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One Hour Photo - Daniel Gregory

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to one hour photo with John Gringo. I'm John, and we've got another good episode for you today. All right? What we're gonna be doing, as always, is we're gonna be taking a look at some of the questions you have submitted. And I'm gonna be answering five of those questions about photography gear and everything else we're gonna be then introducing Daniel Gregory, who's gonna be my guest today? I'm going to talk to him about fine art photography. We got a bunch of his photos toe look at, so we're gonna have a good chat with that. And then he's gonna stick around so that we can review your photos that you've submitted through the creative live website. And we got a real good collection of photos this week, so we're gonna have a good time checking those out and seeing what we like. And maybe what we could improve or who knows, make a little bit better. All right, so let's dive into it today. So some kind of changes here at one hour photo and that we now have t...

he one hour photo bundle with John Gringo Page that you confined on Creative Lives website. And so if you want to find the collection of all of these one hour photos, you can do that by looking for the one hour photo bundle. Now, to be honest with you, it's a little hard to find on the Creative Life website. And so I found that it's very easy. If you do a search for Gringo Space one, you'll see the image course graphic with the photographer That's me on the sand dunes there and you can click on that and that will get you to the home page I've put that is one of my favorites so that I could come back here very quickly. And for those of you who want to ask questions and I encourage more questions, we need more questions coming in. There is a yellow tab where you can click here to add questions and then you're gonna get a little submission form as to the question in some other little bits of data right there. And so I encourage you to please send those in. In the future. We're continuing to look for good questions because if you have a question on something, chances are you're not the only person and so we can help educate everybody. Just going through a few questions at a time. All right, Our first question for today. Let me read this. I want to get serious about taking close up flower pictures. What kind of camera should I buy to get good? OK, and detailed creative shots will only post online, not print. Want lightweight on the big hiker? Okay, I can understand that. That sounds like a good option here. So I'm thinking that you're gonna need a lens that focuses up pretty close, which is something that you're gonna typically find on interchangeable lens cameras. And you're gonna probably need to get something other than the standard kit lens that comes with a lot of cameras. Some cameras do come with some pretty good close up capability. But if you want to get very creative, sometimes you want to get very, very close up. So you want to look to get a macro lens that could go 1 to 2 or 1 to 1 life size. Now, if you're only posting online, you probably don't need to get the biggest fancies thing out there, So ah, full frame camera will definitely work, but it's gonna cost you more money. You can get an A P S C size sensor, which is what a lot of the kind of mainline canon and Nikon cameras are. They both make full frame, of course as well. But I think you can also get away with the micro 4/3 system, which means Panasonic and Olympus. Now, any of the cameras are gonna be good enough for doing these type of shots. It's just a matter of how much money you want to spend and what sort of extra features that you might want to have. And so the key thing here is getting that macro lens. And so if you wanted to keep things really small, let me give you a couple of options. The Olympus om D e m five mark to Yes, I do have that memorized Isa Great, really small camera. And I am currently not remembering all the Olympus macro lenses that are currently available. But you could get Olympus or the Panasonic macro lenses that'll work on that camera, and that would be a very small package. Another good system that I think is very small would be like the Fuji X t 20 and they have a 60 millimeter macro lens. They may have some more macros coming out in the future, but that would be a really good small system. That's not gonna be too heavy. Probably a pound and 1/2 in weight if you're not bringing any other lenses with it. All right, Ali, thank you very much for that question. Next up from Michael Brown, Hamri, I'm trying to break the habit of auto focus, but my images keep coming out blurry. Is there anything I can do to help improve the sharpness of my shots without the aid of auto focus or post production? Okay, so thank you, USA, That was Michelle. I'm sorry. Man said that wrong moment ago. So, Michelle, you're not the only one that has struggled with this. There has been a change in the way SLR Zehr made and the focusing screens that are used in them. And back in the days of manual focus, the screens were of a different style in nature that were easier to manually focus. And now cameras are actually more difficult to manually focus because they needed to make adjustments for him to make him easier to auto focus. And so they had to change the type of screens that are in the camera. There are a few cameras still out on the market. When I say few, I might mean one or two that you can actually change the focusing screen out of the camera and put in a special screen that makes it easier to manual focus. Now there still are some manual focus cameras out there, notably like a which has what I would argue, the best manual focus system, which is a range finder system. And you basically look for vertical lines and you get him tow line up. And it's very easy to do that with your modern digital camera. A lot of times you're having to put the camera into live view and magnify the image so that you can see it's sharply and focus. I have found this easy to do when I'm on a tripod and very difficult to do when your handheld, because the camera is constantly moving around and so it is very, very hard to do, and so there are some other features that you can turn on that are available in some but not all cameras, namely, focus peaking, which is going to show you a highlighted area shimmering in a particular color. It might be red or yellow or blue or something like that, and it shows you where you are focusing, it's Ah, it's not as accurate as, say, the like of cameras, but it's not bad. And so try a couple of those things. If you are doing it from a tripod, it's gonna be a lot lot easier if you are doing it hand held. It is really tough if you're shooting with shallow depth of field, and I do recommend autofocus in most of those situations. Next up from Tom Bailey, Are there any good cameras that will take video and stills at the same time? Well, obviously there's lots of great cameras that do one or the other, but doing both at the same time. Now that is a particularly challenging task, and the way that most companies do this is they shoot video and they allow you to pull one frame from the video. Now, a few years ago, HD resolution, which was by 10 80 was the most that we were getting. Now there's a lot of cameras that are shooting four K. A lot of Sony's and Panasonic's are going to be probably the best one. Sony and Panasonic. They do a lot of video cameras and still cameras, and Cannon does as well. But they haven't been throwing those features in a lot of their cameras for some reason. And so if you were really wanted to take great video and stills at the same time, I think Panasonic maybe the best way to go. If you're looking for a full frame cama, you can pull the stills from a Sony and do pretty good because it's shooting four K, and it's often times shooting on the full frame of the sensor depends on the exact model that you're looking. But it's a very challenging thing to Dio, and I kind of thought that this was the future of still photography. But I'm pretty pretty sure that that is not the case, because when you shoot video, you are limited by what shutter speeds you can choose and a number of other factors as well. It also gets to be very cumbersome if you just shoot 10 seconds of video at 30 frames a second and then need to go search through and download all 300 of those individual frames. But if you do want to do that, I would say, Look at Panasonic and Sony. They got the best systems going right now. Next up from Christie Heart. I'm currently using a Nikon D 3200 and