So now we're going to photograph men and I'm going to teach you a variety of techniques and we're going to start with the fun one first um how many people here have a ring light bring light right um there is a very inexpensive good quality bring light created by the one that I have is stellar lighting systems um and I believe they're back ordered right now I don't think you can't get them and right now but they're like two hundred dollars so super and expensive to have a light people like it because it feels like a fashion image and this is kind of my whole why do fashion flare why I did because people expect that different imagery something unique for their sessions right now I feel like it is being used maybe a little too much I'm seeing it ah lot everywhere I still use it for rappers I still for use it for individuals I don't use it for fashion as much um but I love the quality of light that glowing frontal light looks great for people's eyes it also captures kind of metallics are i...
ridescence really well um but I want to do something a little different so we're going to go over today is my use of kino flows to create this light um and I learned this letting technique from when I was in college I was able to shadow of photographer named jeff lacava and he's, a great fashion and beauty photographer photographs ralph lauren, calvin klein, a lot of big name brands and one of the lighting setups that he did is this right here, what kino flows are is if you've seen a movie done in hollywood it's been shot using some kind of close their constant fluorescent lights so that they are they don't get really hot they do get warm, but you can leave on a long time. They put out a lot of power um and they even have daylight balanced or tungsten so you can balance them with indoor light or take them outdoors and down balance them with daylight. They come in a variety of sizes, a variety of length of tubes I mean, they're just kind of studio movie, constant light I will tell you if if you don't want to buy or rent kino flows, I have met people who make their own it's constant fluorescent tubes, so if you are creative enough to be ableto get a setup where you could just power your constant tubes and set it up, you can do that. What I did here is I took what was originally, um they're kino flows and they're called four foot four banks, so what it means is therefore foot long and there's four tubes that's what that means he's actually everyone and so what I've done in this instance as I take these banks and I take the light bulbs out and I put it together so this is what a four foot four bank looks like but there's bulbs in it so you can rent or buy those I will tell you if you want to rent if you want to buy this setup including if you want the actual want those and you want the ballas and all that stuff you are looking over a thousand dollars for this set up so you can make your own you can rent there are ways to do it more inexpensively but if you're doing any video um where you're interviewing your clients were doing fusion like you guys would be covering next week having agood constant light source that has a good color temperature and doesn't flicker that's kiefer video it's really really useful and so the reason I bought these lights was a combination of doing this fashion set up and also the fact that I do for example if I have a professional athlete come in what I tell them is out sick a lavon and I'll say you know what? Let me just record a little interview of you and then what I'll do after the fact has tried to sell it to them for their website or for a promo material I already have them there they're already looked great in hair makeup and wardrobe so while I had them all dolled up, why not already just do an interview and then try to either give it to them as value added, showing them why they want want to hire me or make additional money off of it? So think of how that might apply to you. Maybe you khun do ah, constant light set up where you do an interview of the bride and groom and you play this kind of you interview game where you put it up at the reception, you have them talking about how they first fell in love. You have nice, beautiful, close up shots, I'll show you how you might light it so kino flows again four foot four banks I took the bulbs out, and if you look up on creative lives on facebook page, you can actually see me putting it together. This is not a special setup I used stands and gaffer's tape. So what I have here is I have two lanes that I well it's, not duck tape it's gaffer's tape gaffer tape on the stand here and then I gaffer tape two sets of lights down the middle of the other ones to make it take tat, so um, so these lights are the daylight balanced ones, they are non flicker and they are the ones that don't get hot so I'm going to show you what these images look like so you can get an idea of how you might use them for women it's really beautiful beauty light and then for men what I usually dio is you'll see this again when I show you the images on sunday what I usually do is I'll take the picture and I'll drag the blacks and when it does it's kind of pulls out grittiness and it just it looks really really beautiful and it always makes eyes look amazing so I'm gonna go over here and actually okay go for