Researching Your Business Landscape
Working ahead into doing this business landscape and actually working through with one of our participants that you guys here in the studio and at home can get a sense of the process of how you can be doing the market research eso I'll be let's see oh brands or other people that you admire that's another piece you could add to your self portrait okay so the market research really is how to find the clues to fill in your landscape on I know we talked a little bit about that yesterday of like where to find that information so places to look could be no websites magazines newspapers online doing when I call peering at your peers your competitive research I'm not going to go into black real real specifics because this market research peace depends on your industry and field butt out we'll talk through just some ways that you could maybe find some general information and then when we bring nathan up to go through an example that will hopefully illustrate how you guys could maybe do this for...
yourself okay it's kind of trying to balance all these different things given the environment of where we're at today okay so it's hard to see here but one way that you can start kind of gathering information is by doing what I call this detective bulletin board and so if you guys have been collecting information maybe about your competitors like if you have you know, share intestine dorie when she's going to come on later this afternoon, she has a yoga studio, so I'm not sure would be interesting to ask her, you know, if she did some market research about where to open up her yoga studio and maybe looking yoga studios around so you can kind of do the lifg case the joint thing of like going and checking out other people's locations if you have physical location and writing down what's working what's not working so you'll see here they're sticky notes and exercises explained in the book, but basically like pinning up physically like on a board, maybe collateral like brochures, business cards, things like that flyers and then writing on a pink post it note no what's not working right? What do you not like about this? And on green what's what's working what would you like tio take from that not copying brakes were not about copying it's about what can you learn from that and how to make it wars so it's kind of a way a right brain visual way tio gather information in a physical way. I know we do a lot of research online and it can be very overwhelming, but this way it's kind of a visual way to have it all up here and then kind of sort through that makes sense yeah okay cool we're not going to do that here but I just wanted to give you guys that as a tool for those of you at home you have maybe the more luxury to do that so if you want to start clipping things doing searches on google but some places to find information about your industry could be obviously google and there's google alerts that you can sign up for and search for like key words so I think I had one that was like right brain or creativity and I would just get sent alerts especially when I was writing the book rights I needed to do research so getting clear about like oh what's this latest article about right brain or creativity he's that I can understand who else was talking about that topic or to notice like oh, the trend about you know, like the maker trend is really hot right now so all of that kind of feeds into understanding the market so you see how you fit in the landscape ok? Um the other piece that fits in with the market research is how big is your market? You know, how do you find out those numbers? And I'm sure folks online might have some of those questions you can look at, you know, census data and all of that for if you're doing more the traditional plan he probably will need some of those like specific details but for most of us here, just taking a swag would be great and so it's just a matter of understanding it is my market more local, you know, like for yoga studio or, you know a hair stylist you're going to need people physically there so understand like, ok, how many people in my target market are in my city or town versus if you have an online business, you know, that's more international, right? So then if you are understanding your audience, he has it hundreds of thousands tens of thousands million's that's going to help you understand where to focus your marketing budget and all of that okay, so questions on that you're no okay, so nathan, do you mind coming up here with me? No. Okay, great so long tells me I don't have a choice waken always say yes or no, but I know you are your game. What we're going to do is help you fill this out so that we can help you get a sense of your landscape and in the process hopefully give you guys a sense of how you might be able to do this for yourself on dh for the folks you know in studio you khun b doing if you have ideas for yourself, you might want to be filling it out for yourself on and then for those feel online the same thing also for those of you online we would be very grateful if you know we're coming across like we want to look up something you guys have computers in front of you so maybe you can help be our brains and research things for us so nathan, why don't we start here with what makes you stand out what do you do? Well, we just kind of did that this is self portrait exercise that would help for me describe when you kind of talk to me or do you want to write? Um yeah, why don't you write me better republican read my hand right? We'll see how well I do um let's see what makes you stand out? I think that so these might be in positive words that I received yeah exactly creative direct um confident um compassionate fair intense, open minded and I don't know what if there's one word for this but I love to delegate and share responsibility so I like to empower the people around me rather than make all the decisions myself almost sounds like what you do well, in a way yeah. Delegate sorry. What was the other party? Said impound power, right? Some others an eternal optimist so no matter what news comes down the road I can spin it and see it as something positive okay or learning opportunity