Pricing for Boudoir: Calculating Your Own Price
Okay, you ready for some more pricing? Uh we talked about the name your own pricing and how it worked out that I started seeing trends in a low, medium high pricy area and how I it helps me come back to packages creating new packages again. Um, so that's, where I'm at right now with my pricing and we're going to talk about that again just to review the pricing progression I started at the shooting burn and some packages at that point and then went toe ala carte sales within our cart with in person sales where my prices went up and then when I saw it starting to sort of fade out, I'm coming back teo packages again. So this is all cyclical, and this time I'm going use what I've learned in the past with the past packages in the name your own price and everything else to create the packages, so I have much more of a base to create them on this time than I did way back when I just kind of made them up. Um eso again we're going from name your own price back two packages okay, so some advanta...
ges again, this is the same thing we talked about what we talked about my original packages and the advantages and the disadvantages really have not changed one of the advantages is the different price points I'm hitting different levels so any client that contacts me hopefully they'll be something in their price range no matter what they're looking for or um and again I know what money I'm going to be making up front, which is very nice because it helps me balance my books a little bit more. One of the things I want to mention is when a client contacts me now for pricing I will send them this pricing but I will also tell them that I'm open for custom packages if you don't see something you want tell me and I'm happy to work with you to make something more custom just yesterday in fact I got an email from a girl who's that I really like package three but package three comes with an album and I don't I want an album could we do something else? And I said sure, what do you have in mind? She said can you add ten extra pictures instead? Sure allah ten extra pictures no problem it's a great trade off for me in fact, I might even make a little more money that way, right? Because I don't have to buy an album so that's a great trade off so even though I'm back two packages I'm so still letting science no, we're flexible I'm here to serve you I want to make this as customers possible for you here is basically, the packages that I present to you based on the most popular options, but these were not the only options. So again, we're talking about meeting our clients needs being flexible and still making money disadvantages are I still think that there's gonna be a little bit of lost sales here. I hope not. I hope I learn my lessons from the first time I did the packages in that, um, I'm going to make sure there are not lost sales that they're going to get what they're looking for. I'm going to make it very known to them if they want to upgrade their pictures or, you know, up, sell any type of upsetting, I'm going to make that much more able to do that because also taking west clients here than the first time I did packages, so I have a little more time. I have more time to communicate with them. Um, and it is less customized it again avoiding that problem by telling them from the start, we can customize the package for you. So tell me what you're looking for and we could make that work, okay, so there's still sort of a an element of negotiation here, okay, so this is what my pricing currently looks like now. It's come a long way, right? Um and you know what I'm going to tell you? It is true that had a designer do this for me at this point in my career. I can't, I just don't like I don't like editing can imagine I like using photo shopped for anything else besides photos? No, not at all. So I had somebody do this for me and you notice on the side, I have my shamelessly feminine hashtag it's one of the things that I love, I identify with, and I use it to sort of send out my message not just for boudoir, but for everything that I do. You'll cease shamelessly feminine and a lot of stuff that I do, so I think that this is a good message to send to my clients sort of right from the beginning, you know, it kind of plant that shamelessly seven and seed for them, and I have four packages now, I have to actually look at this carefully because this is fairly new for me, so I don't even know it by heart this way, but basically I started with package one it's one hour of shooting time, one look, a professional makeup and seven high res images for a thousand dollars. Okay and you're going to see we're going to go through a pricing chart and I'm going to talk to you a little about how I came up with this pricing and we're gonna work with erin actually working on her pricing so this is not no longer the pull it out of the tush method you guys this is actually calculated numbers, and for me in my studio I really ideally don't want to shoot for less than a thousand dollars at any given point that's really what I need minimum to make it work um again you'll see I included hair makeup but not hair okay, hair is gonna throw me over the edge where it's going to take that extra hundred thirty dollars out of my pocket, which I don't want to dio but she has the option to add hair she could do that um in fact it should say no, it doesn't say on the bottom, but it maybe I should have it's a you know, adding hair, but this is something I'll communicate with them about. So that's that's not a big deal. One thing I did notice just now as I was looking that's on the bottom of the price sheet that I think it's so important for you guys to know it's his pricing subject to change without notice please please please put that on your price sheet I have made mistakes like typos and then changed it and somebody go oh, but it's set it on this one and I go, you're right I'm not a lock my bright she didn't say anything about that, so prices subject to change without notice is kind of important, especially in my world because I change prices every five minutes so you never know what diversion you're going to get there but that's really important uh package too is also an hour of shooting time and it's a look a professional hair and makeup and I have fifteen digital images for about its twelve, ninety nine there and I upgraded I have double the amount of images and I have makeup included in there as well okay um package three is an hour and a half of shooting time and by the way it takes me about a half an hour per outfit so I would estimate that three an hour and a half a shooting times about three outfits give or take uh is at least three outfits I should put it that way I