah, go ahead mentors are critically honest because you mentioned passion and oftentimes it's recommended go after what you're passionate about, but I've encountered interests you say you have to develop the skills first until you can reach a point where you're really passionate about it so absolutely what I'd like tio go ahead transition to just so we can actually start this process is we just take a minute the next question read out for the intern as well are who are mentors? So can we take him in for answer that completely to write down five words descriptive words of how would you describe a mentor usually more challenging than I anticipated whenever this question now and they were going to come together and write down the answers so once again five words, five words describing mentors it could be just characteristics so some of this is the point of this was to describe the structure around mentor ship but now we describe the person so who is a mentor? Some characteristics we're calling you to just wait you have all the answers I got a feeling we're gonna have a lot of these chatter is already blowing out three hundred people in the chat room I also love it so let's start in audience you guys have just one word the one one words thinks the best you're gonna come up with more as we talk humble perfect I love that keep shouting about active, active yet compassionate honest we have our thanks skilled, skilled in addition to compassionate too for compassionate um I'm skilled for advisers um and t moving what else we have also the possible longer elias has a knowledgeable, knowledgeable critical and can you describe that a little more yeah uh I guess uh didn't feel feel nice saying that right? All right critical it doesn't sound good bye note you're saying you can't mention it when I asked of course from critically honest perfect but so is it more like they're questioning their able tio maybe trying to get healthy phrase this what would you guys say any any thoughts it was really really thick like maybe it could just be honest I mean you know, I kind of hate the concept being realistic that's not my thing but I know what you're saying is you're helping helping frame the question in a way that like presents in like honestly and not you know, the pie in the sky not set in reality you know? Well of course you want to be astronauts what are we doing to get their kind of thing analytical analytical okay, you want somebody that will ask questions you don't really want to think about so that goes back exactly to the honest and I say that all the time with someone takes you off center oh man it's so uncomfortable when it happens but you get you have to be so fortunate to have a little do that for you here's more from online will yet we've got objective, objective that's a great one. Oh, yeah. This goes back to what you said earlier from normandy available. Yeah, kind of got to be available in tow around unless you start adding him and then here because michael run run out of space here, keep going. The work came in from techo empathetic, empathetic, empathetic, absolute. That was my first one challenging coming from several people, including yeah, absolutely. A couple of the road up last night were also supportive which comes in here, so that could be just supported in any part of your life. I said, you know, humble, self effacing available, and it handed that's enough that that might even be that one which kind of more candid that's probably the best way to say that ask dramatic says wise, wise, that perfect. So that comes with that experience that they've had not even necessarily specific experience, but just life experience is this in the audience at least is our some of these, like I was is shaping up a little bit. Ok, so the next thing that we need to dio together, which is my most fun part to ask you guys and definitely get some responses from the internet audience, is now that we know how we define mentor ship and we have some ideas of the characteristics of these types of people. I really want someone in here, at least a couple of you to share experiences that you've had, so I'm gonna ask, what experiences have you had with mentor ship? I'll share my own as well, but take a least a full minute and a half or so to think about this, we're going to have a couple of you in detail describe it. Same thing with the internet for the folks at home, what, since they just have a little bit of space there, too, right? It? Sure what, specifically about what experiences like it? Have you had one exactly that it could be, you know, a great experience you've had with a mentor? Maybe it could be as much of when you met them. How you met them, how you use them, it could be at your back. We've all had bad experiences with people, so it could be the things you've learned, and you know what? You might not do again, but whatever when part part of me doesn't like to be very prescriptive, I like to help people really figure out what it is for them and then help inform it together as a group, so just write down, you know what experiences you have with mentors of mentorship? Is anyone in the in the audience that feels really passionate about sharing or at least, uh, comfortable enough to share with the group also above there? Yeah, when I was talking before, I was on a nationwide tour and I was five teammates on we all the assigned mentors from our boss and none of us knew these people and just like I thought it was so strange, but my mentor honey, with sam and she lived in new york, we started in l a, um, and I didn't really know what to expect of her because I never had a mentor before and there's just one time where I was going really hard time on the road didn't feel like I could talk to my teammates, you don't want to talk to anyone at work, and no one would understand that my home life either. So I was called sam up and kind of vented chair, and it was so nice to have that objective it's like I've never met her before, so I could kind of like, tell her all the thing I was thinking and she did could she didn't have anything judge or base it off, and she just gave me really solid advice that because she came completely third party and it just like cleared up everything and I was able to go like back into my situation and really like fix the things that were going wrong on the road and then when I met her I got to meet here in new york and it was like we was connected and that was so great cause we shared this experience and because she was there to help me hold where you and you better I was nineteen thousand how long were you her mentee before you actually met her ok wave talked about this a little bit it's it's a very odd scenario like again I was fifteen or so when I when I received my first mentor and I'm so thankful that happened but I completely you know a line or understand how weird that can be when you're given a mentor was reading an article last night about this actually and I think it's when there's things that you have to be open minded to if there's also not a fit there's not a fit and that's something you have to be honest with yourself we've talked a lot about that it's okay to kind of walk away from those relationships too if it doesn't feel right there has to be that connection and from the mentors point of view I always tell mentors at least you know the ones that have been the best for me that you have to find a way and it's really hard to sort of not project your biases or feelings under that person or your experiences but you have to come from their perspective one hundred percent of the time you cannot try to get in there and figure out what's right or what's wrong for that person who always have to be coming from their point of view at all times it's not easy to dio anyone else I had a high school history teacher I find that like he was my teacher freshman year of high school who is a really incredible persons that took him ten years to get his teaching certificates he just kept leaving the country um which is really cool because that's kind of what I aspired teo and he has been a really great mentor and I traveled with he and his wife his parents, his daughter in south africa for five months um and just has been a great person tio comeback teo and talk to you about what I'm doing and where I am in life and it's really nice to have somebody to email me like this really awesome thing happened and know that he's really excited on my behalf as awesome and I will talk about this some more later as well but I'm sure he feels you know so lucky to have you as mental as well but it's something that I cannot stress enough and mr duffy and I were talking about this this weekend that you've got to got to got to reach out and say thank you and sometimes that means you can do something for them but a lot of times it's a simple fact of letting them know that you're so thankful for having them in your life is actually that simple but it's really easy to take it for granted by accident so they gratitude goes a long, long way do we have any from the internet? Yes, we have one from starling, which is pretty like a nice success story says I'm a mentor taught me to spin yarns help me to get into a master's certification program and share with me oliver very talented network of suppliers, bearers, retailers, et cetera and superhero rift people think I I have the leading guy in my industry invite me into his family and personal circle so I could understand what he actually takes in a day's time to be successful, not what people think it take interesting and from here the shows that spans the ages is as well ks pieces I've a photography mentor who just turned ninety years old she was quite the successful photographer in her day. She always tries to go with me to shows, gives advice and even goes to their photos to deal with me you trip so you got gets