so for the folks these sound like we don't we've just met nathan and right and yet we could be like yeah I see these things and you yeah I do yoga well does that count yeah I mean I think that goes that piece of the you know open minded mindfulness piece um anything else in terms of what makes you unique and especially as it relates to where wanting to go with this new business? Well, I've experienced divorce personal experience you know, I think that's pretty big yeah so not only my own personal experience but very curious about others other experts others who've had experiences with divorce and I've done a lot of, uh listening post divorce personal experience with divorce and then also this whole thing about your sons I'm like parenting your son's story that co parenting is a huge issue we can come back here when here okay cool. Um since he said that you've been listening to your customers maybe we can jump here and what do you do know about what their issues are, what their needs have been? Yeah, well, a lot of the idea really was born out of kind of post divorce stating getting back into the thing and meaning a lot of other women who, uh we're divorced and hearing from them what the experience was like and how isolated and lonely and overwhelmed they felt and I kind of describe it as ah cataclysm so you know, the active divorce is a gigantic wave that upends your life and changes everything and your perspective and what you thought your future was going to be. So I think that's, you know, that's a it's, a it's, a negative it's a negative experience if you don't have ways to kind of manage it and connect so customer needs, I feel like our connection is important, but there's something else you just said about, you know, they may not be sure what's next, so customer need is figuring out what's next, right? Right, right, right, yeah, what to do? And I think that is at multiple levels there's like the even logistics like what needs to happen to make this, like official right? And then also the what needs to happen with the kids? What needs to happen emotionally on many levels, right? And I think what happens a lot is the emotional needs get for gotten right and left out and there's so much there's so much logistics right to deal with and so much depression that it's easy to forget taking care about yourself and what happens when they don't take care of themselves spiral into depression they're not able to serve themselves were not able to serve their children and it becomes a whole kind of dig it dig a hole for themselves and this happens with guys too, and I've talked to lots of guys about it as well, right? Right, so customers are actually men and women here absolutely I think customer needs and other one is expression there needs to be a forum to kind of speak about divorce in a very matter of fact way without any shame or stigma um and openly, which is great because going back to what makes you stand out your compassionate, open minded nice fit great, I think this is really awesome for stabat customer is I'm sure there's even more to do there that let's maybe move on yeah, okay, competitors and so this I'll just speak teo, you know, there might not be another company doing exactly what you're doing there, maybe even books or program, you know, so think of competitors kind of broadly of who's helping to fill the needs here like even just like therapist comes to mind is possible competitors, right? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, is it bad that I don't see any of them as competitors? I attach that label because on nobody's quite doing this so it doesn't feel like their competitors, it feels like they're I would call them expert it's great and I would like to integrate them and that's really my perspective to share that I was kind of using more of that kind of framework but it really is being able to look outside of yourself and seeing what are other people who are sort of filling that need what are they doing so that you could understand and build from that or even have strategic partners from that right? So how about it lists mountain? All right, well, I know that there's I know that there's two like facebook sites around divorce one I think it's called divorce hood um one is called divorce divas on maybe the audience out there you guys find something for anything and let us know that would be super helpful on that's great, you know those air some ladies out there that are starting to, you know, communicate and connect and that's I feel like that's awesome. I don't really see that as a threat obviously there's a ton of experts in the field of a counseling right? And psychologists and lawyers mediators right. Okay, great. So what are these guys doing? Well, they're taking one particular issue and they're focusing on it and they're serving people who, uh are going through divorce. And when you said specifically so for example accounts there will deal with the emotional aspect of a divorce on attorney will deal with the legal but right now the logistics how would you be different what divorce cafe is going to be is a central hub, so we're going to bring together all of these resource is as a one stop a zoo, a one stop web site that not only offers resource is, but we're going to conduct interviews and have webinars with these experts, so we're going to serve the experts in a way that they're not being served now, as far as reaching a customer base, and we're going toe incorporate a lot of rich media features, so you'll see that it's like, ok, those are actually the opportunities, right? Because they're able to do their thing while, but you're able to bring them together in a one stop shop doing that you're kind of bringing all of these together, right? That's the plan that we that's the prank question from online questions, but folks are first of all, anything are saying thank you so much for going through this example for you is really helpful for people, but they are looking for sites for you. Great research for you, yes, so the first one, if I'm dreaming big, is a divorce party planner, the worst party planner dot com and I have heard of this before way also have some more sights we have divorce care dot or