it so each light can be turned on and off individually and so I put this in a tick tack toe pattern um this is an instant where you want to shoot a lens that can go two point eight or wider for me because I want to make use of the fact I've narrowed up the field and I don't have anything particularly nice behind him um what I want is they want you to focus on his eyes because that's where those catch lights are really interesting um and that's where going to connect with the individual if you look at the portrait in my portfolio I have several that were taken with this lighting setup they just feel it allows you to connect with your subject this's great for portrait of men and women it's kind of has the same exact thing bring light if you like the quality bring like it's the same thing it's just a rectangle it's it's just the tick tack toe shape so what I'm going to have him dio is so I can get his eyes closer to the camera going to have him lean way way forward all right um what I'm doing since I'm shooting in this instance I'm going to shoot that suit s o four hundred at two point eight I'm on aperture priority so I'm going well see if I need to do exposure compensation but right now I'm letting I'm setting the aperture and then letting the shutter speed be adjusted by the camera based on being kind of zero exposure and then I'm actually setting my focus point to his eye so I can make sure it's perfectly and focused I'm gonna shoot it two points so that's perfect ready one two three okay and let's see how our tethers working um I love these reports particularly in black and white you should be able to see it momentarily um what's cool with these two has anyone ever seen um so for me when I popped the contrast on it I think that let me look at his eyes can you see me in the eyes just a little bit real quick I think it makes for a really really beautiful portrait um uh his you know so that it looks really, really cool um cool shapes the other thing that's really interesting is you don't have to do tick tack toe I just put it in tech tech toe because I wanted to, but what you can d'oh as you can, I set this off good, okay, so now I turn half from off let's do snake eye ok, ok, get another effect here. Um, I'm going to switch lenses and show you another thing that I do, okay? So it's just that that same idea you can get all these cool catch lights I've done x is in the eyes I've done vertical kind of cat eyes. I've done six horizontally I've done tick tack toes I mean it's, it's, whatever you want for an interesting catch light in the eye, but often howl photograph men is I'll take my one fifty macro lens of and let me just address lens hood. Um, I don't often use my lens hood in the studio you can if you want. I just I'm really quickly and picking things up and down and putting it back in my bag and I don't need it it's just kind of takes up more space, but for something like this, you would want a lens hood, because if you think about it when you're shooting through here, you have, like kicking directly back into your lens. That I mean it's it's a light coming right at you so that's why if you look at it it looks a little bit flat so it would pop the contrast and clarity and photoshopped what if you put a lens hood on your cutting down that lens flare and able tto have better contrast so I'm going to switch to this signal one fifty mackerel ins okay, all right, perfect. And I assure you I do it all the time for male portrait, so stay right there say I'm setting my focus point to be on his eye. Okay, good of a little closer. All right? And so a lot of times we'll do is we'll get really, really close and kind of shoot a half frame so here I could move in and she kind of half the face and then turned that black and white um I found that most men that I shoot really like this special intern in black and white pop the contrast, something like that, um and a lot of times one of the key things I'm looking for tonight. Okay, the question that you could you take your shirt off, please? Um, this I just want to show you the difference here so one of things you want to be aware of if I'm trying to look at his eyes the pit your eye and legs as a viewer goes to the brightest part of the photograph which in this case is that collar s o if I had a black shirt haven't wear black shirt, I don't so what I'm gonna do is just get rid of that highlight and do the same thing so I would do the same shot and ford perfect on I think it's a little closer okay and check between the two where your eye goes so that's what I'm always thinking if I can make something a little more stylized that's great and so for me I think it just end if you put the two up there and compare it where your eye goes and flip this back one more time um I some people try to use a light like this the guy personal like the one on the right better I think it's cleaner so a lot of people try to do this shot kind of a mid length or full length um it's heading in tyler's process if you guys ever seen there's these one shots were done with key nose off surfers um and if you've seen it you'll know what I'm talking about it's like they look kind of silvery and it was actually done with these kino lights it was done they did to strip side by side and it's really, really beautiful those were