Pre-Selling and Up-Selling
Let's go and I will need a clicker, but I'm going to start with the eighty twenty percent rule. I don't even think this is just finance. This is around a few public google on the internet, thank you's across lots of different things on dh what this is trying to show you is that you may have one hundred customers, twenty percent of those your money is going to come from. Why do I do a thank you card? Why do remind the card? Why am I following up to those same clients and really niche those same clients, depending more industry? You're in? Um, you want to try and get client for life, so it may start the wedding day that client has kids that kids have kids and everything else, or depending what, you want a niche from there, then I wanted to talk about some cells before we get into pricing, presales post tells how do we do it? The thing with photography let's do fotos first, so when a kind comes in for consultation, we didn't see the end part, we will show them albums. I'm going to put a q...
uestion already, tio the online audience how many pages in your albums for your sample albums, when I know roughly, was the average general across the internet that they would show a sample? How many pages on my go teo, getting you guys are not necessarily wedding photographers, but you're going to start doing weddings what are you going to get a sample album? It's hard to talk if you're not doing the shit I mean fifty images, I guess. Okay, cool. Oh, even pages have we got a taste of humanistic at the response from the interview and I'm gonna just go from here and say sell up front pre selling I think anyone really talks about pre selling on again it's all to do you'll see how all this other stuff we talked about links in that kind of sales, marketing customer service so they'll come in, they'll get the biggest album first and then work their way down. I know people that generally start off within a five a full, bigger and bigger think about tv screen. This is a guy thing, though maybe and then I'm a techie and you want the big brother the small tv screen doesn't look big enough in your war you need the bigger one and again, like women put down a bag of jimmy choos or we have this really cheap or ankle prime mark home what are you gonna one and when someone gives you something there, so I'm going to give a big wedding album the parents books, the little books, it comes in a hole so this is like this is my empire fischer's work down I actually I leave one album right to the end average pages have we had any responses and you're the little quiet but they're not they're popping in soon okay I would be embarrassed to tweet this as well because people are thinking am I wrong my nerve I it's what I want to say when I'm I'm asking the audience for questions a bit like when dana I wouldn't say have the balls to say well why am I not in front of a camera? There were so many people who were too scared to tweet that that is people like you that are great that will stand up and say it and not be embarrassed and I would say the reason why I got so far as I have it because it wasn't embarrassed to put my hand of a go I don't understand I don't understand till may audio for me I had no clue don't understand explain that again explained it again so never kind of sit the back of the classroom even if you're an introvert ask find out the answer then you know the answer and there isn't a right or wrong answer so what I'm going to tell you it's just what I do I don't have any albums that thirty pages none and you know what's on my prices thirty pages but I don't call my client so what I do is say because this album this album on the client's your foot we get I don't if you you must get this in the u s a bride wolf fur how many pages is this one? How many pages is that one not a name that's about eighty six that might be about seventy five, seventy six there's about sixty so they're all from sixty, seventy upwards already in her head she knows she wants this she knows the starting price is our thirty pages already is like dropping the seed like she combined thirty pages we can make it for she knows she's gonna want something more did we get you better so visual so sambo says fifty images now but the next one is going to be around one hundred and fifty, one hundred to one hundred fifty we've got I love the fact that the internet was choir because I guess why it doesn't no don't be embarrassed and you're the other thing this industry is amazing when I was in banking everyone's trying to backstop you no one is being friendly when I first got into photography and amazing photographer tried to help me I disregarded the whole thing I was with him why would you help me? Why would you tell me something for free? And I was real cynical as a banker the thing I love about this industry is we're so honest but when it comes to this stuff at our prices and everything goes even between our group of people that I know about time, no one really kind of swaps prices, we'll talk about it. But if we all do, we all learned, and we'll all feel better about it won't be like, hey, do you know what I do this? This could help you, so I really thank you audience for that person that had to put that on and on, and we've got you. We've got hz photography, fifty page sample with six wedding five to seven pages per wedding. We have j free photography, forty to sixty pages. We have typical thirty pages, thirty five pages, twenty spreads really in that they're all seem really have a name. I would guess them because everyone's quite low around, I'm getting it in the uk, the album sample packs that we buy our thirty pages and they do you a discount for that, and then as photographers, when you're starting, we're thinking about how I don't have an extra like sixty pages. I need several some problems about what your client sees is what your client gets. I have only ever sold