Interview with Hair and Make-Up Artists
I'm going to introduce you guys to my staff. I interviewed them for a little interview in new york created I was nice enough to come to my studio so we're gonna meet them so I'm gonna take a few minutes and introduce you to diana and tony hey guys, I'm here with my makeup artist slash assistant diana hey uh uh diana, I have some questions story we've never really done this before. This is kind of formal for us. We're usually kind of like just lounging around the studio but I have a couple of questions. Do you remember how I found you as a makeup artist? Yes best day ever tell us a story actually a girlfriend of mine is getting married and she went to have pictures taken by gen and instead of going elsewhere to get her makeup done she said, can you come over do my make up this and that? So I did and when she got too gentle house she was actually paranoid that her makeup might have been like a little too old to, like dress iq and generous like no it's perfect. Give me her number so that'...
s how that happened and I spoke to gen and here I am I'm like a buttery seventeen sixteen now two thousand eight yeah yeah about six years in a row yeah, yeah she's still here fascinating you for so long. Uh, it's really great because I know a lot of people ask like how do I find a makeup artist? Where do I go? How can I find somebody that I trust and with diana it was a really organic fine for me I always before I had a full time makeup artist I would always look att people's makeup when they came in and when they had great makeup I would always ask for the makeup artist number like I did with diana and it was a really great match for me because first of all our personalities click and I trust diana and you know, one of things I love the most about you is that I give you feedback and I can say to her, you know, then I don't like that lipstick color or oh my god, you killed it today and there's never any tension between us it's not ever like what do you know you're just the photographer you know it's like she takes my advice I take heard by trust to do my own makeup um but you know, we have a really good grip poor together and I trust her thea other thing is that I really love about you is that you take it seriously I mean it's it's, true she's always on time um I never have a problem with her with any of my client she's always positive and happy even if I know she's having a bad day she comes in with a smile on her face and these are the things that you want to look for in makeup artists and hairdressers you really want to make sure that they always put their best foot forward because like it or not, they are a representation of you and your business. I want to talk to you a little bit about our clients and how you decide what looks good on them. I mean, I do give a little bit of guidance, I guess we'll make some mood boards and I'll talk to the client about what their comfort level is, but at the end of the day, I really leave it up to diana. So tell me a little bit about how you know what's gonna look good on a client a lot has to do with their I can't think of the word coloring yes, if you like, I can, but I'm trying to think of their yeah like the pigments in their face and stuff like that? Yes, there calorie um, you know, if you're working with somebody that's very fair skins, then teo go super dramatic on somebody like that even if they wear a lot of makeup, it's I feel like it's it looks speak it's not going to translate well it's going to make them look over the top and something that it's really not like you want this to be beautiful and sexy and you want everyone to look glamorous but at the same time you don't want them to look like they literally just fell out of like a drag queen issue type of you know like you want them to look more natural so it's somebody that's like blondes or fair like depending on what they're wearing might influence it if they have light eyes if they have dark eyes, dark hair you know it's easier to maybe go a little bit darker they have like, more like an ethnic look, you know, stuff like that so it's really based on what they're wearing and also what they're comfortable with because if somebody walks in and I'm looking at them and I'm like, oh my god, we could do a red lip on you we could go really bold and there nervous and not okay with it then we have to take that into consideration because their shoes you know we want them to be comfortable and them to be happy so as long as the client's comfortable with something, we just go for it but definitely feed off of gen which she's looking for and also what the client is going to be comfortable with yeah, and I think I I usually really start with giving you some feedback on their personality because I usually get to know the client more than my staff does so I might say to diana haydee she's really you know she loves makeup and she's really open for anything or I might say to her um you know she's really more of a natural girl she wants something a little bit lighter let's just be careful I don't want to go to dark on her and we do ask the clients a lot of questions do you normally wear eyeliner? How you know, and I do also tell clients and I think that you we have discussed it's also about bringing their own lip color if they want to do something like that if they're comfortable with that and and that's great about diana too because she's open to that stuff um one question I did want to ask you that you mentioned like if the client is comfortable with something, you'll do it what happens when a client is not happy and I'm not saying that happens all the time but there are moments where a client might say, oh my god, it doesn't look