love it, but fear that it may be limiting the quality of my work. That's a Nikon D 6 10 Adjust to both DX and FX lenses. Is Canon better than Nikon? Okay, you got a lot of questions in here. Some pretty hot button topics in here. First off, the D 3200 is kind of an entry level camera from Nikon. It's a perfectly acceptable camera. There's lots of cameras that are more expensive, have more features, a lot of other fancier stuff. But the quality of images that you can get from that probably surpasses any pro camera from 10 years ago, and so you can get great quality photos with that camera. End of story. Now there are hiring cameras that can do even better these days. The Nikon D 6 10 does adjust to both DX and FX lenses. DX or the crop frame lenses and FX are the full frame lenses. Now, when you put a DX lens on the 6 10 you're not going to get the full image area. The 6 10 I believe is I think it's 24 megapixels. When you put a DX lens on there, you're gonna get somewhere around 16 megapixels, and so you're actually going to be worse off. Then you would be on the D 3200 cause it's got all its pixels packed right into the area that it needs to be. But you could use it as a transition camera using your DX lenses. Working in FX lenses, as your budget will allow, is Canon better than Nikon? That's a hot question in general. I think it's easy to say it's a bad question in the sense that they're both very good camera companies and what I have seen being in the business for years is Nikon was better than Cannon and most things, and then Canon was better than Nikon. And then Nikon was better than Cannon can. It's better than I kind of that nightgowns better than Cannon. And that's just for one individual model level. If you go up a step or down a step, it could be doing the exact reverse. And so you'll see everybody going nuts on the Internet when one company introduces their latest greatest product and they're the best company. And then all of a sudden somebody else does something. No, now they're the best company. And so you got a lot of people who are viewing. The grass is a little bit greener on the other side. I would be happy with either Nikon or Canon. They're very, very good. And there's some other brands out there that are also doing well. Sony's coming along really strong food. She is out there and a swell as a few other companies that are doing very good. But Canon and Nikon have been competing for a long time, and it's a neck and neck battle with them. And so, no, no true favorite here, John, I need your advice. I take animal portrait. It's mainly show dogs, and I'm known for my partner. It's I want to get better with the actions, thoughts, what are the keys to getting my camera set up properly, and that's from a net. McDonald. Okay, so if you're doing portrait's of dogs there, hopefully not moving around too much. And if you want to get into action, the first thing you're going to need to do is get your camera's autofocus system change from the single shot to the continuous mode. And the second thing you're gonna need to do is probably not just use the centre focusing point or an individual focusing point. You're gonna want to look for a group of points. Now it's going to depend on how big the dog is, the framing what other distractions there may be. But I typically like nine focusing points, so it's kind of a patch right there in the middle, and maybe I move it to the left or to the right, depending on what the dog is doing. And that's what I try to keep right on the dog's face as it's moving around. If it's a very small dog or if it's moving erratically, maybe you need to have a little bit larger area. If it's one of the dogs doing the agility test, where they're running through fences, and things. You don't want to choose all the points because they might catch on to some of the apparatus and other things that are out there in front coming between you and the dog. And so that's why I'm saying you don't want the smallest one because it's hard to keep it on target. You don't want the largest cause it's gonna pick up other stuff. So you want a medium size target, and it depends on which camera you have as to what that medium sized targets going to be. But those two things the continuous focusing, medium sized target and lots of practice. This is really difficult stuff to do. But the cameras have made it a lot easier than back in the days of manual focus, which is when I learned to do this on and it was very, very hard. Now you're able Teoh get a lot of shots, the other one little thing. Turn on your motor drive. A lot of cameras will have a continuous motor drive 357 10 frames a second, and you're gonna want to shoot a short burst of images when you think the action is at its best. And so if they're going to go over a jump, for instance, right? Is there getting near the jump? You shoot a burst for maybe one or two seconds. You don't want to shoot too long. Those are just images you're gonna have to go through and delete later on. And so that's the basics of action photography with the animals. So thank you, Annette, for that question and thanks all of you for sending in your questions. If you do want to send in more questions, you can do that on the one hour photo bundle page and click that yellow tab. Fill out the form and send me your question and it might be included in an upcoming version of one hour photo. All right, it is time to bring on my guest. Daniel Gregory. Come on, Daniel. Glad to have you here. Report to grab a chair and let's pull up and have a chat. So, Daniel, you are a fine art photographer and an educator. And every once in a while I'm sure you meet somebody who doesn't know photography. And when you tell him I'm a fine art photographer and they go what? How do you explain what you dio? So it's extra is even in the industry. I bump into people like it was a fine art photographer. Then ask me So what? Your real day job So the it's not I don't do weddings. I don't do a lot of commercial work. And so my work is really honed in on a lot of kind of personal projects that then manifest themselves that ultimately the goal for me is gallery work, Corporate collection, museum in photo book. That's kind of my world. I kind of look for in that. All right? Yeah, I know when I went to school because I knew I like photography and I had two options. Photojournalism And finally, for those who like the two official educational path and the fine art was just like, I don't think I'm ready for that one yet. And so the I guess the two parts I'm interested in is how do you market and sell your work and let's let's go with that one first. So in that world of the fine art, I then have a sub niche, and some I kind of love and passion is in historical processes So platinum printing Sana, type what plate and dykes. So the things that were basically the early day earliest days of photography is my interest. And so my niches toe merge basically digital technology into that space. And that kind of gives me some of my marketing because there's not a lot of people doing platinum printing. There's not a lot of people doing something types ATT's scale, and so that that little niche helps me in the marketing piece. But a lot of my marketing is photo reviews. So going and have my work looked at a photo fist photo plus Expo New York galleries show up and submit work there, and then you can submit work to gallery. So it's a lot of its research. I've got to find the right audience for my work, so I have to go research galleries and museums and curators and collectors. And what do they collect, what are their interests and then try to match my work to them? So it's a lot of just boots on the ground, worked like every other photographer does for their names, making my connections, and I So I guess the other half of it is, it seems to me that fine art can be almost any subject that you can come up with. What, what What do you like to do your fine art photography of? So my earliest work was landscape. So out of the Ansel Edward have 64 kind of genre, and then over the years, I've kind of always blood into that natural world. Element is a strong, dominant theme in my work. And then I am enamored with street photography from a study of street photography. And I love the notion of one of I think the greatest power photography is its understanding of time in the manipulation of time and ST work. To me, really is the essence of that because it's a fleeting moment of something more line, form and elements have to come together and then in action has to unfold right, you know, whether we look it, you know, mais l talking about the importance of gesture or Cartier