might be able to sneak in a fourth but it's about the re outfits they're um it's professional hair makeup twenty images that air digital and a twenty page class good war album and the digital slideshow that's the an emoto slideshow now you see, I freeze my price there by about four hundred fifty dollars, but I headed a lot of stuff in, but something like the slide show isn't costing me any money, so that's really great. I'm able to put something in this not costing me money and it's a lot of perceived value there and it's not just perceive that there is value for her there to have it, but it doesn't cost me anything that's the best kind of thing you can add to a package, and this is something new I'm trying on package for I have two hours of shooting time, professional hair and make up thirty images digitally twenty page album and the lightly edited proofs I'm actually including all the proofs that are not final edits, and I know it's surprising I actually started seeing some people doing this, and I know I always say, like, put your blinders on, don't worry about what other people are doing. There are some people in my area doing this, and I do actually believe that it's hurting my business, I do believe that, and that is when my antennas go up it's not when I go oh she's doing something different to me or she has a backdrop that I don't have whatever, I don't care about that stuff, but when it starts impacting my bookings, I'm listening real carefully so I'm trying it it's a calculated rescue guys I have nothing to lose from it I think that you'll see when we do the editing that might my proofs are not that much different from my final edit so I'm comfortable if somebody takes one of my proofs and posted on facebook or something I'm not going to die of embarrassment it's going to be okay the final edits are better and I hope that they will notice the difference enough to not post that stuff but don't forget you guys this is food war this is not like grandma's taking this picture and post it all over facebook and making a thousand prints or whatever if she just wants to have them for her own use why not like any time you see a trend and everybody's doing something one way and you think maybe you want to do it the other way asked why not what do I have to lose here for me I don't really see that I have much to lose I'm gonna try it if it doesn't work I take it out and change the price big to change it um so right now this is where I'm at so I pricing is from ninety nine up to twenty one ninety nine you'll notice it's a little bit less than that twenty five hundred number that I've been telling you about that I try to hit all the time but this is life right now, you guys twenty five hundred dollars is not booking, so I have to lower the price a little bit. But again, this is based off of my name, your own price, and this is based off those four points that I seem to have been hitting a lot around eight hundred around twelve hundred fifteen to sixteen hundred around two thousand these are the points that I'm hitting here, so my feeling is I'm pretty much hitting everyone in my audience by by delivering these for price points that makes sense I do have on the bottom upgrade to a luxury album is another four fifty and ask about adding additional photos to your album so just from notjust the plant that seed that's something that I'll adjust with her at a later time when she sees her pictures. Okay, so this is this is pretty much what my packages looked like as of right now. Um, so again, when clients contact me at this point, I'm not calling them I'm not right now talking to them on the phone unless it's absolutely necessary, unless they say I want to talk to you, but I am still asking them by first question is, why are you doing the shoot? So I don't always reply with the pricing I just reply with, oh my god so excited thank you for telling me thank you for contacting me telling me about your birthday or your anniversary your wedding or whatever tell me what you have in mind what do you thinking? I'm so excited to work with you you know I think I'm like positive like weird we're booking this thing you know this is good um and then it opens up conversation from there and at that point either I can't work with you because it's you're not looking to do what I'm looking to dio are great I definitely think we have a package that works for you I'm going to send you all my pricing but check out package number three I think you'd be perfect for what you want whatever it might be don't be afraid to gear them a little bit toward what you what you want to sell, what you think will work for them be honest about it um again I offer them this priceless and I totally always offer them the ability for the custom package. I think it's really important that I think the more I learn about is praising and boudoir is just everybody so different everybody wants something different you know, um I'm not saying that every wedding is the same, but weddings have sort of a standard procedure, right? You have like the formals you have the ceremony? I mean, I'm not a wedding photographer. Just tell me if I'm wrong. You have the ceremony. You have the reception there's there's overall generally kind of standard ways that weddings go right with some exceptions. Boudoir is so different, like every woman is so different and, you know, you see people time like right back. Oh, I have the perfect session for you. How do you know if it's the perfect session if you haven't even asked them what they want, so I want to I do want to make it perfect for them. So asking them what they want is really important to me. Um, depending on the package again, I will do you either online or in person sales, probably for my twenty one hundred dollar package. My twenty two hundred package I'll do in person sales. I think that that's really important for the ninety nine package. I probably won't probably do online sales unless there's like something happens during the shoot and she's like, oh, my god, god, I'm gonna love all of these. I have to I can't wait. Will you help me pick them? If she's giving me indications that things were going to get, you know sold up, sold I'm definitely gonna do it if I have time, I'm definitely going to do it. But if things were really busy and I'm traveling a lot, I don't really have time. I might just put them online. I'm going to make the call as it goes. Okay, when you do this long enough, you start really reading the clients and I'm not saying I'm never wrong. Sometimes I'm wrong, but you start really understanding who your clients are and what you're dealing with and knowing what they're looking for. That's that's something that I can't teach you guys necessarily I can't teach