like me or I don't know if I like this lipstick or this is not how I normally wear my eyeliner how do you feel and how do you handle that when that happens? I I always feel that if somebody like my job, I have a style that not everybody goes with but at the same time if something I like somebody else may not like, so if I do somebody's face up and they're completely done and then they look at it and they're like this is too bright, I could care less as far as changing their look color if they want me to tone down the eye shadow, I really don't care because I want them to be happened because it's representation also of the fact of my personality, you know, like I want people to see that they need to be happy and, you know, and be comfortable in their own skin I don't want somebody to say, oh, well, I went to janet, I got mamie done, but the makeup artist would communicate with me or, you know, was in into my suggestions and that it was one way or no way, you know, like so whatever they want, you know, I really could care less like I want them to be happening or if I put a little color on that maybe isn't gonna translate well into camera and you have a different suggestion if they're cool with it, then yeah, let's do it, you know, I just want them to be happy with the final product so that brings up a good question actually aspires makeup for camera and make up for every day I often tell the clients you know when they look at themselves and might say, oh my god it's kind of a lot and we always tell them it's sort of fades and camera but do you do different makeup for camera than you do for let's say a wedding or apart maybe a wedding's about example because you tend to overdo makeup for weddings to a little bit so it stays all day but if if somebody came to instead I'm going to a party tonight on anniversary party can you do my makeup is the make up different than it is for camera? Yeah, I think a little bit because you know if they just want like a subtle look, even subtle with boudoir it's not too subtle like you still have to, like bump it up a notch, you know? Somebody may say I want natural, so we'll do natural earth tone colors, stuff like that, but at the same time we we will we'll just bump it up because otherwise it's really not going to show up in the type of photos ginny taking, you know and the lighting or whatever it is make up looks different in different lighting, natural light versus, you know, camera lighting yellow lighting whatever the lighting's gonna be it always looks different so depending on where they're going, what type of occasion? Yeah, I mean definitely I tend to go a little bit more because natural in boudoir is still not natural right like it's? No. So do you have any tips that you can give other photographers out there to communicate with their makeup artists about things that you really like like, for example, we really like to strip single ashes here, not strip lashes I don't like the way strip lashes look, when a girl closes her eyes, I think they look like those baby dolls that close their eyes every time. Now I'm not saying it doesn't work at all, but for me it doesn't I find that it reflects the light a little bit and it's a little artificial looking, so I know you like to use the single ashes. Is there any other tip that you khun give about what to look for in a makeup artist or makeup tips or anything that you can tell other photographers that would help them out? I think that the communication's key I mean, as soon as I met jen, I think the first time we ever spoke, you were like outing about running all over the place and you were like, I can't really talk really hung up the phone and like I was like okay I had never met before but also all right and then the next time we spoke it was like we hit it off you've become like more like a sister you know we're gonna have our open room and now I know what I mean it's like I'll call general like oh my god I shouldn't be talking about this but like I have to talk to you like you know and when you have that relationship and you know that like no matter what you can go to them and speak to them like you have to be comfortable so when jen will tell me like oh you know maybe fix this fix that like I don't take offense to it like I feel like you can't like you have to take it where it's coming from and now she's a professional she knows what she likes and you have to be confident in your job also to be able to take the criticism I think that's a big thing is that makeup artist should always be comfortable and you know know their job but at the same time be able to handle the criticism that their clients or their boss may have certain changes and just go with the flow you know I feel like it's very easy like breezy like we just come in do your thing and have a good time it's not like a strict you know uh atmosphere where I'm like oh, my god. Okay, you know, is this gonna be okay? Like you just have to be comfortable and be able to communicate. So speaking of being comfortable with each other, diana also is my assistant. And we decided that together that she would help me out with the other aspects of the business because I trust her so much. And because she had time to do it, I've taken on another aspect. Also, she's helped me with a lot of other things. So that's something to think about. Also, if you have staff that maybe you want to give more work, tio or needs more work too. Stay with you. You confined, maybe some other jobs for them. Also. I know a few people. I'd do this in the industry and it's a great idea. And I do trust diana. Like I said, I do shoot here, but I do all my other work from home. So she comes to my house. She has a relationship with my children and