one frame, why is that because the only frame on the wall and they see it. They wantto I give them I show them the whole thing and there's all these other firms, they have they just by what they have looked untouched that when you say pages okay side or like a double page thirty double page now sorry, fifteen spreads. Okay could see I'm yeah, I'm a double play again and that's good. The album companies will go spread some pages. I wasn't gonna talk about this, but I was mention this. I don't sell images per page because again I don't on there's a catch twenty two to this eye for me pay per page for my album clients and again it made me different everyone's doing for image so that poor kind that put one big image on really loved it. But then they were paying for like ten images on the other side ten times the price of this side. This is another cell thing I used to say to my clients, this piece of paper, the print costs the same as this you're paying us x for the design of this we wanted to let the best it could look out let's go price per page beside however, all of my sample albums have won in it to images maximum there will be a speech page double pay spread with about ten shots we have very few photos in there because I know the other thing I was I should have taken a photo of my first wedding album design I had see pure blue tones black and whites everything mixing together it was like my flyer green and brown andi clattered everything in there because I was worried the clients wouldn't pay me more so in thirty pages I had about one hundred twenty images could you imagine what that would that album looked like and then what happened? Every kind of come in to see me wanted it just like that wanted it designed like that and then when I've been bored in a re toucher and someone who was a graphic designer that taught me how don't make color and black and white on the same page going blocks of threes so learning the graphic design stowed he was like, you can't shovel these images in here and so the kinds they thought it was great that they could pick the images they want and they didn't feel there was paying like three hundred pound for that side on twenty five quid for this side but people do it the other way around it that's just my talking about why I do that um thank you so still talking about selling up front so they know thirty pages is exquisite and they're looking at nothing there that's thirty pages she will ask me can I then not fit my wedding in a thirty page album and I will say to no it's absolutely fine but maybe we will have ten images or twelve images in there but you probably would want more this is okay so then we'll talk about how much does it cost then it is seventy five pound per side left right and you can order them before you can order them afterwards. There is no pressure however, if you're looking at these albums and you already know that you want them, you will get them for fifty pound beside if you buy them up front all you pay seventy five afterwards and then for me I can block order their album with doxy color and say I have a fifty page I have a seventy page album coming how much does the page cost? May three pounds five pounds yes, but it is not just the point of what they cost if you pay a designer if you're going to sit there for hours designing if you're going to retouch the images, we don't retouch anything to what goes in the album she's just really oh shocked really I said a bullet proof book with may I don't know but when you first start out my photography was really bad so I had to like manipulate or these photos so much but then you get more better exposure then I get goes straight through their action what we do is it just the exposure of this slightly our proof book goes off and then what we explain is if you want us to do something really cool and mike blemishes and seamen and make you look beautiful, pop skies more the beauty then should be charged for that that's a wholenother like there are some that you have some amazing re touches that come on here that I think should be called digital artists because whatever photo you give them, they could do, they can put pocket said light that wasn't even there. Is that all for free? No and do not go I go and I met him, I met him a trade show, I was sitting there with my re toucher saying he's taken us four to seven days for every wedding to retouch and I'm paying ashley these face, whatever I do, is there an easier way? And he was like, yeah, why you re touching these faces where you re touching every single worm and the clients are never buying them all. I'm working for free for nothing because no one ever gets seem it I'm having we have just a small lightbulb moment, but I also remember that I was just like, no, I can't show them the raw that fire was no, no but the more when you see if you were navy out there and you're starting case a little bit more difficult but when she get to read the lights will be attaining your stuff is pretty great off camera it doesn't matter as long as it is great generally to level all the well stuff that you going to do make sure your time is money and that's what we'll only stop moving onto this whole time money and what is your minute of your life worth to spend hours on retouching used to do this I just get they're gonna buy this in it there's going to be a frame and spent four hours on that and it imply it and then you know from I have from portrait shoots that they won't let photographers but came in some studios I no sell their work because the clients don't want the well perfect shots they want the shots that I like my kids are so cute and that's my kid and a sounds personal go you have that that's great where's the photographer would go no you kind of the one is not exposed well I'm not on the third shot is a great catch lights are off yeah this is when your client has you're stealing the moment from your