a big age gap there so I would love it I'm just gonna throw this out there because there's no right and wrong absolutely not it's an experience in relationship that you have, but I find this at about this kind of same time in the time that the class that I teach that we get down the road somehow of convincing ourselves or sit confusing the difference between what mentors do for you as a person and what you do for a living, or so a couple of those I immediately sort of lean to internally thinking that sounds like an advisor, ok, that sounds like an adviser that sounds like an adviser and it's it's no right and wrong, and we're going to work through that that that example next? Actually, because when it's specific around a certain it might be a hobby, it could be a passion. It could be a career choice, but it's, as long as that person has their same similarities of their same characteristics that we're talking about that they're challenging us a person fundamentally, not necessarily in the task, the hobby or the skill that you're trying to be good at, what they're challenging. The questions are the decisions you make in life are they people that are actually helping you critics, your moral compass, your ethical, you know, kind of north on a regular basis? Are they, you know, invested in success is a person not just through a particular skill or accomplishment. And these things will believe through of lead over a lot there's there's a lot of gray here it's not meant to be a rigid on purpose. I just want to challenge the concept so you can thing inc through in your own life, it could be the scheduling thing as simple as that, or it could be something a little harder. We're realizing I spend time with this person, but we really talking about the things the most important to me are we talking more may be on a focus point or in particular scale or a particular part of my career. There's a clarification question for laura mukti sure online, who says, are we talking about someone who is being paid for being a mentor or coach? Or are we specifically? Are we speaking specifically of anyone who is volunteering as a mentorship too? So I think it's really interesting question I mean, I've seen a lot of people that are life coaches and and that's, you know it to be completely transparent. I don't I can't tell you whether that relationship is the same or not. I've had friends that have had life coaches that they've paid for you compensate them for and they have very positive reviews I've never been in a scenario where that's a paid or compensated relationship ever either being the mentee or the mentor so unfortunately I'm probably not the right person to speak directly to but just in this conversation we're talking about one or the other or both I would say it's both I mean I would imagine that it would be even more so if you're paying and you're not getting these things can get for free so and I think it's it's when we talk about advisers I'm happy I ask or answer that same question because there is a component with advising that we could talk about that makes a little more sense when it comes to compensation so for me just quickly to give you that my perspective on that I talked about this kind of profound moments of my life and it was hard for me last night as I rode through this because I did the same thing I made not a mistake but I did the same thing I wrote down names of people he said, oh, that was definitely a mentor that's a mentor and I went back to the couple mr duffy masoum festive eldon elliott and I thought about that you know, the other people in that context the people that were the profoundly the most deep sort of relationships that have altered permanently the direction of my life I thought that there's other people and I said huh I don't call them when I'm scared and I'm surgeon I called them when I have to be specific I think I'm trying to work in higher education, solve this problem, and I call the people that were the deans of the schools and physicals I went to and I talked to them, but then it comes it's around context, then it's not open ended its not the searching part of my life, and when I say mentors help you become better people, they help you because they help you search when you're not sure where to spend the energy, and you're not sure where to put all your passion and enthusiasm. You have, they help you refine and work through an experiment and try, and then you bring in the adviser when it's time to actually double down and work on a specific thing. So it is the same thing I did last night. I started writing it down and write these names left backspace, backspace, backspace andi comes down to really for people at this point, my life, which I feel so fortunate to have had that many that I can say we're truly the type of mentor in the way that we're describing it today. So if you're cool, but they were going to switch over to advisers were great, good to go awesome, cool, so let's switch over to do the same exact example with advising so I'm gonna go ahead and race this, but if you guys and go ahead and take a couple of minutes both online and in the studio to really write down the first question what is advising not to descriptions. Yes, now you know my whole formulas that only jump ahead just yet. But what's advising as a process will take about a minute however long it takes me to erase this we have any clarification for the internet. Was that good that's good again, going back to what we did with with mentor. Yeah, exactly improper and one of the things that was the most fearful of today is my mom seeing my hand right? And better that saying sorry, I know I learned how to write when I was a kid. You could use the computer all the time. So would you use need a mentor or an adviser? Probably advisor someone to really you know, something is great at handwriting. So who in the studio wants to share with us just a little bit about advising or any kind of descriptions, not scripted? Sorry, definitions. Yeah, I would say they can provide re sources and skills and they can give you suggestions, but not like definitive answers, what you shouldn't do interesting. See, I would put that in the exact opposite category because I would assume an adviser someone that has a little bit more that tactical or strategic experience around the thing you're asking and they was they might not tell you well you're twenty one hears the industry in the city you're in and the degrees you have an experience you have in here is the next step but it's going to probably be fairly tactical and and they obviously I would hope that most advisers are not just going to come in the room saying, well, I know what you should be doing and here's the plan you know, I hope that that's not what you're getting his help attorney off regardless, but I think they will give you insight and, you know, help you kind of ask questions too, but I feel like a mentor, that person that open ended open ended open ended just letting you guide yourself through the questioning process but obviously they will give you advice to mean their advisers, right? But what was the first way you described it? The second part was I was talking about uniting, finding the right so perfect I'm going to use the word connected because we're gonna come back to that later that did you have something? Yeah, I just said I'm getting a person effective advice resource is or direction pertaining to their specific like need on obviously based on the advisers expertise so let's, see, if you guys have helped me frame this up a little bit, we're kind of already doing this, which naturally happens, I find it's always goes on because now we know where it's all bleeding through, but let's, go zoom out for a second think about advising as a relationship because in the mentoring process, we talked a lot about the way you engage with that person I'd love to get some thoughts around. The relationship may be less the descriptions, and he thought about that. Yep, I'm sorry we're going, it gets a lot more professional and you're not really going to share your deepest, darkest fears with this person, okay, bringing in specific questions great, so preparation that's something that I always like to tell people it seems redundant, but I can tell you for sure a mentor has a lot more patients for the open endedness of a relationship that adviser. So you're working with an adviser. I always sort of tell people as if you were actually owned a company and you had a board of advisers we're going to talk to you about sort of a metaphor that similar, but I really think about would you show up to someone that invested in your company like a border ten people and say, oh yeah, I had thought about this and sit down the board room and talk about probably not so I think preparation with an advising relationship is absolutely paramount because you're likely going to lose the attention and the focus of that person which is the last thing you want to do what else? I kind of go along with those last two I think of it advising is more of a formal relationship on dh to go along with the preparation you you prepare and then they help you the adviser helps you refine your purpose I love that do everything from internet indeed we do first with people that mention like wow I just realized I had a mentor for a long time and I thought I was telling the boat by myself that that's miss dalia so people are realizing right now okay? I actually do have a mentor could have been a mentor to me today and my first creative lie actually I just started by I just got the uh just got this chills for a second there like that's that's a moment that happens in my class every time and it makes me so happy to know that someone could have been in scenario be right where they feel by themselves and we find this a lot with younger kids that we advise and