my dog. And you know, this is that this is the report that we have. So I'm gonna ask you awkward questions. You ready? But I want an honest answer. But I want an honest answer you could tell everyone how crazy um what is it? What is it like to work with mei how how is it to work with me? And I know compared to your other boring desk jobs. It's awesome, obviously, but I mean, on a personal level it you know, because I think people out there there's a separation between, like, who jen is is a photographer and it's a person. So what is it really like to work with me sponsoring a completely spontaneous jen works incredibly well under pressure I mean, she could say, oh, my god, I got a call from somebody today and I have to do this in like, an hour and I'm like, okay, you'll wait until five minutes before you have to do it and it'll be perfect she always hits it out of the park like I envy you and I told you this before, like no matter what she sets her mind to, she, like, gets done, but in a typical day, like whether it be in the office or be in the house, I mean, we're just hanging around like chanting, but we're getting our work done and she's very easy going like honestly, what you're seeing on camera the way she's talking the way she's laughing and joking around is how you are all the time like it's completely normal for you to you know like your did you are you like it really is but it's fun and yes it was like a nine to five desk job some people love it some people can't stand it you know they're like punching a clock they have to clock in and this and that and staring at the clock can't wait to go home on the assistant side when doing client work and stuff like that in the office on the computer it still doesn't feel like that like I'm sitting at a desk was sitting behind computer but I'm sitting with jen so it was never one of those things like oh god it's lunchtime all right like checking my watch like when can I go home? It was always like I don't want to leave um I actually had a daughter two years ago and when I was leaving but my last working day that it was right before the holidays were breaking I started crying because unlike I don't want to leave just like this isn't our last day working together but I'm like but it's going to be different like I swore it was gonna be the same that we would always be able to like be together every like all the time obviously it is different anyone would know you know life changes like that but I think I was in denial because of our relationship like it's hanging out with like good friends and the work part just comes along with it like it's just fun I appreciate you taking time to talk to me today um do you have any ideas what you're going to do with amanda today I think we'll just play up her natural beauty you know she's got amazing eyes she's got great features um her hair colors awesome yeah so I think we'll keep it like natural but we'll bump it up a little bit so that her eyes pat but she's just she's like naturally gorgeous it's gonna be really excited to see what we're gonna do there thank you so much and you know I love you teo hey guys I'm here with tony tony is my beloved hairdresser um she comes for every single shoot that we do here and welcome I get yeah thanks so twenty tell me a little bit about um well how long have you been doing here for I've been doing here for ten years which is weird because she's like twelve twenty eight uh look eighteen who has the best hair which I always think it's amazing that I am to it it's awesome yeah um and we've been working together for about three years now um do you remember how I found you we're trying to figure it out I think that it was just some kind of referral that came along. Yeah industry professionals and yeah, get passed around and you needed a hair stylist and I was available yes, so I think we made the connection that I found her through another hair, just our makeup artist that I knew through another photographer on this brings up a good point because I found tony a completely different way than I found diana so asking other industry professionals who's reliable to work with is interesting. Sometimes you get some honest answers, and sometimes people don't want to tell you who they're team is and who they use because they feel like it's competition. So luckily for me, I didn't have that problem this time around, but I have experienced that before, for sure eso it's really important, you guys, I talk about this a lot to have a couple of really close photographer friends, people that you can trust and that you can get referrals from and I've referred you to other photographers uh, you know, so I trust tony I know she's not gonna go behind my back and you anything terrible to may? So, uh, I'm comfortable saying to her here's other photographers that want to work with you if you want to work with them, I also trust these photographers they're good to work with so that's another way that you confined hair and makeup artists and yeah, so we still haven't made the final connection but it was definitely through like I said, I'd make a partisan a photographer we're just not sure what you want just tell me a little bit about working here versus I know you do some salon where jail and you do a lot of freelance for teo so tell me what it's like to work here versus working on your own how is it different you have to prepare differently or you tell me a little bit about that? Well we have our bagful of magic extensions we can throw into people's hair they have fine hair or need just like it well extra baba booms we definitely bring those here every single time not everybody gets those on dh it's just it's fun it's a different vibe to be working