ge and then there's ah ah, an article on on break breakup and divorce at daily strength dot org's that's like a support group I missed the second one to divorce care dot org's thank you and then the third line and then there's a support group uh on daily strength dot dot or ge daily strength ok uh thank you so let's just fill in the barriers piece really quickly and so when you think about the's experts or other folks kind of helping in the way what what are some of their barriers so things that make it hard for them to serve the needs of the customers that could be financial could be they don't have certain information or skills or infrastructure so their own individual barriers and their business or what might be a barrier getting them onto this team their own barriers in there business well, I think probably exposure and marketing is a challenge for anybody who's in business or has a service to offer um and then within that framework of marketing it's reaching their target audience okay, maybe you know, updating their content what is it that they're saying and how is it changing? Okay, so it's interesting that I'm hearing ethan is that you actually have two subsets of customers you have the customers that end users of the content right? You have a great understanding of and that's a pretty rich audience to accept men and women there's people in different phases he also have customers of these experts right here you wanted to bring in a strategic partners you're helping them to overcome this barrier to then relate to the resource is interesting to see how it kind of all fits together, right? Yeah, yeah. So you're going to need to attend to the's different audiences in a way? Yes, yes, please. And arrest totally missed that. And you feel like that was really important? Do you mind every month re making that connection again? Totally. So in listening to what nathan saying about his business landscape, you know, we know that he's jane, this divorce site and he's been talking about his customers being the men and women who are experiencing divorce and who needs it port going through that process as he started talking more about competitors, slash experts slash other people providing that need it's becoming clear that they have their own barriers to help these people right even there helping them. But there are ways that they could help them more, and his opportunity and creating his site is to help actually bridge he's, helping directly these people. But he can use these experts who can then become strategic partners to help with it as well. So he actually has kind of two sets of customers in a way like a weird and user, and then, like the partner right ok yeah thanks so that's what it's how fulsome appetite and talk through I mean totally so I'm not sure how you've been thinking it sounds like you've been thinking of them as kind of experts and but you know maybe there's even new ways that you're gonna be interacting with them are reaching out to them there is yeah for sure so for example even example so there's a really terrific speaker his name is fred luskin and he works at stanford university he's the forgiveness expert he's made it is a phd and he's made a career out of speaking about forgiveness. Well, how about we go and we talked to fred and we say hey fred why don't you do something for our site on why did you specifically talk about forgiveness in the context of divorce and relationships and how that can help parents and both men and women right? So it's that type of approach actually the other thing I'm thinking as you're talking and this is why it's so helpful to like the in conversation about it is there are other kind of media outlets or things like that that cover other things but probably there's a subset who relate so even like, you know, oprah's magazine or parent magazine you know that they may have an article on it or touch on it um but then you're able to take a deeper right right right so there's probably others but just wanted to get you thinking in that direction too well and then let's just fill out for you what might be some barriers here um and maybe you've already started to overcome some of them or maybe what are some berries that you've faced you know like getting the website up was that a challenge do you have players in terms of reaching these experts yeah I mean I would say that a barrier barrier for me personally is focusing and um choosing the right steps in the right order so obviously this is a big vision and encompasses a lot of ancillary uh work and it's a question of prioritizing been organizing right now another barrier is putting together the right team that's related to this yeah I was going to say if you're not that's not the strength you can get someone to help you exactly and so to put together the right team that requires resource is so you know various can also be resource is one of theirs something there you want to catch sure because we need funding yeah I mean it's this isn't something that is just a one man job where I can sit at home and make videos of my kids and sell them our you know our creative arts and craft and sell it this it's going to require big seed funding yeah I mean it's like theirs infrastructure to be built yes which is, you know, part of the reason I wasn't quite sure the right brain business plan was good for what I want yeah, because we need a left brain approach as far ordering the economics and the funding but I'm just seeing how awesome the right brain plan is for this type of yeah what are you getting from this process? Well, it's I mean, this is part of one of my own personal barriers that's kind of the organizing being able to see the big picture uh creating a framework for the big picture that's tangible that's tangible well, we're doing that as we speak right? I mean, even just kind of some of these connections here that you may have already had but it feels like it's become more solid now yes, yeah, they're awesome. So I'm gonna pause there and just see, you know, those in studio in filling out for themselves, which is great just curious for the online audience if they have any more to add to nathan's and then we'll get to incite so if you could maybe filter