you experience, you have to just have that so keep working on it that's why I say, get people in have get the experience. Okay, so up selling this is the pricing I present after the shoot, just like I did in the ala carte method member I told you I didn't show this pricing. I'm doing the same thing now, even if it's an online sales thank you so much, just a reminder hears the, um okay, so if I'm doing online says when we say here is your pictures and by the way, I don't know if I told you yeah, but we also offer some wall art if you want to take a look here is the pricing so if you have a favorite picture, you want to blow it up or you want to do something special here's the pricing for that and I send them this again. It's really simple wall portrait or float wraps, portrait or just prince white house prince foot wraps are from white house also real simple just bang right on the wall and you know, if somebody wants a custom product, they want something else they'll ask me that's fine, but I really keep it very, very simple question a client who, after they see the warlock prices that they're just like, ok, I don't want an album anymore. I just want well, in this case, it's already packages they've already bought it. So don't you worry about that now? Okay. Okay. So we're gonna talk a little bit about how to create your own pricing. I've never done this like with somebody else. So it's gonna be kind of interesting. Ah, we're going to see how it works, but let's, talk a little bit about, um, before I get you to talk a little bit more about this. So first figure out which which pricing method works best for you in your business and your time and in your life? What works best for you? There are no judgments here if you guys leave doing packages you leave doing all the car you want to try name your own price and you wantto do more packages whatever you know you want three packages you want ten packages doesn't matter think a little bit like especially tonight after we leave here I know you guys you're all gonna be like having a thousand questions think about what work through the time what do you most comfortable with? Are you comfortable with in person sales? Not everybody is you know, maybe you guys are in a good position like, you know we need to talk more about this like I think brian, you take the pictures right? And jen does more of like the styling and all of that because she's super stylish kind want to go shopping with her one day but that's a great marriage like maybe one of you is better on online in person sales and one of you is better at the shooting or because there's a lot of married couples out there they're doing miss, you know, even in other types of photography as well. So that's great if you're not comfortable with in person sales, maybe you have an assistant who is who's better at it than you pay her commission to do that like I do with diana you know, think about what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are and work with what you have if you're not comfortable doing something don't push if it finds a way to make it work if you really want to do it so don't work against the grain you guys go with the grain again most people use to pull it out of your tush method stop using that method doesn't work you know it comes out of your touch not good but it's never good uh so stop using that method immediately we're going to do math okay? I mean think about it. Okay, so pricing is actually simple math you guys I mean my fourth grader has the hardest math homework in the entire world. I could barely help her. This is easier than fourth grade math homework so there are no excuses you should be able to do this. Um basically how much money do you want to make a year and how many shoots can you handle real simple it's math division they to division really weird now, by the way, so weird. So if you want to bring in one hundred thousand dollars okay and you want to average seven hundred fifty dollars a shoot you have to shoot one hundred thirty four sessions, okay, when you see the numbers broken down the way I want somebody to tell me how they feel about that that sucks one hundred thirty four people is a lot right I was even surprised when I did the math myself I was like wow that's a lot of shooting that's a lot of booking if you're booking one hundred thirty four girls and you don't book every girl that inquires with you that means you're probably answering at least one e mail a day at these twenty mill today how many of you are getting at least one angry a day every day for the entire year? No right now so you're talking about not only booking one hundred thirty four girls you're talking about getting three hundred injuries or whatever it might be ok I'm making up some numbers here but you understand how these ratios work right? So one hundred thirty four shoes is quite a lot I was talking to a friend once she was like I really want to make about a thousand dollars a session she pulls it out of her touch I want to make a thousand dollars session awesome how many sessions you want to take a year? Twenty okay well let's just talk about that for a second so you wanna make twenty thousand dollars and not make bring in okay you want to bring in twenty thousand dollars she's like listen, I'm going to be frank with you you should have been better off getting a job at mcdonald's at least you'll have health insurance okay, you'll make more money and you have health insurance so let's think about this you guys a thousand dollars or shoot sounds awesome. That sounds like a good number but how many shoots can you handle? I personally can't even handle one hundred thirty four shoots by myself at this point okay, again I three thirty I like to call it a day and be home for my kids I like to take vacations I like to travel I like to teach I like to connect with other people I can't do that if I'm shooting one hundred thirty four sessions so I certainly have to make sure that I'm making more than seven hundred fifty dollars a shoot. Okay, so when we talk about like shooting through you know for three hundred dollars I only charge three hundred dollars start doing the math, you guys, how many sessions do you have to shoot a three hundred dollars to make the money that you want to make and be able to live the life you want to live? It's a reject like everybody turn green when I started doing this it's a ridiculous number, right? So this is where sort of that catch twenty two comes like when people say to me why I'm afraid people are going to book me if I charge more which way are you better off people not booking you and not making money. We're working your butt off and not making money. Which way do you want it now? Like I said, I'm not saying that