done mid length but for the most part I think it just ends up looking like kind of flat undetermined light if you do something that's mid length so I'm gonna have him back up just you can see I don't like the middling shot um so in general I just use this for for kind of ah kind of amid a close up shot of the sea I think I'll switch my lens real quick to twenty four seventy it's a little easier to get the length and you don't have to lean forward just stand straight like that good good perfect good so if you look when it's not close up it is just kind of a flat light but if you wanted teo you could increase the contrast and you could add a grunge texture but who wants to add like do that much effort to make a picture good so my opinion for this it's going to be beauty light um and baby light for men or women so what's that one of you like to give this try on test it out when you guys I know ugo let's go hee I can tell okay which which lends you want a close up lens or what would you like what's one fifty that's seventy two hundred years the one fifty okay all right and so I don't think particulars guys there's not much you khun dio you should can write so the focus point all right. So questions about over here for you guys using kino flows. Um, like I said, you can if you have. If you're particularly craftier than somebody who is, if you can set something up with gisele on your arm is just this is a professional grade, uh, constant fluorescent lights so I could focus there. Jones is normal light. Um, so the biggest thing you run into it if you get normal lights have to make sure they're non flicker because what happens is as you shoot, if you're shooting at maybe one one twenty fifth of a second, uh, unfocused. Oh, we have to have to switch to manual or reset your focus point. Um, but I like that's cool. Um yes. So if you get that shooting that maybe one time for the second you might actually captured between a flicker and so it will go dark or you get kind of half the frame line if you ever shot like, close ups and I put it up like a cake and a fluorescent lit room for a wedding and it was like half yellow and half regular it's the same thing it's a flickering lights, but they do sell constant daylight, non flicker lights that you can buy, you just have to bring it up correctly. I have a question from lana seven eight four who would like to know if you can do full body shots with this kind of light set up when you physically can't I just don't that's not that's not my preference I don't think it's a good quality of light although it's interesting because if you really wanted to dark meat on the black sea just carved out like on ly carve out the shadows it could be interesting I think it takes a lot of post processing so I wouldn't do it good stuff yeah somebody ask again how you made it but you already went through that I just kind of gafford it up too light stand okay so there you go and I think that's cool it switched to black and white do high contrast it's limited ish um if you want a background the late doesn't kick too far so if you want a background to show up and actually be illuminated have to have it pretty close behind your subject so this is kino flows anybody else want to take anything you're good to ready move onto the next one good okay awesome all right so have you put your shirt on and the vestas well so the next thing we're going to question you leave that background up uh we're going to do the beauty addition the two rooms yes keen nose out. All right the next thing that I want to demonstrate is uh compositing do you guys have any classes on compositing yet in the fifth oh, that looks great don't see there's a shot looks wonderful, right? Looks really good way of not I don't think we've done a full compositing class. Okay, well what I want to show you really quickly is a common set up that I do for compositing. I don't composite often what compositing is is you shoot a shot in the studio and issue slate or a background someplace else and you combine the two together um my good friend and somebody I recommend if you like this technique to check out his joel grimes um he's awesome he's a sweet guy and he's really, really talented and he's me think he's the best are among the best at compositing so sure you really basically I will definitely do this for professional athletes I have professional athletes men or women doesn't matter who it is I will shoot this basic lights set up because I know in the future I can composite it somewhere if they so choose what you're doing is you want tohave some separation from the background and this is this is general it's kind of an overview but for example, what joel might cause calls it kind of three point lighting you have three light sources we would have two lights from the back that separate the subject from the background and then one light in the front defining the quality of light so if you think of it like this um the two lights from the back are supposed to mimic the environment so maybe there is going to be if it's in an alleyway maybe it's going to be a highlight from behind of a street light or maybe you're on a beach she wanted to be not as chris was a streetlight but kind of wrapping soft light if it was an overcast sky behind that individual so you're thinking of