Bresson's The Decisive moment in ST Work. There's just a rawness to it, and so I am inching my way in the industry photography because it's one of those things that on the surface seems very easy. It is one of the probably hardest things I've ever photographed. Well, as you mentioned, all these different types and styles of photography. Okay, The little gear brain in my head. A little section. My brain that's dedicated to gear starts going. Okay, Well, you need this for that in this for that? So it sounds like you work with a large range of gear. I am actually not. I waas interested in it before I started photography. Full time is a career. I was a gear junkie, and I am no longer here, junkie. Oh, congratulations. So I'm actually like I have, uh, like a medium format camera film camera. I have two large format cameras, but they're not the same ones for by five ones. Eight by 10. I have a digital camera and then I have a back up body for that. I do some commercial editorial work at times, and I need a backup body, and then that's it. I don't have I don't collect gear. So when I shoot the street, I shoot the same DSLR on the street as I do. If I was gonna do an editorial piece or if I was gonna do a nature escape and if I with film shooting execs and camera So I don't collect a lot of gear. I found that it was easy for me to blame the gear for my inability to create the work. A question like that. How much Tell Mrs the Gear and the gear is weighted. Not in my world. The gear is pretty minimal in that regard. It really is about vision. And I'm fortunate. I got to work with a number of years ago with William Albert Allard, who's one of National Geographics top photographers, And I was out and we were sitting in a bar, actually, and I was asking Bill like, Well, when you go out like his bill carries two cameras with 35 millimeter lens and 75 millimeter lands. And what if you want to get that shot over there? And it's He's like, Why are you been looking at that? He's like, I have millimeter the world this 35 millimeter. Why are you even looking anything other? That, And it dawned on me that if I trained myself to see through my camera what the world is and that was just a groundbreaking shift for me, like I actually don't need 1000 lenses in along here. I need to train myself to see a 35 millimeter world or an 85 millimeter world, and it's been a huge. It was a huge shift for me. That's a good lesson for everybody. The bag I was, I was told by one of my mentors is I was like, I need a new camera bag goes What's what's the good one to get? They go. That one's nice, but they make this other model. It's a little bigger. He goes, How big it is. You'll fill it like there's another room for a little another lens. I can stick one in there. So thinking back over the kind of the arc of your career, where is it? Where were was it when it kind of started? Teoh, get to where word now? So kind of. Just walk us through your photographic progression. Eso I love. I have loved photography from the time I was a kid, so I had the Kodak 1 10 at the disc camera, and then I mowed lawns for summer and got to buy my 1st millimeter camera. Um and so I I shot all the way through high school and into college. And then probably if I had the only and I would say it's a regret, but only wish I kind of had done differently, as I had stuck with photography at that time. But I bowed to the pressure of get a real job, get a real degree and then spent 20 years in the high tech industry, and I worked for a number of companies and start ups and cool work, amazing work. But I had this constant nagging that something was missing in my life. So where you kind of photographing on the Sino and actually put the cameras away? And then I decided, Oh, I'm gonna go back to photography At that point, I'm high tech history. I'm making a lot of money. Things are great. So I just went out Bottlenecks camera here and I'm like, Great, I'm back to photography and I was like, I don't want to do and this is a kind of transition of digital, and I was a comedy to film because I send all the in front of computer and But I have been a Photoshopped technician for Adobe. And so I knew Photoshopped. So I was kind of in this weird little space, and I decided I'm going all in on film. And so I was shooting 35 millimeter and then I went bought an eight by view camera. Wow. And then the four by five you camera work my way back Way back down. You went to like the power just extreme. What's the heaviest thing? I carry on the most expensive thing I could shoot people who don't know what an eight by 10 camera even looks like. I mean, you can, of course, Google, but how big is it? Um, it's a about that big when you carry it around. How big is the case? The package. When I carry everything, it's about somewhere between 45 £65 off backpack weight. By the time I do the lenses, the film holders water. All the normal things were. And how many images can you shoot at a time when you do that? I carry six plates, so a plate is a frame, so I carry six frames with me out of the from the car and I wander out in the night, come back, and then I have to change the film. So I have 20 film holders, but I have to I could only carry about 3 to 4 at a time. And every Western has a great quote. Nothing in the world was worth photographing is more than 500 yards from the car s. Oh, yeah, when you're I hadn't heard that one before, I was pretty good. Okay, so you got you got in the large format, a format. And then, um, at that time, I was still working and still had a day job. I teach the photographic center northwest here in Seattle. I was taking classes there and just kind of got mawr more extended photography and then made the decision that Oh, I want to do photography full time. And then that took me another probably seven years before I could make that. Wow. Is that in that moment, right? There is a lot of moment that a lot of people can I think, relate to where they may have a full time job and they're thinking, all right, I think I want to do this. And then how long between there and actually Okay, I'm doing OK. I'm not just struggling, basically meeting in the piece that I recognized. And I have ah, my partner in life. Laurie is a writer and an author, and she went through a similar transition and she told me you're going to recognize the point. She's like, I'm not gonna tell you what it is, but you're gonna recognize the point. And And it's funny cause I give people the same coaching now, which is when you think you're giving things up, you're not ready to make the transition because I was always like, Well, if I quit my job, how am I gonna pay for my camera gear or how am I gonna pay the mortgage? And I'm gonna have to give up travel and I have to get going out to eat all the time. I'm taking all this stuff and then all of sudden, one day, it was like, Wait a minute, I'm getting to do all of this. So not that transition from give up. So what was there and then? And it's not been easy. I mean, running a business is not easy and the things that came up. And I was fortunate that I paid attention and all my job, so I knew a little accounting. I knew enough to find an accountant and find a lawyer and outsource that. But it was running a business was not not small and not easy. And there's days where it's not easy, and it's not what I thought it was ill. Just go take photographs every day. It would be great. And it's like, No, actually, the photography in some ways is the least part of the word, because I've got to put boots on the ground. I've got to go spend time. I gotta find client. I got to do all that work that every other business does. Um, and so for me, because of my love is in photography, that was The other thing I realized was that everything that was in service of my visual creative act was in service of my photography. So when I talked to a gallery that was photography, if I went and met with a book publisher, that's it was all in service of the visual creative act that was a big shift for me as well was. I didn't have to always be shooting to in fact, be a photographer, right? One of the questions I have asked a number of other guests on the show is what percent of your time is spent photographing? Uh, of course of a year. It's probably injury work related hours. Probably the actual shooting itself is probably 20%. That's actually pretty hot. Yeah, pretty good. Um, and the only reason it's that high is the things I do require. Like if I'm doing what plate work, I might have to shoot multiple times like to get what I want. It sounds like it's a slower process this in. So rather than going out to some corporate