working and not making so much money in the beginning is the worst thing in the world. We all have to pay some dues. We all have to get some experience. But for you guys, especially that are a few years into this or you have your own studio or you have bills to pay. Think about how much money you actually have to make. And this is not a we're not even talking about making a salary. We're not talking about covering bills here. We're talking about just surviving, right? So you have to really, really do this math. Okay? Are you guys okay? Anybody needed, like, pepto? Not just yet. Okay. All right. So we're gonna make a chart. This is a chart, actually, a friend of mine made for me when I started talking about the packages. Because I, my friend benny is he's, a very good photography friend and he's, a very good friend of mine. But he happens to be a photographer. Action's on you. So I was like, benny. Coming up with my packages I want to bounce some things off of you because I don't always trust myself with my math I always wanna bounce things off people this is where you guys you're married couple have an advantage you can bounce him off of each other right? So this is why I always say it's important to have good photography friends people you could bounce things off of that, you know, even though they're not involved in your business, you can trust them. So benny was nice enough to make the spreadsheet for me and said I'll put it in a spreadsheet send me all the numbers he did this for me um plus I'm not that good an xl but we just kind of run through some numbers don't you don't have to pay attention to these numbers exactly, but we just came up with a few things and I'm going to do this with you and we're gonna actually do this and this is in the chart by the way that comes if you purchase the class this this chart is actually in the packet so you can figure it out yourself a cz well um what are your expenses? What are you paying for every month? What is your salary? Well, you know what kind of money are you taking and we want to talk about your your hair makeup you're edits your albums you send it out to be edited or do you do it yourself? How much is it costing you and what your packages need to bay and the funny thing is even with me myself when I first did this the package price and I came up with wasn't enough well I'm gonna actually lose fifty bucks if I do it at this price at eight fifty instead of ninety nine who wants to lose money? I don't want to lose money, so we're going to talk about that like, what are your monthly expenses and think about it you guys monthly expenses or anything from toles car parking gas rent utilities, insurance products that you need to buy, you know, equipment that you need to buy um there's a lot of hidden costs in there too, like I have a bookkeeper I have an attorney, I have a new assistant that I need to pay I I mean there's a like when you start really realizing how many people you're paying, you're like, oh my god, I can't believe anyone come plane's about a thousand dollars shoot this is crazy there's so many people to pay, so start thinking about that, you know, if you start going to photography conventions and you're paying for dinner, you know we're gonna have dinner tonight that's a business sixpence okay uh think about these expenses and what you had need to pay for their start writing them down there they're hidden costs you know, like even membership fees for these you know, like people things like that there's all these like hidden costs if you enter print competitions you know, there's so many things are so so many things you buy stuff for your studio furniture lighting I mean I could go on and on there's a ton of monthly expenses um session expenses session expenses are more like what's gonna cross you in that session so that's really more of what I consider and I might have mentioned this with monthly but I really meant for session is hair makeup you know the people that you pay those fees too you're rentals for the hotel or your studio whatever it might be those your session expenses so like hair and makeup you're if you're not booking anything you're not paying these people but when you book you have to pay them okay so if you go a whole month without booking anything he's not going to cost you anything on that end except for me like my studio it still cost me money to have my studio even if I'm not booking sessions right? So you need to think about that um so again there's a difference between how much money you bring into your business and how much money you actually make let's get really clear on that because I love hearing people saying I brought in one hundred thousand dollars last year awesome if you got to keep fifty of it you're not very successful, you know that was me my my three hundred girl year I brought in so much money I'm looking at the books like this is awesome but I didn't I didn't amount that I got to keep was nauseated it was no good okay aaron, you asked me a question in one of the other segments about pricing and so this is why I chose you take a few deep breaths you're gonna be fine. I swear I've lived through this experience more than once it's gonna be okay all right, so let's talk I have it I have the grid here from the actual workbook that comes with the class so let's talk a little bit about where you shoot where do you shoot hotels? Okay, awesome. So give me an idea of what a hotel might cost you for a shoot to fifty oh, you have very good idea. Okay, how many shoes do you do? My ideally probably about two. Okay, so it's five hundred dollars a month and so I have some other things here that, like I have in my life that you might not have so let's make some adjustments like I have book keeper do you have do you have a book keeper? Do you do it yourself? Do you have an accountant? Do you have? Okay, um you're brave. All right? So and we're gonna go to businesses. Anything I'm missing. You tell me we're gonna start adding it. Okay. Advertising to do any paid advertising. Okay. Car, do you have your car through your business? No. Okay. You're a bad pick. Now, um, phone. Do you pay for your phone? Like your cell phone? Do you so hot today. And what I must do you pay for that? About one hundred twenty. Okay. Okay. Insurance for your business. You have, like, product and ah, equipment insurance. About thirty. A month. Yeah. Okay. When we're done, you're gonna tell me who your insurance companies that's. Pretty good. Okay, uh, all right, let's, talk about your car for just one second, so you don't pay for it through the business. However, if you could, would you pay for your car insurance? Yeah. Okay. So, let's, could we build that into this let's? Just pretend like you want