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Business Example Hot Seat

Lesson 77 from: How to Start a Photography Business

Pye Jirsa

Business Example Hot Seat

Lesson 77 from: How to Start a Photography Business

Pye Jirsa

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Lesson Info

77. Business Example Hot Seat

Next on the hot seat, sit in on a business sales session. Build a list of dos and don'ts with a sales simulation focused on commercial photography.
Summary (Generated from Transcript)

The lesson is about how to start a photography business and includes a role-play scenario where the instructor, Pye Jirsa, guides the student in a mock sales conversation for a photography project. The student is opening a restaurant and wants images for their website to showcase their unique dessert called Frushi. They discuss the style and look of the images, the vision for the restaurant, and the pricing. The instructor emphasizes the importance of building rapport, actively listening to the client's needs, restating and understanding their vision, and effectively communicating the value of the service. The lesson concludes with a discussion on the learnability of sales skills and the importance of being a relatable and understanding photographer.


  1. What is the role-play scenario in the lesson about?

    The role-play scenario is about a student opening a restaurant and seeking photography services for their unique dessert.

  2. What is the student's product and what challenges does it present?

    The student's product is a dessert called Frushi, which is fruit sushi. The challenge is to showcase the dessert in a way that separates it from traditional sushi and conveys its healthy and delicious qualities.

  3. How does the instructor suggest approaching the photography project?

    The instructor suggests capturing images of the student preparing the Frushi, using natural light in a bright and clean environment that reflects the healthy nature of the dessert.

  4. What pricing question does the student ask and how does the instructor respond?

    The student asks how much the photography services would cost. The instructor acknowledges that he is new to photography and suggests a price of $1500 for the specific project discussed.

  5. Can someone who is not naturally skilled in sales learn these skills?

    Yes, the instructor believes that anyone can learn sales skills, even if they don't consider themselves to be outgoing or charismatic. He emphasizes the importance of understanding what sales really is, which is discovering what the client wants and helping them understand that you can provide it.


Class Trailer

Class Introduction


Common Myths & Unknown Truths


The Road Ahead


Find Your Passion


The Lin & Jirsa Journey


Part-time, Full-time, Employed, Partners?


Stop Wasting Time & Money


Your 12 Week Roadmap


Great Plans Still Fail


Strategy Vs. Planning


Mind Mapping


Select a Focus


Competitor Research


S.W.O.T. Analysis


Strategy & Long Term Goals


Values, Vision & Mission


Effectively Managing Your Time


Artistic Development


Create Your Plan


What's Your Product


Luxury vs Consumer Products & Experiences


Quick Break for Econ 101


Your Target Market & Brand Message


What's in a Name


Your Client 'Why'


Crafting the Why Experience


Document the Client Experience


Business Administration Basics


Book Keeping Management


Create the Logo & Branding


Portfolio Design


Design Your Services & Packages


Pricing Fears & Myths


Three Pricing Methods


Package Pricing Psychology & Design


Psychology of Numbers


Pricing Q&A


Grass Roots Marketing


The Empty Party


Friends & Family Test Shoots


Join Groups


Second Shooting Etiquette


The Listing & Classified Hustle


Make Instagram Simple


Your Automated Pinterest Plan


Facebook Because You Must


Giveaway & Styled Shoots


Content Marketing & SEO


The Monster: SEO


Selecting Your Keywords


Testing Your Keywords


Grouping Main & Niche Goals


Your Content Road Map


Content Marketing Q&A


Inspiration to Keep Working


How to Craft Your Content


Internal Linking Basics


Back Link Building Basics


Link Value Factos


Measuring Link Value


Link Building Strategy & Plan


Link Building Plan: Vendors & Guest Writing


Link Building Plan: Features, Directories, Comments


Link Building: Shortcuts & One Simple Tool


What is Sales? Show Me!