business meeting, banging off the shots in 10 minutes and then you know there's nothing like a just the development of Ah, platinum print, for example, is 20 minutes of time in wash bath to get to the point of one print. Being done is an hour, hour and 1/ of exposure development, washing, and that doesn't include the time I've actually taken the photograph. So just to get the prints and rice is a little slow process a lot of work on that. So when you were, you quit your job and you're trying to make this photography thing work out. What was kind of a key thing that happened or you realized or change of direction or something that is finally got you to where you are now, There anything? Is there anything you know, I, uh I was a senior level manager of a company, and way eventually got tour. We were like this with some management, and they let me know one day that I don't work there anymore. So I got laid off and it was in the decision. I came home and okay, my partner Lorries like, Oh, this is great. You finally get to do what you wanted to do and, you know, and I had mentioned on social media and some of my mentors called up when they're like, Oh, so it sounds like that step. You don't really have that excuse anymore. And so that that piece was the kind of push I needed in So people like over you better You got laid off and I'm like, No, I'm not sure. It probably heard at the time you were stung really. I mean, it sounds like we walked in some of the same shoes because I got laid off from a job as well. And I'm like, Oh, this is terrible. And then it kind of forced me out and struggle around. And if you if you if you get lucky or you follow the right places, you'll you'll end up in the right direction. Yeah, and so, yeah, I was just listening to that. That voice is like, Don't go get the other job. And so I told myself, I'll get myself a couple of years for this. And so then I called every photo mentor I have and I'm like, OK, I'm in. What do I do? And every one of them to down the line was like Put multiple irons in the fire, put multiple irons in the fire because you'll make money on a little bit of this to make a little money off. That a little of that and you're trying to figure out what you actually want to be and how your business is going to evolve. And so don't turn down work. And I'm like, I'm not doing a wedding like Fine, that's your bucket on. And so, yes, I've done You know where I was. Ah, fine art photographer. You know, I do head shots now. I've done corporate stuff. Do some architectural work for firms. I've done different things. And what schools? It's a one of things one of my clients have said is they like my approach because I don't approach things as a commercial photographer. Would I come in with a fine art, I which I didn't really ever think about. So I come in on Michael. This is kind of weird, funky angle. And I could do this and kind of and they're like, Oh, that's kind of cool for their brand. And so I don't work for everybody. But for certain clients, I work pretty well as a partnership because I just come from a different approach. If I'm not interested in the room shot, I'm like, Oh, that's a cool little detail over here and I can get the room. But I also want to get that plug is interesting. And the color on that wall is the streak is interesting and it gives them a different look. So I found it starts to blend together but yeah, but I've got about a little iron tonight spoke and I walked around the circle. That's kind of nice. I know. I know. There's probably a lot of people who dream. I consider photography is the second most popular, desired career. First would be rock star. I think pretty much everything you like. You want to be the next big jaggery. I'll do that. I'll do that. But I don't usually sometimes younger, but usually, but I'd say the time somebody turns or 50. It's like I just want to be a photographer because you get to pursue your own interest. But beyond just having an interest in photography beyond being talented and photography, you need to find out what aspect of photography you're talented at, because are you good at running the business? Are you good at talking to people? And yeah, and the I think that for me was part of one of the other lessons is I could not. I would look at people's images, and I'm like, I understand how that person makes a living as a photographer because they're photography is not that good. And but then I realized what actually matters Mawr. If you're in the going to make a living as a photographer is, you're good at business. You're good at making contacts. You stay up with your contacts. You stay on top of your accounting. You go back to your contacts like they don't come and get you. You go and remind them that you're still there, right and know that relationship building was huge. And I have, ah, associate who runs a PR firm. And he told me, He's like every day you have lunch with somebody different everyday. You call them every email you send. He's like that your business. You're in the business of serving people and helping them meet their needs. And so as long as you remember that you're in the service of others because it doesn't matter if it's photography doesn't matter for PR accounting legal. As long as you remember that, you'll be fine. And that is really stuck with me. So yeah, my business and people ask me I'm make a living as a photographer, but I'm in a relationship business that's ultimately what I mean. Is it really think of it? Never you a one man band or do you have a one man band. My wife, Lori, and I have, Ah, a company called Silly Dog Studios. And so she's a writer. She's under that one of that creative umbrella, and we do workshops and creativity, workshops and things like that. And then I have about three different assistance I work with. When I do an assistant, I call them up and they show up and are happy toe carry heavy things for me. And they're all incredibly gifted photographers. And so it's great to have them around because they're collaborative. And so for me, it's always I want to be a collaborative, creative environment. So the more people in the room would collaborate, the more they share, the more ideas they have, the better. I don't really care about the credit for anything. I just want some really cool to come out for the client for myself. Okay, excellent. All right, let's take a look at some of your images and maybe you can help guide us through some of the questions on this. And so street photography. Yes. Now I'm noticing very high contrast here. Eyes This film development is this combination of it? Yes. So this is. Ah, name is it was originally conceived of when I was thinking about printing it in platinum. So it was actually a digital capture of color, converted to monochrome and then process toe look as close to my film stock is possible. So I have a number of things I do in photo shop to attempt to simulate my film because my now we'll have a little ego thing that we play with. One of my ego things is I have film photography. Friends were a little snobby about film, but I love being able to lay down to me to side by side and have people not know which is the digital in the film. So I worked really hard to get my stuff process the same. The thing that does from a stylistic standpoint for me is that keeps the style consistent. So it's not like I have a digital body of work in a film body. So this was processed. It was also high contrast cause it was I remembered the scene being really high contrast. So it's a night shot. The lights come on. Almost all the ambient light who disappeared. It was all artificial light. And it was just These were really bright street lights up there at the top. So our lights above the restaurant and the thing that caught my eye was the girl with the dog. Yeah. And so I was like, Okay, so there is the girl with the dog, and as long as she doesn't move, and then I wanted a little bit of sense of chaos around her, so I just dragged that shutter down to about 1/15 of a second, okay? And so that was able that I was able to hand hold that, get her still and have that little bit of blurring there. Um, that's beautiful. I mean, it's nice framing your eye goes right to her because she is the sharpest thing in the frame. So what do you What? Your thoughts on using a digital camera, shooting in color, probably raw, and then converting it to black and white. Is it Does that do a pretty good job for you? It does. And there is a There's a lot of information in there. And the key for black and white is you've got to start to see tone, not color. And if you. Beauty of the raw file is in the analog world. I