mentor that they think they're by themselves and then this process helps him say wait a second I'm not by myself that's awesome thank you for sharing over that was thank you makes you miss dalia thank you so much I think for me a lot of hand written thankyou card going on the o yeah getting to advise and there's a whole bunch on here bay first uh see duncan's photo I think advising involves assessing a process or situation or approach in a specific field um uh sh aging and adviser gives someone a specific advice on something they're asking or wondering about um we've got people who already answering it seems like the second question so the jorge eighty toronto says advising is field specific expertise available to learn by others love it perfect let me go through a little bit of what I written down maybe this confirmed I was already bleeding into the next part and we'll just keep going free form but I said that you know generally advising relationships are focused on achieving something very specific so they're not so free form and and I feel like the goals can be ambiguous is totally fine one thing I don't want to do again is that these rigid constructs of what it has to be I've had advisers like I said that our short as a couple of weeks the advisers like my technical advisor in silicon valley he's a technical adviser both professional reasons but anything technical and I assume he will be for decades to comment someone I always go to so that's, an advising relationship is not a deep personal thing, but it's technology. I go to him always. And then I think it's professional in tactical we talked a lot about that. I feel like it's less of the qualitative it can be again. These people can be both. So I'm gonna adviser animus toward the multiple people. I generally will take a more qualitative approach regardless. But I want people to really think about the advising relationship should be like certainly more than and mentoring relationship should be quantifiable or measurable in these is not not saying like dollars and cents everything else but there needs to be something that you actually have succeeded or failed or change the parameters off it's not something that just ethereal and continually floating out there and so then you've either not done or done and now what's next. So I think that's interesting you just mentioned about failing as well. Same cox had asked earlier, and I think it could go for her mentors and advising. But I wonder if they would agree that a good mentor came to that will have had and admit to failures as well. A successes. Oh, that's perfect, I hope both for sure I I usually do this class a little differently. We're going to the next piece we're going to get into, but I had this whole section normally I tweaked a little bit based on some feedback, but I usually ask people to write out what their most scared about, like fear like what do you really terrified of trying to do in your life, or what do you feel like? You might fail that completely because that's, where these advisers mentors come in super handy, and I love that that person will have admitted that I think it's goes on the humility. But if someone comes in to anyone's relationship, anyone's world said that they haven't failed like they've no hits home runs every single time that two thousand it's very likely that all of you will get turned off by that and probably won't believe them is just not true. Obviously, all of us have been in scenario b at some point when we aren't sure we try and one of the best quotes that I'll have to put it out there, so I want to take it was from professor felten, and it was when I did a I did my my my kind of end exam for my master's program. And I just hold on, we'll not going to do your assignment and, you know, obviously that wasn't what you want to say to your professor when you're trying to graduate from master's program, but I told him I said, I'm gonna write music, and I'm a classically trained pianist and had been producing for a long time, so I wrote a piece of music for my final and I got a good grade on and everything else, and it was this really tough moment because I'm sure the whole conversation talk, taking off center if you don't really know what that feels like, there will be a moment your life for someone just really hits you right here, and it just kind of takes you back for a second going man, like, no one's ever said it like that, or I've never really felt it like that. And so he told me, and I played piano for over twenty years, produced two albums, been mobile bands and all this stuff, and he said to me, which really killed me because he said he got a lot of the music himself is a moment time where kind recipe with him and you said, so, you know, part of me for saying it like this, but when are you going to do something that you might actually fail that and I said, wait a second he's like honest to god you knew you could already do this so why why was it worth trying? And it killed me because I felt so proud of this stuff I had made multiple albums on itunes you know, I have been playing as a free and specially trained penis and concert penis and like, what do you mean like most? Well, pat me on the back for this and here's this guy that's been there the whole time saying you knew you could do that when you started so why was it worth attempting? It probably wasn't and that killed me killed me so I love that that conversation I say that's people all the time and it's okay it's takes a lot of confidence actually stretch were you actually, like fall off the cliff that's where the structure helps a time because they actually will tell you when you're kind of like believe in your own stuff a little bit too much you're thinking like, well, I'm really trying you're probably not it's nice to have these advisers of these mentors to kind of take you off center and say, look, is that really what you should be doing? Are you really stretching and trying? Is it possible you could fail? Could you what's failure anyways self expression is really hard to fail at anything else would be in it that's just that touches neighbors sure, we liked it. We talk a lot about failure here great alive. I'm sure. So I love that you're bringing that up. What's the one thing we like to talk about is failing with purpose. And, uh, mark wallace was the instructor who talked about that a lot and I just ties right into what we're doing here. So why don't we move on to some descriptions? So we've got some are ready, but I'd love to start of the audience. I'm sure we called it a whole lot more, many descriptors for advisers were going just cheat, you steal a lot of those over here, so connected is definitely one experienced. Oh, yeah, now the handwriting's really coming out? I'm going to go fast. Oh, I'd say, you know, experience or expert. Okay, what else can rule rome? Brian candid. Yeah, I would hope that you'd have a candid relationship with the people that are investing time and energy into you. Vanessa fall says qualified and informed, informed like that, so think qualified private that experience category in there go for it. Yeah, I'll say track record and that could go to experience for sure, I'm sure you don't want to go to, you know, work with someone now again, it goes to failure, though I like to tell people that there's a there's, no right answer, but you can absolutely, and I've experienced this where I've been really let down by some of the choices I've made before, uh, that's the worst I mean, there's part of being taken off center, but you accomplish something, you know, someone maybe push back on it, but when I found that some of the people that I had put in those adviser adviser all sort of positions in my life, and I found out later, they want the people that they said they were got wrenching terror felt awful because I mean, and to be transparent about the emotions behind that, when you will follow someone and they're taking you down the path, and they're leading you giving us advice, and you're working towards something, you find out later, it's either not true, they haven't done it or it doesn't work out, and then it all kind of unravels. I feel like, you know, zoom back to a couple that I made some pretty poor decisions and that's part of process, but I think it took me, give or take two to three years, you emotionally get over some of those decisions, and I realized that when it came up, I get that kind of feeling in my gut like so really bothered by this I'm not ok with it that happened in my life that I did that to me or that like I didn't tell me the truth and it's just I think for recently a couple that kind of a fallen off that emotional cliff where we were kind of like it's great experience of glad it went through it what you gonna do but yet I would say I don't think there's a word for this but an adviser typically knows you by your work he knows less about your personality and who you are I let's go she's professional for now as because is not that person there's the relationship for sure okay, so to say, well, this but like you know versus personal here but I totally agree with that and again not not completely regimented, right it's possible they can know you someone but it's more likely they won't know you like a mentor well, yeah, I'm just like one little thing you're just talking about like about yourself. Yeah. How did you kind of get over that or how did you like so, like trust the next person or you know what I mean? Like how do you stay positive? How do you yeah, I know it's hard it's not easy failing is I feel like there's a there's a process to go through and I always tell people that you are where you're supposed to be in the feeling you're feeling or completely which you're supposed be feeling like everyone copes differently and there's no right or wrong way to do that so when it comes