to, so we're okay. So how much do you mind telling us how much your car is every month? I actually don't know, okay, let me guess. For insurance or just for a paint like if you had a car payment you have a car payment I don't oh my god you're amazing somebody oh somebody throw out your car painted what's your car payment okay four hundred sounds like there's good basic number okay that's good. This is just okay do you mind checking you might need a new car one day for sure you pay that one off it's obviously not so. And then car insurance this you have an idea? I don't think I'm going to say maybe about two hundred a month but I could be with my husband. I'm not sure sounds high let's make it a hundred dollars a month and I'm in new york I pay less in that so I would think that okay and memberships like are you a member of p p a or any other organizations or, you know subscriptions to magazines or anything that like should we put in a miscellaneous like yeah, tommy yes website that's goodbye let's put that here that's about thirty two thirty five a month. We'll call it thirty five. You know called thirty to keep everything even what else? What other kind of expenses do you have every month I buy a lot of external hard drives, okay that's good. So how much are we talking? I'm I would say I probably go through about two, a year. Okay? And how much of those, uh, a little over one hundred? Ok, so let's, something like twenty dollars a month? Okay, okay. All right. We can go on and on and on and on. But this will give you an idea of sea, like even that twenty dollars, at little, right? It adds up because it was twenty dollars here in twenty dollars there and another twenty dollars there, right? Like I buy some lingerie for the studio. Maybe you do that. You go all with one hundred dollars. I'll just buy it or it's whatever. So it's a lot of, like, hidden little cost in there. There's. You know, like in my studio, we pay tolls not told I'm so sorry parking meter so like, every two hours the parking meters up. So I paid two dollars for every car every two hours and I pay for my client's parking too. So I have a lot of parking expenses, you know, gas, things like that. So there is you see what I'm saying, you guys is a lot of expenses. Thank you, guys. I'm so great there's a lot of expenses now I have to do it myself there's a lot of expenses that are hidden costs start writing them down even when you go home like on february first start writing down every day what do you spending I don't know about you guys but even now like sometimes I get my credit card bill for the business every month and I'm like cheese where did this come from? You know you kids like you unexpected so keep track of some of those expenses all right so let's add this up if you do do you okay so this is twelve hundred dollars a month which is amazing math that was awesome because divided by twelve e by twelve hundred dollars okay oh, I'm sorry this is a month okay no so we're not dividing this my child this is twelve hundred a month. Okay so you said have any you shoot a month how many sessions who would want we're talking about food wire probably vote too okay so this means if you have two sessions a month you need to make a minimum of six hundred dollars just to cover these expenses every month okay, what do you charging now give me an idea of what you're charging I charge um three hundred okay is that what does that include it is that includes digital images and typically ideo about thirty I say twenty five to thirty or twenty five to thirty five images ok um and an album for three hundred dollars okay it's okay, just checking and sew and I have them purchase the hotel room. Okay, so then technically that five hundred dollars is not on here. Okay, I'll take that off, okay? Okay, I was going to say well, you know you're paying two hundred fifty dollars for hotel room, right? Okay, yeah, that would be bad for us and we're really at seven hundred dollars monthly costs. Okay, let's, just talk about overhead for just one session for one second. Do do hair make up? Um I don't require her ok, I my sisters and make a part of that. Did you pay her in love e uh I mean, if I did, if I do care she's an obe for something fifty fifty dollars. Okay, let's, just thank them. Pay her directly. Okay, fifty and so let's just included for argument's sake right now, um, do you pay for two? You do your own editing, do ok? And how much is your album cost? You just say it. Ok. Ok. So you have one hundred dollars session cost basically between the makeup and the album assuming you pay your sister in more than love. All right, so we're going to do this. You ready your to your shooting two amongst you seven hundred dollars a session a month in your monthly overhead okay, we're going to divide that by two. So it's three hundred fifty dollars a session broken down to okay and now you have one hundred dollars per session fee that's costing you right? Ok, ok. What you to do the math here they did it. I did it wrong. What is three, fifty plus one hundred three fifty four fifty what are you charging? Okay, so she's charging three hundred dollars the way I see it you're losing one hundred fifty dollars a session so you're basically losing three hundred dollars a month the way you're charging now I said make sense yes okay, I feel like that. Okay, negative wait, but I love doing it so much that I would pay to do it I don't believe you I do too. So here is what I wanted to do, right? You're so red I feel bad about embarrassing you ok? I want you to make a decision right now. Are you a charity or your business? Okay, therefore we need to change this so let's talk about it just a little bit. Okay. All right, so let's, just assume you want to have more than one package, okay, we're going to come up with basically a minimum package that you have tohave to cover and make some money for yourself because one thing we did not include in any of these costas salary so any money that you want to take from the business to pay yourself right right, I remember that because you're not a charity, right? So let's talk a little bit about that, so if you are basically you're not spending any more you're really not spending that much money on your session fees said she's paying for the the hotel so basically you need teo make more than four hundred fifty dollars, so if let's say four fifty was your mitt like four fifty is gonna cover you right? How much money? And you might not know the answers right now, but how much money do you want to make on top of that, you actually get to keep like, how many hours you spending on this? How much do you want to make an hour? You know, let's talk about that a little bit on you know what let's actually back