have to put filters in front of the camera to get that film to respond, to build contrast. But in the digital world, because it's captured all that color, you know, formally, I can impose. Decide. Oh, God. If I had had a red filter here, I would have pushed the contrast this way If I had used a blue filter would have gotten this. So having that color information actually gives me some additional control right after the fact and for the street work, it's really nice because sometimes I don't have that time in that flash of instance to make that change, they are using an SLR or a mirror list for this SLR. Okay, I was asking because on the mirror less cameras, you could now turn the E V f into a black and white. And so you get to view the world in black and white, and I have I've done that a little bit, but I haven't done it a lot. And so I don't know if that would help me in shooting black and white, because then you get the problem with an SLR is you see the world in color and then you have to do that mental thing which good photographers air good at doing. And I unfortunate. While I'm fortunate marriage because I came out of the film world, I don't have a choice, like I just learned to see that way. But for a lot of my students now, when I'm working on my digital black and white classes, whatever, I encourage them to put their J pegs into monochromatic so raw file still got the color information. But they're seeing that thumbnail in black and white. If they're camera will let them see a merely as well let them see black and white anything to help them start to see. Oh my gosh, that green apple in that red apple are the same color. Tell black In my world that tone is the same. How do I separate those? How do I push and pull? Those is really key to ultimately get in us to get to the story we want, right? And just for somebody who might be kind of new out there made, just explain that one little thing when you shoot raw in your camera. You're going to get all the color, all the information from the tones when you shoot, but you can put your camera in black and white and raw. It'll show you black and white, either on the back, your camera, your LCD after you shot the image or live you. If it's a muralist camera so you can shoot, see black and white, bring it home. What happens? I use light room, and it is black and white when it brings up the preview. And then when the full image loads, it's color. And then I got to go change it back to black and white and then start adjusting it to make it look right for that. Excellent. All right, so let's move on to the next image here. And I'm thinking this is four by five or eight by 10. This is eight by 10. Whole thing is actually platinum. There's a couple of the Siri's Europe. This is a platinum palladium print, Uh, and this is one of my absolute favorite bodies of work. That this comes out of it was from a body of work called Immersion, one of things I recognized in the history of photography was a lot of landscape photography was what I considered observational of the environment was pretty pictures of the environment, and what I wanted to try to do is to start to put us in the environment, to have a more connection and then also a dominant theme in my work is the metaphor that nature uses because I believe nature she uses us, is amused as much as we use her. And so she's always playing with things into me. When I saw this wheat field in the police, this was rolling waves. It was just waves, and the waves are coming in and crashing in them, pushing up on the beat. So I just wanted a slight bit of movement and then that long, kind of run of the beach, the back to the hills, the piece off in the distance. And it was from the beginning. It was for a platinum palladium, Siri's, and so I had that thought in mind. But it was really the weeds, probably 3.5 4 feet off the ground, and I am skimmed the cameras almost into the weak field, and I was able to use the movements of the 10 camera to control perspective, even playing right so you could get that depth of field from foreground background. And for those that haven't had the opportunity to use a four by five camera from the time you I assume we were driving by saw this. How long did it take you to photograph? It was about 35 minutes. About time I got out. And you know what you're doing? Yeah. I got the hammer set up, made a decision about the place of the tripod cameras. Had both with me camera when the lens, then to get all the movements. And then I had to wait for the light in the clouds to shift. So it was a very patient. Peace and the world's upside down and backwards on a view camera GOP. So it's great. It becomes very abstract. The abstraction of light color and for position works very well upset. I wish. I I don't know if they'll ever do it, but I Every time a new camera comes out from anyone on camera manufacturers, I go to the feature request and I want to invert. Don't really inverted upside down. It in the viewfinder. Oh, and so because I think it's a groundbreaking change and how people photograph when that abstraction happens. Yeah, knowing the cameras. Well, I don't think any caring said, I've never seen that on a camera. Try to think of how you It's interesting question, cause it's just so technically easy. Yeah. I mean, it's just a reverse image flip image, you know, flipped it like a passable I did. You know, let me find with that, too. Yeah, Yeah. All right. So, more street photography color this time. Color? Yes. This is in a bar down in New Orleans called the Spotted Cat. And, uh, I this one. It was interesting because the women on the left, I think, make the photograph that gesture movement that comes back. But it was the the quality of light coming off the phone. You know, say, if this picture was taken 20 or 30 years ago, it's like you. Oh, I see you. You stashed a flashlight right there. It's like there's now this natural illumination faces as they are engulfed in the front and in a nightclub. The lights or so colors are up to sin saturated, ever changing with that glow of that blue screen, you can see it in the darkness and on. And I just think they had a really interesting gesture where she's actually looking at his screen. Yeah, but yet hers is what's illuminating. The singing, I thought, was an interesting element. And so they're lost in a world of technology and then the two women to the left or lost in a conversation without the technology. And I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition of who's doing what in what moment, Right? Right now this one's in color and talk about choosing color or black and white for images. What do you what you looking at? Or how do you make that determination? So for me that decisions usually made at the time of the shot, I get a sense of a feeling of the quality of color. Color is incredibly important to me, and the team of my students have ever taken my color class. No, I'm hard core about color in terms of its fidelity in its use and how aids composition and our sense of understanding theory behind color. And so for me, when I see that color is important to the story. The color has to stay when light form and shadow texture become more important. Dominant than it probably drifts in the black and white I have. I'm not most people. I don't have a bad color photograph. Michael. Let's see how it looks in black and white. I don't do that. It's it's either color is informative with story or it's not. And if it's not, then it can go into black and white. Okay, that's good. I got good thoughts there, Same club on. And this one, I, uh it's the shadow on the wall. Makes it any in the history of New Orleans. That's any sort of heavyset trumpet player, right? Right. And so And the shadow. He's actually a little bit of out of focus. I focused to hit the Shadow, and I had seen that Shadow Mo movement happened like, three or four times. I was like, Oh, I got to get that shadow And then I was like, Well, if I just did just the shadow like you lose the context of the environment And so I really wanted to have those in their and the piece I was really watching for is on that wooden board with the signatures on it. That trumpet shadow is just coming up on. I wanted the tiniest bit of separation. Has it just started to come into that? You usually see that. Yeah, no, I mean, I have to admit that I first looked at this photograph and just, you know, the human eye naturally goes to a lighter area, So it's not going to the shadow. And so it's like, Oh, it's a little out of focus. And then the shadow is this, like, happy surprise like, Oh, look at this other little element here that I first missed