down to that mean I had some moments are just sort of block people off for a while I just went to mentors exclusively and I know I lost a lot of time time in between where I could have been developing myself professionally but then some of the other people that have been there like you know, different people in my career they start proving themselves and having me looking like, you know, looking at them as an adviser as are realizing oh, you were there two years ago I wasn't looking for advisors but here now that I am that person knew me then they at least have a feeling they're going to be a little more trustworthy think they're probably going to be a little bit better then the other choices I made but in terms of getting over it it's a process and that's actually always tell people it's kind like a grieving process to be honest, I feel like getting over failure is very much like losing a loved one it's a very similar cycle of emotions that need to go through and you need to go through all of them so it's not easy that's the right answer but I feel good to trust in that process and you have to trust that you know humanity is nice and good and positive anything else with internet yeah a good one here is one from rodney bed soul and the word he uses is confident and I don't think you want to go to your visor and ask a question like maybe a maybe be maybe see that's exactly right I had a finance professor my undergraduate business program and he walked into class the first day when you said we're not going to learn how to invest on wall street we're not going to be trading stocks and all that he was actually have a terrible track record using the stock market now the media is like and why you teaching and that's the first thing I think right now I'd say that but I don't come in and tell us I'm really not good at this but let's get the learning s o I totally agree and we have one more here from from allen and I'll be interested in your perspective on this base one who gives suggestions not solutions two different things right right and I think that's actually probably good for advisers as well has been tours I don't think prescription is the right way to go for anyone it's very unlikely that anyone can know exactly how it's going to play out for you they know their experience, they might have dozens of advises like I do or mentees like ideo and you can kind of see some patterns, but the patterns come out in the kind of basic behaviours, not super prescriptive or specific behaviors you're not going to say well, here's, how you need to you know here's a type of company in type of person he reach out to and why it's more general than that, but focus around the goal the whole time. But I think that that concept of like not being so general on not being so prescriptive there's a fine line, and I like to tell mentors and advisors to it's so important to understand this I said this earlier that we're talking about people's lives and their careers it's is not trivial and you need to be really sensitive to what your advice might mean to that person and what you know, the kind of impact it could have both coming from your perspective is the venti you're advising as well that you're trusting in that person is not a trivial undertaking to give that trust to someone it's your life on dh you should expect the same sort of responsibility and and that sort of emotion and in that person realizing that there's some gravity to it and so you should feel that relationship with that connection with them I also wrote down strategic which I generally find my advising relationships to be much more strategic, because I'm creating a strategy or process that I think will help that person be successful, whatever the goal is versus a mentee, it's much more wide open it's more of a blank canvas. I also said invested, which we might have had this kind of in here before, but that kind of gets back tio the process of giving the time, which is both mentors and advisors, but I feel like they need to have some sort of investment in thiss they're like stakes at the table, and I want to go back to the question that you had from the internet because this this really opened up the conversation of compensation to me. And have any of you in the audience had an adviser in a professional setting that had compensation losers just recently? Actually, okay, I go on for to help me with starting my business and he's actually guy like I met through my previous job, he's, taking candle lessons that I worked at, yeah, so cool and he's like we're both musical, but and he like it was cool because I brought him all this stuff that I wanna do with my business, and it was all these crazy ideas and whatever and then he just said to me, he's like hold up like who's your customers go home, write a list of who's, your customer and that's all I want you to think about for a week and it just like it totally like opened up so much more for me than what I was getting from just like trying to do it myself. So is he was he being compensated by you at all? Or was he invested in the company he's gonna be compensated? Probably awesome, so the reason I want to bring it up is I don't think that this is something we need to get too far into, but because someone asked, I think it's at least a good general conversation to have I would generally lean towards the concept of free still that's a relationship I found and I know that most people that are great mentors and advisors always say this that we get asthma out of it, as the mintier advising does and I make the joke always that don't worry, I am stealing from you constantly like I am taking all the energy you have in the ideas and all your world experience that I don't have and it's making me a better person all the time both for myself but also to help others so just to kind of quickly open this and close it there is a formal way to deal with investment from advisers if you're talking about a business or some very specific structure there's actually businesses out there right now, and if you ever heard of these types of business models that, as a student, you can sign up if you're a certain age when you're younger and take money from people to go to school, when you're like let's, say seventeen, eighteen, nineteen twenties, everything under twenty three or twenty five, and you can get money just going to go take a loan or something, and then these individuals and invested money and you once you kind of like, almost like a crowdfunding sort of platform where you say, here I am in my life, here's what I want to do his own college people can choose you and dump money into you as a person, and then they get some small fraction of your earnings through the next twenty years of your life, so they take back a little bit as you make money and the jobs and the things that you d'oh because they helped give you the money earlier in your life when you needed it and didn't have it. But it's a similar concept where an adviser could be someone that you gave a percent your percentage of your business idea or wherever it might be but if you're getting your adviser more generally, you know, based on let's say you know I want to be working you know, on this type of project and whatever it is it's a nursing or could be education and you won't have an adviser well until it's really something I always tell people like don't worry about it if you're not willing to help on something that isn't even a business yet probably I could be a great adviser later once it is it's probably better to find the person is willing to put in the work early when it's just an idea and you're working through the basic idea like that person is where it's like who's your customer that's the person you want when you actually have the business up and running because they actually care about you in the business long term versus oh now it's a profitable business and it's exploding I'd love to advise you now way although those people have a share anything else on the internet for descriptions uh yes one has I guess kind of goes to teach but uh sam cox is analytical yep analytical mind you know analytical doesn't have to be just, you know quantitatively focused right that can analyze the different angles you know I think it's both let's leave that for both so I feel like either some really great mentors that our analytical as well so it sounds like we're already kind of hit this natural you know transition so why won't take a minute? We're going to the same thing we did for mentor so what experiences have you had with advisers? So he heard one already, which is great but love feels a just a minute sixty seconds to write down and experience you've had with an adviser and then we're gonna get together and talk about it just a comment sure craziness I love I love seeing what happens in our online community as they start to do stuff around what's going on here and uh he george created a word a ll about all the words that are coming through for describing a mentor I was just trying to do this on my website literally two days ago so please send it to really this beta bay at me dot com I I was just trying to do something similar to this so I would love to use this well we'll get out captured the link for you thank you that's awesome thank you for doing that let's start with some who in the studio audience feels comfortable talking a little bit about their experience we already have one great example yet at the companies that now we, uh I had the chance to speak with potential advisers and they were just referenced their friend and when they came to the office it was we didn't really get a get a sense of who they were because there was just this looming idea that we're not going to help you out this is the advisers were not going to help you out until you pay us and that had a big impact on us and we quickly said