up. The one thing we don't have on here is how much money you want to be bringing into your studio in boudoir because I really do shoot other things also, but in boudoir howmuch money ideally would you like to make a year to bring in? Just before I would say I would like them, it just became twelve hundred or twelve thousand dollars it okay in boudoir second alright let's get audio all right so you want to basically make a thousand dollars a month yes yeah make not bring in make you want to be able to keep a thousand dollars a month okay, so here's the thing I'm gonna break this down for your real easy ready if it's costing you for fifty per session every month and you want to make a thousand dollars a month and you're doing two shoots a month right? We're going to add five hundred to that four fifty and you're talking about nine fifty and your minimum package to be nine hundred fifty dollars minimum do you see how that works? You guys because anything over that is a bonus, right? But if you want to definitely make that thousand dollars and you want to cover all of these fees and shoot two girls a month that's how it has to be now maybe you saved yourself well, you know what? Nine fifty's too expensive for me right now so maybe you need to shoot three girl a month. Maybe you need to change it up a little bit. What what else you shoot besides boudoir uh, families seniors I have been in the past shooting weddings also ok, so a lot so what's happening is all these other things you're shooting assuming you're making money on those erin because we're not even gonna address that right now I don't know what you're fighting for the assuming you're making money on those those things are picking up the slack for this so you basically have to book an extra family every month or you are three extra families among their two actual families you have to book an extra wedding you have to book all that extra work that you have to do to make up the money that you're losing on boudoir so not only are you losing money but you're doing extra work on the other end does that make sense? Really? Ok, so so tell me a little bit I know this is kind of overwhelming um and I want you guys all to do this like this is your homework you're going to come in with this tomorrow we're going to discuss it and this is especially important for those of you that are starting out because this is going to help you avoid the mistakes that I mean in the beginning when I charge too little and then I had a jack my prices up tremendously so this is important for you guys, especially like I'm glad you're at least having people pay for their own hotel room because that would scare me if you're if you're paying for the hotel room but you know there's other things is here too that you might not be paying for through your business that you can be on it this is one of the advantages I mean I don't want to get all accountants on everybody because I'm not an accountant and you have to check with your accountant and your state rules and whatnot but the truth of the matter is that there's plenty of things that you could declare his business expenses this is part of what owning your own business in america is about being able to pay for certain things through your business and not out of your own pocket right so we want to get really clear on that I want you to find an accountant I want you to talk to an accountant and see what you should be expensing and how you can cover that they're your photography that's what being a business is you guys it's not just having fun like we all have fun and we love to change live but we want to make sure that we're making money and that numbers work also makes sense yes okay tom how are you feeling are you feeling like I know there's a lot of emotion involved in this like you know for me I know that when I jacked up my prices or I started panicking I got like it's like hurt my belly so tell me like what you're thinking I want to know well I mean I'm I know that I need to do it. I've always known that I need to do it, but I'm so terrified of losing the volume, the volume that I have right now is perfect. I would love to do more, but booed or other than that, what I have is manageable for me. Um, but I make nothing and, well, you're losing money, and I'm so, you know, it's, not fun to struggle, and so to be, I know that I need to do it, but then I'm looking at other people's prices, and I'm going, I'm not as good as they are, I can't charge as much as they dio I've got a lot of stuff going on hey, wait, who have done that? We've all done that we have all done that I didn't do that on I know it's my biggest it's what I need to get over it's just so hard to do it just because, you know you need to doesn't mean you can and that mentality and my opinion is kind of like, I like the expressions what separates the men from the boys because you have to be able to do it, or else you will not succeed in this business and the people out there that are charging fifty dollars. Or charging one hundred dollars that you are worried about they will not be in existence a year from now because I guarantee I don't know them but I know there's no way that they could survive on that kind of money and I'm not putting people down that do it I understand why they do it but I'm telling you they're not making money they're not gonna be able to keep a business ah float like that so stop worrying about them because they won't be here next year right? You're going to be here next year that's what I'm worried about what you're going to be here if you're losing one hundred fifty dollars a session right no so I would like for you teo for tiger right it's bad enough to be a photographer you don't be a homeless retired over now so you guys comments questions? You understand where we came up with these numbers how are you feeling this in relation to your business and your numbers tell me how you're feeling somebody pick a microphone there has to be emotions here I know it well you should feel very normal I think because you know we all struggle with you know how we value ourselves so I think there's always doubt you know and I I'm I make pretty good money now and I mean I still I lowered my prices for no reason like last year because I've got freaked out one month so I think it's just very normal to feel that way, you know oh my god, you're gonna like make me all tear up because when you say like valuing yourself like that is so hard, isn't it? Valuing yourself and what you're worth is like it's it's so difficult we all we do, we all struggle with that but you guys you know what? You all have talent you all have something to offer women you all have a passion I mean, you're here, you left your business is to fly