okay looking at this scene what would work? Um the easiest way to do it is if you shoot the background first and then you light the individual to kind of fit that background more I know jule for example almost the time he just kind of has this setup of how he lights it and so you can kind of put the two together because it's kind of a consistent theme most the time what people dio for their background is they shoot something called on hd our image um h d r stands for high dynamic range which means you have detail in the shadows detail in the mid tones and details in the highlights and so it starts to look surreal because there's so much detail and comment word is kind of crunchiness the picture just has so much detailed to it and so there's shoot an individual in the studio and put those two together I will give you a demonstration of how you do this what I'll talk about on sunday if we get to this far we'll see how I do with time we'll talk about is the fact that to make it believable you need to match the light source is right that makes sense okay? He could actually be lit like that you need to match the contrast but really contrast the background but a low contrast subject that looks fake and he's matched the color if you can match those things it's not that hard to make something believable and there's of course other things like compression of lens and the angle you shot and all of those different considerations but the biggest ones are color um and the contrast in the direction of light so I'm just going to shoot kind of a basic composite set up here. All right, so what have you put those lights on? Thank you uh what I have here, what you can use for the back lights can be anything it doesn't be with like how many of you have actually seen these lights before this particular light? Um neither by I'll tell you why once that you would probably be familiar with would be stripped banks right? The long worked hand? Why said strip lights thes you're actually strip lights, not strip banks so if you look at them if you have you put around perfect it's the same concept but they're not actually the same thing so I'm actually playing with a new light today but what if you look up strip bank it's long rectangle a rectangle and they're used for those highlights on the side of the body here these strip banks it's kind of the same concept and you can close down um those two folds to make it more focused so if I want the highlight on the shoulder for chase's want the highlight on the shoulder to be really, really broad or from baxley broad I would have leave it open if I wanted to be just kind of a sliver of a highlight I can close it down it's the same idea as barn doors when I am doing a composite or shot like this, I will d'oh barn door's on either side or strip banks or I'm sure this would work the exact same way barn doors you're going to have a head and then it has kind of four leafs and then you can close them down to narrow the beam of light um and I will shoot this not just for composites but if you remember the shot of head of the girl with the basketball this is what the set up was a beaut dish with tio barn doors from behind separates them from the background yes, so are labels these raw strips so anything I'm using here strobes the only thing I used so far that was constant was the kino flows yeah, yes it's the stellar lighting system is a free how many inches? The one I usually just yeah if you're sorry to tell you this because I know you have one already but if you're going to buy one of these ring lights the bigger the better in my opinion because when it's smaller for so it's harder to shoot through with lens choice but also the bigger catch what you have in the eye it's really small it kind of creates a circle inside the pupil and then it looks weird it looks kind of like a circle in the pupil versus if it's larger you can get it to surround the pupil or surround the iris so if you're going to buy a ring light get bigger and then also if you want to do kind of mid length of folding shot you have that option if you wanted to but avoid the small ones in my opinion I don't think there is useful okay um awesome. Oh, dear. Okay problem cool. All right, so um can I am watching this modeling let off um I use modeling lights because they help me shape the light especially when I'm doing something like this I want to control my highlights so I turned off this modeling light which is giving me a preview of what the image is going to look like and I can actually look at those two highlights and see where they're hitting so I can see by looking him which you guys can't see uh but I can see by looking at him but I do like that it kind of comes across and hides his cheekbones but I don't like that I have two highlights on the nostrils couple things you could do you could move those lights back you can narrow them or another thing you can do is you can have him step forward so I take one step forward and it's just about right there I might need to bring him forward a little bit more but it's steps him out so the lights not hitting kind of surrounding him he steps out of the beam of light so it takes it off is no so now it's a little bit more in the jaw line and out of the side of the face instead of highlighting the nostrils even when