Your First Massive Failure


The Sales Process


Your Second Massive Failure


Understand Buyer Psychology


Step 0: Building Rapport & Trust


Step 1: Identify Need or Want


Cognitive Dissonance


Steps 2 & 3: Value Proposition & The Solution


Step 4 : Close, Make the Ask


Step 5: Follow Up & Resolve Concerns


Family Photography Hot Seat


Business Example Hot Seat


Boudoir Photography Hot Seat


The Best Sales Person


Your Mindset, Vibrations & Frequency


Always Positive, Always Affirming


The Second Money & Dual Process


Chumming the Price Waters


Creating Want or Scarcity


Timeless Advice on Being Likable


Selling Over The Phone


Forbidden Words in Sales


Lesson Info

Business Example Hot Seat

Alright. Whatcha sellin me brotha? Let's set the environment. Sure. Coffee shop. Coffee shop. Okay. Okay. What product am I lookin for? So are you tellin me? Or am I gonna suggest? You're set up. I want you set something you're comfortable with. Yeah so I'm still, I'm pretty new into the photography world. So I'm still figurin on my focus, but I'm interested in kinda artistic shots, lifestyle, also portraits. Just kind of also the street photography. Kind of unusual things or people happening. Okay. Yeah so. Let's pick something that I might like be hiring you for, so what might that be? Let's say you are, you have a creative shop or business in town and you need a you need a picture of you for your business to launch or for a business you are planning on launching. Okay so I need a picture... You need web presence. Let's say I need, okay, so I need images for my company. I'm opening a restaurant. Sure. And I need images for my restaurant, okay for my we...