no and the guys were actually advising us now we're paying for them but they came in to work for free in the beginning and before we even realize like yeah, of course will pay for them because they've helped us out so much already I'm glad you said that I am I feel really uncomfortable with people that feel like their ideas or their time is always worth something like I never really understood that I mean, if you don't pay it forward, I don't know how you expect to ever get it back. I just don't understand that concept and something I've learned in my career to is that to be honest that they're at least a thousand people they could do exactly what you do I mean, maybe more so it's hard for me to ever think, you know well, my idea not only is it not unique where that's valuable to you and you'll pay for it it's a relationship it's trust first and the fact that you can see I'll be there for you, I'll be there were goes how bad I guess I'll be there when you need me when you're completely blank or when things were going wrong, just like I am in the good times and I feel like that's a trusting relationship first, I'm glad you brought that up because I am I encountered that a lot, especially around, you know, technology start ups, and I just feel like if there was a silver bullet, everyone be using it like if there was a defined way, be successful at everything or make companies that are profitable than everyone would be doing that right? So it's it's more based on relationships and the trust that it takes actually rely on that person, so I'm glad you've had that experience because now you know to look for on I hope that you will tell you guys take that forward to and that you give away your time and your advice and your experience that people always say it's about access and education, so give away your access and give away your education and your resource is information to everyone you can it will always come back, so what other experience do you have any from online? We do have a couple here one person eternal student has a pretty cool uncle her uncle advised her when she was twelve about keeping an open mind about religion, education that's this unique advising there but one or more practical when we have here from the nest is my adviser, I can hash out issues without local market gear, promotions, et cetera. It's ah kind of education and information kind of dialogue that's awesome! I'm sure that person's available when she needs her to go through the specific moments and again is it seems very topical, which makes a lot of sense. It's hard to find, you know advisers are generally not so broad. They then move into the mentorship kind of realm very quickly have you guys it's ok, if you have, you know, had experiences with advisers you have with my ears, I have, uh, she's a family friend who I've been chatting with a lot because I'm interested in working in health. And so she's been like sending out e mails on my behalf and kind of giving me advice and it's been really great that's perfect is actually a great segue way what we're going to do next, so now that we've defined what we think of mentor is we've done that together and then who they are, we've done the same thing with advisers we have some experience is out there that start kind of making sense to dive in a little bit further, but what I want to do is transition to what I love and is the whole point that matters, like now what? What we dio okay, we feel like we have a working definition of both kind understand where they are, how they bleed over. So what do we do now and what's next? So I have a concept that I picked up, and I think it was it was probably four or five years ago, I heard about this concept of a personal board of advisers, and I'm going to use the word as advisers very generally here because there's, they'll see what I mean later involves your mentor as well, but I want you guys to take a minute, and this is the part we talked a little bit earlier about sort of fear this is the really important part of the transition, and you would have done this already today or you've done this sometime recently, but I need you guys to be really honest with yourself and open and reflect on where are you today? Are you absolutely just completely lost and you're searching and you're so ready to go, do some, you're not sure what it is. Or do you already know what you're working on your toiling away? And you're putting all your energy and your resources into doing that? Because mentors or generally awesome for making a better person and help you with that search? Advisers of the people we bring in when it's time to really knock something out and achieve something, yeah, go ahead, but what if, you know, like, the first step? Maybe, and you've got that really align, but you're sort of are still exploring the future of where you want to go with sure. So it's, it might be a little bit of both, but I really want challenge the internet audience as well as well as you guys, and this is I mean, this is a little I mean, obviously we're on camera, right? So it's a little odd to sit here and think, you know, very introspectively for a minute, but once you guys be really self aware for the next, like, sixty seconds, ninety seconds and just be oser yourself in a way couple triggers that you might want to ask yourself, are things that you're scared out scared of right now, something you really worried that you might fail out, that might be coming up, it could also be something that you just really have had a challenge, starting or it could be that you're completely lost and you have a less energy enthusiasm but just take a little bit of time kind of ask it afterwards ok cool so sick about sixty seconds and write something down enough for online cool when I raised this we can work on this exercise this not sure I'm going to talk to this bay but somebody has asked I've seen this a couple times now oscar matic can one be both a mentor and it is adviser to the same person or is that best to choose one role I think it's completely dependent on the relationship my best friend elliot and I have a you know so that kind of bilateral relations both always where we have moments where we're dealing with really mentorship categories where it's you know my highlight to find happiness how you define success deep introspective type challenges I'm running into but also very tack double and specific professional things we're trying to accomplish as well I think that's sort of the holy grail maybe that's if you can find someone that's both it really help streamline that process on guy think that is sort of presents itself naturally is probably something you don't think about one is going to be both to someone I think that evolves over time where you realize well I've been probably I would assume it probably goes the other direction it probably starts advising it becomes a mentor where's mentors probably don't become advisers necessarily police has been my experience I don't think it's totally concrete, but and we have another comment here from from amy e j and she says, uh my advisers are the creative live instructors, but that action well also because that means you have a lot on you having all the time this killer, what I'd like to do is open up justice at the town with what I wrote down this actual very challenging for me as well on dh then I'm going to jump in and start hearing your question or your responses and instead of the grid. So for me, I'm completely searching and I know dale talked a little bit about that, but I recently left my career at apple and I mean this very defined moment in life where I'm not started or joining anything on purpose and the point is to really try as many things as I possibly can. I have a mantra for my life? I say always liketo live my life in beta and I like to live where I am, how I am today and be ok when I'm failing and be okay to tell the world if I'm not doing ok at things or if I'm scared or challenged or don't know something and so for me I say that I have so much energy and passion for so many things so waking up every day just putting everything I have to out there see seeing what sticks just trying things make artificial timelines and artificial boundaries all the time tried to of anything and I do more of what I like and less of what I don't and it's this very defined process that I set for myself in a time in life where I could pull this off so I could really figure out what I want to do with all that energy enthusiasm so for me mentors by far are the people that I'm reaching out to at this point in my life I'm reconnecting with my tours have had for years they haven't long time because they knew me at different times my life and having more universal perspective of who I am is a person that really helped me informa's I tell them the little tactical things and trying and you know the spaghetti that I'm going on the wall that they're saying, oh it's kind of I could see that or tell me more about that and then all of a sudden you ask yourself maybe I shouldn't be doing that. So for me that's absolutely where I am my life right now is I'm just searching and open open kind of plate right now and I'm trying to figure it out so I love to hear from me start with you all right? Well you know mine is actually not searching for the goal or anything it's actually transition earlier we were talking to dale I have four kids I have a story and you know and my job is I'm a wildlife firefighter, you know? So I work when there's fires appear you know, it's seasonally and I'm actually transitioning this weekend where my new role is actually being in charge of four different fire crews from being in charge of one crew on dh you know? And so during the off season or the academic year for my wife, you know, I was at home with my four kids on I got to hang out with my kids now I'm