you have a mane like here to overpower the face you'll still get the highlights on the nose and not my preference or you can go completely extreme and you could just like him with on ly highlights on the side of his face there's a shot that having my portfolio of a girl in a bowler cap and she's like it was used to be my portfolio it's in my book um a girl in a bowler cap we're just the sides of her jaw and her neck and her shoulders I'll let and her face is entirely in shadow and it makes for a really cool graphic image and you could definitely do that for a client where you were trying to go again in the direction of kind of graphic or pop are and have it be more of a symbol than a photo of the individual for this case I do want to keep it as a portrait, so uh let me see so what I'm looking for it's the thing is good, it looks good, so we're just looking he was asking, how are the heights? So you just want to see if I want to make sure if I want him to separate from the background, if they're low, then it won't hit the light on the top of his head and some hell of a nice cut out until the top of his head and that might not make sense of it supposed to be a street light where it needs to be from above so again, you're kind of faking with environment, I have no idea what I'm compositing him on, I will maybe I don't know if I'm hurt maybe I'll go shoot something in seattle we'll see we'll see maybe I'll sleep will make the decision um okay I'm gonna try to match these a little bit we kind of match this angle I'm just kind of turn it that way just a little bit more um yeah, I just turn the head a little bit okay and I can shoot from the front the key here is your ratios as far as how bright this front light is to those two back highlights um what's the answer for how it should be there is no answer because some shots that like for example, I'm referring back to joel because this is not my specialty I do it because clients pay me to because it's a look they want and since they're already coming to me for fashion flare images if I could grab the shot in the studio and sell another image I'm doing this to make a living s o I keep this in mind so anyway for something like this there might be a shot where it's like really strong backlight. So you want those highlights to be really, really powerful and they have a subtle front light for phil or it might be totally different where you want to settle back late so I'm just going to give this a try test this out uh and then probably adjust the ratios yes, yes um and he's going to angle that down a little bit because that's going to give a better quality of light on the face because that will as a mail when you had it kind of straightforward that flattens his features he doesn't need feet features flat and you want to carve them out especially you have nice cheeks and jaw line like that so you kind of an angle it down yes talking about my own subjects how much is tireless and you put in to we'll make or sure I hardly ever do make up unless I mean if it's a campaign for fashion then yes we dio anyway we kind of clean things up but usually for guys the majority of what we dio are what I do is going to be clothing um if it fits like it for compositing to a certain environment um but this is just something you could say someone bring a vest in a white shirt if because we're going to do something steampunk um it totally depends sometimes it's highly stylized I'm gonna have a guy that has no we'll get him a jacket with spikes and things like that so it depends on the shoe I will say for my fashion flare the majority of what I did was just really dramatic lighting with cool props or a cool location it wasn't the hair, the makeup, the wardrobe that would make it fashion flerets we'd go someplace cool and do really weird lighting and that's your jihei made a stand out okay, so look straight at me let's just test this I s o one hundred one one twenty fifth of a second at fourteen we'll see how it looks love it has such a good guesser um normally if if you are doing something like I will tell you I don't usually I use you don't meet her you know my lights really well but depending on if there's a client there if I have some shooting catalog this is unrelated to fashion floor admission catalog and that shirt has to be an exact certain color I'll use the color checker and a meter because I have to have exactly duplicated um but otherwise your fashion is what looks good what feels good? Um it's nice it's a very touchy feely form of photography. Okay, good just like that train sideways just a little good good all right, so um so you could dish it out like that and if you're looking at his face there see how the light is kind of carving out his jaw line that's good. Um I like that. No, I don't have any grids here, but if I wanted it so that I don't have a good for this, I don't think do it okay uh if I'm shooting this and I don't want kind of his stomach illuminated if you stick a grid on it'll make it so the light would only hit maybe just like blow the packs and his face instead of all the way down the body the closer that I bring the light to him it's going to make that spill even less its the same bucket so if I step him closer because coming in closer going to have to change my uh my exposure so I just