behind the scenes and be glam ing people up for their boudoir shoot sometimes they come in they have little insecurities you know where they're doing it for, you know some reason whether it's themselves or whether it's a gift are whatever it is and you know it's just really fun to be a part of that process if they come in with no makeup in their hair is just on done and there's no mirror for them to look in along the way so they really have no idea what's going on and we just kind of you know, glam them off, and then they look in the mirror and they're like, well, most of the time, I love it may feel confident, just like they're shining fun to things you mentioned I want to ask you about. I'm telling you so I can remember one is the extensions and the second is the mirror, yeah, thie extensions. How do you decide when a client needs extensions? Because you don't always put extensions and for length sometimes it's for body? So tell me about that. Well, I have really thick hair, so it all starts usually when people look at me and he told me if they want their hair to look somewhere to mine and they're ponytail is very fine or very thin, and you know it most of the time, you just need to add that little bit of extra hair, and I think in the photos that makes a difference, especially if you're doing lashes from makeup because if you have your eyes popping open, that they're kind of like extensions for their lash extensions is what they are. So I feel like you do lash extensions, and they need a little extra oomph in their hair than you're popping a little hair extension and then everything's valid. Yeah, so the second question I wanted to ask you about the mirror, we don't show our clients, but they look like as they're getting ready, is this a benefit to you? Or is it bad for you? I think it's a benefit because sometimes during the process people get very concerned with, like the step by step, and they're not really, really getting with the whole and result is going to pay. Yeah, so I think that not having the mirrors help fall and then if they look in the mirror and they decided that something needs to be tweaked or their, they would feel more comfortable, you know, if they're part went the other way or whatever it is that's an easy adjustment to make and having somebody nit pick like your step by step this piece, that piece it's like yes, but time well, a sudden done there will be happy. So what happens if they're not happy? I mean, like I said before with diana and makeup, sometimes a client will say, oh, I'm not used to this is not what I like to curly or it's too flat or whatever it might be. Yeah, so what happens when a client tells you that how how does it make you feel and how do you handle it? I think that it kind of comes with the territory because, you know, this is the first time that you're meeting people, so you want them not to look a completely different version of themselves adjustable? Oh, more glammed up version of what they might, you know, look like on a day to day basis. So, you know, sometimes I think the consultation is really important pictures help to see, you know what? Look they're going for and even what they look like on a normal basis, you make sure that their hair's always straight and then you're going to do it currently it's not to carly. Maybe they just need a little bend with some body or something. So, you know, in the event that something needs to be changed. Usually if you do a good consultation before, you don't need to really drastically change something at the end, so well, minor things need to be tweaked. It's usually an easy fix. So you brought up a good point about consultations and pictures. We make mood boards for our clients. Do you find that that helps you? Absolutely. Yeah. So tell me about that a little bit as faras. What does it help you with? Is it is it helping you for style, is it helping you for volume? It's helping kind of like all around and again like that helps where the extensions come into play, where if somebody finds picture and somebody's got big, sexy hair, but they don't, then you can at least tell them, you know, beforehand, even if they have their own extensions to bring them because they might actually hair color perfect, or maybe they want some for length and not just body um, so I think that the picture is just kind of really are a great guideline. One of the questions I wanted to ask you is about communication with me and with the client, we have a very good relationship also, and that, again is really important for me to have in my studio to make my clients feel comfortable. I have to provide a come, terrible environment for them so I could never work with somebody I wasn't comfortable with, and that has happened before, and I have, you know, not work to some people will talk about that in a minute, but I wanted to ask you a little bit about collaborating with me as far as my ideas. I mean, we've done some shoots where we kind of just go crazy with hair just, you know, I'm thinking about sort of anna lisa in brooklyn when we had that crazy kind of crazy here, so how how important is it for you to decide what you're gonna do creatively for what the photographer wants and to collaborate with the photographer? I think that again photos help when we do you know, mood boards or even just like inspiration boards or inspiration photos definitely seen close before and also consulting with the make up artist to see what they have in mind it really is like a uniform thing of all the creative minds come together, you know? So um where do you go for your inspiration? Like if I say to you twenty we're going to do a shoot on dh I want it to be based on I'm making something up I don't know