client let them buy from you I think half the time its creators we stopped we put them off buying the images they love as I'm halfthe um it doesn't matter that it won't win an award okay um mr back so this is all in the meeting before they made me they know the fee and they know exactly every single album collection and I will talk about my prices up until even last year I got them actually I'll grab them at some point you could see them but I had a boutique collection eh some other name collection and then the queen's breeze and everything kills and that was like four or five different versions different shapes I had inches for one and centimeters for another and then it was just it was confusing for may so make your price is simple and talk about price and we'll talk about that but so they've looked at this they know that they want a sixty page album he's been next thing they're working I can see it there working out in my head how much okay this is what this is going to cost on dh then I only so they only getting my first collection is my photography time for the day which is eight hours and I'm never a wedding for a hours and nobody doing eighteen hours so everything after that is paid hourly especially is the difference when you build a team I can ask me to go work for free I can't ask a stranger with a steady coming to do another ten hours for free you know and this is what's good when you start thinking you still have to pay someone else and they do it do it for free you soon learn that you need to charge for these things so you hours yeah priest book the difference when you're doing a priest book and not doing a proof book is I did approve book for eight hundred quid on an album on all the images on disk that was too much of a cost. So now I just do the proof book because I'm on the high end they expect er and it's the cells tour against if they're wondering whether me or someone else it doesn't have it they get on my gallery of images I don't ask my facebook facebook I give the facebook down those I don't grantham I asked him to trust me and tagged me and my photos are you probably guessed by now me and my kind there they trust me they wouldn't want to really I go they would want to feel like the economy that they are glad to go by for talk of a baba they don't want the copyright through on a facebook he wants to see that and I do see a picture profiles from there on dh then basically they get no album and then they choose their albums so I'm very much of an al a car I don't have packages were talking at you I'm not going to go there yet let's do that after us but the up sell is post wedding we've got sixty page album that paid for it they're gonna pay me for a disc five hundred pounds they get two hundred images for free including my base package so all they get really is my time online gallery on two hundred choice of two hundred images in a proof book on what I was saying I always get the question is can we have all the images yes you can have all the images but really you know print more than two hundred hour no no not really and I say if I do a do a great job you're wanted by the desk by the dis later you might not even want the desk because in all honesty we're not printing kind of tomb and there was I want to put my stuff you're going to buy an album anyway so there's sixty hundred images in the album how what are you gonna do with these photos and for me it's almost like I dearly don't want them to buy the disc because they're my online sales go up huge because then it's like my two hundred images mum dead can't cousin do you know what by your own because I need these ones that and let them buy them tio duties do you have your own online? The image fall just shove it on there and this all happens you get paid every month of papal stuff that you said that you wake up and go down the governing ice order but let me finish the so they come back after the wedding we go through these images I'm goingto answer jim's question here of it wass I shouldn't release seven hundred two thousand images but then I'm doing big weddings and then it's a lot ma'am and this is when I was told by ninety percent of people not to do that to show three hundred, five hundred to know what I need them to like too many because we now upgrade the album even more okay and what they do is they come in she's got her sixty she just got her sixty we're picking out the images that haven't gone off sides have I? I was like, you know was fine what downscale it by for mei I'm happy I've made my upset I try and cover the cost of the album with the pre cells of the pages I'm happy anything else is a bonus so this point I am trying to talk them out of it and saying honey, every page cumbia sequence I shot five similar images here which is need one okay, so they and I idea when the albums that great and then I was like no no but I have to have okay so that's not going to cost the seventy five pounds and seventy five pounds of that do you know what I'll do it for fifty okay the promise that I gave you earlier so my better idea for fifty they are raising funds at this point and they're like you are so kind you've really held me all my gosh we have just saved twenty five pound per page whatever I'm going to have another ten pages thank you but I also feel like you and here yeah it is not this is why I kind of putting my soul into something I am I don't look like this on our wedding day when you start seeing more behind the scenes on my hair is her back I'm sweating backside off and I'm working I don't stop the I was going to read you something from very tin dome they knighted don't even take a drink of the day I don't sit down my team sit down I am constantly checking stuff I'm prepping stuff I don't stop I'm not here to have a holiday I'm there to make the best thing happened for my clients I was so dresses up what she's saying having teo hooked us up before I