brought him closer to the light that's cool. I'm going to change my exposure because I brought him close to the light um but if you if we turned off the ambulance is gonna ruin everything country not for a second oh, I have to turn off everything when you ok? But basically point was is as I bring him closer you can see like there would be less like down here just because I brought him closer to same bucket of water so take one more shot here to see if you can see I'd have to lower the beauty dish if you wanna lower it like uh maybe I could do the power to see the height a little so I brought him closer so it's going to be later okay look great and see what the shot was right there in the late and his face is many more contrast ng okay, so check he will have shadows in his eyes I would have to lower the beautician let's check the spill of the light between the two see how it doesn't hit as far as this it's the bucket I'm close and hitting him with that so kind of the bottom half of his body is much darker um if you're looking at his eyes there you could add a reflector or you can lower the bt dish just a little bit with guys sometimes I don't mind shadows in the eyes if you're going for really dark and dramatic and they're like ooh the code dramatic I look because guys love looking dramatic they do I don't know I'm gonna do I'm gonna say the same again keep the one with the shirt off I'm gonna think I'm going to try to composite with something it's easier I'm just this is me being lazy it's easier to composite when if I'm doing the contrast of his kin against the background to cut him out then kind of see the great tones of his shirt against the grey of the background I can cut it out but I'm just I'd rather make it easy on myself okay perfect crush arms I'm doing a typical guy post turn sideways a little less like great they're lean towards me a little good let's shoot unplugged um I will shoot like three of these so I have something to composite with tomorrow okay good, good yeah it's a little under but not too bad and I take one step back good and she was just a tiny but good okay and I would do one more shot I'm gonna have you turned the kitchen the bt dish way down so these are going to be things that all composite with and give you an example later of how I might do this okay I should turn it way down perfect um and tonight I'm just gonna do one where those aside highlights are really really bright so face me straightforward hands at your side give me a little bit perfect just like that so now it should be a lot of highlight from the background and not a lot of his face saying good dio good to have a little bit and so you could make a picture that's much more dramatic about the highlights s o I will composite these for you guys do you want who you want to shoot someone's gonna come to shoot this okay and so have you put that back up a little um four composites it is easiest for me generally is you want to make sure that the background or shooting against is it going to be the same color of the shirt of the same tonality of the shirt the more crisp of a definition you can have the better that's why people from movies and what not we'll shoot against green screen we're blue screen because that color and tonality blue is not going to be on the individual it all so it's going to be easy to kind of cut right out and take a look at it what is it not what it looks like the rain here no, not that I haven't regular focus okay let's give it a try it looks really blurry in here on the way oh, I might have a die actors that's right? Ok, good. Um she has said it looks blurry because I have a die after on the back so it's set for my bad eyes so it would look very um and one of the things I like is if I shoot against him white light turned on decide if I should against the white background those highlights blend in so that I can't cut it out when I shoot against a black, sometimes hair will blend in so I like shooting against a great and cutting it out green screen I just don't have a green screen laying around so that's easier for me to dio and I'll shoot somebody like that yes I noticed that the arms are more pressed up against him like this you know the further you know but is that like it's better with guys to have them less negative space so I will tell you what I would dio is he has okay if you guys in abadan shot of that carnie guy with like a really cool body shape I'm not the only one that looks like all these photos there's a really really cool shot she has that same kind of slender body s o I wouldn't turn him to the sign because it reduces and makes him look too small so I would face you kind of more straight on towards the camera and then typically a lot of times I have guys lean their tortures of big but that would make his waist look even smaller and so I don't want to make him look too top heavy so I would have him kind of stand just the way he is um for guys I did have impose one with a little bit of negative space but since I was trying to make him look bulk here it's why didn't add negative space I just let him kind of cross his arms so it's kind of based on you know the subject matter you can go more interesting if you wanted to kind of put one arm here put a hand up or like I'm really big into doing that kind of head down