angels you know where would you go for inspiration for something like that? Um internet really pin tries to go just kind of clicking around looking toe like a theory a ll looks for, you know something more angelico are you they want something really hot? Then we go to generations that we look at all the shoots and come combine what you know what's good from different shoots and just I think that half of the fun is kind of coming up with it yourself like that is you go along um but I'm just a huge fan of photos I feel like, you know you can really find things even just being in new york if you go walk around the streets whether you're in long island city, you're you're going to manhattan or brooklyn there's so much going on there so many different people that look different ways and there's windows and you know things that you could look in there's really inspiration everywhere in the cities that you know, that kind of makes it easy when you're from city something like that. One of the things I keep mentioning is my relationship with diana and tony and how easy going it is and how we have such a good time together we've talked about before working in a salon and the salon mentality it's a salon, khun b ah fun place it could be therapy, but it can also sometimes be intimidating and kind of bitchy to be just a lot of people are talking behind your back or oh my god, did you see this or judgmental and that's something I really want to keep out of my studio? It's part of the reason I've had to let go of some hairdressers and makeup artist prior to diana and tony because they did have a little bit of that salon mentality. So tell me about that because I know you do work in a slot which I happened to go to coincidentally, we didn't even know that it happens to be a great place, but I know you've worked another sir long before that we're not as positive and environment how do you keep that out of this situation? I think it all has to do with ego and you just kind of have to leave it at the door and you have to humble yourself and go in and it really is a team effort to get everybody to collaborate together there is no oh you know I'm harris eyes I've been doing this for ten years so I know everything that you have to be open to suggestion open teo you know, just working with people and you can't come in and say, well, you know, I know everything and I'm the best of the best even though I do feel that I am one of the best of best but I mean, you know you're not coming in here too make anybody's life hard this is really good experience it's empowering and I think that's like that for everybody even for us, you know, because when you're giving somebody the boost of confidence like that to me that's amazing it's very rewarding filling, sailing you know, this is like a housewife, you know hasn't done her hair makeup since her wedding ten years ago twenty years ago and they come in and you get them all done up in there how you have my husband hasn't seen you like this in so long and they're just shining on dh that's a lot of fun yeah I always say that boudoir photography heals me as I feel my client and it's similar to what you're saying now doing their hair and having them get their makeup done feeling a certain way makes you feel a certain way so I love that and I do think that there is a difference between ego and confidence you are confident what you do but you do not have an ego and I love that about you it's there's never a moment where tony ever says to me like you said no this is the way it's gotta be sorry andi we've had conversations or you know you put a little more curl can you put a little volume can you take it down you know and I always say tony has a hard job because she always makes the hair perfect and the second she leaves I ruined thing I do is have the client flip upside down and shake it out yeah but she's great she's a perfectionist she wants it right and you know this is actually a good point about me shaking it out and moving her hair and touching their hair that's not normal like you know it's if somebody came to you for a party and do my hair not touching it nobody's really touching you do anything different to their hair in this situation than you would in another situation where they're not going to get touched all the time, maybe use a little west product less of, like a really sticky super hold hairspray where they can, you know, something that's, workable russia ball so you can put your fingers through it and you're not sticking their not sticky and it's not just plastered to their head, and so, you know, if you put the fan on them or you want them to flip and move around a little bit, it still looks natural. It doesn't look like pasted, like just a wig on their head, but they can't move can't touch, so you want them to feel like a natural right? So there's that there's that mix between having it look natural and then holding for the few hours that we really wanted to hold, which also is a different scenario because she doesn't it's not a wedding, the hair doesn't have to last for ten hours, it only really has to last for one to two hours to make sure it looks really the way we wanted to look. So I guess it that also is a decision that you made. Yeah, I mean, most of the time, I'm sure you'll say when we will call it a set, so he said everybody, so when I called the hair, we pin it so it's c standing in that cheap so as it cools, it encourages it stay a little bit longer instead of just curling and letting it hang down. And then two hours from now, it might look pin straight. So although we're not using that really sticky hair spray just in the styling technique, it's really encouraged toe last. Great. Excellent. So