it for anything more for nathan that be helpful yeah, there are more coming through our I have a question we start with today I have a question is it related to nathan or is it open question it's related the big picture perspective and then they wanted to take it one level higher took over thirty thousand foot level this is jennifer can you please talk more about what opportunities are from a big picture perspective not directly related to this example so she just wants to know more of an explanation of the opportunities yes, I think that's great basically, the opportunities are seeing where like as you're filling out your landscape and whatever results you're having here, seeing what you do well, what do the experts piers competitors do? Well, what might be missing and how can you fill a need? So for example, for the purchase download, I actually haven't example filled out for myself for a product or a program, but I did two years ago the right burners and business video summit and so I I think it was trying to think of how do I want to launch my book when it comes out? And so I kind of filled this out for myself and said like, oh, you know, I have this unique approach I'm fairly comfortable being on camera just good other people have done things like tele summits and things like that that are on the phone my people are really visual, right? And so an opportunity for me was to use more video and so then doing video summit rather than a tele summit, so the opportunity then becomes what is the thing our service kind of that products and service piece comes in here like what is it you're providing based on how these other pieces of the puzzle fit together right? So it probably depends on how she felt it out but it's basically opportunities relates back to at the tangible level products and services like how are you bringing this together so you can feel the need it's hopefully that clarifies that clarifies thank you so much going to more websites very nathan and one is called I am divorced, not dead dot com no no ok on and I didn't go to these sites just quickly toe to check them out and the second one is parents without partners dot or ge and that one says it provides single parents and their children with an opportunity for enhancing personal growth etcetera, etcetera, self confident great thank you guys thank you everyone else out there online really helpful and I appreciate that you guys are doing this on behalf of nathan and it's great practice for you sometimes is a little easier to practice for someone on this point because we kind of get stuck in her hand but I don't know and then like then we find a competitors like, oh my god, they're doing such a better job and then you shut down right it's great that you're practicing this or someone else and then we'll if you ever feel that way for yourself, that's, why we do the business self portrait so that you can feel confident about what it is that you're bringing so you don't let the inner critic overwhelm me when you start doing that external research good, great, you know, there's, another component that we're doing, and I'm not sure where it fits maybe fits under opportunities, but so, like in just launching the website and then facebook and twitter and everything just happening already, when people have been writing to us through the day and last night, we were asking them how they want to contribute to divorce cafe because is very much about user generated content, I think that's an opportunity, yeah, capitalize on that so the user generated content and you're already starting right that process, right? We want people to tell us their stories to either right tha mme or make videos and we wantto engage the user, so we're not just passively serving them, but they're engaged and connected is right great. And so that's actually a great example to like talking at the high level user generated content opportunity there's probably even finer tuning of like what actually that looks like is that monetize herbal or not, but this kind of gives the broad brush strokes to them dig deeper like when we start doing the mullahs map for tomorrow you might be able to pull out specific things from here and go deeper so super cool I love to just do kind of a quick now that we have this all out here I'm kind of checking in on a couple of questions so you know what teams did you notice? You know we don't need to answer all these questions but maybe if any and I'll read them what themes do you notice who's your target market what issues are they concerned about anything new year discovering for you from your peers or any insights? I think we've been talking about some of this stuff just even I don't know if you want to come back and like take it all in and see what else you so I'm I'm sorry what exactly what we did eyes your question basically what other insights do you have now that you take a step back and you see this all in one place and if anyone here in the audience because you've been observing which is great and I want to start bringing you guys into the discussion to in fact some of this feedback here so any reactions to his landscape anything you're seeing missing for him um any other opportunities so it's helpful that work then starting to mastermind a bit with nathan here because this could be something where having other people's perspectives is going to help so you know if something comes up for you great I know that you been kind of wearing two hats doing your own so it's fine if there isn't but just wanted to open that up here yeah, I mean the first insight is it's a hell of a lot of work it's an enormous task and indefinitely what's more a parent than ever is putting together the team yes exactly. I was just going to say that so that's what it's helpful to know this is going to help you start prioritizing right right here's a challenge a big challenge how do you put together a really good team because he want to start off superstrong with you know, smart experienced people passionate understand the landscape but you don't have funding yet and you don't have resource is so that's that's a challenge as well? You know, I guess I have some ideas already great and we'll talk more tomorrow