to seattle tto learn something and to spend time with me and each other and so obviously you love this, you know? And that is worth something it's not just how good of a picture you take you know, I understand this is a photography class and we're gonna talk about posing and we'll talk about lighting and what our settings are on the equipment and all that is really important. But the most important thing is really loving what you dio and giving our clients these experiences it's not about the picture. So the thing is that stop comparing your pictures of somebody else's pictures because they could suck they could have a terrible attitude they could be horrible to work with and you're awesome like I've only known you what eight hours right or whatever we're at today we spend time together but the thing is I already know you have a vibrant personality you obviously have a passion for this don't underestimate your talent and your love for what you do that is such a sin when people do that it breaks my heart and what you're doing is you're telling other women you're worth it you're worth it too right right right um something else that you said jolene um what did you say jolene I lowered my prices for no reason because you panicked one month we all do that the way I find the bookings go is my bookings for about six weeks out sometimes people will book a little further out but it's about six weeks out after six me so now I could be you know dead I have no idea but this is what happens it goes in like six weeks spurts you guys find that too so portrait photographers are need to be prepared to live a life of terrible tragedy because every day we think we're going out of business okay that's just the way it is even my husband like I have to talk him off the ledge all the time can't be like you have a book tempting what's going on are you busy how many sessions you know like calm down it always happens you know it happens you know it's just too early it's you know, we're two months out nobody's booking now for that date or whatever it might be, so I've learned that over the years that's another mistake that people make that are in the beginning of their business they think justcause people aren't booking all these months out that they're in trouble and that's not true, I find that portrait's especially boudoir very close to when they want to actual shoot actually shoot is when they book so cyclical totally it's it's very cyclical do you have a question? I just know it is it's very emotional and especially, I think because we really love what we do, so we want to keep doing it. So, like, I think I'm more close to how you were in the beginning and more of the three I probably shot close to three hundred women in the last year, and I absolutely love it and I have absolutely loved every one of the sessions and I have bonded with every woman and the thought of lowering that number a lot scares me it's like I'm almost a dick I'm addicted to the high of a boudoir session it makes you feel, you know, I can have a bad day and go in the studio and make this woman feel great and I feel great, but here's the thing don't then don't lower it yeah that's okay do what you want to do it didn't work for me but if it works for you I think that that's awesome but I still think you should charge what you're worth even if you're right you have a lot of clients it doesn't mean you shouldn't charge what you're worth if you don't have to say to yourself well I'm not goingto you know listen you have to decide what's important to you is it more important for you have to be hundred clients or to make x number of dollars procession? But I want you to go home and work tonight even do this exercise and make sure you're even making the money that you need to be making based on the three hundred girls because I'd rather you take two hundred girls which is still an awful lot of girls and make a little more money per shoot or even make money pursuit right then take three hundred girls and lose money or just break even or just make a little bit of money do you understand what I'm saying there's there's a happy medium here for you I think it's awesome if you want to shoot three hundred girls a year women a year I applaud that I think it's incredible it's too much overwhelming but then there's yeah the fear of how much is it going to drop off when you raise your prices? I think everyone is afraid of that yeah, of course, but a little drop off is okay if it's too much for her and a little drop off is okay and don't do what I did don't take a huge leap off of a diving board into an empty pool raise it a little raise a twenty five dollars every five girls you book raising fifty dollars raise it a little here and there take gradually do it I made a big mistake I'm standing here today are sitting here telling you that I made a really big mistake don't make it do something differently than I did I survived thank god, but it was a close call, you know? So don't do what I did and I love what you said about the fact that when you do that you came back time I mean, even if you have less people and you're making more money and equals out the time that you have with your kids makes it all worth it right? And I'm coming from a point of view a za mother, but if I didn't have children I still kind of want that time yeah, yeah, you know like this is this is not just about boudoir photography it's not just about the women this is about creating the lives that we want to live there is no point in being a no, I think none of us want to sit behind a desk could we all made it? Can we all agree on that? Like we're creatives we don't want to sit behind a task it have a nine to five job whether we do or we don't is another story, but we don't want to be doing it. So this is about creating the life that you want to live as a creative as a adult, as a spouse, as a mom, as whoever you are and, you know, making it work for you, I am sure that busting your ass and shooting three hundred girls a year and being buried behind the computer late nights in the dark is not how you envision leading a life is entrepreneur, it is necessary, sometimes the entrepreneurs were hard workers, they have to do this stuff to survive. I mean, when my family business we I wash toilet bowls like I did anything I had to do to make that business survive right? But it comes to a point where you do the work and you're like, okay, at some point I need to enjoy this what's the point of it if you can't have fun and enjoy it and take a time and take a breath, take a vacation, right, make some money so you can go on vacation, make some money right this is I think that this is hard for boudoir biggs again, we are doing something amazing for women but don't think