hand to face you do a shot like this real quick so I can you shout like this real quick all right um you know it's like super it's it's you know he's thinking you know the thinker pose right for guys, I absolutely bring tons of inspiration shots um but something like that stick him in the background um how about a pose that we think of turn sideways and put your forearm up and do that the shot that I did before with the tattoos and like I just stand on something or do I mean when you find out when you should've mailed you do shoot down okay? Do you see that question was asked about the angle for a guy I shoot up or eye level with them trying to make them look bigger for women if I'm shooting up my back much further up than it would for a guy but I hardly ever shoot down on a guy so where you are is a perfect height she doesn't have to know exactly okay just do that and put your head back towards the camera just a little bit and take two steps back so the reason I told him to take two steps back is he just leaned in towards the beauty dish and it put shadows in his eyes so I needed to back up a little bit we'll still have shadows in his eyes here. Um you could do some cool shapes so feel free to direct him for anything you want um I mean the shot before like if you want to do something cool and graphic makes england graphic shape without turn the waist look, do you think that's too much in shadow his his ways? Because he looks really there so the answer is, I guess for traditional yes, it depends like I looked that little that's kind of cool and graphic and I like the light and like I would like that black and white and I think he looks really cool if you're going for a traditional portrait there's no yet probably too much in shadow so it's kind of hard ish for me to teach them all about like I look at that hot school in graphic but it's about you know, if if you're trying to please your client what's a client going to like a swell even more yeah, I like it all the way I do too much better because it raked across his body so do one worst facing forward put your hands like this okay and shoot shoot cut it! Can you shoot like here up on this one this way or at whatever you want o and unplugged my plug you back in think cord here go cant turn this way. So shoot one more of those too many questions from anybody quick question from nell buggy with the tick tack toe the writing that we did before was have you ever used that on a couples or with two people um so if you look at one of the pictures that can't have posted yesterday on facebook uh there was a picture of me and my assistant lila um where it was the two of us together the only time I've ever used it for two of us together are two people together was two faces side by side where should half of each so I had kind of a half faces of each of those and um I think it's awesome like I've done it before with it once with twins right? That's really cool I thought it was really cool um and then another time with two teammates is to athlete teammates and news had kind of face half and half um in general I don't end up just being kind of mid length flat light but why not so I can totally do it. Awesome. All right, so uh any more questions already? Good. I have a question from digital purposes from the netherlands you have any tips on posing or lighting men with a b m I that is above average like how to make how to make very politically correct but I thought that's what? I thought that was a really nice way to put that but then they went on to say especially how to make the belly less prominent give man better posture certainly no man looks like that yes yeah you khun steampunk dress now um send him off to change okay. So it's actually not that different than what you would do for women it's just a matter of kind of the posturing of the hands and what not you still would like for example I would have a guy where instead of for a girl to make them look more slender you put the weight on the back cape and pushes it back instead of doing that you just lean the guy's shoulders forward so it's just it's the same concept except for this looks more feminine this looks more masculine um is faras lighting it's the same thing not lighting totally from the front um for example for something like this for compositing if I wanted to make this person looks more slender um instead of having to rim lights on either side that defined the body I might turn off one room light so that just kind of falls to shadow so you can actually see where the body ends and begins and so I would have maybe this side lit with a rim light here have him you know, crossing his arms you know, kind of shoulders forward or in this case it's the camera kind of shoulders forward and then just have this kind of fall to shadow um so it would be a little less kind of in your face um I'm thinking the actual lighting setup I would do in this instance does it have the room light here? I'd bring this light over around, so that if this is the camera, the lights, a little bit short light, so the shadow is facing towards the camera, so he would be here. I'd have some kind of lean towards camera, so torso looks big. Waste body looks smaller and in the back, just kind of disappears into shadows. You can't actually see the contours of the form.