What time frame between the wedding and when they're seeing him on picked taj okay here's what? I let them know four weeks is it really for weeks no it's probably two weeks I want toe I want to wow them yeah promise them something and then better that when we get to the contract do I stick to everything in my contract? Nope. They're clauses in there that protect me if they bail right where I keep the deposit because unless I re book my date however have I done this one? I'm so sorry that the wedding was called off and yeah, I know the five thousand dollar deposit but what if I do this and this? I'm talking to her father. Okay, dr megabucks doctor megabucks if what if I do this? Uh I love your daughter she's so wonderful. What if I take that five thousand dollar deposit and floated over to the maybe two, three years when she finds someone else and decides she wants to get married and I will honor your deposit three years from now. Really? Would you do that? Absolutely this after his exp...
erience of the hotel saying no way jose, you've just lost your deposit all of it done right lost deposits joe says I'm gonna go beyond the written word I'm gonna offer something else you think he's going to remember that is it really hurting me to do something like this? No because word of mouth remember my business is based on word of mouth more than anything else I've never done an advertisement ever I've never paid for advertising I have found in this business is not worth paying for advertising you just don't get the money back for the amount that this stuff cost you so word of mouth I don't know if I don't know I think I did bring it up the first day I don't have a business card I don't have a business card because what I want people to find me you really like what I'm doing she approaches me on the dance floor I have to have you at my daughter's wedding oh that's that would be lovely can I have your business card? Um you know I don't have a business card panic okay can you get a napkin write my name down for you I want them to find me because they really enjoy the chase that defining this person that they think is going to be the most amazing person and then of course when they've seen my website it's either yea or nay it's like you know, sometimes I'm not for them but advertising and pain for thousands of dollars usually my experience has been I just don't get my return on my money just don't okay actually that was really did you know that you guys witness that I was really he was actually crying? He was not faking. So then I do that. So here is one of those instances while I was over the shoulder grabbing an available light shot when the I seventy two hundred and we may just give them this shot in the lineup and that one which open it up, the color wasn't the prettiest it's not the sharpest asked me if I care. It's not faa. I'm sorry. I don't see all of his eyelashes. I'm sorry, it's a beautiful moment. That's what I'm talking about when I said to you earlier and I've been saying it over and over, it doesn't always for me. I have to be a requirement that it's f a tack sharp, and I'm not going to go in the photo shop and, oh my god, isolate the eyes and pao make him so sharp like the razor blades when the rest of the face doesn't match it. So in this instance, will I sharpen it? I don't know if the client says, you know, I wish it was a little sharper I might go in and tweak it just a hair. But I like just the fact that that was a true moment a real feeling and had I not been available for that and had I been thinking like I don't think this is high enough f stop or shutter speed I don't lost this one so what good is it if either had oh, I iook ok of fate and then bring it up and go not there anymore so during the ceremony you gonna tell him a uh we're gonna cry again for me so this was actually flash it picked up enough white I can see the flash here but more importantly and see behind this was a flash shot and I concede in his glasses, right that's actually flash and my flash is going to give enough light and kill it when it comes back that white reflected its so fastest I think a little under if you ask me I can I can clean it up but then I said but this is how normally do it I turned to flash at a forty five and I hit I think it was the pillar we're we're still working on the pillar do you remember or was it the window shades the white I don't remember now, but it went in a forty five and I got that so my question to you is what you rather have this lining or that lighting I'm thinking this I think it's a little nicer it looks more natural I try to make it look like it's natural light even though it's coming off of my flash even though it's in a church I wanted to look like natural light that's beautiful to me and I didn't ask her to pose like that I didn't well you know I moved her right I moved her a little bit and that's what I say when I d'oh you know I have my second shooter's primary shooters whatever you wanna call them do the foremost typically they're not like this they're they're what mom expects and then I'm shooting around I'm there but I'm shooting the little things the little snippets of things like that what while he's shooting the formals on dh then I come in for about two minutes okay okay okay I need you guys to relax for a second I'll move her I say put your arm on his shoulder but then I don't tell her go look at his face and smile I don't tell any of them to smile like that but they see the energy that I have in trying to create something different and they enjoy it and that's what I should really, really quickly and then I should turn around and show you that piece of paper all the way to the back all the way to the back you were gonna ask something isaiah well, I was going to say it sounds like you in your second shooter kind of a good cop back yeah, we do we do way do we do you know I said it to you before