and I and I debate live, debated long and hard about how much that out of focus was there. And I been working on my own peace with photographers because I've noticed that there's a distinction between something being blurry for composition and something being out of focus and photography Talk about. They're like, I don't like that it's out of focus, but then, like it's blurry and that's kind of cool. And this one to me fell in. The Blur is not an out of focus. I didn't know what I was doing with the camera element. And so and with peace be back. Me, I kind of go back and forth about Was it too much out of focus and but incredibly little light. I mean, there's not much light in the place. And it was not There was not gonna be a Let's go to F eight. Let's get a boat. E had to pick one of the two, and I thought the shot it was more important. Excellent. Well, that's good. That's good. All right, so minimalism here. So I came up with the title for this will cool next to nothing. Oh, that's nice. So tell us about this. So I don't know if you can see it on the screen, but the subtle nuance of color in the sky here is from me, pretty mesmerizing. There is pinks and blues and yellows. There's a tent of, ah, a magenta in there, Um, and then the split on the horizon with the island off there in the ocean, I was a neighbor with a color in the sky. And then how there was this merging of sky and ocean and how there was just this little bit of element sticking out of there. And so it created just in my own concept, a really strong story of our understanding of the ever changing natural world. And I have a body of work that is slowly developing, which is along those lines of us being nature's muse and how she finds forms of us in there. And so this to me, uh, has a representation of somebody sleeping with the blankets being folded up when there's like an arm sticking out or something like that. So it's, ah, reminiscent of something being hidden on emerging in that in our world, nature is somehow captured. But the print for this is all about getting those very subtle tonal structures. There has to be a tough line. It's really tough, and you can calibrate your monitors at home by that description of color and the because the interesting about colors were initially drawn to high saturation first, and so if I put two images up, people always oh, the higher saturating, which is better. But over time we drift to the enjoyment of a more sophisticated, muted palette. And so this is one that, almost like a Rothko painting, this kind of my other. Not that I'm a Rothko painter, but in that sense of when you look at a Rothko painting, you're like, Oh, with blue and orange. And then if you stand in front of it for 234 minutes like holy cow, there's like 10,000 hues and tones of blue and orange. This has the same way when I get it printed right and you look at it, you're like, the longer you look at it, the more color you see changes your palate. And absolutely so this is a platinum plating, platinum prints off of a digital image. And so one of the things like I said, my love, the blending of the two. So this is, Ah, shot. And then I create a digital negative out of that which is basically take the digital file we tone map. What Platinum Palladium canoe In photo shop, we do a pretty weird wonky curve. How do you get from the digital to the analog process? Do you print it out? So it's it's prints on overhead transparency, okay, and then we apply a curve that basically says the percentage of ink of 95% Platinum Inc it's map to 22 RGB value, Luckman, Aussie Value and photo shops. We apply this kind of weird curve, OK, and we get the image to come out. We printed out on Epson printer or a canon printer just prints on over transparency. And then it goes through the platinum plating process. And this one is from This is my sense of irony. This is for my serious metal on metal. So the whole images old, rusted out metal printed on the platinum palladium, which are two of the noble metals in the periodic charts. A little play on a play on words that for that the brush marks around the edge people ask about as well. So that little dark piece, one of the things about platinum palladium in one reason I'm drawn to it from a fine art standpoint. So this is a digital file. One of the people things people argue about a digital, is it? There's this infinite reproduce ability to it, and it's always the same, which is one of the hallmarks of photography. But from a collector standpoint, plan, art collectors and collectors of art like things that are unique. So this strides that line between I can always re create that image to be almost identical, but those brush strokes are done that papers coded by hand. That's how the emotion gets put onto the paper. So we mix the chemistry and we painted on to the paper, and then the negative goes on to that, and then it gets exposed to UV light. And that's what ultimately creates the image. But the broad strokes each time a unique So it's always for I had ever seen. Yeah, I could never recreate that exact image again. Nice. That's good to have that u S o part of the same process here. Same processes up. Uh, this is a platinum print. There's no place him in this one. A buy 10 Negative. This is again. This was carrying a very heavy camera into the woods on finding some ferns, and I really just love how delicate that felt. And so it was one of those things. Like I just nothing had walked in there and nothing had disturbed it. And so I was able to get my camera right at the edge of the trail and photographed kind of down and onto it. when I really just wanted everything to kind of compressing this amid tones and not have really high contrast. And there's a few pure blacks in there. But for the most part, that black that you see in there is an artificial construction of our brains of desire to create. Contrast. Right, So there's detail and pretty much every one of the little dark spots. There's actual detail, and so do you have a You have physical princess. How large? So for this process, the print is the size of the negative because it's a contact print. So this print is actually 8 10 by 10. So that's one of reasons you're using is a camera, so you can get eight by 10. Perfect print. Exactly. And that was the beauty of the digital negative because the digital negative I can print 16 by 2020 24 then I could make 20 be expensive. I'll get what I could make a 20 by 24 platinum Frank, and that allowed me that. That's what really opened the door up because I was. I had small format images that I wanted to do this way, and I wanted something bigger than one inch by two inch. Right. So get into the digital negative really opened up that opportunity. Excellent. All right. And more the same process name or metal metal on metal on metal Yet. And so this is Ah, from one of the world war as well. The forts here in Washington was used for checked protective Puget Sound Channel. And that's a tie down anchor. They would put on one of the big 10 inch guns. They would look with change through there. That would hold the gun in place when it fired. Evidently so. But the texture on the wall is just absolutely Yeah, absolutely wonderful and compositionally. I wanted to play with that top line on the horizontal rule of third. And then that's sweeping kind of curve diagonal. And that's what it was. That juxtaposition of the negative space for those two lines intersected on the edge. Tension is what it had. The placement of the ring being in that lower left corner right now. What type of prince is this? This is a lady, and this is a play the imprint. Okay, Excellent. And so this one is similar to the one we saw earlier. And this is on, uh, meditative statement game quality of color here and this one I have printed in aluminum in two different variations are printed on about six different papers. Wanted to find that perfect color right piece because there really is the the interpretation of the color here in the great Asian. And this is based on the waves Come in and it's received it back. So in the actual print, you can see the undercurrent of its sand underneath. You could just hit hence, of the sand detail. So it's finding that balance I love. I love any photo that shows really good gradation of color, just kind of your. I just kind of moves from one color to the next, and that nice, smooth tone in that we have on the foreground there. I think it's lovely, really nice. So this is one of my favorite street shots. When it's pretty big, there's actually a little bit of smoke coming out of his nose. Yeah, and in ST work, I'm not a person who always goes up and asked a