I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked ana there's an awkward question, but we're going to go help. Hey, what it's like to work for me? Tell me what it's like to work here. So fun. I love coming here. This is like one of my favorite. You know I do freelance a lot and I am I do a lot of wedding. Is that him in the salon one day a week? And this is one of my favorite things that just, you know, I live on long island's coming into queen's coming into more of a city like urban environment. The drive in often is just a little inspiring when its thoughts you're trafficking on working for you, I think it's great. I think working with diana is great collaboration and it's just it's feeling of, like a home away from home and it feels like a team it doesn't ever really feel like I have to get up and go to work and you know, you're coming toe hang out with the girls and you're going to, like, meet new people and we're going to get people pretty and then they're going to go do their photo shoot and they're going to feel amazing and, you know, there's, no there's, no bed, and till it and I've worked with all the photographers where it's like a drag, you know, you go in and it's not that same vibe, and you're not meshing and feels like work or feels like you're going in and, you know, you're not working together and everybody is doing their own thing, it really makes it less enjoyable, you know, herman and everything is cohesive, it makes I work a lot easier. So I I appreciate you saying that because I think that if we've proven anything, we're talking with diana and tony it's that you know, this is an experience boudoir is all about the experience and you as the photographer set the tone for everybody and what your clients experience is going to be. So if you have a staff that's a drag or you're a drag or you bring your bad mood in or they bring their garbage in or they're talking behind people's backs in front of your clients, it's not safe environment we need to create these safe, nonjudgmental places for women to feel comfortable to shed their inhibitions also and we're vulnerable to me we all talk about personal stuff with their clients also babies and boyfriends and you know, family arguments whatever it might be so we're just vulnerable is they are it's rice which I think is really important to were not guarded with them and I think that especially when clients come in and they don't have their hair their makeup on like you said before like walking into a hair salon can be intimidating because you're walking into a situation where you're on their territory and people are confident their hair is done in their makeups on their coming in like already they're very much and they don't know anybody so it's our job to really meet some feel comfortable and you know this is like one of the first steps in tow like when they're going to start taking your clothes off right in front of the cameras over there not comfortable from step one I would imagine it's gonna make your job a little harder when it comes time to shoot because they're not going to be as relaxed when they come in and you know we all get along and it's like like I said it's like a home away from home and I think clients really feel that it's more it's easier for them to open up to us as well yeah it's funny how many clients say they feel more naked without makeup than they actually do in launcher is because they have makeup but they're wearing laundry they feel more club than they do if they are just you know so let's talk about amanda's specifically she has amazing hair tonight when we picture I was like tony's gonna thank me for this but the color the length body but tell me a little bit about what you have planned for her today I think that we're going to go big and sexy and we're going to set it so she's got that flow going on and not so street and you'll tosel bedroom sexy hair and she will be very happy with it they think that you'll feel good yeah look great I think how will do anything such a sleaze my job is they are very good work to too much at it good I can't wait to see you theo thank you for joining me today and I hope you guys learn from my staff and you take away at least a few tidbits about what's important to look for in hair and makeup artist um again it's not only about their talent really about how you messed with them and the environment that you set up for your clients it's really, really important and I thank you not just for today but for everything you do for me you know ok ready guys think um so a couple of points if they mentioned that I wanted to bring up a little bit uh first about how cute are they they like have their long island accents I love them when they get mad it comes out even more pretty buddy um but yeah, they're great team to work with. So a couple of points I wanted to mention how I found them. How many of you guys have hair and makeup staff that used on a regular basis? Anybody have on anybody? Wanna offer me an idea of how you found them? I think that there's a microphone back there learn if you wouldn't mind grabbing it. Yeah, yeah, I found my makeup artist who also does hair through a referral from yala which is a company in the town that I live they do photo shoots, they do bamboo clothing so somebody that I know that works there had used her before and it was great. Yeah it's a good fit. Perfect. Yeah, I found mine through another photographer locally who I know to be extremely reliable so I knew what I was getting into. Yeah, that was very nice. Perfect. Anybody else on offer? Actually I share my studio with another photographer who also does here and make up so it's cool like just have her come out that yeah, great good so there's a varied