when everybody sees that he is the primary shooter and I'm just this lowly little dude with it I'm not that little bit lonely guy with the long lens skulking in the background they don't pay attention to me they really and he is the main squeeze and then I come in really and I do something energetic and then I'm out again so yes good cap, bad cop I think okay seventy two hundred and this is now with the frizzy ever so slightly that was the ugliest light in that room. Do it. There was no light. You remember that there was no light and that that's what I wanted to prove to you a little phrase see like just enough now this could get cleaned up further so this is just straight just a little color correction. If he were to take this in and make it a while photo he'd add a little more stuff to it here you just cropped in a little bit but this is all available light in pee mode with a little frizzy light on it and then across the room frese light one of the lovely students over there click but fast right little frizzy light but this is what I would be doing during the reception toaster going on my primary shooter is shooting the person giving the toast I turn around I look for expressions and you're totally not there with the guy who's toasting are you okay? But I like it. I really like it it's an available light shot from across the room and the eyes are nice and clear and sharp I think this was shot a two point eight because I was in p mode and there wasn't a lot of room in that life and I just from across the room a little bit of like that's it flash direct flash on camera this is how we are taught to do this flash on camera shoot the thing all right. What am I objecting to in this photo? The cake is forget about it, right? That cake is just right and I did focus on her but what's the flash's gonna hit first what's it going to cause shadow shadows and while I don't mind the light on her face right there it's okay and his expression that's all cool but my eye goes to this cake anything that's white okay, so then I said no, the frenzy assistant little lighting and you have that it could be even a little better in the wild photos but now what do I have? I have a little more definition in the cakes I didn't touch it he lit overhead just to give a little light on them they were backlit because that's the light that's hitting the cake behind them but I have a hair light I have nice light on her shoulders it's really beautiful I have ah highlight on his face shadow on this side I love it he came in a little bit on that one and that was that would you lighten that photo a little bit more just on the one side uh let me go back like just that go back again. Oh, this one yeah, so in a wow shot this would get cleaned cleaned up a little more for me this is distracting that was the bulb down below would you maybe yeah, that there's a few things that I would still do in here to clean it up some not a lot again that's probably a little more been yelling going on for me in here. Um I don't know if we're able to knock that down. That light was really bright on this cake, right? But I have tons of detail on this side and I kept it there and the flash couldn't she may get opened up a little more a little more light on her face just a tad but that would be it but how fast was that I've been p mode available light I just directed him give me and my assistants know where I want that light they know the rule that I have about cakes and dresses and such and there are times where maybe he couldn't do this for whatever reason let's say that's a wall I'm now bouncing my flash and sometimes what I do with that frizzy I turn it to the wall and turn it a little higher and what does it do it bounces it makes a window so instead of flash one it's continuous light and I can adjust it a ce much lina's I need on her when I look at her and it's on and it just turns swivels hits the wall comes back and becomes a window on the wall it's really cool so that's why I say I should everything an available light and once in a while my flash is available and it's no joke and we can do that now it is so easy to go max out on your isos and grab great stuff that's available without adding a whole lot of you know multiple flashes and I'm not you know when I talk about this stuff I'm not dis in any of it it the market sometimes calls for that so there's a certain segments in the country they want that up lighting they want multiple flashes there's nothing wrong with that if that's your market that's what they want, you've got to give it to him. What I'm saying to you, my market is that this is what they want they want very simple, they don't want they want me to be unobtrusive. They don't want to make this a production to where I now say hang on and there's two lights that I have going on a soft box and I am telling her how to hold the cake knife like really, you really need to know how to, you know, do what you need to do cut the cake so that's pretty much the way I do that you have questions, you guys good? Yeah. All right, so that was day two, but I love this shots. One of my favorite shots. Very simple, right? Wasn't it? And what was that like like us? It was so dark it was really dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have never taken it off of a w b I have never taken it off of there because when we first started digital, one of the things that I learned to do first is take that white card in any lighting scenario and do a custom white balance, and then I would turn and it would be a different lighting scenario and I would have green faces and I went my god, this is really not helping. So now that the tools and posts are so great that light room thing is just beyond beyond and you can tweak it there, then why not just leave it on auto white balance? And like I said that one shot of him during a ceremony that was the ugliest light underneath that thing it went