leaving that and going toe you know what? I'm going to back to a full time position, which I haven't done in five years so are you scared about the transition uh not so much scared, but I'm looking forward to it but you know, there's there's a big part of it that I'm losing with, you know, with the kids and, you know, and watching them grow on developing, teaching them cool new things that's awesome, so you're focused on transition? What about you? Yeah, I'm kind of in an odd state because I want to be in the adviser stage and like trying to build out this idea that I have in this this business by m still in school and I'm really losses to like whether I still need to be in school I was I should like if I should leave like I have two quarters left but I don't know if I should finish it I just stop and go and lie I put up all of my focus and energy into it so it's kind of I like want to be the environment stage but I think I need to step back a little bit and have those mentors and the kind of guys that decision process first yeah no, I would agree with that I would say that it sounds like you're in that mentor in a bucket for sure uh just cloak leo for fun I tell you I hired one of my first employees at apple he dropped out of princeton with one semester to go I would just say just finish it you're either there it's not a bad thing you could even do poorly and get a bunch of seas or something and still be spending your time doing other things so walk out with a piece of favor so not not a terrible process what about yourself? Um I'm kind of in the middle of my university education right now and I think that kind of when I tell people with what I'm sitting there was like, oh, so what you gonna dio and del amo fashion I kind of have an idea, but I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up, and I don't think anybody really does, but trying to figure out kind of a better, more concrete concept of what I want to d'oh, I feel like the hardest part with that, I'm sure all of us have felt that, too is just taking the first step because I was talking with a couple of senior senior class is back in his home over the holiday, and some kids were telling me that they're scared about choosing a major because how are they going toe? Learn everything they want to learn or it's about their even passionate about, and dale is a great example of you're going to be learning the rest your life, so your next step is by in no way indicative of which will end up doing with your life, even if you don't like doing which are, you know, doing next, we are good at it, or you're great at it doesn't matter, we're going to do whatever you feel like doing, and I feel like it's it's just listening to the feedback, trusting your gut more than anything and just taking your first step, you know, I'm sure every one of us here can tell a story that sounds completely arbitrary now if you look back at it I want to be a marine biologist swimming with dolphins and quickly realized that was not what I wanted to do with my life way went to business school instead and then I was an accountant could not want to be anything less than an accountant left that quickly there's no way I could go back and you pictured all this but I trust that it's going to be all right but you just have to kind of like lower the level of stress and not inflate I feel like we do that often that's something I always tell people that were really good it over inflating the risks at hand we're really good at increasing disproportionately from your out reality, the decision we're making and the kind of contacts that it's in it's just easier than you're making it out to be we stress out on lot as people and we don't need to um yeah or relevant question is what you want to get your life right now it's good point so let's transition because we have a couple more questions and I'm going to kind of start by include all of them actually in the one exercise that I want to do with you guys so for people that are home you can flip to the last page we have a grid that I've given you so this is a personal board of advisers grid and I've taken this from my own experience and a lot of people that have used this in different contacts and kind of made it my own this is the one that I use so challenge about proposed to you now is keep in your sort of ram you know, the thought process used to side like whatever the thing is what would be your transition the decision to leave school or not whether it be what you want to be when you grow up or just do next and let's keep that front of mind as we use this grid and I mean I think I can get it up on the screen here so we have a couple of questions that can do this on your own time too but the question is who can help you go through this process so who's going to be the support for you while you go through the exploration or decided they are trying to achieve something and you know it might be a transition but we also want to make sure that if you don't know who these individuals are how are you gonna be able to find them and how can you best engage them so we're going to take all those in sequence or sorry in real time why create this grid so for those of you at home I went ahead and put it here on the keynote I'll replicate it very quick and dirty here on the screen but for everyone now take a moment for sixty seconds why build this and we're going to just think about who can you fill out on this grid so you have domain experts and you have industry experts if you look at your sheet have defined the difference here so for doing the next domain expert it should be someone that has experience in the medium through what you're trying to work through so it could be that you're trying to accomplish though making a piece of software so you probably should have an engineer on your team something can advise you on how to make software whereas if you want to write curriculum for education you probably have in structural designer on your team where you're born advisers where's the industry is actually mean difference that someone in that vertical that specific industry that you need to work with so let's say you're making software for coffee shops or cafe owners well you probably should talk to some of that owned a lot of coffee shops are opened a lot of cafes and if you want to let's say make curriculum for someone that's you know a returning veteran from war you probably want to have someone that's been in the military as an adviser so I know that could seem somewhat similar does that make a little more sense and I've described it because you need both they're both critical the mentor someone we've already talked about so is that person is going to know you and help you along the way of regardless now a connector we talked quite a bit about throughout the process we use that word a lot with advisers so you're going to need someone that just can connect the dots for you they don't necessarily although it's helpful that have one or the other it's nice if you could find some sort of connected both in the industry and the domain for you but you probably already know those people it is no the first you know when I don't know I call that person that person just seemed to know everyone you but I want to start with them and maybe they start low first and you find people that are more relevant for you over time they might be medium and then you find the best connector force you're trying to accomplish and then I said pipe I've heard the word celebrity before I'm not a huge fan of that I don't like the connotations I say a pipe is someone that in that specific goal our thing you're trying to achieve there just sort of a household name in that space so just by association they validate your attempt er you as a person and what you're trying to accomplish because they will have allowed you to use their brand it doesn't have to be that you can call them every night, but they've said, I like this person, they're smart, they're working hard. I'm ok if you cite me as being on your board of advisers, so I'm gonna go ahead, just throw this. You know what? Actually it's probably going to be hard taking all your feedback in real time, so I'll do it. I'll just ask you guys instead, let's talk about the transition with a question for you, do you find that you have the same person in multiple categories? It's possible? I think what you just want to make sure that you don't have a lot of gaps and you're going tohave gaps. Naturally, this is just sort of an ideal scenario, so when you're trying to develop that person board advisers, the names might change in and out, depending on what you're trying to accomplish, too. So you definitely to switch out your domain experts, air industry experts from time to time mentors probably stay fairly consistent over time. The connectors probably say fairly consistent unless you really change that like crazy, you're in technology for ten years, my son, you're going to like, you know, health or something, and then vips same thing, one thing that I want to call out to everyone here is that the reason I put high, medium and low are for is just to help you know that it's ok, if you don't think you have the perfect fit that you could start somewhere, I have a lot of people when I asked them is this is some of the academic collapse of camps I've loved. Some of the stories of it are the examples I've gotten. I've asked someone who you want to reach out to, and I'm talking to a female and they're saying, I want accomplishing of people specific education and opportunities, everything else, and they wanted to oprah like awesome, absolutely so let's work backwards from over and let's figure out how, although one of our friends is actually talked over, but it's it's one of those things that you want to go ahead and put them on there and then probably reverse down if you