examples of how people find hair makeup artist it's one of the hardest things that we have to do is to find somebody reliable that's good at what they do and that wants to work with you also uh makeup counters or another really great place mac often has a lot of freelancers there but just kind of asked people just keep asking ask her clients when they show up with good makeup and just you know, communicate again so so important um there was another point I wanted to mention that's skipping my mind at the moment so oh my god don't get old um I don't know but here's the other thing you saw how diana diana tony get along marvelously like they work on other jobs together they support each other in fact when I was in the green room getting ready to make a parson there was talking about how she works with the boudoir photographer locally and there's a few um hair and makeup people that rotate around with her and they all really get along it is out there there are people out there that actually love what they do and listen to photographers and support them and just make sure when you guys do like style I shoots and what not that you're giving them credit when you post pictures you say hey heres my hair dresser makeup artist don't be so worried about people so stealing them are giving away you know you want them to have business too you want brides to hire them and people to hire them again after they work with you this is how we support them and they support us I've gotten business from my hair and makeup team that have met a bride before and say you know she says, oh, I work with and rosy ma'am and they'll say, oh my god, I wanted to do boudoir shoot and she's like all contact me I'll set you guys up so it's a it's a one hand washes another type of scenario and that's really important are any last questions before we wrap up this wet yeah great I think you need the microphone though, so if you wouldn't mind passing it down do you find it better to work with a separate hairstylist on a separate makeup artists as opposed to just one person? Great question. Yes, I do like working with separate hair and makeup staff because they work on her at the same time so basically it takes them about an hour to an hour and a half to get a girl ready. If it was one person it would take maybe forty five minutes for makeup and our for hair whatever it might be, it takes a little bit longer um I like that they work on her at the same time because it saved me, time and money. So if I have just be sitting in the studio, I'd rather I'd go a little bit faster. You know, I also kind of think you lessen your risk a little bit there, too, like, god forbid, one of them got sick or you had a problem. At least, you know, you're gonna have good hair, or at least, you know, you're gonna have a good makeup and you could kill somebody else. And, you know, I do have some backup people that I use in case of emergency, but, yeah, I like to have two people, and I also think that they feel accountable to each other and because they worked together so nicely, it's great. But there are some people out there who do both that are a great champion. One girl did my hair and makeup today, and she was amazing, and she was quick, so it really depends on the person. The spence is a little bit more. I'll tell you that it cost me a little bit more to do two separate people for hair makeup than it would for one and that's a little bit of a downfall. For me, my hair make up is pretty expensive. I pay about almost about to fifty, I think it is for the both girls so that's pretty extensive, so when you guys were talking about shooting like I have a session fee of three hundred dollars and includes hair makeup wolf for me, that would never work because my hair make up is pretty expensive, but I know that they're really good, so I feel like they're worth the money, so that doesn't bother me as much. Um, but that's, you know, that's also why sometimes when I do a more low touch experience, I don't always include hair because I feel like that's a little chunk taken out of it for me, um, I'd rather than sort of added it on their own and pay for it as an additional charge. Um also, I do not allow tipping in my studio, so I've built the tip into my price that I pay my makeup artist so my makeup artist might only charge a hundred dollars, but I might give one hundred twenty I've built that in. I feel like it's tacky to sort of ask them for tips. If my clients tip my hair just or makeup artist, they will take it. I'd let the no that that's okay, but I don't tell them t tip the girls I used to like in the beginning I would so don't forget to tip the girls if you love that, but I'm like that's kind of didn't really like that, so I've tipped them and I make sure that they're taking care of happy makeup artist and happy hairdressers show up that's the most important thing getting them to show up, right? Great. So, guys, if you have any questions on this, I invite you to join me in my facebook group. I have the girl upon this screen. It is jen rosa mom's boudoir group. I am active there well as many other boudoir photographers from around the country, so they can also give you perspectives on hair makeup in other areas of the world besides new york. And I invite you to ask me and ask general questions in there as well from other boudoir photography. So please make sure you join us there. So I'm curious where the place that you found your hairdresser makeup artist where's the best place to find them? I want you guys to tweet to me write on facebook you can use the hashtag jen's boudoir boot camp. Um, tell me all about where you found somebody and help inspire another photographer to find a good team today thanks you guys