to black and white and it's fine in black and white it's beautiful it's about the moment and the color is no longer distracting, so there are times where that color cannot be tweaked favourably enough. Uh, I guess you can spend a lot of time by isolating just a skin you know you can rappel assou around her and just adjust that or going to the different channels, adjusting the different colors you could do that I don't want to. I've been trying to figure out and when we when I first switched over from film to digital and started doing more digital, people would say to me because I was still shooting film the very beginning stages and I still shoot some film now, but uh they would say to me, why aren't you doing digital it's cheaper? Why is it cheaper since well, you don't have to buy film there's no processing there's no proofing really let me give you a scenario, okay, mr digital saturday you shoot the wedding sunday on your day off you're in the computer and you're downloading this stuff because you came back saturday midnight you're going to do that but sunday uh you're gonna download this stuff to your computer take your flash card reader put it into your laptop your desktop wherever you want to throw it you throw it there you may even convert from rod ajay poker maybe you shot it in j peg then on monday you continue to work and by the way you know what joe was doing when he was shooting film on sunday he was hanging out with the family having a good time, a glass of wine maybe in the evening because I was shooting film right? So joe's post production work on monday was hey, he would take his film and put in a little plastic bag go to the lab, drop it on the counter and go see you thursday that was my post work you understand? They process my film they printed it and proofed it they did the corrections I didn't do any of that so monday my digital guy is now going j peg he's playing I think by thursday's finished I know it's faster now but when they first told me that I'd be saving money I started thinking about how much time I was spending in front of the computer and did being that up and I think I was making thirty five cents an hour maybe a book maybe a buck I said now my my time is worth more than that so that scenario doesn't quite work for me that I would be saving money because I saw myself spending time in front of the computer or hiring someone to do it for me so they're in lies no excuse for me now that said today it's much easier it's faster right it's much faster teo to crank through stuff and uh my post people do it really really quickly my wife edits I read a little bit I get to look at some of the good stuff and we're done but man the days of film I miss it and I still have my still shooted I love it I still love film all right? Do we have any questions? Did you want tea? Oh yeah. Okay. All right. Uh dobbs photo from the ukraine says this is a general question what do you do to keep fresh eyes after so many weddings? Amazing question. Uh I have projects I have a couple of kids that are on the autism spectrum and a few years ago I worked on a book it took two and a half years toe put out called autism heroes uh find personal projects um invigorating and I think most of us after a few years we get, you know, a little complacent it's the same all same all how do you keep fresh? Because it's another wedding to do the same thing pay cutting first dan ceremony all that stuff you can almost rewind it in your head and just applied but because I take the approach that everyone is different I'm not as bored as those people that have a shot list in their minds that have tohave and take him as they go down that I get this shot that I do the brocade detail shot did I do the ring shot that you take all of that down? And if you do that enough times over the years yes, you get bored, but I find I do sometimes get tired. And so the way that I circumvent from, like taking that to the gig is I will work on like the autism kids that I worked on photographing thirty eight families over two years and I get reinvigorated because I find what else besides wedding is my passion in photography? Look, we all picked up this camera, we fell in love with it and a lot of people are class cross platform, if you will in terms of what they like shooting some people like, you know nature and then their landscape photography first by heart as well as weddings, but they're trying to make a living at this. Other people like going into the streets and shooting straight shooting. I suggest, find out besides weddings if that's what you're doing or shooting portrait's, what else would you like to photograph? What else really gets you going when you think about if I wish I had a camera in my hand right now and go do it. Go shoot personal projects. That's what? Absolutely refreshes me. Yeah. Thank you for that answer. Sure. Uh, s m plow ski is wondering from st cloud, minnesota. Do you show more color and black and white images in one picture and which usually sell more? Let me rephrase that. Do you show color and black and white images of one picture? Yeah. So I do it a few times. Yes, I do think that, um what I do? Like what I showed you in the when the ceremony was happening. There's a color shot and then the black and white version of it. So I give them options. And it's it's a form of educating my client. When they go on, pick taj and take a look at this, they'll see the same exact thing in color and in black and white. And so I'm letting them know listen, this could be done to any one of your photos and so you need to find out what it is which images you like in black and white which images you'd like to keep in color and we can convert those two black and white okay, so yes, I showed them and the my strong suit is black and white in this film, so we usually I will want it in my pitch as you noticed, I have a whole version of my black and whites