got who has similar experiences and relationships and connections and get closer to people you can actually reach out to or get the introduction to that way. Why you might have all highs is people that you'll currently no today, that over time you'll find yourself, you know, in the same circles are coming across the past more frequently, and it might feel comfortable one day to reach out, but this way you feel like you at least have the support you need. And it's, not something like there's, huge gaps everywhere and like, well, how do I talk to open if I don't talk to oprah? I can't possibly be successful, you know, z easier to have some of this people that you can quickly look up and get you an introduction to overnight. So does anyone feel comfortable enough feeling a couple more minutes to kind of give these an example pie, take one from the studio audience of someone wants to try to help out? I can also go over mine or have dale work off of his and he and we want to go for us do it. Yeah, I have an aunt, her name suzanne, and she works in the robotics industry. Awesome. I've always thought that was something cool and recently been speaking with their more but what it takes to work in an industry like that. And what are the different areas that one can work in that industry? Where would you put her? On the grid? Medium mentor. Awesome. So she has domain expertise, but you're just excited because she's just generally helping you understand? Yeah, that's. Awesome. Who else would you put on your list, I would put actually my neighbor from back. I can probably say his name. Yeah, but his name's charlie from back home and he's actually the head of the computer science department at the university of central florida. Nice. So he's, someone who always like to speak with and ask about where would you put him on the grid? I would probably put him a high industry expert. Awesome that's. Great. Perfect. You're so that I mean, how great is that? You already have someone that's high in the category. And it's probably likely he knows someone that's a domain expert as well. Yeah. That's killer that's. Amazing. Anyone else wanna share an example? Would you have any from online this little harder online? Probably, but maybe until you see there's anything to take away from the internet, not a specific ones online, but I'm realizing a couple people that I've actually met here creative life would fall into that realm for me specifically in the high expertise with domain expert and what's really important here, guys, is that this is just a tool that you can keep up to date, and I actually generally have multiple people in certain bucket. So domain experts, I might have three in medium it's not to say I have access to all those people, but they're three that I think would be good fits and I might try my find my way into getting to one of them or v I p airport even harder for that what's great for me is I've had the experience so far of mentors were I'm pretty locked up in the man times I feel really comfortable I feel very lucky they can quickly go up and down my my realm of mentors finding too and thoughts about the person board of advisers, the word advisers pregnant and on a different word for it but they're both mentors and advisors this is just to help you have the support that you need whether you're in the search of the achievement part of your life and something you can keep up to date all the time and you feedback or thoughts I'm good yeah yes my main question is like my mentor was given to me but I've never really had to ask for one are out like like leaving my mentor advisor anything that could be kind of like an awkward useful conversation have how would you go about having this's really good? I'm glad you brought this up because I had a whole theo part that we didn't get to which is how do you engage with your advisers or your mentors? I think it's really important that you have that honest conversation dale and I had a good conversation about this that when someone lets you know that you know hey I really want you to be my mentor it's so important they could not formalize it like write a contract where for people do and for advisers obviously you need to sometimes but I think it's really important that you had that kind of crystallized moment of letting them know that I just really want you to be a mentor in someone I could go to regardless what I'm going through the same with advisers because if you leave it kind of open it sounds like we've had experience already with someone that you're trying to get in touch with them and it's hard to get in touch with them and I feel like just by you know, communicated you might alleviate that frustration of trying to get in touch with that person because they know that they're that person to you I also feel that by opening yourself up and putting yourself out there that person will meet you halfway as well really the the thing that I think the most important I wrote this is an entire question we can actually go back to that piece so how can you best engage your advisors and your mentors and your personal ward advisers and I feel like it needs mia's formal or informal as you want to make it I give people examples that there's certain you know, relationships and adviser mentors have had that are really short and then really long I've had ones that are really formal and really informal I've had some that are incredibly intense and some that are very relaxed and there's no right way to do it with some of the best things that I've kind of experiencing and found to work in my career has been the feedback loop is probably first and foremost the most important snarling communicating that you are that person but that you let the person know what you're taking away and then letting them know what you did about it it was a great quote that I heard which is um you know it's only my opinion until you do something about it then it becomes advice because everyone has an opinion but you could be doing with your life you have your own opinions but if you could sign go act on it so let's say I'm one of your mentors and I give you some feedback we have a great conversation and then I don't talk to you for three months it's fairly likely that it's you know I'm going to not lose interest cause of a mentor I'm there for whatever you want to go through but it's really hard for me to know did I help out? I did what I tell that person to do was it relevant to do anything about it because I'm happy to give new advice and I'm happy tio give them new resources and connections and input without knowing what you did about it and let that person know it's very hard to develop that relationship and it's nearly impossible to actually keep that person engaged in developing you over time advisers can be more formal so you can absolutely have a structured agreement I always tell people so we talked about mentors you had the example of your mental well being hard maybe to get in touch with could just be an adviser but I always held with advisers especially when they're critical moments in your life or career like the business or developing that you need to be very, very, very transparent with a person of what you're expecting and it's ok if they don't want to do that so it might be I need you an hour a week for the next month when I was going through my transition and apple I mean I believe you know, I labored over that for a year but in the three months leading up there were a few people that I told them I'm going to require their time because I'm leaning on you to go jump off a cliff by myself and I need you there to be my support you know when I fall and you're not there is going to hurt a whole lot worse for me and you know, it's going to damage our relationship to so I've been as prescriptive without writing anything down there saying I just need to make sure you're available over the next few months that I'm going to reach out to as frequently as I need to it's going to likely be at least an hour a week, if not more, and make sure that they're ok with that. I was just I think specificity when looking to engage people is really key, absolutely, I found when I'm when I'm trying to reach out to people, uh, the more specific I can be both in terms of the specific piece of knowledge that I want from them as well as can talk to you for five minutes yet is makes it much easier to connect with someone engaged with someone and start that relationship that could develop into ended by their ship or mental. Absolutely, yeah, I was going to say if if I wanted to email someone for the first time and I wanted to ask him for advice, how would I frame the question? So it doesn't sound like I want a job six months down the road. This is pro, I get this all the time and I've been struggling or tackling the idea of should I have sort of email templates on my website is a tool for people because a lot of people don't feel comfortable with that same exact problem, so I always say that you need to try to give first before you ask and most people and a lot of people say, well, I'm too young, I don't have the experience and what possibly could I give to the head of the this apartment or this expert in the field? I think you might be surprised, just like as a mentor or an adviser, we're always getting from our advises and our mentees all the time, but by letting him know very honestly, like you said be very specific and transparent, I'm not looking for a job call it out, and I'm absolutely on ly looking to answer the specific thing, it would be great if I could just rely and possibly getting email responses over the next few months if you'd like to engage like that. I would love that completely understand you're terribly busy, and if I don't get a response, I just want to say like, I'm a big fan of your work or I really respect what you d'oh it could be