photograph, because I do think that then causes a shift. Sometimes all asked to be if I can photograph somebody. Sometimes I don't. But this guy standing there, so I just kind of help my camera up. And he kind of just gave me a look. Was like, Yeah, that's OK. I took about two frames, three frames, and it gave me this. He's like, you're done. Eso this was in that in that frame sense. And I I have three shots, one without the blue on the left in and I left. That blew him because it's a juxtaposition of the color against the orange. And so that got left in there, but yeah, but now this is a great just. It was a great moment between he and I. A little bit of smoke coming out. I just found it. Really. And obviously very good. Use of colors is not one that I'm guessing you even tried to look at it black. That color really sells it there. Especially the little blue off to the side. Well, excellent. Excellent work. Thank you very much. And with our remaining time, would you like to look at some of the students work? All right. So what I'm going to Dio is talk about your classes for just a moment here Before we get at a keynote, you got a couple of classes here at Creativelive. Uh, describe these real quickly, if you would. Yes, these were eso the introduction to black and white film. We really fun class. They let me actually bring in my darkroom basically, and I got to develop film live. So we cover the zone system and a really understanding of how black and white film works. Seen in black and white How you meet her, how you select a film that actually you processes You could process it at home because a lot of people are digital these days. We talked about how to scan film and then actually had a print digitally. And then the last part of classes. Just a bunch of advanced. I call them Advanced. Ah, mix. But it's filters How to find an analog dark room. How toe Just do a bunch of different things with film, how film actually gets measured. How do we know all those different things? And then the large format classes we I started the very beginning of what's a large format camera. We go through all of the gear and selecting a gear. How to use the large format camera. And then we do an in studio portrait shoot. And then we go out into the field when we actually do a landscape shot and all the different components. That sounds like a good class for anyone who was wanting to get into the retro world. Yeah, they're both great with that. Excellent. All right, let's, uh, make sure that we've got this. So we're gonna go over to the image review before we get to this. Let me just explain how you can submit your photos. It's here. It creativelive that you can do that. You could go to my main of photography class, which is the fundamentals of photography, that class page. And there's something called student work and you can submit your work there. I'm also scouring all my other classes for work as well, but that's the main place that I'm going to look. And so, if you want to submit photos, do so right in there and we might talk about them on an upcoming episode of one hour photo. So let's go ahead and bring up light room catalogue and this 1st 1 is from Andrea and Boy, I'm trying to think of what country this is. And so this is obviously in Paris. I have not been there myself. Have you been there? I have not. So I have not had a chance to photograph it. And so I think the first thing that you've done right issue chosen a good time of day to photograph this. That blew our which is totally not an hour. It's like 10 minutes where the blue is that it is a really good time. And so you've got to get yourself in the right position. What do you think? I I really like the color is absolutely wonderful in that juxtaposition of the blue and the yellow, I think really works with contrast, I also love the reflection that comes along the the front edge. El Sheen on the water. Nice. Uh, what would you say to improve? How What would you have done after you have shot this picture? I would have probably opened my shadows up just a little more to get a little more detail back in behind the behind the water that's coming up. And then I might have brightened that water, that shooting up just a tiny bit because it's an interesting organic element against the man made natural structure. But they're similar enough to me that they have that juxtaposition between a naturally occurring and if the brightness luminosity that you came up there just a tiny bit, I would make that relationship a little bit stronger. Yeah, what about you? I'm thinking I the area over on the right. The brighter blue is kind of a lesser area, and I'm thinking either I need to move left to get the pyramid to block a little bit of it or move it or move the camera to the left and get more building in there. So I would just play around with the composition. I think they're there right at the right time of day. You know where the light levels have got in the right light levels there, and so it's just a little bit of playing around composition and the orientation of my right. Got more scion in this guy first the left and that tells you from the sunset toe west that that science is holding off, you know, another two minutes. There she probably would have that blew across the whole skies. Were I right? That's a good point. Good point. All right, well, thank you, Andrea, for that. Next up, we have Ben Thompson, and I'm going to say, this looks like kind of heavy processing on this. That sky doesn't look natural. But then right now in Seattle, we have these forest fires, and this is kind of what this guy looks like right now. Uh, what do you thought? I love the the kind of the person sitting there looking out over the ocean kind of lost in their thoughts. But it feels a little over sharpen to me. And so what's What's happening with that is my eye is trying to grab about three or four different areas at the same time. And I'm losing that contemplating nature of a person in front of the ocean. And so I think if it wasn't quite as sharp, I would figure out what was going on, and then I would be able to come back into the story element there. Okay, Now, you know, one of the things that I don't know is like was did he tell this guy to sit there does this guy just a sitting on the beach? Because if it was his friend, I would say, Sit up a little bit higher so that we can get more of a profile rather than a slightly broken image there. I mean, I like the, you know, the triangle through his arm, his leg. That's kind of nice, But having him a little bit higher up my new a little bit better. Good timing with wave. I like, you know that that curtain of splash of miss there, I think that is good and the sky it looks strange. It looks a little bit on the strange side. All right, Thank you bad. Do you do much night time for talk radio? I do a lot of night time. It's one of my absolute favorite times to photograph, and so it's It's got the basics down. You know, it's properly exposed. For the most part, it's in focus. Um, I'm looking for something. I would like something extra like if there's water, which I'm pretty sure maybe seen some or that water. Yeah, I think that the reflection of the city back in that water, even if it was broken waves because it was a little windy or something. We had, I think, an interesting element there. One of things is with even with the city escape or landscape. I still want some element of a story there. Like, what is my I What is my interest there? What am I captivated by? And so that's the part for me. I feel like I just did a little a little more help in figuring out what is my compelling reason. Because, yeah, I think from, ah, straight of exposure technical standpoint, that's nailed. So now it's just a matter of figuring out what is the what if the signal element that you want to find it for me? I always tell myself, every time im out photographing, I'm gonna photograph that. So I'm gonna get that. I'm gonna nail that, and then what's the next thing? If I'm gonna now give myself a little more freedom, what I focus in and make an abstraction or what I play with the reflection on Lee or because I'm going to do this, I'm gonna have to get that out. I got to get that city shot. I'm only gonna be here once. And then what is the next thing that we come out? So to me, it would be I want to see the next five or six shots after this one on the contact sheet, right of what was the experimentation afterwards? Because it's technically really well done, I think, Yeah, I think it's really good to hone in on your first idea. Just do it as clean as you can and then start just playing with it and find where that those