that I shot on film first I say nothing about it. In other words, I start with the digital stuff like I was showing you guys the first day and then I lay it down and then we got these are black and whites and if they notice that there's a huge difference in quality or emotion or whatever it might be, they may not even put words to it the difference between the black and white and color and then I throw in a couple of digital block and whites there are some people that absolutely recognized the difference most don't but mr steven spielberg knows he could tell you that's from film that's from digital that's a converted black and white okay well he's very educated and he's got taste and you also also collects a lot of photographs so he knows so I showed him that and then I say and by the way if they really loved I really loved that toning you did I don't know how you okay? So you're liking my images from film do you notice a difference so then I might throw up a digital black and white and a film black and white that robert printed and if they really gravitates towards the film I say you know you may want to ask me to shoot a few rolls of the film I'll bring the third camera and shoot for five six rolls of film for you you know and might my kind of choice of toe where I might utilize that but if you like and I can bring film and I think the last three four weddings have booked in the last month I have asked and requested film and I think right now film is coming back a little bit I'm finding photographers saying I'm gonna just throw this little film point and shoot my bag and for fun I'm gonna throw one role at the wedding where they hadn't done that in years years so I think it's some levels coming back and if you ask me if you ask me this is just my taste what the difference is for me and people always say so why? You know I mean we could do this that there's film actions joe that you could do all right, here's the only way I can describe it and it's a feeling for me the difference is that I think film the images from film have sold I can't explain it any other way there's something about a film image it just has a soul too, that I think is lacking in digital and if you really break it down to technical stuff, I think there's a difference between pixels and film grain. Even if you try and mimic film grain there's still a difference could that film grain is actually from pixels it's not real film great! And then if you want to go a little further, there are imperfections in film and it seems to me that we try and perfect in digital way too much and so that's. Why I said earlier look, don't try and figure out how to create the perfect image it doesn't exist and we spend so much time in photo shop trying to create this thing you know, ah couple of years ago at w p p ay the grand award winner and photojournalism actually thank you that he was honest came out and said, I stitch three images together. It was a composite, really your image that took the grand award was a composite of three images yeah, there was no rules against it bummer see photojournalist israel that it should be a truth. It should be reality, it's not something you create in post production I got very upset about it. I took it personal when I should've pj shot it's pj if I sent it up, I tell you it's not p j and that's the way it is and I would never enter a non pj shot in photojournalism because in photojournalism it is truth and to be able to do that in post production on the one hand that's awesome that we can do that it's awesome and that's what it is now for us people that have all these photo shop tools all these post production tools at their disposal and all these amazing cameras with these high iess I mean, did you see about anything years ago? When I started seventeen years ago, you needed an education to be a photographer. You had to go to college, you have to take some courses in photography is what you needed to learn was loading the film how to process it howto print from it it was all your gig, you know not yes, you could take it to the lab but you went to school to learn the craft and now it's, just like I get a lot of questions say, give me the silver bullet, give me something now today that I could make work tomorrow. Cool. There might be kernels of things that I can give you, but this is still a craft and it's still going to require you to practice over and over and over to get good at some of these things and it's a great path to be on. Great. All right, coming down off the soapbox. Stay, please stay on. Soapbox asked me and you're talking about, like, photographers using a lot of photoshopping. Yes, but I'm finding is that clients are expecting yeah. So how do you mean? You probably don't deal with that. But do you have it? So I do deal with okay? Yeah. So I mean, like, cause I had clients all the time that will say, oh, you shop worker, can you take away my wrinkles? You take away ten pounds or whatever. So, like, how would you suggest dealing with customers who are expecting? Yeah, so much, first and foremost, right? Remember, when I do my pitch, I'm also explaining to him how much I really doing post, right? So I will continue to speak and let them know, you know, I'm not the guy that's going to do a whole lot of photo shop, so I hope that's okay and it's a matter of fact, the images that you see here really don't have a lot of photoshopping them. This is pretty much what you're gonna get for me right here. So then I get the avid groom who is first and foremost in love with my photos not so much the photo shop, but then he'll say, can I get the files from you so that I could photoshopped them? Oh yeah, you could buy the files for me? Yeah, no, no, I have no problem with that at all, so I'll let them with the photo shop work on it, but they only get the files after I've done the album. I do not sell my files before that you have to put an