that simple, but I feel like that goes through anything in communications in your life that if you're worried about, like what it might sound like or say it say that you say I don't want this to come off like I'm looking for a job because I'm not, you know, I would love the opportunity to meet you one day for coffee or whatever it might be but really, what I'm going through is this, and this is why I'm reaching out to you, but also be okay again, depending where they fall in that grid, they're going up for a medium or high tempo contact you might not hear back from them and that's totally okay, I think one thing, tio, others that you can also say, hey, if you don't, I have the time to respond to this or you think there's someone more about relevant to respond to this, please filler might email to them and ask them to get in contact with absolutely that's that's the the type of the type of things that you can give it could be a simple as a small piece of product advice. Yep. Hey, I saw this, my friends and I don't think it resonates with our market or maybe it's an article that's relevant to what they do that you saw. I love that I always pay it forward, give people those things it could be, you know, you wrote this article, your professional professor and this were professional in that I just wanted, I just wondered, have you heard about these three things I find every time when you're dealing with experts almost always think about it, if you're an expert, you're focusing on something you generally don't have the time to be searching like people that are experts in that field so I generally find that I can inform them with a couple of ted talks or a couple of articles or a book or even you know company they've never heard of it's actually very easy that was I've never heard that because you're a consumer or user viewer of their products or their research or whatever it is you can actually give them that quick bit and it's just I think the intention behind it even if they do nothing with it it says a lot about who you are in the way you're approaching them is a person no matter what rolled into falling into later and it goes miles it pays dividends forever the other thing I found is when you phrase it as I really admire what you've done and totally honestly flattering someone they usually responding like I really want to be doing what you're doing now what advice you have for somebody starting out that's a really great start I would say again be as specific as you can because I get that sometimes too I get these e mails from you know employees of employees employees and I hear this and you know even I haven't been there and I hear well I heard you I hear you've done this I want to do that one day do you have any advice and the thing I really said was like, I don't even know where to start like I don't know you can you tell me more and I gently push back on them and say, like, take a day or two and really think about where you are in your life, I can send them some prompting questions, but I want them to take that process like tell me who you are like what are you going through and why that will let me even see if I could give you some advice for points in the right direction? So there are people that would say, sure, let's, get coffee, let's, go for, you know and that's great too, but I would try tio do some that legwork ahead of time. I'm always impressed by people that have done a lot of leg work, and we talk about preparation earlier, I think that's critical? Um, I guess if there's anything from internet one quick question for sure you bay is we talked about the mentors and the advisers, but briefly was the responsibility of the mentee you're the one being adviser that there's some quick dues or don't you can provide what you engage that mentor or adviser? Absolutely so we have we had on a couple of them, I think it's good to go back over him, so you absolutely need toe have gratitude and you need to show that to the mentor the adviser advisers need a little bit less civics the la times they're compensated but for even if it's a free sort of scenario they need to know that you're very, very, very thank awful for what they've done for you in the time that you give them it doesn't have to even be that they buy coffee. I don't tell you the last time of let's one buy me coffee but like it's just letting them know that you're thankful feedback loop is critical, letting them know what you did or didn't do it's okay to tell an adviser mentor you know, I really thought about that conversation we had two weeks ago and it just doesn't resonate or feel right to me and I don't think I could do that thing where I just don't I don't understand I don't I don't think I'm gonna move forward. Can we get another cup of coffee? I need to see if this is right or wrong or maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly but letting them know that instead of letting it go months and months if not never finish feeding back at all and potentially harming the relationship also, I think the concept of reverse mentor ship is really important to understand it's not rocket science either is that by doing your part being prepared being available, so don't make scheduling hard on your mentors or advisers that's the wrong way to go about it because they're the ones giving you your their time don't say they don't send back three males saying, I can't make any of those days yeah, that's probably the wrong way to start, but also giving them again the things you know access the world that you have, and as you grow up, you have more experience you're defining, to be honest, you have a lot to get a ton to give, and it could be that the industry expert it could be somebody just need someone that's completely out of your realm that can shed light or advice or give perspective to what you're trying to accomplish. So it don't think that just because you want, you know, a firefighter or whatever is that someone else can't add a tine of value or vice versa. So you're always getting from the people. But just as the menteri adviser think about that, like, what have I done for my adviser? My mentor mentor you recently, it could just be thank you and I'm telling you that goes so so, so far, but I really think that they understand that they are getting a lot out of this too but the more you can put in the more prepared you can be more engaged you could be in a relationship the more both of you are going to get out of it yeah absolutely a member has been absolutely fanta so from the community online but also here let's give this guy a big round of applause where can people find you so yes I've got my information here so beta bay dot info is the best way to define me you also follow me on twitter it's also just beta bay at me dot com but I have a website for tools so beta bay dot info slash schools slash find mentors and I'm going to continually update that I actually filled out the sheet here and I wrote yesterday on my website that I will take all the public nudging like push me to make tools or help out with what you want I am happy to do so I'm very very into giving that real feedback in real time and being transparent with the world so if you think that I was wrong on something or you think that I could make something better for you guys we have want me to help you out with something just please let me know I'm sure there's other people that have that same question I want that same resource but thank you all this has been such a fulfilling experience for me and dale. Obviously, for having me. Thank you guys, everyone online. This has been a great, great experience. And hopefully, continue kate and connected you guys on the internet.

Class Description

For most of us, getting a good education that prepares us for a satisfying, successful life and career means going to school and attending college. We pay our dues by sitting for hours in a classroom, doing the prescribed homework, and often paying tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of getting a degree from an institution of higher learning.

But that’s not the case for Dale Stephens, who decided at a young age that school and college weren’t for him. Instead, he embraced “unschooling,” which is self-directed learning based on curiosity, confidence and grit. Instead of blindly following what society and institutions say we must learn and how we should learn it, Stephens offers an alternative approach that is richer, more dynamic and geared to our unique interests.

Stephens is the author of “Hacking Your Education,” founder of, a highly sought-after speaker, and a successful investor and advisor. He and his special guest speakers will help you devise your own personal learning path, figure out your dreams and how to pursue them, learn to embrace your outsider status, and discover how to find meaning and purpose while also making a living.

In this class, you’ll learn how to:

  • Create a personal learning plan that defines what you want to learn, why you want to learn it, and how you will learn it.
  • Keep yourself motivated when you don’t have the structures of school.
  • Identify what your goals and dreams are and what you need to learn to realize them.
  • Connect with mentors and advisors who can help you on your educational journey.
  • Build a community with other “hackademics” to help you learn anything you want.
  • Create a portfolio to communicate your talents rather than a traditional resume.
  • Find a well-paying, satisfying job using subversive job search techniques.


a Creativelive Student

I'm not able to afford this class now but I saw the live view on CL and want to thank you! So many things I have experienced recently it was nice to learn that I am not about filters, time managing as innovators, taking smaller steps instead of reaching for long goals...chunking. Great course!