you have to be a charity to do that you can still make a living doing it there is nothing wrong with making money and helping women at the same time. It's ok, I give you guys permission to make money, give yourself permission to make money and do it did you have a question doing? I just wanted to say when I was here two years ago I was pretty much exactly in your spot you're going to crash and burn if you're not making any money you know at some point the enjoyment stops because it's so incredibly frustrating especially if you can't pay your bills so if you don't do the work now you will crash and burn because two years ago when I came here I was ready to quit and walk away so is it it's? It is emotional and isn't a crazy like maybe I should take out the slide. This is pricing a simple math because it's really not it's simple math with a ton of emotion mixed in and a lot of guilt do you guys feel guilty when you charge like that? Sometimes I feel guilty, you know and it's like my husband on his own business and for him it's not an emotional business it's it's very black and white, so it's, like they make the money where you can it doesn't like that I don't want to take advantage. I don't want somebody to feel like I'm using them or, you know, it's it's very emotional, so this is also part of the boundaries and make I'm sure you've set yourself up so like, this is my pricing, this is how it works, and I'm not gonna feel bad about it, and I will work with you. And you know what? If a woman called me and said, you know, I really want a boudoir issue, but I, you know, I can't do it for this or for that, do you make exclusions here and there? Do you say? Okay, maybe I I hope you for a little less than I could, you know, make money for or I'll break even or you just cover the hair and makeup people or whatever it might be good do some charity there's, nothing wrong with that, but we're not charities period were businesses, and you have to treat it as such. And what I love about this is that there are so many things that I am not, including because I want to be ableto put that lower. Price on it on, I want to be able to say it's on ly three hundred dollars, and I do say that they're, you know, there is a cost if you want to do a hotel room and if you decide to do here and make up that's an additional cost, but this is what you're going to get from me, and I really want to be able to do something all inclusive, but it terrifies me to put that big price tag on it, but at the same time, I'm never going to have that their entire experience is never going to be all mine it's going to be the lady at the mall and the lady is she went to for her hair, and I need to take it and own it and be able to say, this is my experience that I'm giving to you, you know, put a price on that, right? I'm kind of what you're saying to them now is like, I'm cheap, I'm only three hundred dollars, right? Cheap and you, you know, so here's the other thing, I always find it fascinating that you're so worried about not booking a nine hundred dollar client let's say, well, of course you're not going to book a nine hundred dollar client cause you're not offering a nine hundred dollar package how do you know what you're going to book if you haven't even put it out there? You don't know you're just scared you're not going to you know have some faith in yourself you actually might you know um the other thing is that I was going to say is sometimes not all the time but sometimes people businesses get affected because they're too too so like they might and I think you're a good photographer because you're only three hundred dollars right that's a perception so it's like you know you can buy two items one and target which is a knockoff for one agent provocateur and this one's eight hundred dollars this one's eighty dollars and you're perception is totally different of the two but they maybe were made in the same factory right but we all buy designer things they make us feel good we all save up our money we buy jimmy choos shoes you know whatever you feel like a lot of a lot of women save up and buy things because there's a perception attached to it but you think that a lot of those persons or shoes or made any different than something that's half the price probably not, but there's a name attached to it and a perception attached to it and that's what I want you to think of also I can't guarantee that that's the case with anybody but there is a perception there totally value perception so think about that so when you're you're basically putting out in the world I'm only to be hunted dollars I'm cheap you're not worth it and I'm not worth it and that's that's not the message I'm hearing you say right yes learn something that you said the last creative live that really resonated with me that has helped me detach a lot of the emotion from setting my prices is when you were talking about you know you don't go into nordstroms and say, well, I know these jeans are a hundred dollars but really I only want to pay twenty what do you say? No business runs like that so just because we're creatives doesn't mean that we should excuse me run our businesses like that either and just I think about that all the time when you said that it makes it like so black and white like yeah sorry those are my prices and I'm confident with them and that's what it is and so thanks for saying that two years ago thank you for reminding me that I fed it on yes this goes back to confidence again have we not talked about confidence in every single segment so far? This is about your confidence and building the comments and this price ingrid will help you guys build the confidence because when somebody says to you well I can only afford five hundred you could see what I can only afford nine hundred because if I book you with five hundred, I'm losing money. It's simple math. I can't afford to shoot you for five hundred dollars, period, so it'll make it much easier to say no to that client too deep breaths. All right, you're gonna work on this remains a promise and you're gonna report back to me? Yes. Ok, toss them still. Move. Don't go anywhere. Okay, okay. Make sure you check us out on our facebook group on my facebook group. Pricing is a huge hot topic all over photography, especially boudoir. We run the gamut in pricing, but let's, get it together, you guys, um, I want to know, do you guys do in person sales and how that works for you? Make sure you shut out to me on twitter at gen rosenbaum with izzy hashtag gens boudoir boot camp and hashtag shamelessly feminine or semi note on facebook and again, you can join our facebook group and chat with all of us and thousands of more amazing boudoir photographers around the world. Thank you.