album three, because if my name goes on that work, I need that book to have my name on it right now you do whatever you want, so the files I think in my contract or seven hundred fifty bucks, you get the files, it's yours all yours, you get j pegs, I'll give you that, but they're small, they're like three and a half by five to four by six you're not gonna do a lot with those but the album's first and then I sell you the raw files I sell you a raw files because in this case where he is pretty good at photo shop and he is a total photo geek and he wants to have his hand in it and first he wants me to do and I'm not going to do it he can absolutely and it makes him thrilled to death I could oh yeah give me the roz cool that's all good different different prices for the raw files versus the depict yes for me for me is so raw file seven fifteen typically j pegs that air cleaned up the ones that I've worked on fifteen hundred bucks so all you know one hundred fifty choices that they've had that go into the album they can have those they've been worked on little photo shop a lot of light room fifteen hundred dollars there's yours I know this is gonna bring on a whole whole discussion in a minute I just want already cold just give you two thousand now so this is edited I don't give the unedited parts to anybody roz that's why I'm saying all of this is edited right so from my four thousand they're seeing seven or eight hundred that's all they're getting seven eight hundred that's it I do not show the others here's what happens so you give him the others and let's just say there's some really ugly photos that's why they were rejected right? There's I've got grandma with a fork halfway in your mouth one eye closed and the groom sees this and goes that's a shetty photo well yeah that's why it's not in there they sometimes like the hang on that they like to see the bad images and then go man you didn't do such a good job did you really? But those eight hundred while the eight hundred all son gets swept aside and the focus is on the one shot went grandma in the fork they'll never see those I won't show those I won't give him those they get eight hundred ross that I liked the j pegs that you sell for fifteen hundred dollars uh are those the form essex no there's air parrots sirens lo rez that I give it to him I give him the low rescue can have low risk you want lo rest here's low risk I want to throw him on your screen it's ok they're small they're kilobytes yeah they're not big on laura's watermarked no no what do I pitch in the beginning when I do one ups and I tell a story your prints you they all come back to me to have me print my stuff do I care that from these small j pegs grandma's gonna get ten four by sixes or three three and a half by no because I actually don't want my client to call me for three three and a half by fives I really don't you know I'd rather hear you go they're yours if you want to print him costco I don't care where we want to do with us it's fine by me album is first remember albums first the first experience they have with the images online online only okay album this first after that online album you want to order a print picked taj will give you one they buy from picked taj I get congratulations. Your clients just made it purchase. I go. And most of the time it's a few hundred bucks there's been times where I've had thirty five hundred dollars in a safe thank you picked taj. No, they cannot purchase the file's principal your album. Yeah, okay. What happens with natasha? Color corrected. That's it you know, so these are just straight up. And then, like I said, they compare that to on pick tosh, my favorite folder, uh, that's what they want in their books? Yes, ma'am, I torben is actually wondering about picked taj if you could distinguish the contrast between picked taj and other such a smug mug or is an folio. Yeah, I know all about the others in terms of their names. I have never left, and I'm just being straight up and honest with you guys I have never left picked on, because pick taj while in the beginning stages, they had a lot of growing pains and there were some errors made in terms of judgments as far as I was concerned, and there were a lot of us upset with what picked taj did this was a few years ago, and then this beautiful man, jim collins, came into being the ceo, and he just, uh, took this company and turn it around. They are my complete back in. I don't know anything about zen vole leo. I heard they're good. I know nothing about smugmug I hear they're fantastic for people it's just right now pick taj works for me, and my thing is, if it isn't broken, I'm not going to try and fix it, so I am very loyal that way, so it's not broken, I'm not going to fix it if it's working for me great, they are completely my back and they do everything for me. The selling of it, the creating, sometimes of layout for me to look at for clients to look at, graph, he will do the same thing for me. I usually put in order from one to one hundred fifty the sequence of events than I have graphic design the album, you know, and and granted your money and my studio is brilliant. She sits with the client she makes elections with declines she has a rough idea so right now there's a sometimes your body lays out the album with decline sometimes graff he does it but I delegate all isjust others so I'm sure there are good points that the people that are aren't smart mark have about smoking because they love them same thing with zen folio I happen to like pick taj and I just gave you the reasons why their brilliant should take a couple more questions okay this question is going to shift gears a little bit okay this is from de frame from dublin uh actually from emerald isle and different asked could joe tell us a bit more about establishing relationships with wedding planners and does he give referral fees to them and other suppliers