bsite. Of you or your staff. Great, so I want basically like that commercial kind of work on my site. Okay. Cool. We're meeting in a coffee shop, cool. First time. This is awkward. (Audience laughs) I'm just kidding brother. Alright. Alright. K. We just sat down, let's do this. I'm...(stumbles on words). Okay. I'm gonna let you handle it. Well nice to meet you, Pye. I appreciate you reaching out. Yeah. I'm excited to, you know I saw your email and your response. Glad to meet you in person and love to kinda hear about the restaurant that you're opening, maybe the inspiration behind it, a little bit about yourself so I can kind of get in mind what our shoot should look like and what I would need to do to prepare and be ready. Cool, yeah. Nobody really asks about the inspiration behind the restaurant. I guess my whole thought was, shoot, I need to think about this restaurant sometime. (Audience laughs) Sushi. Okay Make sushi. Oh yeah, so yeah. Perfect. So I got this frushi. (Audience laughs) Yes. I'm just kidding. Okay so, well Lee I have this product. It's like a boutique dessert and it's a little bit difficult to describe. It's, we call it Frushi and it's basically fruit sushi, but it's not really, people think sushi. This is literally the problem I have to overcome. I need your images to kind of handle this. Oh. But, it's so delicious. It's dessert that looks like sushi. It's rice, rolled up like sushi with fruit in... This is what that company failed by the way. This... (Audience laughs) This is why it failed. This is... And it's rolled up and it's cut like sushi. Stop laughing Amazing. Amazing. Don't laugh at me. I know, I'm... But then it's dipped in these fruit sauces and it tastes amazing. We actually have a food truck that goes around with it and it's very popular, so this is our first retail location and it's just something that we're really proud of. We kind of want to expand this into multiple chains eventually, but right now, yeah I just wanna have a physical location that people can come and get this dessert. This is amazing and wonderful. I couldn't think of a more fun restaurant product to collaborate with. The first thing that popped into my mind is a picture of you We don't know the location yet, but if you're gonna be in Seattle, I'm thinking you have a salmon in one hand and an ice cream cone, or some fruit in the other. We've got you in the market kind of roaming around. I've got a lot of good ideas. Yeah, that shit's terrible. (Guest and audience laugh) I don't wanna hold a salmon and, with, I literally said that we're trying to get away from that. (Audience laughs) Okay I... What I'm trying to go for is, with this kind of product I want it to feel like it's a very healthy alternative dessert. Okay, so I want the images to kind of have this bright, clean healthy look to them. So that it kinda conveys that. And its, they're very sweet. There's no fish, there's no nothing, which is I wanna take every bit of sushi connotation out of these shots. I want it to just be a dessert. Very good idea. I think I'm (laughs) missing part I'm a very forgiving person after that. (Audience laughs) If you haven't left the restaurant already, then I'm glad you're still here. Yeah, I mean I think this is a, you know, fascinating concept for... And it sounds tasty, but it sounds like the barriers to entry are pretty high for this concept (laughs) because... This is depressing. As you explained... (laughs) Why would you tell me that? (Audience laughs) I think you just, well, I'm being, I think I'm being, a very honest reaction. You took me by surprise. (Audience laughs) With this concept. So I think I'm still getting my, wrapping my head around (laughs) the fruit sushi. Your fruit sushi idea. Listen. (Audience laughs) I gave you words. I gave you your words. I want it to look clean, healthy, bright. Okay, yeah. I want you to hear that... as your photographer I love that. I'm thinking of another brand like, kinda Pinkberry. Yes, yes, Pinkberry! Yeah. That's what I'm looking at. Yes, they're images are all very clean and very bright. I know exactly what you're going for. I would love to get shots, and what we'll do is we'll use kind of a natural light effect. It doesn't really matter, but I wanna get you making and cutting this Frushi in an environment that looks bright and very clean. Maybe you have like a beautiful window in your restaurant that you're opening. Yeah I do actually. Okay, so imagine if you're standing right by that (Audience laughs) You know, I'm just doing this for you. No No, I hear ya. Okay, can we... Yeah so, Okay. Yeah so I think, let's start... Let's back-track a little bit. We just heard about the... This back-track, back-track all the way. Take the salmon back. Alright, we just met each other, did the names, okay. You told me about the restaurant. So it sounds like you've got a location already set up. I think it would be amazing to have some pictures of you kind of going throughout the day preparing your food. You know, it would be nice to get there a little bit early before the shoot, kind of hear, you can show me some of the locations where the food's prepared, stored, delivered. And then also I can kind of get a sense for the, you know, the feel of the restaurant and employees and then, you know, I can schedule as much time as you need to kind of, to shadow you, to document you throughout the process and show the wondrous nature of making Frushi. Disingenuous, yup. (Audience laughs) The intre- there's a lot of words that I'm failing with. (Lee laughs) Okay, so Lee, how much do you think it'd cost? You know, that's a great question. (Audience laughs) You know, I'm...(stumbles on words) I'm not sure if I should give you my background as a photographer now, but I am new to the photography world. Oh, shite. So I'm willing, yeah, shouldn't have done that. (Audience laughs) I love those brother. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Have a seat my man. Knew I shouldn't have done that. Halldis, do you feel better? (Audience claps) You feeling better? (Audience claps) Alright. Fist bumps all around. Fist bumps to you guys. That is stressful, is it not? (Audience laughs) Yeah. Very stressful. Did you guys feel it? (Audience laughs) You guys felt it. Oh my goodness. So look, the process is the same, regardless of whether it's commercial, newborn, anything. You need to get at what I am and what I'm trying to do and your first series of questions was good. When you said the question of "Wow, you're starting up a restaurant. "What is your inspiration for that? "I did a little research and I saw that it's fruit sushi? "What is your inspiration for that?" And then... (Audience laughs) And then your shiz just like derailed. (Audience laughs) But that's okay. So we need to bring it back and I'm hoping that what's gonna happen is I want you guys to go back. You can recreate the stress of this simulation very simply at home by yourself, or with a spouse, or with a friend, or with a partner, doesn't matter. Take your phone out and press the record button. And you'll feel the exact same mental stress and duress that you were in in this situation right now, okay, and then you're gonna start the process again. Because, both of you I wanted you to hold me in step one, or step zero, right, building the rapport. Where's the rapport? Where's the trust? And then take me to that first step and understand what my needs are. Listen to the vocabulary that is coming out of their mouths and then take it in, and repeat it back. So that I know that you understand, and then take me to that place where you have established the vision and you started a little bit, okay? I liked the first one (laughs). I really want to separate the fruit sushi with the fish thing and you're like "Yes, yes I know exactly where you're going. "We're gonna have a salmon in one hand "and a plate of fish in the other." (Audience laughs) But you were going there, I think, maybe we had a disconnect on something there. (Audience laughs) But, we go back to that place of once we have this vision, you need to start helpin me to understand that you understand it, okay? This being a good listener. An I'm sorry, but girls you are gonna be way above us guys in this area to start with, but us guys can get pretty good at this, once we just kind of calm ourselves a little bit and start just listening, not thinking. I know in that situation Lee, Halldis, you guys are thinking about the next thing you wanna say. I can tell, I can see it on your eyes. You're not actually listening to me when I'm talking, you're looking out. It's very visually apparent to the person that is discussing things. I can tell when you're 100% engaged, versus when you're thinking, "Oh I've got a question to ask. I need to..." But then the problem with that is that you just lost everything that I said while you were thinking of the next thing to say. Yeah? So then get to my needs. Figure those things out. Mmk. At that point you restate, you re-evaluate, you paint a picture. That picture better well be what that person wants in their minds. So that's where you need to make sure that the picture you paint is what they want. (Audience laughs) K? And then at that point you would say "Is that what you're looking for?" And "I would love to create that for you. "I am the person to create that for you." And you re-state where it's gonna go, because again, my purpose was my website, right? Are these the images that you would put up on your website? It's identical. The wording is identical. The way that you get them back to that place of cognitive dissonance is identical. And I would say "Yes Lee, those are "the exact photographs that I want on my website. "Great, let's do that. "Let's set up the shoot." And I go, "Well what's the price?" And you say "Well, for what you're looking for "and what you want, $1500." Stop talking. The background thing (laughs). "Maybe I shouldn't tell you this" (Audience laughs) This is the place to make those mistakes. Okay? On your recording is the place to make those mistakes. I was trying to point to a phone that doesn't actually exist right now. But, take your phone out and make those mistakes, because you can do it, and you will make the mistake, and you can listen back to it, and do it over and over. Do you think this is something that I require all of our sales people to do in the studio? Yes. And when they don't, I have literally walked into peoples' offices and said "If I do not hear "your next five sales calls recorded, "there's gonna be problems." Because I've had people push back and for some reason not record. Why? And I knew why. Because when I listen back to them, they weren't following the steps. They weren't following the process. We need to make sure we ourselves are following the steps going through. Now at this point what questions do we have? So we have now established our value. We've shown that value, we've presented. We've made our ask. If I have an objection then I'll say something. And then you resolve it. A question did come in just now from Debbie who says "Do you believe that everyone can learn these skills? "Maybe a photographer who does not have "the best listening or relational skills "could consider hiring someone to partner "with them for that process or..." Absolutely. "Does it have to come from you?" So, no this comes back to like, this is a problem of revenue, right? Yes, you can hire somebody to do it, but if you're early on in your business you might not have the revenue to hire somebody. Unless let's say you have a family member or a partner or a husband, wife, anything that they want to pair up with you and maybe that person's a little bit more social and more forward and maybe more prepared. But here's the thing, is like, I've met many, many, many photographers. I've met many sales people, many studio managers, who have had no experience whatsoever selling. Okay? The studio managers that we recruit, they're not sales people. Do you know who they are? They're Hallises, they're Angelas, they're Julies, they're Shells, they're Erins, they're Lees. They're people that you can relate to. The entry level to get into our studio as a studio manager, as a sales person is, you need to be a good person. You need to be normal, you need to be able to relate, but you don't need to be a good salesperson. We teach that. That's easy to teach. And that's why I feel like when you start going, like, go back through the course. Go back through the beginning of the course, when we break down what sales actually is, because when you... I feel like people that have that kind of mentality of, and I know it, I know it. When you have this thought of "I can't do that. "I can't do what it is that he's doing." Or "I can't do that step." It's because you're still brainwashed into thinking that sales was the catch a Popsicle and the white-gloved lady. And sales isn't the catch a Popsicle and the white-gloved lady. It's not selling somebody, it's not manipulation. I'm not manipulating you into something you don't want. Sales is discovering what you want, and telling you and helping you to understand that I can create that for you. That's where you don't have to be outgoing, charismatic, any of those things to be a good salesperson. You have to be relatable and simply understand what sales is. So I feel like the simple answer to that is yes you can partner with somebody. Yes, you can find somebody to do that, but you're shooting yourselves in the foot as a photographer, because I don't think you can be a good photographer without being able to do that. Does that make sense? It's hard to be a good photographer without being able to relate and understand the person that you are photographing, or the thing that you are doing. Unless you simply shoot products. If you're a product photographer, but at that point, you still need to relate to the person that's hiring you to shoot those products. You have to relate to somebody.