sat down and tall I am sewing up where they're having the mill I am there as a best friend too now I wanted to have the breast day because then then I will get the reactions I don't want tears I want is a joy or I won't be I'm here for you when the times get I'm probably quite good under pressure if you realize so far that I would try and keep my kinds calm because otherwise here when she turned your no I can see the truth I need to see happiness joy I need to see the fairy tell the boy dreams about but reality is she is sick of the wedding before the wedding day and can't wait for honey win and I try and slow her down to enjoy it so that whole dupri cells do not do this do not show thirty page album than pre design an album with a hundred side get them to come in and say that's ten grand no one is happy and call yourself all inclusive package how is that fair? Yeah just all I'm doing is managing them expectations if you have any questions but I need to move on from taking too long yeah um that's photography you can see now for film for may I struggled but now for film we'll do an ipad and iphone any kind of up close that we do on we just click them from their dvd billy ray's we will also do like the trade off for free and just for marketing that's like doing the same die slow chou but even better because you'd given it away for free what's in it for me was my within do you have something called b and I hear business networking grow is international didn't work for may because it wasn't my kind but it's the same thing they teach you principal wasn't to know was there just basic prince would do good to others and they'll do you good to you if you come at someone I mean something you offered me a glass of water. Okay, that meant more to me. I already I'm in I'm in I want to hear what you're saying. I'm there are for me, it's the smallest things that today I can't let's move on from my amazing look see color again. I've asked them to change albums teo design a signing board years and years ago before anyone actually, you guys, I got the idea from the u s andi, we brought it to the uk. These guys made it happen for mei mei suppliers helped me move with my technology and where my vision goes, they make it happen for may the same as the audio guys and the crew making it happen from there. So anybody that is wanting a new kind of theirs, they got forty percent off on all their cd cases and stuff that we use forty percent off for those two, but unfortunately it's only in the uk in europe okay way already started this whole pricing I'm gonna put on a white board if we have questions while I'm pulling a whiteboard yep we sure dio when you're delivering individual photographs to your client's file size are you using and this was asked by wedding now okay we use gagarin's action and it re size is everything I don't even know why downside oh no I do downsize the world versions to go on the web the image fall again I'm going to keep plugging but it works for may they in their system resize it down so I can put the originals on image for for one and I can have straight through processing to my lab I don't even need to get involved in there the orders to my clients so I can send my branding to look see color and they will print it they proof it they put it in my bryant it folders and everything else and send that post of the kind if I was looking someone in the sights must say that for you you guys yeah I'm gonna do and can you reiterate from four years mean which album company you used to make your big books loxley color and queensberry I have an album that cost me three thousand pounds my queens we album is the most have a look at the muse's and also the duo's they are the women out there we're gonna get this hermes handbag or gucci and prada handbag we've just gone from a very expensive anyway too ridiculous I suggest every single one out there have something that you wouldn't pay for it's too expensive for you have something I'm reaching a ball and then when you do get there then you need to find something else you've gotta have that you don't want a quiet walk him in especially in the high end market thinking I can help ben that I can have anything I want six thousand eight thousand pounds for the album you call for that I think I said that yesterday I have the I guess you shake up someone state that makes sense from there they don't have to buy air put put something on your your prices you're not forcing anyone to buy anything have it there don't you think I'm not with it I'm not worth it you know you don't believe me I have your same fears I really do but I will tell you how I conquered them him the last segment idea was like uh uh when I rebranded I stood on that that the national wedding show I bought my mom with a mom if you're still watching she's my book and was going what have I done? Whatever done what my work is crap I don't know what I'm doing on my course and now I'm charging double what I would do people walking past but the wrong people were walking past. And the right person come over to this album, stroked it when a hit. May. How much is this guy? This is my client. Like the handbag. Like I want it. I want it. And I know it's a little funny, but I wanted, you know, women like we will somehow justify it. We don't need a hamburg. We don't need another parachute is really any other questions. And I am going to rock into the whole pricing. Okay? Through this, I'm gonna challenge you to define your value. No mind. So before I do this, I'm challenging you all. You define your value, okay? You become for whatever we do here is not for may it's, not for you, for you, you individually would decide. And what I'm gonna do is I'm going to put question marks on what I call that get out of bed feed you define your value and then by the end of today, when we hit the next part, think about the next part on what you give up to refine your value.