that recommend him wow that's a nice question I like it because that's another uh joe stepping up on soapbox ready all right it is customary in l a and a lot of places where uh vendors will give um a kickback feet to coordinators planners whatever you wanna call them also hotels by the way sometimes to be on the preferred vendor list uh you give a kick back feet to the coordinator the catering director at the hotel so that when a client because who they see first they try and make sure that venues available so that's one of the first places they go to locking the date on the venue? What a great opportunity to have your stuff shown at that time, but ah lot of the high end places in los angeles required the vendors to pay a fee. So guess what? I'm not on any vendor referral list because I don't do that. Uh, same goes true with most of the coordinators I work where I don't ask for one, I have worked with people that have needed it, demanding it and wanting the percentage and it's typically ten percent I don't do it, I don't give ten percent I don't take ten percent because I refer videographers sometimes the bride sees my work and is that the most important thing for her is photography. I recommend coordinators I never asked for money, I recommend them because they're good I liked them, declined would like them and those of the right reasons. A lot of times you're on that preferred list because you have the highest package, so that ten percent of your eight grand eight hundred dollars is more than the photographer was charging four thousand four hundred dollars, but there just is good, but, uh, person collecting that ten percent feet will always refer the one for eight grand because it nets in the higher amount of money, I totally disagree with that practice because they also make money off the client but, hey, you know, I can't I can't strongarm anybody into it's just I don't play that game I refused to do it has hurt me. There are people that don't recommend me or yeah, and there are times where I walk into this venue that where I'm not on the list on the catering person sees me, goes it's bee sink because they just lost money. Sorry, it says a lot about your company, too, when you, uh, refer certain vendors who you trust to write because you want it, you know, it all goes back to your brand and who you are. Yeah, I recommend videographers that I worked really well with that that are respectful, that I am of the client in their space and respectful of me and how I work, I respect them and how they work and and what a client ultimately want us a nice, cohesive group, and usually they go to the coordinator for that. But if the coordinator sends out people based on referral fees that have to do with high end packages that you can collect from in us wrong it's, just more. There is another question on the internet from georgie pasta shop in russia, um, he's wondering do use polar filters when shooting on a sunny day outside polarise your forces awesome yeah uh thanks no, I don't put any glass on the front of my lens is I don't know you probably miss the first day but I while they are probably beneficial to certain degrees uh a polarizing filter is for benefit and you know, darkening and deepening the blue and the skies and they're at times beautiful you lose quite a bit of stops, you know, because of polarising filters pretty heavily it's thick in terms of them allowing the amount of light and I need speed on dso a polarizing filter wouldn't do me much good uh and if you're using filters to protect the lens that's the wrong reason to use filters you shouldn't have to put a cheap piece of glass in front of a beautiful piece of glass ok, I have another question that's going to probably lead right to the frizzy but I'm goingto ask cemil bonsall from new jersey my question in particular to indian weddings they have a lot of colors, especially reds and yellows in their weddings and they're always at night so there's almost no natural light could you suggest how I should cover this? Um no natural light yeah so you know what you could do? I would use the frizzy which is what I have right? And while the phrase it comes with tungsten uh if you can convert that to daylight there are also led lights which are more daylight balanced even though they're a little more towards the blue range for me so it's a little a cooler of ah light spectrum there's ways to actually add, you know, light that's more daylight balance so that you can get the true colors that's there I mean, is that the only thing I can suggest I have run into that situation before, especially with indian weddings? Most of my indian weddings because I'm in california are outside and in the sun just nice and sometimes not so nice because it's in the sun but, um yeah, if you know you sometimes have to bring your own lighting in terms of trying to get the balance going. And often there is mixed lighting scenario where they have fluorescent with johnston with incandescent all at the same time and it's a nightmare. So uh, while I appreciate the need to have to keep the integrity of the colors because it's so colorful there's times where I even switch over and make those black and white so a cz beautiful as those colors are, I make him black and white and maybe I throw a c p a tone on it's something like that and it's still stunning question from nick chantelle jo when you are as good as you are and people want you as much as they d'oh why do you give in to the mentality that exists today that we have to give away or even sell the images? Help me understand this. I believe that is what is ruining our profession, okay? So when you say give away or sell the images, basically you're selling the images when you've given album a cz well, I try not to sell slide shows, I don't do slide shows it's not one of my selling points, but it's much like the negatives right when I started and this was