creative juices taking on that It would be interesting to see this with the blue sky from Paris and so that that adds a little element. So if you could be out there during that, that was blue hours. That's a good time. You get a great cloud deck. You get this really kind of creepy cause you're correctives of the lines. You get that glow, and sometimes it ends A weird purple orange. Yeah, yes, with the strange city lights. And have I got to tell you this is one of my favorite images that I have reviewed. I love I love patterns. That's it's kind of an easy gimme on shot, and I don't know where this is, It feels like an Inuit village of like above the Arctic Circle. What do your 1000? I. I love the juxtaposition the white on white and the little kind off pitch that have come about and the texture of the snow, I think, is really great. Um, I would have, I think, tried to maybe play a little bit like not all and try to make sure all the crosses get separated a little bit. There's a little collapse in what that does is it's just flattening out the image. And it's got such great separation where, where they are distinct or were they just touching overlap a little bit? I think just in this case a Aidan shift to the right would have separated all the crosses right because that there's the third cross from the left, which is really intersecting there. And so when I see an environment like this, I love this because now it's up to my freedom of moving left and right up and down to figure out where the magic spot issue and I don't know that they nailed it. I'm not going to say that you did it because I wasn't there. And I don't know how things line up and changes you. Move. There was a huge wall right there. You could make a movie. Yeah, but definitely this is the type of area where you need to scout it out before you. Don't be rushing to take your first photo. You need to walk back and forth and around. Be careful about footprints on the snow because you can't back that up on dso you. Maybe you start shooting from a distance left and right and figuring out with those things there. But I think the lighting, the pattern, even the sky is quite nice in there. On the color wise, I love the warmth of the slight coming in, and then the coolness of the snow in the shadow is still well preserved and looks like it's pretty well color correct in that regard. And so I think it's a really nice having that warm, cool balance is a very good job. There should have put your name on there cause then you could've got credit for this. That's a good job. 35. Yeah, And so this is coming in from Daniel Kent, and this is this is feeling like Washington, but I have a feeling this could be almost anyplace. And we've got some really nice colors going on in here. Yeah, and, uh, got some good cloud action to It's always good to get cloud action for this nature shots. What do you think about this front? Hey Bell being exactly the same height is that arise? That's my only I think thing that sticks out for me is I would that again, like the one we decides caused a compression in the frame. So now my foreground and background horizon collapsed because they're on top of you can't tell where the separation and if that had been just up or down a tiny bit, where that line the back horizon line have been on its own, I think would have really taken up the next level, because you overall, it's nicely done where there is not, it doesn't feel like it's artificially bright. The quality of light the time of day is well respected. The jacks position, the greens and the magenta is is beautiful. Beyond that, that would be only one thing I would want to do is just move that little up and down checking that tripod. And that's so accurate, it makes it can't. It feels like it was done on purpose. But I'm kind of wondering, but at the same time, I have photographs like that where I was so excited with the clouds, everything was doing that It just I looked through it. I'm like, everything's right where it needs to be in. This is captured that way. Yeah. All right, Well, thank you, Daniel, for that next up, Fernando, Gabrielle Vega. And I'm not sure where this is, but it looks like some sort of museum or major installation. Looks like a very cool place to shoot. It's got some interesting elements here. This is hard to shoot, really clean, because there's gonna be city and stuff in the background. Any thoughts on how to deal with that? So I think I see kind of three things jump out at me about the three balls in the front. Then there's the three planters that have the single trees in the back. So that's a slight repetition of pattern. And then there is the shape of the building, which has kind of got that triangle pointed down, but for me, the subject of this was those three balls that are in the front because that's the foreground element. That's the first thing I gotta work through. And so I would probably work on my composition of those three and their reflection in that in that reflection pool and get that position, how I want it first and then figure out how to build the relationship between how those lined up to the kind of spaceship looking building in the background. Because I would want to play the roundness of the balls in the front against the dome with the building in the back, probably and then used the lines as a compositional element to kind of play the squares against the circles. But I would want to try to separate those front a little bit mawr and play with those three balls there. But this is one where some of the one we looked at with crosses I could also see being pinned to pretty easily and being yelled at for being in the waiting pool. And you know, where can you be on the edge and working you? Not so, but that would be the piece I would want to play with us to try to really get a distinct foreground, a distinct ground, indistinct background. All relate to one another. But allow me to experience them a separate pieces. And right now I kind of feel like the two balls on the right in the point of that building coming down there in a weird intersection. Yeah, so I'm struggling with that little spot, and then that also hits almost on a rule of third Junction Point. So my highest kind of gravitate towards there and try to figure that piece out a little separation there, I think, would really think this is a really a hard visual puzzle. And I gotta tell you, my mind is just going completely different right now. And I'm just thinking that there's got to be some just fantastic abstracts coming down here. It's just with the color and the texture of the water, and I obviously can't play around with position and stuff. But down in here, there's there's gonna be some interesting things, and obviously I'm not doing it justice right now, But the color and the texture that water has some. It's a completely different shot. It's not the same shot. Better. Something like that. But I think that water that pool water really interesting elements in there. That was really nice. And so you're on your on your way. So very good. Thank you, Fernando. Next up, Franklin. Roman. And so we have done too much portrait photography in here, but I think very nice use of black and white and lighting on this. Yeah, beautiful towns. Their skin tones look great. How would you print this? Uh, I would brighten it about, uh, probably not quite 1/4 of a stop that will separate some mid tones a little bit more on. And then I would want Probably print that on printed on exhibition fiber, probably on absent paper. It's got one of the It's got a really beautiful deep D max. The new Legacy papers do as well. It would also look beautiful on Hannah meals. Photo rag. The photo rack holds the atonality structure of black and white. Really Well, the one thing I would probably do is bring a grading and across that top lift. And I would just dark in those highlights back there, even though they're kicked out of focus I'm on her, and then I mop in that upper left corner and I start to get to the edge of the frame. I can start to get out of the frame. So just dark in the upper left corner, a tiny bit, right? We have in tow brighten the whole image. About 1/ of a stop from and then, yeah, photo rag paper will be beautiful. Good. Thank you very much for that. Well, I think we're gonna have to cut it short here. Right. Thanks a lot for being a part of this. It's always great getting everyone's opinion on different ideas for photos. Thanks a lot. Everybody for tuning into one hour photo will be having another episode every month. We're just gonna keep adding to the collection. So thanks a lot for tuning in and check us out next time around.