about building the team it might be slightly different for your case but that might give you some it might spark something for you okay, yeah I think there is another layer of detail that you're going to need to do for your particular structure of you're sure yeah okay well yeah I mean other insights is it's just it's really exciting? Like it feels like there's a lot of opportunity it's kind of cool to be on the front edge of the wave that really hasn't been explored yet you know in this way so it's yeah it's inspiring the one thing I'll say about putting your right team together and because you're doing this process here with us doing the right brain business plan you're gonna have a lot of tools and things to help you communicate your vision to the people who are gonna want to be on your team so I don't know having something like this might help them understand what you're after showing them your big vision clash so that's a helpful communication tool for bringing people on board right right so cool yeah and already something we were talking about early this morning is the users that air starting in wait we want a code of conduct you know like we want the discussion to be moderated and so there's a balance between letting people express themselves but as you know divorce is a very explosive subject there's a lot of anger and resentment and so we want some guidelines you know we want to appeal to people's higher self while allowing them to express themselves so I think that's going to be a tricky maybe sensitive mix well well thank you so much for are there more things for nathan yeah if you haven't got your stuff out because I asked people sir in addition tio so many people are saying thank you again for for doing this for us but um let's see, we have running a business creative business is a lot of work because you were saying that so bring in those creative cohorts which bringing in creating that team is so important and lou shack says nathan has loads of you have loads of insights but you are also hard on yourself that you clearly know your market very well we have ah don me who says for the benefit of the rest of us in this question is really important how is divorced cafe going to make nathan money is it going? I think it would relate to many other online content businesses and so I think even just starting here because your website launched yesterday just building that try building that try about getting that community is going to be important and then delivering them value exactly and I think as we get in tomorrow in terms of managing the mullahs will start to be putting some numbers to these different things and seeing where the money's coming in and might be different places. You know, there might be different business models to cool any more from the shot and then I want to just check in with the in studio folks to for nathan and that also we have a little bit of time to check in with you guys on your own self portrait before we wrap up for a break so I don't know that online question about how he's going to make you money and I would think this clarifies a lot for you does it bring clarity to you the's it does the other some different sources to tap for sure now you have a sense of where your first entry point might be further in the lawmaking probably getting probably web webinars and a lot of ways that just even that this awesome creative life model is a good one and I never even thought of it before how you can offer content for free as it's happening and then charge for download because people can always tune in when it's going on so that's pretty serendipitous andi I think maybe I know that you know what? Maybe video I mean since that's my you know, expertise, right, which then relates see it all correlates backs, you know? Well, that's the video experience but yet and I know you know, just already like within the group here, you know, kathleen has already spoken to me and kathy has some ideas, and I don't know if you feel comfortable sharing some of your personal experiences and what you've done around the subject, I'm going to be on your team already putting myself um I started a person I went through the course this year and I started a personal blogger on that and one of the biggest things and feedback that I've got from people reading it and one of the biggest things I've experienced in divorce is like but there is nowhere to talk about these things without like a therapist that you're trying to fix it and work through sometimes you just need to be heard and talked about like what I do it's my engagement ring you know, like what do you do with the picture is like all these things that are, like very practical personal and heartbreaking things that just knowing other people are out there like to support you and that is such a major major service and also trusting making that leap we're talking about that yesterday like knowing yourself well enough tio have the courage to make that leap like if you're like so they do this or not and and all of the social conditioning, their family condition, you know, there's so many facets to this and the one thing that stands out in this thing for me looking at this is I think it has a very strong foundation and that it's you like you hold the space for that so strongly um and so I'm just really excited to see when you go with this thanks yeah happy to support whatever way it can also so cool lucy that happening and that's why it's so important to be talking about your business sharing with others and I know it can feel kind of vulnerable especially when maybe things aren't flushed out yet or it's feeling like oh I need to protect this idea or any of that stuff and yet so much more insight and clarity and confidence happens when you allow yourself to be in that discussion so this is one of those types of exercises you know tio mastermind with and like have your landscape have other people contribute what am I missing into like do it for other people so if we had time and be great to like go through every person's and give that same feedback because you're going to get so many more insight so thank you so much needed really appreciate it thank you and we will take a picture of this