about negatives I allowed to client to buy the negatives. I first and foremost for me, my client's rights are very, very important, and their privacy is as well. Since they have paid me and paid me a good deal of money, I feel that, um, they should have the rightto own the images now, and we'll talk about this and probably after a break, or maybe even before there's a difference in owning that image and having the copyright to huge difference. I will always own the copyright to the images, so I may sell them the raw data, whether it's a negative aura, raw file but I own the copyright that will always be my copyright, and they can't do. Everything with it that they think they can and its state. So in my contract, they're allowed to make prints for themselves, if that's what they wish but let's, just say they decided that they're starting a business, and they decided that this photo that I took is going to be the shot on their new website for their business, and I can't do that unless you run it by me first and we gotta talk money, so the copyright always remains with me. The intellectual property is mine, and the thing is, is that my clients do not get these files until the album's air done. What are the chances after the albums are done? Parents books their book, some of the prince they've had me make that they'll come back to me two years from now and say, you know what? I think I want to revisit my images, and I think I wanna have another book maid or I think I want to make a print I don't ever hear from clients in that way after I have given them the album. So at this point, I'm saying, you know, if this for you, the client is peace of mind that you have the raw files for safekeeping, because in my contract, it says after two years I could get rid of them. If this is peace of mind, I'll sell you the raw files. I'm fine with that. You can have it. I will still have a copy as well. But I will always maintain the copyright on always. So I think that's a fair thing to do. Copyright u only images it's your wedding. I'm okay with that, but you don't get him until after the book has done great. Thank you. So, joe, you had talked about doing film using film and digital for wedding. So hillary nine asked what part of the wedding event you say for the film, the portrait's, the reception and here it is if I only shoot at the wedding for five rolls of film, what I tend to do is kind of overlap my digital stuff. So bride getting ready, there might be a couple three, four frames that I might shoot most of its digital, but then I see something I go oh, my gosh and I grab my film. Cameron, grab a shot and put it down. I will not shoot that in digital. So once I've nailed that particular moment, it's done, I'm on to something else. I grab my digital camera, so what happens is I have to digital cameras on me, my assistant holds the film camera with the lens on it what that I requested and so the ceremony often I will do mohr of the ceremony in film looking over the shoulder getting the expressions that you saw earlier on this because robert cavallo who prince my work he's just a master printer this guy's so incredible and nothing more powerful than to see the bride's face and having a tear rolling down her face and having robert printed vignette it and adding a c p a tone to it and just do this thing by hand this is this is so beautiful so I tend to focus sometimes my film stuff on that aj's getting ready a couple of the portrait of the bride and groom and then the ceremony and then when I go wide and step back because it's usually ah lot of people there's color the hope o or the ornate you know all the all the beautiful flowers that air there that's digital so I'm back to my digital camera when I do that all right uh richard q from holland richard um my whole hijo I sometimes get the idea while shooting you zoom too much into an image with small bits of arms dropping out of frames et cetera is that a style or just that it's all about the emotion side of it and how do you determine what angle is the right one to shoot from in situations where you only have one chance I shoot it right there. If I have one chance, I shoot if if an arm gets cropped out because I haven't had a chance to actually compose it properly, you remember that these things they're split second moments, and so I'm willing to risk that it's not gonna be a perfect photo, shall we go there again? It's it's about the moment, right? And so there are images that I have in my portfolio that aren't necessarily like if I enter in competition will get booted out there's one in particular of the bride and groom dancing that totally just bombed and competition because they said it was soft and the bride cried when she saw and that to me is a hundred that's the perfect that's, a grand award and it got a seventy at w p p I and I couldn't. Why? And the judges and wild soft joe, what do you want? Have sixty four? Well, no, you know that's that's out of focus, man, and I said there is one hair on her head that sharp, I promise you, but the point being in that I had a split second to nail this shot, it isn't perfect, I wasn't expecting you to be perfect, but what was perfect with my bride's reaction to it? She wept, that's all I care about you so I'm willing to risk, you know, I've been saying that for three days. Now, I'm willing to risk the fact that I'm not thinking about trying to create this thing that's supposed to be perfect. So if if I go down that road and I see this thing, and also in my mind, clicks and now I know you. But you know, you got to move over a little bit because I think he's kind of like in the way. While you don't have all of her arm or shoulder open it's too late, you just can't it's their fleeting moments again. I can get moments. I want the one in between the moments that's, absolutely perfect, and I'm talking about the moment, not the photo. That's, what I want.