Class Materials

Bonus Materials with Purchase

How to Launch a Photography Business Workbook
Experience Pricing Example

Ratings and Reviews

Armstrong Su

This class and materials are to the point and eye-opening on the business side of photography. Pye Jirsa is an amazing and fun teacher as well! Most photographers need more business classes offered to bring us who love to create art back to reality for a more successful business that makes a living on it's own. This course will definately get you started in the right direction and so cheap too! Great investment! armstrong outdoor tv case outdoortvcase Pye Jirsa is one of the best instructors that I have the pleasure to learn from. He and his team have given me so much more than they'll ever realize. Knowledge, wisdom, training, friendship, mentoring, inspiration, joy... I cannot thank Pye enough for changing my life for the better. I owe them more than they'll ever realize. Thank you, Pye Jirsa!!!

Angela Sanchez

This class has been an eye opener for me; a point of change in my vision as photographer. Pye is and AMAZING, INSPIRING, GENEROUS instructor, with an, authentic desire to help people and to share with them the best of his knowledge. I will not have enough words to say thanks to Pye Jirsa, as a teacher and as a human being, and thanks to Creative Live who allows us to benefit from the experience of such a knowledgeable, educated, well-versed photographer and instructor. 1000% recommended!

Yenith LianTy

Been following this guy forever. Pye Jirsa may be well known in the wedding & portrait photography world and if there is something that this guy knows it is how to create a business, a sustainable one. The workbook he provided is comprehensive, and I honestly wish I had this when I first started out as a photographer! I love that he talks about his failures, keeping it real and honest for anyone starting out. He is definitely one of the best instructors around, super humble, down to earth and with a sense of humor to boot. The course is worth it! THE WORKBOOK is AMAZING! SUPER DETAILED!

Student Work