so that you can have it okay because there's some really juicy stuff on there for you okay, I want to buy the video great. Um I know we have just a few more minutes before break and I want to just check in here with the in studio audience if anyone wants to share one of their landscape just to give it voice here we obviously won't be able to go as much detail but it might help to just speak aloud to it kathy j dennis wanted to participate e about this told me um so the the one thing that I am finding that's really amazing is that it's developing really resonant action sub so because that's, exactly really resident and that's just like a total game changer for me. So because before it was like, you would go, like, what actions do we need to take but not have it be grounded in anything and then write the end that tizzy of, like, a yeah, and there was no, like right or wrong around it are judgment around them because it's my creative so like because it's me and so it's beyond that hole is the market going to like it? Or is it it's like, no, what can I do to serve right the market? Could I ask you maybe what one or two actions are that you're going to take so we can get some accountability? Yeah, intact nathan, about reading on the divorce, being a team which is like a side thing, but, um, I'm meeting with the interestings and meeting with um, so what I really want to do is kind of take this like mindfulness massage, which turns out to be a spa trend for twenty thirty eight, which is what I do but it's really called cranial sake girl but it's still the words are there the mindfulness massage on dime meaning with so what inspired me to do is kind of sketched out the plans of like how to train people in this and how to train them not only in like the business small that I've applied for my practice but also meeting with a a new instructor he's also an md on wednesday and so talking with him and here he does the certification so ok kind of studying up that outline to talk with him about it and cool so you're wanting to train other people on how to do this possibly something came out like really solidifying my model of what's right successfully for me? And then I asked him add a couple more things until like, my model that test that out but then looking at kind of teaching that around nice and you've already got things scheduled that are happening gaffes that research that further great things can t j that's us? So this is a super cool process and they loved doing it on the visual yeah escape that really works for me. I agree I see the other the competitors as other experts and I actually entered this world of as a partner with them. You know, that makes me since I entered the business world partnering with them so now I have unlike nathan, I have both customers and partners, so my action says it would be helpful for accountability I've really struggled tio anchor my my time to work on a book that I'm writing and from that book I'll be teaching a workshop that ties in everything that I that I think that I see people really needing help with so I guess my action step is the same as it's been, but I'm just saying it out loud to another group of people so they can be like, did you take the time so thirty minutes a day usually thirty minutes trans easily into few hours was just starting that thirty minutes and not letting the current of like, oh, but now you've got blood level on the email box can sweep you away so just starting with thirty minutes a day every day during the week to write great I think that's great think another way they bring even more concrete nous to the accountability is so this is for working on the book. Yeah, ok, you might even want to find an accountability buddy to say by the end of the week, I'm going to send you my draft in whatever form it is doesn't you know what it means that somebody you're actually delivering something to somebody you know, it's a good idea because I actually have an accountability buddy and I don't think that we've been working together is powerfully as we could, so any tips you have on how to work with an accountability? But, you know, like really get the most out of your time together we'll talk about that in more detail tomorrow on media crawling your creative cohorts but specifically for you right now I'd recommend setting up like you know every friday end of day or whatever works for you I'm gonna send you a draft okay? Or you might even do like by word count like I'm gonna send you a thousand words I love that that that's a good anchor okay, so see how I made it more specific like the thirty minutes a day that's specific this kind of ongoing but if you've got kind of the his book ends like ok, I have to deliver something in its you know, a number certain amount of words whatever that's gonna help you that works better because it's easy to just like let that it's fine it's dissolve into something else exactly ok, thank you you're very welcome cool and we'll take one more one of them is that all right online? Yeah yeah ok so the light matters asks do you have any tips for running this exercise by oneself? I don't really have anyone that I can ask thought provoking questions that can be so revealing and uncover so much more detail like I may be put on top of that who are how can you brainstorm about who would be the right person to do sometimes that's where you know having a coach can be helpful, finding a mastermind group. And if you're struggling to find that there are a ton of people here in this chat room, you can maybe connect with and have a conference call or virtual. You know, you don't need to be face to face like this to participate, so I would actually tap into the people who have gone through this process already, right, and do that. Obviously, there's the facilitators. If you want to work with some local, knows this and maybe check out the facilitators and that you are doing it by yourself, you are ok, too. Totally, yeah, I think that's the place to start, teo. I mean, nathan and I were kind of doing this here, but these guys in studio were just scribbling away on their clipboards by themselves and had these big, ah ha! So and demonstrated it worked way. Keep the confidence there.